Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?

[+and-then]

3 hours ago, Stiff said:

"Apparently the colonel was released from hospital to an IKEA flatpack warehouse, ready for reassembly."

And also ROFL =  "Russian On Floor Laminated"

Update:

https://news.yahoo.com/russian-soldier-deliberately-runs-over-171227636.html

A Western official said the brigade commander had been "killed by his own troops, we believe as a consequence of the scale of losses that had been taken by his brigade".

Looks like he died.  Hell of a way to die.

 

[DarkHunter]

1 hour ago, and then said:

Update:

https://news.yahoo.com/russian-soldier-deliberately-runs-over-171227636.html

A Western official said the brigade commander had been "killed by his own troops, we believe as a consequence of the scale of losses that had been taken by his brigade".

Looks like he died.  Hell of a way to die.

 

This might be the same guy mentioned earlier in this thread who had his legs ran over by a tank.  Same unit, same location, same officer rank, same reason for being attacked by his own troops, but slightly different spelling of the name which could be from translating between the Latin alphabet and the Cyrillic alphabet.  In the first story the guy only had his legs ran over but with subpar medical treatment that could easily turn into a fatal injury.

Edited March 25, 2022 by DarkHunter

[+razman]

2 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

It looks like Putin is having an enforced rethink.

 Moscow signalled on Friday it was scaling back its ambitions in Ukraine to focus on territory claimed by Russian-backed separatists

 "In an announcement that appeared to indicate that Moscow may be switching to more limited goals, the Russian Defence Ministry said the first phase of its operation was mostly complete, and it would now focus on "liberating" two eastern regions claimed by Russian-backed separatists."

 "Ukrainian counter-attacks, and Russian forces falling back on overextended supply lines, has allowed Ukraine to reoccupy towns and defensive positions up to 35 km east of Kyiv," the report said.

"In the first big sign that Western sanctions on Russia were impacting investment from China, sources said state-run Sinopec Group, Asia's biggest oil refiner, had suspended talks on a petrochemical investment and a venture to market Russian gas."

 

China probably has a reasonable idea what is going on in Ukraine and the petrochemical venture will be a sign of which way the wind is blowing. 

So far Putin has achieved little and now some of these claimed achievements appear to be temporary. 

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/first-signs-russia-is-scaling-back-military-aims-in-ukraine-as-chinese-petrochemical-giant-suspends-talks-on-new-gas-venture-41485465.html

Yea because they realized they stumbled into a world of shitstorm, they said they weakened the Ukrainian army , but how much have they really? How long would it take to rebuild it back better ? The people there are already highly p***ed because they killed their people and destroyed their infrastructure no doubt. If russia does scale back to the far east, what they done will not be forgotten. And Ukraine would be better prepared in the future.

Edited March 25, 2022 by razman

[Guest Br Cornelius]

11 hours ago, and then said:

It is going to be very interesting and instructive to watch the reactions from NATO and Russia in the wake of Putin's barbarism.  TMK, this is the first instance of a post-WWII nation actually using nukes as potential tactical weapon in their fight against anyone.  I guess some may say that Israel's doctrine is the same but Putin has done much more than simply refusing to admit to possession of nukes or to pledge "no first use" as Israel has done.

So... in this aftermath, will the west codify a response to such threats in the future or will they behave as if this never happened?  IMO, Putin's choice in this war has opened up a topic we've successfully ignored for 70+ years.  It's true that his doctrine on nukes changed back in 2000 or so but since then, this is the first time he publicly hinted at using them first, as a means of counterbalancing NATO's conventional advantage.  

I also wonder how long it will take NATO and the wider west to put this evil behind themselves for the sake of trade  .  Eventually, it must be done or Russia will have no incentive to remain peaceful at all.  However, if it's done too soon, it will seem to give him the all clear to use the technique again.  

Israel has the Samson doctrine which assures total global destruction if it looks like Israel ceases to be a nation. Israels position is exactly equivalent to Russias stated position.

 

Br Cornelius

[Electric Scooter]

1 hour ago, Br Cornelius said:

Israel has the Samson doctrine which assures total global destruction if it looks like Israel ceases to be a nation. Israels position is exactly equivalent to Russias stated position.

Br Cornelius

The Israelis were worried about having a doomsday gap, so built a doomsday weapon of their own?

 

[godnodog]

16 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Godnodog

I had wondered about that earlier and looked but found nothing, as far as I can tell the Ukrainians have hit supply points in the Ukraine but nothing past their border. Not sure but if they did make strikes on Russian soil I would think Putin would see that as an invasion and go all out as it would give him what he needs to tell his people.

I don't recall the details, but some russian airbase near the frontier was hit, in the first 2 weeks.

the other day was reading about some combat near a russian village, I assumed it was inside Russia.

Let me see if I can find links.

[godnodog]

16 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Godnodog

I had wondered about that earlier and looked but found nothing, as far as I can tell the Ukrainians have hit supply points in the Ukraine but nothing past their border. Not sure but if they did make strikes on Russian soil I would think Putin would see that as an invasion and go all out as it would give him what he needs to tell his people.

Russian airbase, this is just a link, I saw the new on tv not on this link

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.janes.com/amp/ukraine-reportedly-strikes-russian-airbase/ZnlJK3dHVU9mZ28xajRJVkc5dVI5VFp1cVMwPQ2

As for the second I can't find link either because I misunderstood (most likely) the new or it's buried under the search results.

 

[Helen of Annoy]

1 hour ago, godnodog said:

Russian airbase, this is just a link, I saw the new on tv not on this link

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.janes.com/amp/ukraine-reportedly-strikes-russian-airbase/ZnlJK3dHVU9mZ28xajRJVkc5dVI5VFp1cVMwPQ2

As for the second I can't find link either because I misunderstood (most likely) the new or it's buried under the search results.

 

It was never confirmed by Ukrainian authorities and it's most likely Russian disinfo (aimed at creating justification for their attack or aimed at creating excuses for their own sabotages/cretinism/incompetence).

Ukraine is not attacking any targets outside Ukraine. 

 

The hilarious part is not the usual Russian propaganda style, it's the fact that CNN took it seriously *facepalm* 

https://thehill.com/policy/international/russia/595815-ukrainian-forces-target-russian-airfield-near-border-report

A source in the law enforcement agencies near the airbase told local outlet Komsomolskaya Pravda it was a Ukrainian Tochka-U missile that hit the facility.

The attack on the airfield in Millerovo, Russia, was done by Ukrainian armed formations, according to CNN, which cited local outlet Rostov Gazeta.

 

I'll go puke some blood from irritation now  I wasn't even aware that on the second day of Russian invasion CNN was taking Komsomolskaya Pravda as an actual source of credible info. 

[Wepwawet]

Though things have moved on in terms of weapons and communications, the actual physical battlefield is the same, and so it may be of interest to look at what happened in WWII when fighting took place in the same region. It's a big subject and far too complicated to condense here, so I'll link to the main wiki page of the offensives in Ukraine in 1943, which is essentially just a list of links to the various sub battles by area, but here you can find a more detailed description, and with a map or two. Looking only at operations between Kiev and the sea, it's looking all a bit familiar to what is happening now, with the major exception that the Soviets did not re-take Crimea until the later stages. But cities, rivers and hills are still in the same places, the cities a bit bigger now, and both sides have the same issues of how to use the terrain now as they did then. I suspect that with the major exception of Crimea, the Russians have dusted off their WWII operational plans and have adapted them for today. Red Army Operations Summer to Autumn 1943

Part of the 1943 planning was for the Sovets to disrupt the German supply lines, which they did with some success. Over the last few days Ukrainian fuel supply locations have been hammered, and yesterday the last of their large depots, to the south of Kiev, was destroyed. I would think that the only fuel they have is not much more than they have in their fuel tanks and in forward fuel dumps, hence why there is still no sign of any Ukrainian counter-offensive, and the fact that in modern war you cannot engage in mobile armoured warfare with any hope of success if you do not control the skies, which they do not.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Wepwawet
typo

[DarkHunter]

48 minutes ago, Wepwawet said:

hence why there is still no sign of any Ukrainian counter-offensive,

There has been counter-offensives on multiple fronts. 

North west of Kyiv the Ukranian forces retook multiple towns and seem to have cut off an unknown amount of the Russian military in a few of the towns they have surrounded.

On the southern front the Ukranians have pushed the Russian military back from Mykolaiv and have taken back parts of Kherson Oblast and are advancing towards the city of Kherson.  

Around Kharkiv the Ukranian military has started pushing the Russian military back from the city and liberated a few towns.

I dont know where you are getting your information but a lot of places are talking about the just started Ukranian counter offensive.

[DarkHunter]

Ukranian minister of defense has apparantly issued a statement saying the city of Kherson may be liberated in as little as 24 hours.  There are a few unverified reports from Kherson claiming they are hearing explosions and that the explosions are close enough that they are rattling windows.  

[+and-then]

6 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

The Israelis were worried about having a doomsday gap, so built a doomsday weapon of their own?

Of course not.  The point I was making was that Israel's nuclear status was never used to threaten anyone with destruction, as a means of waging a war.  The one difference between Israel and the rest of the nuclear powers was that they refused to openly acknowledge that they even possessed nukes.  In fact, one could say their policy of ambiguity was the exact opposite of what Putin has done here.  The "Samson Option" was basically a Jewish description of the concept of M.A.D.  Putin's doctrine of striking hard and fast, then setting off a low-yield nuke (or more?) to force NATO to freeze the conflict in place and negotiate is a new and very destabilizing use of their arsenal.

[Wepwawet]

52 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

There has been counter-offensives on multiple fronts. 

North west of Kyiv the Ukranian forces retook multiple towns and seem to have cut off an unknown amount of the Russian military in a few of the towns they have surrounded.

On the southern front the Ukranians have pushed the Russian military back from Mykolaiv and have taken back parts of Kherson Oblast and are advancing towards the city of Kherson.  

Around Kharkiv the Ukranian military has started pushing the Russian military back from the city and liberated a few towns.

I dont know where you are getting your information but a lot of places are talking about the just started Ukranian counter offensive.

I get info from various sources, UK, Ukrainian, Russian and German mainly, and try to find a halfway point between the Russian and Ukrainian versions of events, for neither of them can, or should be believed, as they are the opossing combatants and have agendas, which is perfectly normal.

What I do not see is a Ukrainian counter-offensive anywhere, and by counter-offensive I mean a large scale operation against your enemy, for instance the Battle of the Bulge in 1944 was a counter-offensive. What I do see, and you have pointed this out, is localized counter-attacks, and the Ukrainians are mounting one at the town of Trostyanets in the Sumy region, though it seems that this is just fighting on the southern edge of the town. On the other hand, the Ukrainians have withdrawn through the town of Slavutych to the west of Chernigov, and there is video of Russian forces in the town being shouted at by the locals.

Any army should be able to launch localized counter-attacks of some type, even when they are in a desparate situation, such as the counter-attack by Wenck in 1945 to try to get to Berlin, but it of course failed utterly. It's the ability to strike out either in depth, or across a broad front, that matters, and this needs fuel and air cover, and the Ukrainians have no air cover, and are in a desparate situation as regards fuel, and not just with the attack on the depot south of Kiev yesterday, but at Lvov today, and all the previous strikes on fuel depots. Going back to the Battle of the Bulge, in the film of that name, while taking liberties with reality, and in a simplistic way, did well to convey the major issue the Germans had with fuel, with the final scene showing them walking back home as they had no fuel left, and no air cover.

I think that in the near future we will see the "bltizkrieg" that was expected on day one, but which never happened and led to cries of "Russia is loosing". Ist Guards Tank Army is to the Northwest of Kiev and has not taken part in the fighting yet, and I do not think they will be trying to enter Kiev any time soon, but where will the go?, where will the Russian forces at Mariupol go once the city falls, probably in a few more days, less small holdout groups that can be isolated. The stated aim by the Russians yesterday was to turn their full attention on the Donbass, which has been deliberately, and ludicrously misinterpreted by our media to mean that they are "retreating" to the Donbass, far from it. What exactly will transpire I don't know, nobody except the Russian command know, but I suspect something "fast and furious", we'll see, and it could be slow and methodical, we'll see soon enough I think. However, that would be the time for Ukraine to launch a real counter-offensive, but can they realistically do this with low fuel and no aircover, can they break out of their hedgehogs which they have remained stuck fast to for a month.

 

[DarkHunter]

15 minutes ago, Wepwawet said:

I get info from various sources, UK, Ukrainian, Russian and German mainly, and try to find a halfway point between the Russian and Ukrainian versions of events, for neither of them can, or should be believed, as they are the opossing combatants and have agendas, which is perfectly normal.

What I do not see is a Ukrainian counter-offensive anywhere, and by counter-offensive I mean a large scale operation against your enemy, for instance the Battle of the Bulge in 1944 was a counter-offensive. What I do see, and you have pointed this out, is localized counter-attacks, and the Ukrainians are mounting one at the town of Trostyanets in the Sumy region, though it seems that this is just fighting on the southern edge of the town. On the other hand, the Ukrainians have withdrawn through the town of Slavutych to the west of Chernigov, and there is video of Russian forces in the town being shouted at by the locals.

Any army should be able to launch localized counter-attacks of some type, even when they are in a desparate situation, such as the counter-attack by Wenck in 1945 to try to get to Berlin, but it of course failed utterly. It's the ability to strike out either in depth, or across a broad front, that matters, and this needs fuel and air cover, and the Ukrainians have no air cover, and are in a desparate situation as regards fuel, and not just with the attack on the depot south of Kiev yesterday, but at Lvov today, and all the previous strikes on fuel depots. Going back to the Battle of the Bulge, in the film of that name, while taking liberties with reality, and in a simplistic way, did well to convey the major issue the Germans had with fuel, with the final scene showing them walking back home as they had no fuel left, and no air cover.

I think that in the near future we will see the "bltizkrieg" that was expected on day one, but which never happened and led to cries of "Russia is loosing". Ist Guards Tank Army is to the Northwest of Kiev and has not taken part in the fighting yet, and I do not think they will be trying to enter Kiev any time soon, but where will the go?, where will the Russian forces at Mariupol go once the city falls, probably in a few more days, less small holdout groups that can be isolated. The stated aim by the Russians yesterday was to turn their full attention on the Donbass, which has been deliberately, and ludicrously misinterpreted by our media to mean that they are "retreating" to the Donbass, far from it. What exactly will transpire I don't know, nobody except the Russian command know, but I suspect something "fast and furious", we'll see, and it could be slow and methodical, we'll see soon enough I think. However, that would be the time for Ukraine to launch a real counter-offensive, but can they realistically do this with low fuel and no aircover, can they break out of their hedgehogs which they have remained stuck fast to for a month.

 

I just completely and utterly disagree with just about everything you are saying.

The Ukranians have went from the Russian military attacking the city of Mykolaiv to being on the outskirts of the city of Kherson in 48 hours, that is a decent size counter-offensive.  Ukraine overall is fighting a heavily defensive war and taking caution on large pitched battles to minimize their own casualties and it's working for them.  

You havent proved any proof that the Ukranian military is having any issues with fuel.  Locations have been bombed but there is zero indication that the Ukranian military is having severe logistic issues like the Russians are having.

Ultimately Russia went in with approximately 250,000 soldiers and have lost between 30,000 to 40,000 in about a month.  Ukraine is starting to push back the Russians, even if it's not on as large a scale as you would like.  In another month there is a good chance of Russia having lost most if not all of their gains.

Edited March 26, 2022 by DarkHunter

[Helen of Annoy]

47 minutes ago, and then said:

 Putin's doctrine of striking hard and fast, then setting off a low-yield nuke (or more?) to force NATO to freeze the conflict in place and negotiate is a new and very destabilizing use of their arsenal.

It's what their exercises looked like, hypothetical situation of any kind, ends up with USSR/Russia lobbing a nuke, NATO craps their pants and surrenders.

Only it doesn't work like that and (the still sane portion of) Russians know it doesn't. 

 

Have you seen the latest footage with Shoygu (Russian defence minister), meant to prove he's alive? Yeah, he's still alive and breathing heavily and everyone sitting at that table is visibly aware just how deep in crap they are. 

[Wepwawet]

46 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

I just completely and utterly disagree with just about everything you are saying.

The Ukranians have went from the Russian military attacking the city of Mykolaiv to being on the outskirts of the city of Kherson in 48 hours, that is a decent size counter-offensive.  Ukraine overall is fighting a heavily defensive war and taking caution on large pitched battles to minimize their own casualties and it's working for them.  

You havent proved any proof that the Ukranian military is having any issues with fuel.  Locations have been bombed but there is zero indication that the Ukranian military is having severe logistic issues like the Russians are having.

Ultimately Russia went in with approximately 250,000 soldiers and have lost between 30,000 to 40,000 in about a month.  Ukraine is starting to push back the Russians, even if it's not on as large a scale as you would like.  In another month there is a good chance of Russia having lost most if not all of their gains.

I didn't expect you to agree with me, not for one moment.

However, time will show the reality. If Kherson is not re-captured in the next 48 hours, or if there is no sign of a serious attempt to do so, that will indicate that they do not have the ability to mount such an offensive. Likewise if the Russians do launch a "blitzkrieg" type assault into the rear areas and rear of Ukrainain forces in the Donbass, and the Ukrainians cannot counter it using maneuver warfare, which they will need to do or just sit in their hedgehogs and run out of supplies while being pounded day after day, then that will show a reality. We just need to wait and see what happens.

When your fuel depots get hit again and again, when vital rail junctions get taken out, then you will have a problem with fuel and other supplies, it's a fact of war. I cannot possibly proove that they have issues with fuel, that will only become apparent if they cannot engage in maneuver warfare, or can only sustain mobile operations for a short time using what fuel they have in their fuel tanks, and in forward supplies. As yet they have not engaged in serious large scale manuever warfare, though apart from the drive to Kherson, neither have the Russians, so as I said, we have to wait and see. Btw, yesterday's Russian casualty figures of just over 1,300 dead for the entire operation so far, have been seen in military circles, including the UK, as while probably pitched too low, are otherwise not far off reality. 30,000 to 40,000 is seen as a fantasy figure straight from the pages of the Völkischer Beobachter or mouth of Goebbels

Edit: To put this high level of presumed casualties into perspective, this would amount to the Russians loosing about one entire battalion per day since the start of the operation. This is the level of casualties that the Red Army suffered on the same battleground in 1943, that I refered to in an earlier post. The fighting in 1943 was intense and continuous along the entire front in Ukraine, but the fighting so far in 2022 has been very limited. The Russian advances to the positions they now hold were fairly rapid and without a single major batle being fought, the ambush of some convoys is not a battle, it's a skirmish. Fighting toe to toe has been almost non existant along the front from Kiev to Kharkov. Fighting around Nikolaev has been very small scale and mostly artillery duels. Where there is fighting is along the Donbass front, yet despite the style of reporting, what liitle reporting there has been, it has in fact been conducted with comparitively small groups of forces, often only of company size. The fighting simply has not been intent enough to produce casualty figures the same as for WWII on a day to day basis, it exceeds Soviet loses in all the ten years they were in Afghanistan, and approachs the American figures for Vietnam. Is this really credible.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Wepwawet

[DarkHunter]

15 minutes ago, Wepwawet said:

I didn't expect you to agree with me, not for one moment.

However, time will show the reality. If Kherson is not re-captured in the next 48 hours, or if there is no sign of a serious attempt to do so, that will indicate that they do not have the ability to mount such an offensive. Likewise if the Russians do launch a "blitzkrieg" type assault into the rear areas and rear of Ukrainain forces in the Donbass, and the Ukrainians cannot counter it using maneuver warfare, which they will need to do or just sit in their hedgehogs and run out of supplies while being pounded day after day, then that will show a reality. We just need to wait and see what happens.

When your fuel depots get hit again and again, when vital rail junctions get taken out, then you will have a problem with fuel and other supplies, it's a fact of war. I cannot possibly proove that they have issues with fuel, that will only become apparent if they cannot engage in maneuver warfare, or can only sustain mobile operations for a short time using what fuel they have in their fuel tanks, and in forward supplies. As yet they have not engaged in serious large scale manuever warfare, though apart from the drive to Kherson, neither have the Russians, so as I said, we have to wait and see. Btw, yesterday's Russian casualty figures of just over 1,300 dead for the entire operation so far, have been seen in military circles, including the UK, as while probably pitched too low, are otherwise not far off reality. 30,000 to 40,000 is seen as a fantasy figure straight from the pages of the Völkischer Beobachter or mouth of Goebbels

Russia has nothing to launch a blitzkrieg type offensive with.  All the units they set aside for the invasion are engaged in combat, the overwhelming majority of their contract soldiers are already in Ukraine and the few not in Ukraine cant easily be pulled from their locations without severely compromising Russian defense elsewhere.  They could send in their conscripts but considering the current term of conscripts ends in about a week with the new batch of conscripts coming in this would be a horrible time to use them not that they are combat effective to begin with.  

Even then with spring rapidly approaching and the mud season about to start in Ukraime maneuver warfare will be near impossible anyway for a few months.

As for the casualty estimates, considering its NATO saying 30,000 to 40,000 Russian soldiers lost I'm really starting to question where you are getting your information from.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-03-23/card/russia-lost-up-to-40-000-troops-in-ukraine-nato-estimates-xyZjWxinMDHzdeRZvAeD

This is information that has been spread everywhere for the most part and yet you claim its fabricated.

We will wait and see what happens but you will probably be wrong from what I been hearing.

Edited March 26, 2022 by DarkHunter

[Wepwawet]

1 minute ago, DarkHunter said:

Russia has nothing to launch a blitzkrieg type offensive with.  All the units they set aside for the invasion are engaged in combat, the overwhelming majority of their contract soldiers are already in Ukraine and the few not in Ukraine cant easily be pulled from their locations without severely compromising Russian defense elsewhere.  They could send in their conscripts but considering the current term of conscripts ends in about a week with the new batch of conscripts coming in this would be a horrible time to use them not that they are combat effective to begin with.

As for the casualty estimates, considering its NATO saying 30,000 to 40,000 Russian soldiers lost I'm really starting to question where you are getting your information from.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-03-23/card/russia-lost-up-to-40-000-troops-in-ukraine-nato-estimates-xyZjWxinMDHzdeRZvAeD

This is information that has been spread everywhere for the most part and yet you claim its fabricated.

We will wait and see what happens but you will probably be wrong from what I been hearing.

Please see my edit to the post you quote where I put the casualty figures into historical perspective. And on the Russian capability on launching a "blitzkrieg", just what is the 1st Guards Tank Army for? and some other major units not yet comitted to action. But yes, time will tell and we will soon enough see what the real situation is, though the entire truth will have to wait for a few years I think, and there will be endless arguments for decades and decades.

[CrimsonKing]

15 minutes ago, Wepwawet said:

I didn't expect you to agree with me, not for one moment.

However, time will show the reality. If Kherson is not re-captured in the next 48 hours, or if there is no sign of a serious attempt to do so, that will indicate that they do not have the ability to mount such an offensive. Likewise if the Russians do launch a "blitzkrieg" type assault into the rear areas and rear of Ukrainain forces in the Donbass, and the Ukrainians cannot counter it using maneuver warfare, which they will need to do or just sit in their hedgehogs and run out of supplies while being pounded day after day, then that will show a reality. We just need to wait and see what happens.

When your fuel depots get hit again and again, when vital rail junctions get taken out, then you will have a problem with fuel and other supplies, it's a fact of war. I cannot possibly proove that they have issues with fuel, that will only become apparent if they cannot engage in maneuver warfare, or can only sustain mobile operations for a short time using what fuel they have in their fuel tanks, and in forward supplies. As yet they have not engaged in serious large scale manuever warfare, though apart from the drive to Kherson, neither have the Russians, so as I said, we have to wait and see. Btw, yesterday's Russian casualty figures of just over 1,300 dead for the entire operation so far, have been seen in military circles, including the UK, as while probably pitched too low, are otherwise not far off reality. 30,000 to 40,000 is seen as a fantasy figure straight from the pages of the Völkischer Beobachter or mouth of Goebbels

Thanks for the take I've been seeing things both you and @DarkHunter have mentioned happening,so it's always good to get as many takes and opinions as possible to let people make their own conclusions.

Just like the news here in the states 2 years back we would hear news casters talking about "mostly peaceful protests" while buildings burned in the background...then we heard about the scariest times in our nations history since the Civil War when a few by comparison idiots rioted for 1 day in one place.

Getting harder and harder to believe what you see,and even less of what you hear from a single source in the "information age".

[Wepwawet]

1 minute ago, CrimsonKing said:

Thanks for the take I've been seeing things both you and @DarkHunter have mentioned happening,so it's always good to get as many takes and opinions as possible to let people make their own conclusions.

Just like the news here in the states 2 years back we would hear news casters talking about "mostly peaceful protests" while buildings burned in the background...then we heard about the scariest times in our nations history since the Civil War when a few by comparison idiots rioted for 1 day in one place.

Getting harder and harder to believe what you see,and even less of what you hear from a single source in the "information age".

Yeah I saw that CNN broadcast, an hilarious "Baghdad Bob" moment. Still waiting to see one from Ukraine, give it time, and from either side.

[DarkHunter]

1 minute ago, Wepwawet said:

Please see my edit to the post you quote where I put the casualty figures into historical perspective. And on the Russian capability on launching a "blitzkrieg", just what is the 1st Guards Tank Army for? and some other major units not yet comitted to action. But yes, time will tell and we will soon enough see what the real situation is, though the entire truth will have to wait for a few years I think, and there will be endless arguments for decades and decades.

You said the 30,000 to 40,000 was propaganda but it comes from NATO with other sources putting out numbers roughly in line with those 30,000 to 40,000 lost figure.  It doesnt matter what historical perspective you try to spin it in, the figures seem to be accurate.  If you actually been looking into the conflict you would know a lot of these battles have been extensively violent with the Russian military making choices that have at times resulted in entire battalions being eliminated, like the assault on the airports near Kyiv in the first few days of the conflict or with recently intercepted communications where a regiment lost 50% of its manpower on a failed assault on Mykolaiv.  The Russians have almost 2,000 pic or video confirmed vehicle losses and that is just a lower limit estimate as not all Russian losses have a pic or video taken of them.

Russia hasnt had any troops held in reserve for about 2 weeks now, they have thrown everything they got at Ukraine and so far it has in general not worked out well for the Russian military.

[Wepwawet]

3 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

You said the 30,000 to 40,000 was propaganda but it comes from NATO with other sources putting out numbers roughly in line with those 30,000 to 40,000 lost figure.  It doesnt matter what historical perspective you try to spin it in, the figures seem to be accurate.  If you actually been looking into the conflict you would know a lot of these battles have been extensively violent with the Russian military making choices that have at times resulted in entire battalions being eliminated, like the assault on the airports near Kyiv in the first few days of the conflict or with recently intercepted communications where a regiment lost 50% of its manpower on a failed assault on Mykolaiv.  The Russians have almost 2,000 pic or video confirmed vehicle losses and that is just a lower limit estimate as not all Russian losses have a pic or video taken of them.

Russia hasnt had any troops held in reserve for about 2 weeks now, they have thrown everything they got at Ukraine and so far it has in general not worked out well for the Russian military.

Though having spend a few decades as a "Nato soldier" back in the days, in this conflict they are in fact, if not on the ground, one of the beligerents, and so their pronouncements should be taken as totally biased on the side of Ukraine. I prefer to come to my own conclusions, not let myself be told what to think by propagandists.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Wepwawet
typo

[DarkHunter]

3 minutes ago, Wepwawet said:

Though having spend a few decades as a "Nato soldier" back in the days, in this conflict they are in fact, if not on the ground, one of the beligerents, and so their pronouncements should be taken as totally biased on the side of Ukraine. I prefer to come to my own conclusions, not let myself be told what to think by propagandists.

You can believe whatever you want but when there are multiple accounts from civilians of hospitals in Belarus overflowing with dead and wounded Russian soldiers, intercepted radio communications from Russian soldiers talking about massive casualties, and the mere fact that Russia has lost at minimum close to 2,000 vehicles that would suggest the 30,000 to 40,000 lost figure is probably accurate.

[jmccr8]

1 hour ago, DarkHunter said:

As for the casualty estimates, considering its NATO saying 30,000 to 40,000 Russian soldiers lost I'm really starting to question where you are getting your information from.

Hi Dark

Think that is inclusive of captured, killed, wounded or MIA and not just deaths, pretty sure you know that but just thought I would bring it up.

[ExpandMyMind]

4 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

I just completely and utterly disagree with just about everything you are saying.

The Ukranians have went from the Russian military attacking the city of Mykolaiv to being on the outskirts of the city of Kherson in 48 hours, that is a decent size counter-offensive.  Ukraine overall is fighting a heavily defensive war and taking caution on large pitched battles to minimize their own casualties and it's working for them.  

You havent proved any proof that the Ukranian military is having any issues with fuel.  Locations have been bombed but there is zero indication that the Ukranian military is having severe logistic issues like the Russians are having.

Ultimately Russia went in with approximately 250,000 soldiers and have lost between 30,000 to 40,000 in about a month.  Ukraine is starting to push back the Russians, even if it's not on as large a scale as you would like.  In another month there is a good chance of Russia having lost most if not all of their gains.

I’d also add that Russia have now completely changed their supposed goals. They’re now saying that the offensive in the west was a success and are now going to concentrate on, lol, ‘Phase 2’ in the east of Ukraine.

Trying to save face because the entire operation has been a failure.