Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?

[Occult1]

1 hour ago, DarkHunter said:

As for the state of Mariupol I wouldn't say the Ukranians are out of the fight yet.

A couple days ago there was a video of a Ukranian BMP ambushing two Russian tanks and disabling/destroying both, it shot both in the rear of the tanks with its 30mm cannon multiple times.  Also a video of a group of Ukranians ambushing a Russian troop carrier in Mariupol but it gets a bit graphic as the video shows that all the Russians in the transport were killed.

There are rumors that the Russian perimeter around Mariupol is surprisingly porous and that Ukraine has been able to resupply the defenders and evacuate the wounded out of Mariupol.  Only rumors but the fact that Russia hasnt been able to take Mariupol yet does suggest it may be true.

You are a clinging to false hope.  The fall of Mariupol is imminent. Even Ukraine officials admit it.

Last marines defending Mariupol ‘running out of ammunition’

''The last Ukrainian soldiers defending Mariupol said they were “running out of ammunition” on Monday and expected to be killed or taken prisoner very soon by Russian forces surrounding the city.

Writing on Facebook, the 36th brigade said its 47-day defence of Mariupol was coming to a tragic conclusion.

Russian troops have been besieging the city on the Sea of Azov since the beginning of March. The territory controlled by Ukrainian forces has gradually shrunk to a few central areas. The surviving marines are now holed up in the Azovstal iron and steelworks next to the port.''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/11/ukraine-last-marines-defending-mariupol-running-out-of-ammunition

Edited April 12, 2022 by Occult1

[DarkHunter]

7 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

You are a clinging to false hope.  The fall of Mariupol is imminent. Even Ukraine officials admit it.

Last marines defending Mariupol ‘running out of ammunition’

''The last Ukrainian soldiers defending Mariupol said they were “running out of ammunition” on Monday and expected to be killed or taken prisoner very soon by Russian forces surrounding the city.

Writing on Facebook, the 36th brigade said its 47-day defence of Mariupol was coming to a tragic conclusion.

Russian troops have been besieging the city on the Sea of Azov since the beginning of March. The territory controlled by Ukrainian forces has gradually shrunk to a few central areas. The surviving marines are now holed up in the Azovstal iron and steelworks next to the port.''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/11/ukraine-last-marines-defending-mariupol-running-out-of-ammunition

You been saying the fall of quite a few cities are imminent but yet none of them have fallen yet.  Should take long to see who is right.  

As for the facebook post the Ukranian government and the marines both said their page was hacked and that the message was not from them.  If that is true or not I dont know but I do know that if you are right then Russia should have Mariupol in a few days.  But as I said yoyr track record for imminent fall hasnt been the best.

[jmccr8]

2 hours ago, Occult1 said:

Looks like they are desperate. Why would Russia use chemical weapons when the fight is basically over? Azov fighters are holed up in tunnels underneath an iron and steel factory according to reports. They need to surrender. They have lost the battle.

Hi Occult

It's a video of moving lips with no sound you can make it say anything you want.

[Occult1]

1 hour ago, DarkHunter said:

 If that is true or not I dont know but I do know that if you are right then Russia should have Mariupol in a few days.

Russian troops, military equipments and supplies will likely pour in from Crimea to Donetsk and Luhansk in Donbas via Mariupol once the city is fully secured. Their ability to project in Eastern Ukraine will increase a thousand fold. Ukrainian forces are going to be obliterated if they don't retreat soon to 'safer areas' in the North-West Ukraine.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Occult1

[jmccr8]

15 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Russian troops, military equipments and supplies will likely pour in from Crimea to Donetsk and Luhansk in Donbas via Mariupol once the city is fully secured. Their ability to project in Eastern Ukraine will increase a thousand fold. Ukrainian forces are going to be obliterated if they don't retreat soon to 'safer areas' in the North-West Ukraine.

Hi Occult

Yhe weather man said it was going to snow today and it didn’t, you might want to think about a career change where you can get paid every day for being wrong.

[DarkHunter]

46 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Russian troops, military equipments and supplies will likely pour in from Crimea to Donetsk and Luhansk in Donbas via Mariupol once the city is fully secured. Their ability to project in Eastern Ukraine will increase a thousand fold. Ukrainian forces are going to be obliterated if they don't retreat soon to 'safer areas' in the North-West Ukraine.

What Russian troops, Russia already has approximately 75% of its contract force within Ukraine.  The remaining 25% cant realistically be moved from their positions without Russia leaving what they deam critical areas undefended.  There is still the conscript force but they legally cant fight outside of Russia without a declaration of war.  Even than they are barely trained and poorly equipped so their combat effectiveness is near zero.  As for supplies and equipment think logically for a second, Crimea is significantly further away than the Russian border for most of the eastern front.  Why would Russia use Crimea to supply its troops when moving over the border would drastically shorten the supply lines.  The 60,000 reserves they are trying to call up will take at minimum a month to retrain, organize, and equip so they wont be involved in any conflict for awhile, even than their combat effectiveness is questionable.  Good to see you finally dropped that nonsense of tend of thousands of Syrians entering Ukraine to fight for Russia.

Depending on estimates Russia has lost between 20% to 40% of its combat ability so far.  I know you would love for Ukranian troops to retreat and give Russia a significant victory but the reality is Russia is doing poorly and after what will almost certainly be a failed offensive the Russian military will be shattered in Ukraine and there is a good chance Ukraine will reclaim all of Dontsk and Lunetsk with potentially Crimea.

Should add in the Russians already have a rail line connection leading from Donetsk to Crimea, capturing Mariupol does absolutely nothing to aid in Russian logistics as the Russians already control rail lines and major highways connecting Crimea to the Russisn controlled Donbas regions.

Edited April 12, 2022 by DarkHunter

[DarkHunter]

9 hours ago, Wepwawet said:

The missile was a Tochka-U, out of service with the Russians for ten years

Out of service, very odd that on March 31 there was a video of them being transported by train with a white V painted on them.

So much for being out of service.

9 hours ago, Wepwawet said:

Then this narrative broke down because back tracking from the point where the warhead detonated, through where the rocket motor was on the ground, gives a reasonable line of it's trajectory, and that led south west to an area that is without doubt held by the Ukrainians

That is completely false as the trajectory was clearly from Shakhtarsk in the south east, which is held by the separatists in Donetsk.  To top it off videos of the two ballistic missiles being launched was filmed and uploaded.

9 hours ago, Wepwawet said:

The next problem occured when close ups of the rocket motor were shown on Italian TV, and these images very clearly showed the serial number of the missile, which is not on a plate inside, but painted on the outside in fairly large numbers and letters. The serial number showed that it was part of the stocks that Ukraine inherited from the Soviet Union, and more than that, it's number was part of a sequence of missiles that had been fired by the Ukrainians in 2014 and now in 2022

Do you have absolutely any proof backing up that statement that does not come from Russian state owned media cause I highly doubt that you do.

Basically all your major points have either been disproven or are statements made with no proof and just meaningless claims you have made to push your Russian propaganda.

To top it off this guy got screen shots of the Russiand bragging about the attack before they removed them once civilian casualties were reported.

Knowing you, you will just ignore all of this cause it goes against your Russian propaganda.

[Wepwawet]

7 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

The guy has been named and everything. 

And why are you so hesitant to believe that they would use chemical weapons? Their state news sites have been suggesting they should do so, and there are now claims from Azov that they have indeed used chemical weapons.

Russia already used chemical weapons here in the UK, poisoning our own citizens. Do you even understand the first thing about how Russia operate? We already know they've used chemical weapons in Syria.

Having undergone all the NBC training, I find it impossible to believe that the Skripals were exposed to a nerve agent, and certainly not one described as being the most powerfull one there is. This also applies to Navalny. Out of six people said to have been exposed to Novichok, only one died, the female drug addict who found a bottle of perfume a month after the Skripal incident. The female specialist, who found the Skripals in genuine difficulties sitting on a bench in Salisbury, described symptoms that did not match those of a nerve agent, but of a psychotropic drug, she did not even say that  their eyes were dilated, an effect of nerve agent. But the "narrative" took over and we were bombarded with an avalache of fluff, or something. Then there is the Litvinenko affair, a real case of a Russian being poisened by Russians, but it was in fact an inter mob feud, with Litvinenko being the hired thug and body guard of the major Russian crimminal Berezovsky. But such details have been buried.

Chemical weapons in Syria is a fact? I think not. Who was co-ordinating the White Helmet terrorist organisation, a British colonel who, after far too many questions had been asked about the White Helmets, jumped from a balcony in Turkey, with as yet no plausible reason why he should do so, that is if he jumped.

I think your examples of the use of chemical agents are so wrapped around with smoke and mirrors and huge inconsistancies, quite glaring to any of us who have been trained in NBC warfare, that they are not the best example to use. For the real way that these agents work, and the speed with which they work, you need to look at the Tokyo sarin attack back in the 90s, or of the use of anthrax in Yemen back in the 70s. Victims do not wander around town for a while, then have a meal, then have another walk before being affected by whatever about four hours after being contaminated, they pretty much drop on the spot, their bodies going into all sorts of gyrations and contortions, and their bowels open. But, the "most powerfull nerve agent there is" was used on these people, with one dead in not fully explained circumstances, ie, no autopsy report on the female drug addict, why not.

[Wepwawet]

18 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Out of service, very odd that on March 31 there was a video of them being transported by train with a white V painted on them.

So much for being out of service.

That is completely false as the trajectory was clearly from Shakhtarsk in the south east, which is held by the separatists in Donetsk.  To top it off videos of the two ballistic missiles being launched was filmed and uploaded.

Do you have absolutely any proof backing up that statement that does not come from Russian state owned media cause I highly doubt that you do.

Basically all your major points have either been disproven or are statements made with no proof and just meaningless claims you have made to push your Russian propaganda.

To top it off this guy got screen shots of the Russiand bragging about the attack before they removed them once civilian casualties were reported.

Knowing you, you will just ignore all of this cause it goes against your Russian propaganda.

No, these where Belarussian missiles, and they did not have a white V painted on them, only some Russian vehicles with them were painted, and it was a joint exercise before the war started.

The rest of your rebutals are false, and I will present the Italian video and a list of serial numbers, both of missiles held by Ukraine, and the numbers from missiles they have fired, later today.

[el midgetron]

7 hours ago, Gromdor said:

You can totally have it both ways.  Arming Nazis to kill Soviets is a win-win.  If Hitler and Lenin were at war today and fighting each other, I would certainly throw weapons their way and stand back,

Granted in this case I am willing to say that not all Ukrainians are Nazi's.  In fact I would say most are not- In which case I am fine with giving them weapons to defend themselves.

I’m glad you are willing to admit that arming Nazis is bad, and that you are fine with pushing Russian propaganda. 
…..oh, then you use the “not all” Ukrainians are Nazis excuse. You are still arming Nazis. 

Who did Zelensky give a platform to at the Greek Parliament? “Not all” Ukrainians are given such a voice either……

Quote

And who controlled Congress in 2016 to remove the ban?  Who controlled Congress in 2016? – Colors-NewYork.com

If you want to play stupid games….then who had been arming them for at least two years at that point? 

Problem here is you want to be a partisan and defend the relationship at the same time, So, while you want to claim we are on the right side of history for arming Nazis, you also want to claim the GOP are bad for doing the same thing.  Unlike you I don’t care about partisan politics when it comes to arming Nazis. We shouldn’t arm Nazis. In this case the Democrats were right to oppose it, unfortunately a bit slow and short of accomplishing it …as usual. 

[Wepwawet]

So, for anybody interested in some information on the attack at Kramatorsk, here it is, take or leave it.

The first link is to the Italian TV broadcast where they show the serial number of the missile, which is btw 91579

 

The 915 part of the number shows that it is part of the batch of missiles that Ukraine inherited from the Soviet Union. I cannot provide proof of this, however, below is a list of all the known Tochka-U that the Ukrainians have fired from 2014 until now. The numbers can be found in the third column from the left under the heading, in cyrillic Homep which unsurprisingly is number

The following images show the serial numbers of some of the missiles fired by Ukraine from 2014 - 2022 at Donbass and or Russian forces

Khartszisk 2014, sn 915622

 

Alchevsk 2015 sn 91565

 

Logvinovo 2015 sn 91566, 915527, 915328

 

Berdyansk 2022 sn 915611

 

Melitopol 2022 sn 915516

 

The next image shows Kramatorsk, and with the smaller images showing the area around the railway station. The position of the warhead and the rocket motor are indicated by small red triangles, which I have made clearer by the blue writing and arrows. Though the small photo of the railway station is not orientated with north at the top, by drawing a line from the warhead to the motor shows the trajectory to within a reasonable degree of accuracy. Following the line back in a southwest direction it comes to around the area of Pokrovsk, about 60 km away. This is well within Ukrainian held territory, and even taking the line back to the full range of Tochka-U still puts it in Ukrainian held territory. I'll point out that Tochka-U is a ballistic missile and is not guided, therefore it's trajectory is in a straight line, and so cannot have been fired from Russian held territory and then guided to approach Kramatorsk from the southwest.

 

[ExpandMyMind]

The alleged chemical attack is looking more and more likely to be true.

In the comments section there is a link to a video that reportedly has Russian state media calling for a chemical attack in Mariupol.

At the same time, Zelensky’s advisor is saying that according to the info he currently has, these claims are not true.

So still to be properly confirmed.

[Essan]

5 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

To top it off this guy got screen shots of the Russiand bragging about the attack before they removed them once civilian casualties were reported.

Knowing you, you will just ignore all of this cause it goes against your Russian propaganda.

Just like Strelkov celebrating on social media in 2014 after he shot down an aircraft ...... before he arrived at the scene, saw the wreckage, realised his very BIG mistake, very quickly deleted his posts and started blaming the Ukrainians .....   They do have form, them Ruskies!

[Wepwawet]

Just now, Essan said:

Just like Strelkov celebrating on social media in 2014 after he shot down an aircraft ...... before he arrived at the scene, saw the wreckage, realised his very BIG mistake, very quickly deleted his posts and started blaming the Ukrainians .....   They do have form, them Ruskies!

No he did not. The social media site that he is said to have made these comments on was nothing to do with Strelkov, but was by a man who was wrongly using his name. The VK group was called "Messages from Strelkov", even though they were not. He subsequently changed the name of the group. The actual messages in question were a repost of a video of the smoke rising from the scene of the incident taken by locals. As a Ukrainian airforce transport aircraft had been shot down nearby a day or two before, the locals guessed that this was the same, and were fine with claiming it as being done by their guys. This is what caused the issues with claiming responsibility. It was locals, who did not see what was fired or from where, assuming it was their guys, and then their video and comments appearing on a VK page that was in fact nothing to do with Strelkov.

[Black Red Devil]

8 hours ago, Occult1 said:

Russian troops, military equipments and supplies will likely pour in from Crimea to Donetsk and Luhansk in Donbas via Mariupol once the city is fully secured. Their ability to project in Eastern Ukraine will increase a thousand fold. Ukrainian forces are going to be obliterated if they don't retreat soon to 'safer areas' in the North-West Ukraine.

Hmmm and then what?  You don't seem to grasp reality but Putin can't win this war.  Russia will not be allowed to hold land conquered by force, not this time. While it got away with Crimea (temporarily), they've stirred up a hornets nest with the Ukraine. They haven't even gone close to winning the propaganda war because the UN overwhelmingly voted against the invasion from the start and the only reason they aren't being sanctioned worldwide by the UN is because Russia, as a permanent member, vetoed the resolution.  Yet, because of war crimes and genocide committed in towns surrounding Kiev they've already been suspended from the UN Human Rights Council and I wouldn't be surprised if things get worse, they'll eventually be removed as a Permanent Member.  Nevertheless, over 30 countries in the world have imposed sanctions against Russia and Russians which has dropped their GDP by 12% and made them default from loan repayments, just to name a few 'financial burdens'. 

Now the Europeans are talking about placing an embargo on other Energy sources such as coal.  Eventually, they'll find alternatives to Russian gas and totally ditch it as well, which is the only thing keeping Russia from drowning at the moment.  

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Black Red Devil

[Grey Area]

6 hours ago, Wepwawet said:

Having undergone all the NBC training, I find it impossible to believe that the Skripals were exposed to a nerve agent, and certainly not one described as being the most powerfull one there is.

I don’t see why this is impossible?  On the battlefield or in a mass attack, sure casualty rates will be high, as it will be difficult to provide adequate treatment on a scale required, but in this case they were able to receive the required treatment.  

 

7 hours ago, Wepwawet said:

The female specialist, who found the Skripals in genuine difficulties sitting on a bench in Salisbury, described symptoms that did not match those of a nerve agent, but of a psychotropic drug, she did not even say that  their eyes were dilated, an effect of nerve agent.

Dilated pupils are not a symptom of a nerve agent attack.  So there would be no reason she would have reported dilated pupils.

 

7 hours ago, Wepwawet said:

But the "narrative" took over and we were bombarded with an avalache of fluff, or something.

There was considerable reporting, as well as independent verification of the use of The nerve agent, as well, if I recall, reports of Russian attempts to penetrate the independent labs that received samples from Salisbury.

Also photographic evidence of Russian agents in Salisbury, with a recorded video testimony from the said agents speaking from Russia about visiting Salisbury to see the church steeple.

7 hours ago, Wepwawet said:

Then there is the Litvinenko affair, a real case of a Russian being poisened by Russians, but it was in fact an inter mob feud, with Litvinenko being the hired thug and body guard of the major Russian crimminal Berezovsky. But such details have been buried.

I do find your position interesting.  I accept that there are always going to be layers to the information we receive as members of the public, but you seem to present what must only be your opinion as fact.

[spartan max2]

I for one look forward to Mig's complete disavowement of Trump.  Since having a small number of Nazi supporters is enough for him to want nonething to do with a person  lol

 

[Occult1]

3 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

The alleged chemical attack is looking more and more likely to be true.

In the comments section there is a link to a video that reportedly has Russian state media calling for a chemical attack in Mariupol.

At the same time, Zelensky’s advisor is saying that according to the info he currently has, these claims are not true.

So still to be properly confirmed.

Funny how people believe a bunch of desperate neo-nazis without evidence.

[DarkHunter]

In Belograd near the Ukranian border a railway bridge was blown up.

I been hearing rumors that Ukranian special force teams have entered Russia and have been targeting train tracks to complicate Russian logistics and troop movements.  While the pictures dont conclusively prove it, they do suggest it may be true.

[Occult1]

Putin says Russia will achieve 'noble' aims of its Ukraine military campaign

April 12 (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that Moscow's military operation in Ukraine would undoubtedly achieve what he said were its "noble" objectives.

[...]

Putin said the main objective of Moscow's military intervention in Ukraine was to save people in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine, where Russian-backed separatists have been fighting Ukrainian forces since 2014.

"On the one hand, we are helping and saving people, and on the other, we are simply taking measures to ensure the security of Russia itself," Putin said. "It's clear that we didn't have a choice. It was the right decision."

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-says-russia-will-achieve-noble-aims-its-ukraine-military-campaign-2022-04-12/

 

It seems whatever the West is doing is not working. Sanctions are not deterring Russia. Putin seems intent on putting an end to the genocide of the Donbass people.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Occult1

[DarkHunter]

3 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

It seems whatever the West is doing is not working. Sanctions are not deterring Russia. Putin seems intent on putting an end to the genocide of the Donbass people.

Putin is just attempting a genocide of the Ukrainian people but guess you will ignore that.

Once Russia fails in Donbas I wonder what the next Russian excuse and new military goal will be

[Occult1]

There are reports that Ukraine has arrested the most popular Opposition leader to Zelensky.

Viktor Medvedchuk, leader of Opposition Platform for Life who had 44 seats in parliament. He enjoyed significant support in Eastern Ukraine.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-president-publishes-photo-pro-russian-politician-handcuffs-2022-04-12/

Can we stop calling Ukraine a ''democracy''?

Edited April 12, 2022 by Occult1

[ExpandMyMind]

7 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Putin is just attempting a genocide of the Ukrainian people but guess you will ignore that.

Once Russia fails in Donbas I wonder what the next Russian excuse and new military goal will be

[DarkHunter]

America saying they got intelligence that Russia may use chemical weapons on the Ukranian military and civilian population.

The rumored, which Ukraine is now saying they have confirmed, chemical weapon attack in Mariupol may have been a test to gage the American/NATO reaction to chemical weapons.  

Edited April 12, 2022 by DarkHunter

[Occult1]

US official says no confirmation chemical agents used in Mariupol

An American defense official says the US can’t confirm Ukrainian allegations of a chemical attack in the city of Mariupol.

[...]

“We cannot confirm the use of chemical agents at this time,” the US official tells reporters, speaking on the condition of anonymity.

The official also says Washington does not possess evidence that Russia has been moving chemical agents near Ukraine or into the country, according to Reuters.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/us-official-says-no-confirmation-chemical-agents-used-in-mariupol-official/

 

They can't confirm because it's not true. There is no evidence. Nothing at all. Just another attempt at a false flag by neo nazi extremists.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Occult1