Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?

[jmccr8]

7 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Ukraine war: Mariupol commander makes 'last' plea for help

A Ukrainian marine commander in Mariupol has made what he described as his troops' "last address to the world" as they try to resist overwhelming Russian forces in the city.

They were outnumbered and running out of supplies, Major Serhiy Volyna said.

A Russian deadline for the surrender of Ukrainian forces has passed with no sign that the troops have complied.

[...]

It is unclear how many Ukrainian troops remain in the city, but in a video message sent to the BBC, Maj Volyna, said around 500 injured troops were being cared for at the steel plant.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61159812

 

Should the U.S./NATO undertake a rescue operation in Mariupol?

Hi Occult

Is this like a daily prayer for you that you are giving thanks for every day? You have been singing the same off key song for weeks now and will likely tell us the same story tomorrow.

[Occult1]

13 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Occult

Is this like a daily prayer for you that you are giving thanks for every day? You have been singing the same off key song for weeks now and will likely tell us the same story tomorrow.

Well, as this is a developing story (and a key one in that conflict), updates are regular.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Occult1

[jmccr8]

19 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Well, as this is a developing story (and a key one in that conflict), updates are regular.

Hi Occult

What change they are still fighting and you have said everyday that Maruipol has fallen when it hasn't, then you ask why don't they just lay down their arms and accept defeat. It isn't over so why not wait until it actually is before claiming that all is lost?

Edited April 20, 2022 by jmccr8

[Electric Scooter]

37 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Ukraine war: Mariupol commander makes 'last' plea for help

A Ukrainian marine commander in Mariupol has made what he described as his troops' "last address to the world" as they try to resist overwhelming Russian forces in the city.

They were outnumbered and running out of supplies, Major Serhiy Volyna said.

A Russian deadline for the surrender of Ukrainian forces has passed with no sign that the troops have complied.

[...]

It is unclear how many Ukrainian troops remain in the city, but in a video message sent to the BBC, Maj Volyna, said around 500 injured troops were being cared for at the steel plant.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61159812

 

Should the U.S./NATO undertake a rescue operation in Mariupol?

No, tell them to surrender.

Any NATO action should be to take unoccupied Ukraine instead.

[jmccr8]

2 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

No, tell them to surrender.

Hi Cookie

Why?

2 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

Any NATO action should be to take unoccupied Ukraine instead.

All of the Ukraine is under attack and threat of occupation and you think NATO should do what invade the Ukraine as well?

[DarkHunter]

Ukraine just announced they got 20 more aircraft flying from their jets kept in storage.  

About two months in and Russia has not only failed to establish air superiority but Ukraine has expanded their airforce.

[Occult1]

25 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

About two months in and Russia has not only failed to establish air superiority but Ukraine has expanded their airforce.

Russia definitely has localised air supremacy in Donbas. Which is all that matters at this point. The density of Russian ground-based air defence systems is also much greater there, including long-range SAMs like the S-400 near the borders and mobile SA-17 and SA-15 systems moving with Russian formations closer to the frontlines. Ukraine’s air defense systems have been seriously degraded in eastern Ukaine, allowing the Russian air force near-absolute freedom.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Occult1

[DarkHunter]

17 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Russia definitely has localised air supremacy in Donbas. Which is all that matters at this point. The density of Russian ground-based air defence systems is also much greater there, including long-range SAMs like the S-400 near the borders and mobile SA-17 and SA-15 systems moving with Russian formations closer to the frontlines. Ukraine’s air defense systems have been seriously degraded in eastern Ukaine, allowing the Russian air force near-absolute freedom.

They are so degraded that Russia has been forced to fly strategic bombers so low they are at risk of being targeted by manpads.  

The reality despite how much you try to deny it and flip on what you say is that Ukranian air defense is still significant throughout all of Ukraine and Russia is still forced to use stand off weapon systems to put themselves well outside of Ukraine's air defense range or flying limited sorties at very low altitude to avoid being targeted by Ukraine's air defense.

If I remember correctly Russia recently had more jets and helicopters shot down over eastern Ukraine, but I'm sure you will ignore that as it doesnt further the Russian propaganda you like to go with and push.

[DarkHunter]

Netherlands has announced they are sending Ukraine PzH-2000.  For those that dont know the PzH 2000 is one of the most advanced and best self propelled artillery systems in the world.  It will take some training for the Ukranians to be able to properly field it.

The PzH-2000 fires 155mm shells depending on shell anywhere from 19 to 29 miles, 42 miles if rocketed assisted shells are used.  Can burst fire 3 rounds in 9 seconds.  Can do continuous fire at between 10 and 13 rounds a minute dependent on barrel heating.  More importantly with its computer targeting it can have 5 rounds impact a target simultaneously, which pretty much guarantees a kill.

[Occult1]

Putin Claims Atrocities By Ukraine In Donbass Forced Him To Initiate Military Operation

"All these eight years have been bombings, artillery strikes and hostilities. And of course, it was very, very difficult for people," Putin said.

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Tuesday said that the tragedy inflicted on Russia-backed separatists and the pro-Russian population in the contentious east Donbass region “forced” him to launch a “special military operation” in Ukraine. Authoritarian leader Putin blamed Ukraine forces of the suffering of the Donbass population for almost 8 long years. He then ensured that there will be “peace” in Donbass after the hostilities on both sides cease.

"Unfortunately, in the Lugansk People's Republic, a lot has changed for the worse. Because all these eight years it has been suffering from bombings, artillery strikes and hostilities. And of course, it was very, very difficult for people [living there]," the Russian president said, according to RIA Novosti. ''

https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/russia-ukraine-crisis/putin-claims-atrocities-by-ukraine-in-donbass-forced-him-to-initiate-military-operation-articleshow.html

 

For those who claim that Russian is only in Ukraine for the ''land grab'' are completely ignoring the plight of the Donbass people, who want nothing to do with the Ukrainian state.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Occult1

[jmccr8]

3 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Putin Claims Atrocities By Ukraine In Donbass Forced Him To Initiate Military Operation

"All these eight years have been bombings, artillery strikes and hostilities. And of course, it was very, very difficult for people," Putin said.

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Tuesday said that the tragedy inflicted on Russia-backed separatists and the pro-Russian population in the contentious east Donbass region “forced” him to launch a “special military operation” in Ukraine. Authoritarian leader Putin blamed Ukraine forces of the suffering of the Donbass population for almost 8 long years. He then ensured that there will be “peace” in Donbass after the hostilities on both sides cease.

"Unfortunately, in the Lugansk People's Republic, a lot has changed for the worse. Because all these eight years it has been suffering from bombings, artillery strikes and hostilities. And of course, it was very, very difficult for people [living there]," the Russian president said, according to RIA Novosti. ''

https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/russia-ukraine-crisis/putin-claims-atrocities-by-ukraine-in-donbass-forced-him-to-initiate-military-operation-articleshow.html

 

For those who claim that Russian only there for the ''land grab'' are completely ignoring the plight of the Donbass people, who want nothing to do with the Ukrainian state.

Hi Occult 

All the fighting in Donbass from 2014 till now was through Russian support and not because the Ukraine was invading their own country, they were fighting subversive factions in their own country. Russia instigated it from the start.

[Occult1]

9 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Russia instigated it from the start.

 

.

 

Are they not real people?

Pictures of massive Pro-Russian protests in Donbass, 2014.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Occult1

[Buzz_Light_Year]

15 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Are they not real people?

Their wholesale slaughter of the innocents say they're not. YMMV

[jmccr8]

5 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Are they not real people?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_separatist_forces_in_Donbas

It is widely believed that the separatists are supported by the Russian Armed Forces.^[13] Ukraine, the United States, and some analysts consider 1st and 2nd Army Corps to be Russian formations under the command of the 8th Combined Arms Army,^{[14][15][16][17]} which was formed in 2017 in Novocherkassk, Rostov oblast. Although the Russian government often denies direct involvement, saying their soldiers were there voluntarily and not under orders, some of them have been captured with documents that said otherwise.^[18] The separatists have admitted receiving supplies from Russia and being trained there. BBC reported that separatist ranks are composed of thousands of Russian citizens.^[18][19] Registered Cossacks of the Russian Federation are also supporting the separatists. DPR head Alexander Zakharchenko claimed in August 2014 that there were around 3,000 to 4,000 Russian volunteers fighting for his militia, which included serving and retired Russian Army servicemen.^[20] It is alleged that since September 2015, the separatist units, at the battalion level and up, are acting under direct command of Russian Army officers, with former local commanders sometimes serving as their deputies.^[21]

 

^{They have always been financing insurrection to separatists in a foreign and free country for their own benefit by trying  to undermine their agreement to land settlements with the Ukraine.}

[Occult1]

10 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

^{They have always been financing insurrection to separatists in a foreign and free country for their own benefit}

Of course the DPR and LPR forces are supported by Russia.

For the same reason that the Ukrainian military is sponsored, trained and advised by the U.S./NATO.

When it's instigated by the U.S., financed insurrections are called ''pro-democracy uprisings''.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Occult1

[jmccr8]

6 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Of course the DPR and LPR forces are supported by Russia.

For the same reason that the Ukrainian military is sponsored, trained and advised by the U.S./NATO.

Hi Occult

Do you fail to see that Russia had no intent to let the Ukraine keep the Donbass region and have been working to de-stabilize a country. The US and NATO have been trying to keep the Ukraine united as a whole country?

Two thirds of the population of the Donbass region are in favor of being part of the Ukraine.

Edited April 20, 2022 by jmccr8

[Occult1]

6 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

The US and NATO have been trying to keep the Ukraine united as a whole country?

I support secessionist movements in general. If the DPR and LPR want to separate from Ukraine, why is that a problem?

If that's the will of the people, as obviously seems to be the case here, then let them choose their own destiny.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Occult1

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

1 hour ago, Occult1 said:

Putin Claims Atrocities By Ukraine In Donbass Forced Him To Initiate Military Operation

"All these eight years have been bombings, artillery strikes and hostilities. And of course, it was very, very difficult for people," Putin said.

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Tuesday said that the tragedy inflicted on Russia-backed separatists and the pro-Russian population in the contentious east Donbass region “forced” him to launch a “special military operation” in Ukraine. Authoritarian leader Putin blamed Ukraine forces of the suffering of the Donbass population for almost 8 long years. He then ensured that there will be “peace” in Donbass after the hostilities on both sides cease.

"Unfortunately, in the Lugansk People's Republic, a lot has changed for the worse. Because all these eight years it has been suffering from bombings, artillery strikes and hostilities. And of course, it was very, very difficult for people [living there]," the Russian president said, according to RIA Novosti. ''

https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/russia-ukraine-crisis/putin-claims-atrocities-by-ukraine-in-donbass-forced-him-to-initiate-military-operation-articleshow.html

 

For those who claim that Russian is only in Ukraine for the ''land grab'' are completely ignoring the plight of the Donbass people, who want nothing to do with the Ukrainian state.

For those who claim Russia is only there to liberate oppressed people, there are a lot of Russian instigated massacres they’re ignoring. Or are vague Ill-defined reports only valid if they come from Moscow?

[AlonaLameDeer]

1 hour ago, Occult1 said:

I support secessionist movements in general. If the DPR and LPR want to separate from Ukraine, why is that a problem?

If that's the will of the people, as obviously seems to be the case here, then let them choose their own destiny.

In news.
Occult doesn't know what 2/3rd means....

Also let's be clear "Putin claims" Already comes with a huge problem.
Putin is a liar... Kind of can't get around that.

Edited April 20, 2022 by AlonaLameDeer

[jmccr8]

1 hour ago, Occult1 said:

I support secessionist movements in general. If the DPR and LPR want to separate from Ukraine, why is that a problem?

If that's the will of the people, as obviously seems to be the case here, then let them choose their own destiny.

Hi Occult

Or they could do what many Afghans did and go to another country and still does not excuse Russia from subverting the stability of another country that it agreed to conditions of self identity. They had not intention of letting that piece of real estate go uncontested.

[Electric Scooter]

3 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Cookie

Why?

All of the Ukraine is under attack and threat of occupation and you think NATO should do what invade the Ukraine as well?

Because strategically its impossible to defend.

NATO needs to focus on where it can win and help Ukraine which means going in and taking everywhere Russia hasn`t grabbed.

[Occult1]

32 minutes ago, AlonaLameDeer said:

In news.
Occult doesn't know what 2/3rd means....

90% of the vote was in favor of independence of The People's Republics in Donetsk and Luhansk in a 2014 referendum.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/big-majority-vote-for-independence-in-donetsk-1.1791433

The Only Thing That Can Save Ukraine is Secession

https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/18/the-only-thing-that-can-save-ukraine-is-secession/

Quote

Putin is a liar... Kind of can't get around that.

And Biden is not a liar? Gimme a break.

The facts of what's going on for the last 8 years in the Donbass can be verified.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Occult1

[jmccr8]

11 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

Because strategically its impossible to defend.

NATO needs to focus on where it can win and help Ukraine which means going in and taking everywhere Russia hasn`t grabbed.

Hi Cookie

So fk diplomacy and invade everyone so Russia can't have it.

NATO doesn't invade countries or take them by force and whether NATO goes in as assistance or whether they invade means that they will fight the Russians as allies of the Ukraine or fight Russia and the Ukraine as an invading force. A fight is still a fight how many guys do you want to fight?

Edited April 20, 2022 by jmccr8

[AlonaLameDeer]

19 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

And Biden is not a liar? Gimme a break.

No one here mentioned Biden...
He's not the one attacking a nation and ordering war crimes.
Why did you even mention him? (Ya I know Deflection from a weak argument)

[ExpandMyMind]