Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?

[jmccr8]

2 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

''President Putin could still “win” the war in Ukraine, which is now expected to last until the end of the year, western officials said.

Hi Occult

Quite the invasion that was supposed to be here we are shake in your boots to oh it could be another 8 months and for every day of that 8 months you will be here telling us that it's a done deal should be over by happy hour if the Ukrainians would just put down their guns and quit defending themselves. A bright and cheery thought that is.

[+razman]

7 hours ago, Occult1 said:

Putin has been ordering that: ''Not even a fly comes through''.

According to a video from the Ukrainian commander, they have over 500 wounded, no water, no food, no help from anyone. No extra ammunition.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukrainian-marine-commander-makes-last-ditch-plea-for-evacuation-from-mariupol

Either they choose to die in horrible condition or come out and surrender.

It won't happen. If Ukraine had the resources to break through the blockade in Mariupol, they would have done it already.

Maybe since it pretty much destroyed already , now they are waiting for some of the Russians to pull away , who knows how far those tunnels go. Maybe the Ukrainian commander is making it sound that way , but it isn't quite that way. Maybe the wounded are already long evacuated from there. They knew it was hard for them to do anything while Russia was relentlessly bombing them from the air. War is a psychological game as much as other things. May sound a little far fetched , but maybe not.

Edited April 21, 2022 by razman

[Buzz_Light_Year]

14 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Seems Western officials are scrambling to save face in Ukraine, as their policies of sanctions and arming the Ukrainian resistance is failing.

[Occult1]

17 minutes ago, razman said:

Maybe since it pretty much destroyed already , now they are waiting for some of the Russians to pull away , who knows how far those tunnels go. Maybe the Ukrainian commander is making it sound that way , but it isn't quite that way. War is a psychological game as much as other things. May sound a little far fetched , but maybe not.

There is no doubt a psychological component to this.

The Ukrainian commando's appeal was to draw international support, and possibly a foreign military intervention. On the premise that Russian forces were going to annihilate them. They played their last card.

But now that Putin has decided to just let them have the tunnels, until they decide to come out by themselves, they will be forced to negotiate some kind of deal.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Occult1

[DarkHunter]

8 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

There is no doubt a psychological component to this.

The Ukrainian commando's appeal was to draw international support, and possibly a foreign military intervention. On the premise that Russian forces were going to annihilate them. They played their last card.

But now that Putin has decided to just let them have the tunnels, until they decide to come out by themselves, they will be forced to negotiate some kind of deal.

You really have no idea what you are talking about do you and just try to spin everything as a Russian victory.

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

3 hours ago, and then said:

Ever hear of a little place called the Alamo?  They died to a man but their sacrifice energized a resistance that eventually escorted Santa Anna out of Texas. 

There was also a place called Stalingrad, where a small force of soldiers managed to keep fighting against the odds, allowing the rest of the army to organise a counter attack. 

A last stand is never the ideal solution, due to the human cost, but sometimes it serves to inspire hope. Слава Україні!

[+Nuclear Wessel]

53 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

You really have no idea what you are talking about do you

Admittedly, @Occult1 conjectures a lot - he does, however, raise some valid and interesting points at times, which are worth considering.

[ExpandMyMind]

2 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Two large fires in Russia today. I didn't see it posted but this is kinda of interesting. Makes one wonder if factions are trying to undermine Vlad the Inhaler.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/large-deadly-fire-breaks-out-russian-defense-research-facility
 

 

It’s actually just par for the course in Russia I think.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_military_accidents

[ExpandMyMind]

4 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Admittedly, @Occult1 conjectures a lot - he does, however, raise some valid and interesting points at times, which are worth considering.

I’ve yet to see one, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[jmccr8]

1 hour ago, razman said:

who knows how far those tunnels go.

Hi Razman

I would think that since 2014 the Ukrainian military have seen this as a fortress and those tunnels may hold far more than anyone is aware of like communications center, med facilities and food, arms inventory. Putting a bunch of starving and wounded Russian prisoners in Ukrainian uniform helps as well as a distraction. Not saying that is what they are doing but I'm Canadian and do things the cowboy way.

[DarkHunter]

17 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Admittedly, @Occult1 conjectures a lot - he does, however, raise some valid and interesting points at times, which are worth considering.

Just about every single interesting point as you call them is call them is easily and quickly disproven.  Just about everything he says comes straight from Russian propaganda.

[jmccr8]

1 hour ago, Occult1 said:

The Ukrainian commando's appeal was to draw international support, and possibly a foreign military intervention. On the premise that Russian forces were going to annihilate them. They played their last card.

Hi Occult

They are not playing cards, yes their plea got help and that doesn't mean that a 1000 guys aren't in tunnels eating steaks and dinking vodka while watching Russian news casts for entertainment. We don't know the whole play yet and won't until it happens. You will likely have to wait sometime yet if ever that you get the chance to do the touch-down dance.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

I haven't been following too closely, but there was a comment that I replied to (#4159) before where he talks about the increasing difficulty in defending Ukraine against air attacks, which was fair and valid, because without Western intervention (i.e. provisions of anti-air missiles etc) that part of Ukraine (Eastern) will be terribly difficult to keep.

Just one of the several examples I've seen in my staggered reading of the thread. It just seems like there are a lot of people who are trying to crucify the man instead of actually trying to examine all of his talking points.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Nuclear Wessel

[jmccr8]

2 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Just about every single interesting point as you call them is call them is easily and quickly disproven.  Just about everything he says comes straight from Russian propaganda.

Hi Dark

He expresses a view about how some people in Russia are seeing this situation and don't hold that against him and it is obvious that he is not a fighting man it the physical sense and would avoid engaging in any physical conflict which he doesn't understand the why people will fight for their life even if it means losing their own and saving countless others.

It's a discussion forum and if we all agreed what would we talk about.

[spartan max2]

35 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

I haven't been following too closely, but there was a comment that I replied to (#4159) before where he talks about the increasing difficulty in defending Ukraine against air attacks, which was fair and valid, because without Western intervention (i.e. provisions of anti-air missiles etc) that part of Ukraine (Eastern) will be terribly difficult to keep.

Just one of the several examples I've seen in my staggered reading of the thread. It just seems like there are a lot of people who are trying to crucify the man instead of actually trying to examine all of his talking points.

I crucify the man for telling me every day for the last three weeks that a couple certain cities were going to fall in the next day or two   lol. 

I can only hear the same claim told so many times and ending up not being true before all credibility is lost 

Edited April 22, 2022 by spartan max2

[DarkHunter]

50 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

I haven't been following too closely, but there was a comment that I replied to (#4159) before where he talks about the increasing difficulty in defending Ukraine against air attacks, which was fair and valid, because without Western intervention (i.e. provisions of anti-air missiles etc) that part of Ukraine (Eastern) will be terribly difficult to keep.

Just one of the several examples I've seen in my staggered reading of the thread. It just seems like there are a lot of people who are trying to crucify the man instead of actually trying to examine all of his talking points.

Problem is Ukraine is having zero significant difficulty in defending their airspace.  Ukraine has the second most extensive air defense system in Europe with only Russia having a more extensive air defense system.  Ukraine has hundreds of systems of S-300s, S-200s, and S-125s along with thousands of short range anti-air systems in total.  Ukraine has received MANPADs from the west to further strengthen their air defenses.  

While Russia did target and destroy some of Ukraine's air defense their is zero evidence they have significantly degraded it or that Ukraine is having difficulty defending their airspace but there is evidence Ukraine's air defense is holding.  While Russia averages 200 to 300 sorties a day almost all of them are hundreds of miles away from the Ukranian border and are Russian aircraft firing cruise missiles at standoff range.  The few sorties over Ukraine are almost exclusively flown at low altitude and the only reason to do that is to avoid radar detection and Ukraine's long range air defenses, the S-300s, S-200s, and S-125s, but it does put Russian aircraft at risk of being shot down by MANPADs.  Currently there is picture confirmation of 24 Russian jets and 37 Russian helicopters shot down with the actual number almost certainly being far higher.

His points sound good initially, especially to people who arent really following or have low information on the subject, but with any level of investigation it becomes clear he is just parroting Russian propaganda and misinformation.

Edited April 22, 2022 by DarkHunter

[+razman]

1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Razman

I would think that since 2014 the Ukrainian military have seen this as a fortress and those tunnels may hold far more than anyone is aware of like communications center, med facilities and food, arms inventory. Putting a bunch of starving and wounded Russian prisoners in Ukrainian uniform helps as well as a distraction. Not saying that is what they are doing but I'm Canadian and do things the cowboy way.

Yea we don't know how far some of the tunnels go , a couple may go far enough to evacuate wounded or bring in more troops and supplies. If they wait for the bombing and troops to thin out , and make it look like their stuck , who knows. The Russian soldiers are ruthless , but they don't always seem the brightest. I was talking to the Sarnia checkpoint yesterday, we are thinking of going to the Canada side of Niagra Falls , and could cut up through Michigan and go by Sarnia and London , but  since 9-11 you need a passport , and also a covid plan nowadays, so if something happens you gotta quarantine for 14 days , which could be a problem. Otherwise we gotta go all the way around Cleveland and up through Buffalo.

Edited April 22, 2022 by razman

[el midgetron]

On 4/20/2022 at 7:27 AM, AlonaLameDeer said:

If I was supporting a hostile power that clearly wanted the destruction of my democratically elected government?
I would kind of hope so ya....

Yeah, no one ever thinks they are the bad guys. Especially those who justify the murder of civilians for their political beliefs. This guy literally was just on social media and wasn’t a fan of the Ukrainian government, The same government that employed the neo-Nazis that apparently murdered him. The irony here is defending the murder of civilians for not supporting a corrupt government that employs neo-Nazis. Oh wait, that’s not an irony, 

 

 

 

 

 

[el midgetron]

On 4/20/2022 at 8:20 AM, spartan max2 said:

It's a complicated moral question for democracies when at war. 

Not really. Murdering civilians is not a complicated moral question,

Quote

If we look at the US in the past with the revolution war, Abraham Lincoln, Japanese prison camps, and the red scare. We tend to do the same thing when at war.

There is almost zero people who think the internment of the Japanese was a good thing, 

Quote

Should democracies allow politicians who support your nation being invaded and government overthrown? 

Who is talking about politicians? This was just a guy with a Twitter account…

Quote

The whole, should democracies support the right of movement whoms goal is to overthrow democracy.Where is the line, should there be a line? Complicated questions

You seemed to have reconciled the complicated question in this case,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity

 

[Tiggs]

KYIV, Ukraine — Satellite images released Thursday showed what appeared to be mass graves near Mariupol, and local officials accused Russia of burying up to 9,000 Ukrainian civilians there in an effort to conceal the slaughter taking place in the siege of the port city.

Satellite image provider Maxar Technologies released the photos, which it said showed more than 200 mass graves in a town where Ukrainian officials say the Russians have been burying Mariupol residents killed in the fighting.

Source: AP

[godnodog]

9 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Admittedly, @Occult1 conjectures a lot - he does, however, raise some valid and interesting points at times, which are worth considering.

Agreed.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

9 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Problem is Ukraine is having zero significant difficulty in defending their airspace. 

I can only speculate as to why they were begging NATO just a short few weeks ago to provide them with a no-fly zone. Perhaps they are not having issues now after being provided significant assistance by the West, which ties into my/ @Occult1's point that without Western assistance, they would be absolutely steamrolled.

9 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Currently there is picture confirmation of 24 Russian jets and 37 Russian helicopters shot down

Where? Can you provide a source for that claim? Even if it is the case, you're aware that Russia has over 1000 at their disposal, right?

9 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

with the actual number almost certainly being far higher.

How do you know? How do you know you're not a victim of Ukrainian/Western propaganda? Propaganda exists on both sides. 

9 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

His points sound good initially, especially to people who arent really following or have low information on the subject, but with any level of investigation it becomes clear he is just parroting Russian propaganda and misinformation.

I've been following the crisis since February 24th (less so the past couple of weeks because of how depressing it is, especially the atrocities committed in Bucha) - in fact, I've been monitoring the buildup since November/December. I was actually watching security camera footage of Z-marked vehicles rolling into Ukrainian territories before the first shells were even fired.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Nuclear Wessel

[+Nuclear Wessel]

10 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Just about every single interesting point as you call them is call them is easily and quickly disproven.  Just about everything he says comes straight from Russian propaganda.

And where do you get your information from? Western/Ukrainian sources, just like I do. There exists bias and propaganda on both sides.

[Poncho_Peanatus]

17 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

 

Where? Can you provide a source for that claim? Even if it is the case, you're aware that Russia has over 1000 at their disposal, right?

 

But do they have over 1000 pilots ready?

[+Nuclear Wessel]

23 minutes ago, Poncho_Peanatus said:

But do they have over 1000 pilots ready?

Why not?