Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?

[Occult1]

1 hour ago, DarkHunter said:

Since Sweden and Finland are going to join NATO soon, they should submit their request to join NATO on May 9.  Would be extremely petty but a good way to stick it to Putin too.

Both have agreed to submit their request together.

Why Finland and Sweden Don’t Belong in NATO

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/why-finland-and-sweden-don’t-belong-nato-202002

Very interesting analysis.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Occult1

[Occult1]

25 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Why do you think so?

We have no business trying to solve Ukraine's problems.

Why should we defend them in a conflict with their old nemesis ? There is no benefit for the U.S./NATO on a national security level.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Occult1

[DarkHunter]

1 minute ago, Occult1 said:

Why Finland and Sweden Don’t Belong in NATO

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/why-finland-and-sweden-don’t-belong-nato-202002

Very interesting analysis.

The article is essentially nonsense, there only argument is America shouldn't antagonize Russia by expanding NATO.  It ignores the reality that Russia only attacks countries not in NATO and that Russian military power has been drastically over estimated.  

It's in the best interest of Finland, Sweden, and the west in general to expand NATO and further limit Russia's ability to expand militarily.

[Tatetopa]

4 hours ago, razman said:

Still boggles me why they would openly state this stuff, its like they are trying to antagonize the situation further.

It is for public consumption back home.  The Russian government already knows this stuff.  They will tell the Russian population what they want them to believe.

For Ukraine and all of those countries who support them, this lets them know Western nations are helping and not just standing idly by and watching.  

 

[+Razman]

10 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

We have no business trying to solve Ukraine's problems.

Why should we defend them in a conflict with their longtime adversary ? There is no benefit for the U.S./NATO on a national security level.

Well Russia is kind of a long time US adversary more or less. Like they said , they're trying to weaken them.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

14 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

There is no benefit for the U.S./NATO on a national security level.

It's to show the world that a country simply cannot violate the sovereignty of a nation by attempting to assimilate it into their own via military force.

[Tatetopa]

12 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

We have no business trying to solve Ukraine's problems.

Why should we defend them in a conflict with their old nemesis ? There is no benefit for the U.S./NATO on a national security level.

Of course there is and it is power.  We want Ukraine with all of its resources and agriculture in the camp of the West. We want Russia weakened to the point where they are not an outside threat, but a neighbor that might consider stronger ties to the West.   Then we help them rebuild, not because we are nice but because they have resources that we want.  It is always power.

Russia as a closely linked friend and trading partner of Europe is much preferable to Russia owing favors and granting concessions to China.    

You can keep Slavic greatness alive, but not the way Russia is going, better to side with the Slavs in Ukraine.

You might want to read up on Queen Olga of Kiev.  When her husband was ambushed and killed by an opposing tribe, she became regent for her son.  She took a heavy revenge on her husbands murderers.  By strength and deception she laid her enemies low, then wonder of wonders after her son converted the countrify to Christianity, she became Saint Elena. I am sure a lot of Ukrainians are thinking about her now.

[Occult1]

19 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

It's to show the world that a country simply cannot violate the sovereignty of a nation by attempting to assimilate it into their own via military force.

It's not for us to police the world and meddle in conflicts between Russia and it's former Soviet satellites.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Occult1

[spartan max2]

58 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

There is no benefit for the U.S./NATO on a national security level

Well, Russia has never invaded a NATO nation. 

I'm sure that's exactly what Finland and Sweden are thinking. 

[Occult1]

NATO member says it will block Sweden, Finland candidacy

“We’re not asking Finland or Sweden to change their name to Ikea,” the Croatian president said

Finland and Sweden joining NATO is “very dangerous charlatanry” and amounts to provoking Russia, Croatian President Zoran Milanovic said on Tuesday. Zagreb will refuse to ratify their membership until the US and EU pressure the neighboring Bosnia-Herzegovina into guaranteeing ethnic Croats their basic voting rights, Milanovic added.

“As far as I’m concerned, they can get into NATO, they can poke the rabid bear in the eye with a pen,” Milanovic told reporters in Zagreb on Tuesday.

https://thepressunited.com/updates/nato-member-says-it-will-block-sweden-finland-candidacy/

 

About time someone knocked some sense into Finland and Sweden.

[+and-then]

25 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Russia as a closely linked friend and trading partner of Europe is much preferable to Russia owing favors and granting concessions to China. 

In a perfect world, yes.  The thing that seems to be overlooked here is that Russia has a history of justifiable anxiety over foreign invasion.  No single country lost more lives in WWII, IIRC.  They have that tendency inbred and we ignore it at our peril.  Putin has created quite an ugly mess and pushing him further into the corner just doesn't seem wise to me.  

He has been consistent in his public statements about NATO pushing ever further toward Russia's borders and NATO has ignored him.  Remember that he has a dream of reconstituting the empire that Russia ruled over and he is never apt to be receptive to creating ties with former adversaries if it means that Russia's role as a "great power" will be lost or ignored.  In short, HE is the problem and as long as he and any who agree with him are in power, the world is going to continue down a dangerous path.  

[+and-then]

10 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Well, Russia has never invaded a NATO nation. 

I'm sure that's exactly what Finland and Sweden are thinking. 

Imagine living right next to Russia and knowing that if they decide you've got something they need or want, you could get overrun in very short order.  I'm sure they are watching Ukraine closely.

[Tatetopa]

1 minute ago, and then said:

The thing that seems to be overlooked here is that Russia has a history of justifiable anxiety over foreign invasion.  No single country lost more lives in WWII, IIRC.

You are right about that.  In time even that can change.  If Ukraine wins this conflict, it becomes a doorway for the rest of Russia into the West.   Ukraine lost huge numbers during WWII and later due to Stalin induced famines.  It may be slow, to change, but Russia was opening up before Putin clamped it down again.  It can do so again.

[AlonaLameDeer]

1 hour ago, Occult1 said:

Why Finland and Sweden Don’t Belong in NATO

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/why-finland-and-sweden-don’t-belong-nato-202002

Very interesting analysis.

If Sweden and Finland want to join NATO or think they should because of Russia's actions, then it's not your or anyone else's place to tell them otherwise.
It's pretty clear that Russia and it's supporters issue is respect for national sovereignty. 

[AlonaLameDeer]

51 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

It's not for us to police the world and meddle in conflicts between Russia and it's former Soviet satellites.

It's not Russia's place to invade it's form Soviet co-republic.
All your world views are basically "Russia can do what ever it want's and no one can do anything that stops them, because that would be meddling."

Invading another nation is pretty meddlesome.

Again it's not really your place to tell Sweden and Finland what they should do, and it's good that no one on a larger scale really cares what anything in the thread thinks about it.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

29 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

NATO member says it will block Sweden, Finland candidacy

“We’re not asking Finland or Sweden to change their name to Ikea,” the Croatian president said

Finland and Sweden joining NATO is “very dangerous charlatanry” and amounts to provoking Russia, Croatian President Zoran Milanovic said on Tuesday. Zagreb will refuse to ratify their membership until the US and EU pressure the neighboring Bosnia-Herzegovina into guaranteeing ethnic Croats their basic voting rights, Milanovic added.

“As far as I’m concerned, they can get into NATO, they can poke the rabid bear in the eye with a pen,” Milanovic told reporters in Zagreb on Tuesday.

https://thepressunited.com/updates/nato-member-says-it-will-block-sweden-finland-candidacy/

 

About time someone knocked some sense into Finland and Sweden.

From my cursory research into this the president can't actually do anything to block Finland/Sweden - the parliament would have to come to a consensus on the matter and the decision will be made that way.

[spartan max2]

19 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

From my cursory research into this the president can't actually do anything to block Finland/Sweden - the parliament would have to come to a consensus on the matter and the decision will be made that way.

I read that too, and the parliment is majority made up of a different party.

Reading the speech is interesting. Looks like trying to use leverage to get the US and other allies to pay attention to a Croatia related problem of some kind.

Too bad Helen has been gone for a minute. She lives in Croatia and would have more details probably.

 

[ThereWeAreThen]

28 minutes ago, AlonaLameDeer said:

If Sweden and Finland want to join NATO or think they should because of Russia's actions, then it's not your or anyone else's place to tell them otherwise.
It's pretty clear that Russia and it's supporters issue is respect for national sovereignty. 

You're wasting your time, hes a Putler bot.

[AlonaLameDeer]

7 minutes ago, ThereWeAreThen said:

You're wasting your time, hes a Putler bot.

Ya I'm aware, but I'm also just bored.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

12 minutes ago, ThereWeAreThen said:

You're wasting your time, hes a Putler bot.

I made the mistake of defending him earlier in the thread but he's said a lot of stupid sh!t since.

[Likely Guy]

1 hour ago, Occult1 said:

It's not for us to police the world and meddle in conflicts between Russia and it's former Soviet satellites.

If a neighbour's house is afire, you try to put it out.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Likely Guy

[+Nuclear Wessel]

Just now, Likely Guy said:

If a neighbor's house is afire, you try to put it out.

Or at least call somebody who can.

[Likely Guy]

8 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Or at least call somebody who can.

Sage advice.

[AlonaLameDeer]

20 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Or at least call somebody who can.

Or... and follow me.

let them borrow your water hose/buckets...

[+Razman]

1 hour ago, spartan max2 said:

I read that too, and the parliment is majority made up of a different party.

Reading the speech is interesting. Looks like trying to use leverage to get the US and other allies to pay attention to a Croatia related problem of some kind.

Too bad Helen has been gone for a minute. She lives in Croatia and would have more details probably.

 

Seem like Helen been gone for quite a while now , same with Manwon who actually started the thread, not sure what happened with them.