Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?

[+Razman]

9 hours ago, Occult1 said:

There would be no such warnings, or "threats" if we didn't constantly seek to interfere in Russia's war with Ukraine and even by encouraging Ukrainians to attack the Russian country with the weapons we're going out of our way to provide. That's provocation. I'm offended that our leaders are trying to drag us into a war with Russia.

Problem is , like China , they blame the US for just about everything anyway.

[godnodog]

12 hours ago, Occult1 said:

 

A demilitarized Ukraine with it's own army would be acceptable for Russia. 

What?

Would a denuclearized (lolol) Ruusia with it's own nuclear stash be acceptable?

[ThereWeAreThen]

42 minutes ago, godnodog said:

What?

Would a denuclearized (lolol) Ruusia with it's own nuclear stash be acceptable?

He's probably the worst Putler troll I've seen fair play. 

[+Nuclear Wessel]

3 hours ago, ThereWeAreThen said:

Ye but I still think Putler wont. He keeps threatening to hit NATO now for interefering, well then saggy tits do it. I just don't think he will. Unless the rumours are true that hes dieing or has Parkinsons which he may think **** it and go out with a bang. Nah I think he'll send even more troops in to try and change the tide in Putlers favour. Putler already wants to get about 16,000 Syrian fighters cause his army cant win.

I think maybe he'll try and test NATO a bit more and send a couple of fighters deep into airspace to see how NATO reacts. (I Know we send fighters jets to intercept but I actually mean to see if we'll shoot them down).

I honestly think Putler and his little mafia are just shouting out a load of rhetoric to try and scare the West. But all hes doing is strengthening the West's resolve, defence budgets are sky rocketing, Europe is more united than ever, NATO is expanding and Ukraine is getting stronger.

Question: what do you think Putin will do when he loses the war?

[godnodog]

6 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Question: what do you think Putin will do when he loses the war?

He doesn't have necessarily to lose, all it takes is to give him an opening to leave without loosing face, and I think this should be considered, all his talks about nukes are.to be taken seriously but not to be taken as a reason to be intimidated very much the opposite.

Funny enough Trump would have replied something wild would he be the el presidente and not a Pudding lover.

Edited April 29, 2022 by godnodog

[L.A.T.1961]

30 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Question: what do you think Putin will do when he loses the war?

Western nations have to be one step ahead of Putin and his tactics. Remove his options before he has time to implement them.

He started off in a reasonable position with forces ranged and plans made for invasion, since then he has been increasingly on the back foot.

That has to continue and go further. To the point he is boxed in and without options up to and including when he loses.

Also making it plain that an instant response to escalated aggression by Putin will be used and not discussed first. 

The method is escalation dominance. His only option should be a political climb down and forced to behave in a more internationalist fashion.

How he spins this in Russia is his problem.

But I am sure no longer using force can be sold as the Russians being the less aggressive and more reasonable nation by Putin. 

 

 

[ThereWeAreThen]

54 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Question: what do you think Putin will do when he loses the war?

Post a video of his tits out whilst riding a horse to show he actually won. 

[Occult1]

9 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Russia invaded Georgia in 2008 and Russia has made threats towards the Baltic states and Poland.  In 2007 Russia did a massive cyber attack on Estonia.

You might want to deny it but Russia has shown itself to be an aggressive and expansionist state with no regard to international law or order.  Russian threats, attacks, and outright invasions of its neighbors show that Russia needs dealt with now.  With the Russian military being completely incompetent due to decades of corruption hollowing it out now is the best time to end the Russian threat.

So Russia has only invaded former Soviet states.

[ThereWeAreThen]

2 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

So Russia has only invaded former Soviet states.

Oh that makes it ok then, tell your boss I'll get NATO to stop providing arms to Ukraine since its only a former Soviet state.

[DarkHunter]

37 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

So Russia has only invaded former Soviet states.

Still a sovereign state that Russia invaded.  It is a bot problematic how you seem ok with Russia invading former Soviet states, presume you would be ok with Putin reforming the USSR by force.

[+OverSword]

16 hours ago, Occult1 said:

The rest can be settled through diplomatic negotiation. The most contentious point is Donbass/eastern Ukraine.

A demilitarized and neutralized Ukraine is no longer a threat to Russia.

A demilitarized and neutralized Ukraine would be absorbed by Russia.  Russia has ensured that once they are thwarted here they and the Ukraine will be in a perpetual arms race.  You can bet the US will be a big supplier to the Ukrainians so Russia is screwed. 

[godnodog]

1 hour ago, Occult1 said:

So Russia has only invaded former Soviet states.

So why is Russia resisting being absorbed by the EU? A lot of former soviet states joined the EU so I guess majority wins.

[+OverSword]

13 hours ago, Occult1 said:

I'm not understanding you. Putin is at war with Ukraine, that's his own business. The West is not obligated to enter into war with Russia over Ukraine. Ukraine isn't a member a NATO, why should we risk WW3 over it? You haven't been able to provide a rational answer to this question to that so far. 

Here is why.  Let this happen and within a few years China will take Taiwan.  In this day and age, military conquest for territory should be a thing of the past.  The world can not put up with this bull ****.

[+OverSword]

13 hours ago, Occult1 said:

There would be no such warnings, or "threats" if we didn't constantly seek to interfere in Russia's war with Ukraine and even by encouraging Ukrainians to attack the Russian country with the weapons we're going out of our way to provide. That's provocation. I'm offended that our leaders are trying to drag us into a war with Russia.

Were we provoking Germany into war with England when we supplied England to help them defend themselves or was Germany the aggressor waging an unjust and immoral war?  What are you, some kind of Pravda agent?

[+OverSword]

13 hours ago, el midgetron said:

While it’s Putin’s fault for the invasion, it’s America’s fault for perpetuating the war. Without US involvement, this war would be over. Zero more Ukrainians or Russians would be getting killed. The US arms and aid is like pouring gasoline on a fire.

And precedent would be set for modern day wars to gain territory, which should, in this day and age, be unacceptable to all of us.  The Ukrainians can surrender any time they want Russia to rule them regardless of we giving them the means to defend themselves.  They have not and therefore deserve the support of the world.  Personally I think every country that has no nuclear capability in Europe should be sending troops and equipment in to expel Russia ASAP.

[+OverSword]

11 hours ago, Occult1 said:

Which country has Russia invaded a part from Ukraine?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War  Seriously?

[ThereWeAreThen]

5 minutes ago, OverSword said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War  Seriously?

He comes up from under his bridge with some drivel doesnt he?

[AlonaLameDeer]

27 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Were we provoking Germany into war with England when we supplied England to help them defend themselves or was Germany the aggressor waging an unjust and immoral war?  What are you, some kind of Pravda agent?

I’m actually more or less convinced he is in fact some kind of pravda agent here fishing for Qanon goons. 

[Coil]

19 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

IMO if the west sends that to Ukraine then Russia will make good on its threat to launch nuclear ordinance.

I could be wrong but I just don't see Russia backing down especially after the repeated threats to do so.

And what, everyone needs to be afraid and do nothing? Then it turns out that Russia can intimidate the whole world. If this worked, then Putin would threaten all countries every time and there would be nothing left for everyone but to submit to threats.

If you look at the animal world, then there a small creature always defends itself from a large one to the last, and we, reasonable people, should bow before this Putin scum? We receive assistance from 40 countries and Putin cannot win when the rest of the world is against him. So all these nuclear threats are an act of desperation when the war is lost.

[Occult1]

China Calls Russia Relationship a ‘New Model’ for the World

China stepped up its rhetorical support for Russia, defying the U.S. and other nations who want Beijing to condemn Moscow for the war in Ukraine.

“An important takeaway from the success of China-Russia relations is that the two sides rise above the model of military and political alliance in the Cold War era,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said, adding that they “commit themselves to developing a new model of international relations.”

[...]

He added that this was different from the “Cold War mentality” displayed by certain countries -- Beijing’s standard criticism of U.S. cooperation with blocs like the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, whose expansion Beijing says led to Russia’s attack.''

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-29/china-calls-russia-relationship-a-new-model-for-the-world

 

What many people forget in all this is that Russia doesn't stand alone. China is united with Russia against NATO expansionism.

WW3 (as some people here are promoting) would involve not only facing the country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world (Russia) but also a global superpower (China).

What's so special about Ukraine ( who was a part of the Soviet union since the 1920s) that's worth taking that risk?

Edited April 29, 2022 by Occult1

[Setton]

8 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

China is united against Russia

Pure gold.

[+OverSword]

16 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

China Calls Russia Relationship a ‘New Model’ for the World

 

Yes there is a thread about that already.  So what?  As I stated earlier the reason why Russia must be expelled from the country they have invaded is because China will claim validity to invade Taiwan.  Wars for territory are unacceptable in todays world and must be thwarted at all costs.  These throwback regimes are bad for the planet and humanity and global society.

Edited April 29, 2022 by OverSword

[DarkHunter]

22 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

WW3 (as some people here are promoting) would involve not only facing the country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world (Russia) but also a global superpower (China).

Except that China isnt a global superpower, they have no ability to actually project power beyond their borders.  Russia may have the most nuclear warheads, but given current Russian military performance especially with a failure rate of between 30% and 60% for their precision guided munitions there is good reason to suspect a decent chunk of Russia's nuclear arsenal probably isnt even functional.

[Buzz_Light_Year]

30 minutes ago, Coil said:

And what, everyone needs to be afraid and do nothing? Then it turns out that Russia can intimidate the whole world. If this worked, then Putin would threaten all countries every time and there would be nothing left for everyone but to submit to threats.

If you look at the animal world, then there a small creature always defends itself from a large one to the last, and we, reasonable people, should bow before this Putin scum? We receive assistance from 40 countries and Putin cannot win when the rest of the world is against him. So all these nuclear threats are an act of desperation when the war is lost.

I was just stating my opinion on what Russia would do. I didn't say not to send the material nor did I say to send it. I'm all for helping Ukraine but there shall be consequences.

[Tatetopa]

14 hours ago, Occult1 said:

I'm not understanding you. Putin is at war with Ukraine, that's his own business. The West is not obligated to enter into war with Russia over Ukraine. Ukraine isn't a member a NATO, why should we risk WW3 over it? You haven't been able to provide a rational answer to this question to that so far. 

 

I think you are incorrect to characterize the West helping Ukraine as an obligation.  It is a once in a generation opportunity for the West.  Individuals can empathize  and help others out of a sense of morality. Nations do not. 

Geopolitics  never goes away.  We have been in conflict with Russia since WWII.  The blue chips in this world poker game are control of natural resources and productivity,  There are only so many to go around. The red chips are influence and the goodwill of populations.  

Putin is logical and calculating.  His pile of chips has been dwindling, he needed to win a hand or he will become a minor player at best. He read the cards wrong and just made a big bet with a substantial portion of his chips.

Unexpectedly, Ukraine did not fold but called his bluff.  Unfortunately, their pile of chips was not big enough.

All of the rest of the countries sitting around the table see a golden opportunity.  If they loan Ukraine a few chips each, it is Ukraine that stands against Russia and may win  the hand and owe a debt to all of the other players. 

For  everybody except Ukraine, it is the cheapest way possible to erode Putin's pile of chips.  If the US gives $30 billion dollars, that is a flyspeck of what a war would cost us, and the gain is huge.

Ukraine with its resources, productivity and goodwill of its people  will be linked closer to the West for the next few generations  The  West stands to gain control of some of Russian resources and production, and just as important, elimination of one of the big players in the game. Not to mention closer ties between a number of Western nations who will be free to focus more attention on the other powerful player, China.

The rational answer is not that the West is doing this for Ukraine, but for their own massive gains at the expense of Russia.