Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?


Grim Reaper 6
 Share

Recommended Posts

22 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

WW3 (as some people here are promoting) would involve not only facing the country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world (Russia) but also a global superpower (China).

Except that China isnt a global superpower, they have no ability to actually project power beyond their borders.  Russia may have the most nuclear warheads, but given current Russian military performance especially with a failure rate of between 30% and 60% for their precision guided munitions there is good reason to suspect a decent chunk of Russia's nuclear arsenal probably isnt even functional.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 20.8k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • DarkHunter

    1312

  • Helen of Annoy

    3349

  • Occult1

    1688

  • Grim Reaper 6

    1330

30 minutes ago, Coil said:

And what, everyone needs to be afraid and do nothing? Then it turns out that Russia can intimidate the whole world. If this worked, then Putin would threaten all countries every time and there would be nothing left for everyone but to submit to threats.

If you look at the animal world, then there a small creature always defends itself from a large one to the last, and we, reasonable people, should bow before this Putin scum? We receive assistance from 40 countries and Putin cannot win when the rest of the world is against him. So all these nuclear threats are an act of desperation when the war is lost.

I was just stating my opinion on what Russia would do. I didn't say not to send the material nor did I say to send it. I'm all for helping Ukraine but there shall be consequences.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Occult1 said:

I'm not understanding you. Putin is at war with Ukraine, that's his own business. The West is not obligated to enter into war with Russia over Ukraine. Ukraine isn't a member a NATO, why should we risk WW3 over it? You haven't been able to provide a rational answer to this question to that so far. 

 

I think you are incorrect to characterize the West helping Ukraine as an obligation.  It is a once in a generation opportunity for the West.  Individuals can empathize  and help others out of a sense of morality. Nations do not. 

Geopolitics  never goes away.  We have been in conflict with Russia since WWII.  The blue chips in this world poker game are control of natural resources and productivity,  There are only so many to go around. The red chips are influence and the goodwill of populations.  

Putin is logical and calculating.  His pile of chips has been dwindling, he needed to win a hand or he will become a minor player at best. He read the cards wrong and just made a big bet with a substantial portion of his chips.

Unexpectedly, Ukraine did not fold but called his bluff.  Unfortunately, their pile of chips was not big enough.

All of the rest of the countries sitting around the table see a golden opportunity.  If they loan Ukraine a few chips each, it is Ukraine that stands against Russia and may win  the hand and owe a debt to all of the other players. 

For  everybody except Ukraine, it is the cheapest way possible to erode Putin's pile of chips.  If the US gives $30 billion dollars, that is a flyspeck of what a war would cost us, and the gain is huge.

Ukraine with its resources, productivity and goodwill of its people  will be linked closer to the West for the next few generations  The  West stands to gain control of some of Russian resources and production, and just as important, elimination of one of the big players in the game. Not to mention closer ties between a number of Western nations who will be free to focus more attention on the other powerful player, China.

The rational answer is not that the West is doing this for Ukraine, but for their own massive gains at the expense of Russia. 

 

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

I was just stating my opinion on what Russia would do. I didn't say not to send the material nor did I say to send it. I'm all for helping Ukraine but there shall be consequences.

You have no idea how Russians rejoice on forums when someone is afraid to help Ukraine in order not to get hit by Russia. They become smug that they can bend someone with just political statements.I'll tell you that in fact those European countries that refuse to help Ukraine are simply well fed by Russia.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Occult1 said:

So Russia has only invaded former Soviet states.

As far as i understand it Ukraine been separated from Russia for at least 30 years. So all of a sudden 30 years later they gonna try to redraw the lines? 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, DarkHunter said:

Except that China isnt a global superpower, they have no ability to actually project power beyond their borders.

China has the world’s second-largest economy, a permanent seat in the United Nations Security Council, a modernised armed force and an ambitious space programme.

China has the potential to replace the United States as the greatest superpower in the future.

Quote

there is good reason to suspect a decent chunk of Russia's nuclear arsenal probably isnt even functional

I wouldn't bet on that. The U.S. and Russia have both spent billions upgrading their nuclear weapons in recent years, and nearly 90 percent of Russia’s nuclear stockpile has been modernized, including the development of new weapons and the installation of new cruise-missile systems on its bombers.  They can deploy at least 1,500 warheads on hundreds of missiles based from air, land, and sea platforms that can strike the entire North American continent.

Risking a nuclear war with Russia over Ukraine is pure folly, as is underestimating their capabilities.

Edited by Occult1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Risking a nuclear war with Russia over Ukraine is pure folly, as is underestimating their capabilities.

Underestimate?  Russia has been overestimated, significantly, for years.  There is only the risk of nukes because that’s all they have to threaten with.  

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

China has the world’s second-largest economy, a permanent seat in the United Nations Security Council, a modernised armed force and an ambitious space programme.

China has the potential to replace the United States as the greatest superpower in the future.

China also has essentially zero logistical ability.  They have few to none transport aircraft and few logistical ships.  China's entire military might is limited to essentially China's border.

51 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

I wouldn't bet on that. The U.S. and Russia have both spent billions upgrading their nuclear weapons in recent years, and nearly 90 percent of Russia’s nuclear stockpile has been modernized, including the development of new weapons and the installation of new cruise-missile systems on its bombers.  They can deploy at least 1,500 warheads on hundreds of missiles based from air, land, and sea platforms that can strike the entire North American continent.

Russia also spent billions modernizing their conventional military yet they have soldiers who are give body armor with just the plate carrier and no plates, precision guided munitions that fail between 30% and 60% of the time, tires that literally fell apart after only a couple of tens of miles of driving.  Russia has a severe corruption problem and just cause they spent billions of dollars on something doesnt mean the money actually went to that and not some generals bank account.

54 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Risking a nuclear war with Russia over Ukraine is pure folly, as is underestimating their capabilities.

Cause Russia has shown to be such a military powerhouse with this failure of an invasion.  I know you desperately want people to fear Russia, shiver at their threats, and immediately give in to their demands without question but the reality is Russia has destroyed their reputation and no one will fear them anymore.  Russia has shown themselves to be nothing more than smoke and mirrors, a paper tiger with no bite.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

 

I think you are incorrect to characterize the West helping Ukraine as an obligation.  It is a once in a generation opportunity for the West.  Individuals can empathize  and help others out of a sense of morality. Nations do not. 

Geopolitics  never goes away.  We have been in conflict with Russia since WWII.  The blue chips in this world poker game are control of natural resources and productivity,  There are only so many to go around. The red chips are influence and the goodwill of populations.  

Putin is logical and calculating.  His pile of chips has been dwindling, he needed to win a hand or he will become a minor player at best. He read the cards wrong and just made a big bet with a substantial portion of his chips.

Unexpectedly, Ukraine did not fold but called his bluff.  Unfortunately, their pile of chips was not big enough.

All of the rest of the countries sitting around the table see a golden opportunity.  If they loan Ukraine a few chips each, it is Ukraine that stands against Russia and may win  the hand and owe a debt to all of the other players. 

For  everybody except Ukraine, it is the cheapest way possible to erode Putin's pile of chips.  If the US gives $30 billion dollars, that is a flyspeck of what a war would cost us, and the gain is huge.

Ukraine with its resources, productivity and goodwill of its people  will be linked closer to the West for the next few generations  The  West stands to gain control of some of Russian resources and production, and just as important, elimination of one of the big players in the game. Not to mention closer ties between a number of Western nations who will be free to focus more attention on the other powerful player, China.

The rational answer is not that the West is doing this for Ukraine, but for their own massive gains at the expense of Russia. 

 

 

Good casino analogy.  Once, when I lost lots of chips I went home and got clipped across the ears from the mrs.  Too bad Putin doesn't have someone similar at home.  :P

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Occult1 said:

 

China has the potential to replace the United States as the greatest superpower in the future.

 

:lol: Look up the numbers mate.  The US spends more on their Defense Budget than the next 11 countries combined. It's not swords and shields anymore and we saw in this war that the advantage in infantry numbers are useless if you get repelled by superior tactics and technology and China doesn't even come close to the superior air and naval forces the US has. 

Add to that the other NATO countries, especially France and the UK.  It's no surprise China is observing and staying well away from getting involved in this war.  They're probably re-thinking their moves on Taiwan.

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

:lol: Look up the numbers mate.  The US spends more on their Defense Budget than the next 11 countries combined. It's not swords and shields anymore and we saw in this war that the advantage in infantry numbers are useless if you get repelled by superior tactics and technology and China doesn't even come close to the superior air and naval forces the US has.

 

You are right. But we all know where WW3 would lead to: global nuclear war. The destruction would be massive. I don't think anyone can claim ''victory'' in that.

It was President Ronald Reagan who declared in his 1985 State of the Union address that “a nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought.

Edited by Occult1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Occult1 said:

You are right. But we all know where WW3 would lead to: global nuclear war. The destruction would be massive. I don't think anyone can claim ''victory'' in that.

It was President Ronald Reagan who declared in his 1985 State of the Union address that “a nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought.

Now, that is good rationality but you seem to miss the jump from THAT to 'Putin is the one threatening with nuclear strikes'.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Black Red Devil said:

Now, that is good rationality but you seem to miss the jump from THAT to 'Putin is the one threatening with nuclear strikes'.

It's a reminder that you don’t go to war at all if it’s between two nuclear nations.

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Now, that is good rationality but you seem to miss the jump from THAT to 'Putin is the one threatening with nuclear strikes'.

In fact, Putin is the only one out of all parties involved threatening Nukes.

Why do you think that is @Occult:ph34r:?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, OverSword said:

Here is why.  Let this happen and within a few years China will take Taiwan.  In this day and age, military conquest for territory should be a thing of the past.  The world can not put up with this bull ****.

There’s no way the west would allow this. If you think they’re supporting Ukraine, you’ve seen nothing.

Taiwan are producers of vital micro-processing tech that is absolutely vital to the function of our societies. It’s a completely different ballgame.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Occult1 said:

China Calls Russia Relationship a ‘New Model’ for the World

China stepped up its rhetorical support for Russia, defying the U.S. and other nations who want Beijing to condemn Moscow for the war in Ukraine.

“An important takeaway from the success of China-Russia relations is that the two sides rise above the model of military and political alliance in the Cold War era,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said, adding that they “commit themselves to developing a new model of international relations.”

[...]

He added that this was different from the “Cold War mentality” displayed by certain countries -- Beijing’s standard criticism of U.S. cooperation with blocs like the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, whose expansion Beijing says led to Russia’s attack.''

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-29/china-calls-russia-relationship-a-new-model-for-the-world

 

What many people forget in all this is that Russia doesn't stand alone. China is united with Russia against NATO expansionism.

WW3 (as some people here are promoting) would involve not only facing the country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world (Russia) but also a global superpower (China).

What's so special about Ukraine ( who was a part of the Soviet union since the 1920s) that's worth taking that risk?

God, this is so naive. The only things China cares about are keeping their citizens indoctrinated and in line, and making money.

What they see in this conflict with Russia is the chance to make bank. They ‘sort of’ support Russia and receive gas and oil and investment opportunities at rock bottom rates. Then, if Russia fail, they are there, close at hand, to scoop up the rewards.

They basically want Russia to be a vassal state. Right now, China ****ing own future Russia, no matter the outcome.

Imagine a Russia supporter thinking the Chinese are on their side. Do you even know the first thing about the history of relations between the two nations? Apparently not.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Coil said:

You have no idea how Russians rejoice on forums when someone is afraid to help Ukraine in order not to get hit by Russia. They become smug that they can bend someone with just political statements.I'll tell you that in fact those European countries that refuse to help Ukraine are simply well fed by Russia.

 

I’ve seen this as well, btw. I’ve been keeping my finger to the pulse with regards to how the average Russian is responding to this war, and it’s actually scary. They’re completely brainwashed, and I’m not even using that term lightly. They believe Ukrainians to be pure evil, Nazi, baby-eating (literally in some cases) monsters. It’s madness, but you only have to watch their state sponsored TV or read their state sponsored news articles to see it for yourselves.

I feel more sympathy for the hoodwinked Russian population of 1938 than I do the sick ****s in Russia right now. At least in 1938 they didn’t have access to the wealth of knowledge everyone now does.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Occult1 said:

China has the potential to replace the United States as the greatest superpower in the future.

Quote

China is only powerful because we allow it. They have gotten fat from our pockets.

If they seriously decided to take a hard line against the west, they would be replaced by countless other cheap labour producing nations. See how much they want to throw their weight around when we start dealing with India - their largest competitor and enemy - for manufacturing over them.

It’s been two months and almost all of Europe are on the way to cutting out dependence on Russian gas, something vital to each of us. That will frighten the life out of China. Don’t think we wouldn’t do the same to them if the situation warranted it.

China is not friend of Russia and Putin. They’ll push things as far as they can to make as much money as they can, but they hate Russia and will drop you like an anvil when the time comes.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

They basically want Russia to be a vassal state. Right now, China ****ing own future Russia, no matter the outcome.

Unless.

If Russia goes too far and starts a shooting war with NATO, it could result in their defeat and occupation by Western powers, cities, oil fields and all. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Tatetopa said:

Unless.

If Russia goes too far and starts a shooting war with NATO, it could result in their defeat and occupation by Western powers, cities, oil fields and all. 

I actually think there might be a good chance that the US has contingency plans. I don’t know if they’d be effective, but @DarkHunterbrought up a really good point about MAD and the US’ evolution from simply mutually assured destruction.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

Western nations have to be one step ahead of Putin and his tactics. Remove his options before he has time to implement them.

He started off in a reasonable position with forces ranged and plans made for invasion, since then he has been increasingly on the back foot.

That has to continue and go further. To the point he is boxed in and without options up to and including when he loses.

Also making it plain that an instant response to escalated aggression by Putin will be used and not discussed first. 

The method is escalation dominance. His only option should be a political climb down and forced to behave in a more internationalist fashion.

How he spins this in Russia is his problem.

But I am sure no longer using force can be sold as the Russians being the less aggressive and more reasonable nation by Putin. ;)

 

 

I agree, there's always that possibility he gets too 'boxed in' and starts pushing buttons out of desperation.  Depends a lot on what expert analysts in the west know and how much control he has over the rest of the decision makers in Russia.  The best tactic for Ukraine and the west is to protect the civilians, limit his gains and turn this invasion into an inexorable, grinding financial nightmare for the Russians.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ukranian forces have liberated more towns around Kharkiv, rest of the areas there hasnt really been any change in held territory.

British intelligence is thinking its possible Putin will formally declare war on Ukraine during the May 9 victory parade.

Putin declaring war on Ukraine would arguably be the single dumbest thing he could do.  It would allow Ukraine to bring in its conscript force but they are at best poorly trained and at worst have no training what so ever.  Losses on the Russian side would sky rocket to insane levels.  The worst aspect though is that Putin would completely lose the control he has over the invasion.  Currently with the invasion remaining a special military operation Putin can end it whenever he feels like but if he declares war than the Russian government decides when the war will end.  

It does seem safe something will happen on May 9, just not clear what.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

In fact, Putin is the only one out of all parties involved threatening Nukes.

Why do you think that is @Occult:ph34r:?

Nuke serves to deter NATO.

If the prospect of nuclear warefare can keep NATO out of Ukraine, Russia will keep brandishing it.

 

Edited by Occult1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Nuke serves to deter NATO.

If the prospect of nuclear warefare can keep NATO out of Ukraine, Russia will keep brandishing it.

 

You didn't answer the question.

Why is Putin the only player who is using nukes as a threat?

Do you not find it interesting that the West, who has immensely more Nukes than Russia, had not used that as a threat or deterent strategy against Russia in Ukraine ?

Surely nuclear war and the annihilation of Russia would also be a concern for someone in Russia 

Edited by spartan max2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • The topic was locked
  • The topic was unlocked
  • This topic was locked and unlocked
  • This topic was locked and unlocked

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   4 members

    • Shelly Cat
    • jules99
    • Grey Area
    • ThereWeAreThen