ThereWeAreThen Posted May 6, 2022 #4951 Share Posted May 6, 2022 23 minutes ago, spartan max2 said: I find the headline to be a little sensational. Russia burning through their reserves to keep their economy propped up. The full economic effect of the ear and sanctions have not been realized yet. Similar to the cost of the war, Putin does not have the resources to play this game for long. The longer he goes the worse it will be for Russia. Plus replacing warships aint cheap. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted May 6, 2022 #4952 Share Posted May 6, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, spartan max2 said: I find the headline to be a little sensational. Russia burning through their reserves to keep their economy propped up. The full economic effect of the ear and sanctions have not been realized yet. Similar to the cost of the war, Putin does not have the resources to play this game for long. The longer he goes the worse it will be for Russia. I think we need to consider that the sanctions are not working as intended. What is the point of imposing sanctions that will not produce significant effects (if any) until years down the road? The West, in fact, is caught in a trap: The sanctions and the deepening conflict, by helping to raise global commodity and energy prices, translate into higher revenues for Moscow in spite of a significant decrease in its exports. And the higher international prices, by fueling inflation, mean political trouble at home for those behind the sanctions. The average Western citizens are asked to pay higher living costs to help finance those sanctions, that are clearly not working or benefiting them. Why Sanctions Too Often Fail https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/why-sanctions-too-often-fail Edited May 6, 2022 by Occult1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted May 6, 2022 #4953 Share Posted May 6, 2022 9 minutes ago, Occult1 said: I think we need to consider that the sanctions are not working as intended. What is the point of imposing sanctions that will not produce significant effects (if any) until years down the road? The West, in fact, is caught in a trap: The sanctions and the deepening conflict, by helping to raise global commodity and energy prices, translate into higher revenues for Moscow in spite of a significant decrease in its exports. And the higher international prices, by fueling inflation, mean political trouble at home for those behind the sanctions. The average Western citizens are asked to pay higher living costs to help finance those sanctions, that are clearly not working or benefiting them. Why Sanctions Too Often Fail https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/why-sanctions-too-often-fail The Russian bank said they expect 18-20% inflation rate by the end of the year. Nonething to cough at. And that's assuming no new sanctions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiXilver Posted May 6, 2022 #4954 Share Posted May 6, 2022 The more the sanctions kick in and punish and impact the lives of regular folks, the more they're likely to support more military action. I see why we do it, but eventually with it, triggers the law of diminishing returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coil Posted May 6, 2022 #4955 Share Posted May 6, 2022 18 hours ago, DarkHunter said: The rest will be trained at probably close to maximum training capacity for Ukraine. Probably take approximately 2 months to train, equipped, and organize each batch with each batch probably being between 100,000 to 200,000 soldiers. The first batch will probably be ready soon if it isnt already. Realistically by start of fall to mid fall Ukraine will probably have increased its military size by 500,000 to 600,000 extra combatants. Information has been received that Russian soldiers are now being thrown into battle after 4 days of training. We have accelerated training lasts from 7 to 20 days, depending on the complexity of the training.While there is no mobilization, but I saw a bus standing in the city near the draft board with conscripts. It is reported that some Russian equipment is 5 times more than Ukrainian, so we need a lot of foreign weapons to advance and win. Enemies bombed railway electrical substations for several days in a row. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coil Posted May 6, 2022 #4956 Share Posted May 6, 2022 22 minutes ago, quiXilver said: The more the sanctions kick in and punish and impact the lives of regular folks, the more they're likely to support more military action. Someone from foreign politicians said that the Russians "will eat potatoes and cucumbers" but will not go out to protest demonstrations.Putin convinced the population that either Russia is waging war or NATO will destroy us, so this is a noble war with the enemy, even if it is waged in Ukraine.Nevertheless, sanctions are needed otherwise the Russians will think that everything is in order and the war should not affect them in any way. Russian military propagandists are promoting the idea that either Ukraine capitulates or it is destroyed because they do not recognize us as an independent nation, such intimidation is coming. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiXilver Posted May 6, 2022 #4957 Share Posted May 6, 2022 3 minutes ago, Coil said: Someone from foreign politicians said that the Russians "will eat potatoes and cucumbers" but will not go out to protest demonstrations.Putin convinced the population that either Russia is waging war or NATO will destroy us, so this is a noble war with the enemy, even if it is waged in Ukraine.Nevertheless, sanctions are needed otherwise the Russians will think that everything is in order and the war should not affect them in any way. Russian military propagandists are promoting the idea that either Ukraine capitulates or it is destroyed because they do not recognize us as an independent nation, such intimidation is coming. In future, please refrain from editing what is being quoted. Removing text can break context and change meaning. Or at the very least, indicate when you've chosen to alter another's words in your quote with a <snip> that replaces deleted text. But really, if quoting, do not edit. It's bad form. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted May 6, 2022 #4958 Share Posted May 6, 2022 4 minutes ago, Coil said: Someone from foreign politicians said that the Russians "will eat potatoes and cucumbers" but will not go out to protest demonstrations.Putin convinced the population that either Russia is waging war or NATO will destroy us, so this is a noble war with the enemy, even if it is waged in Ukraine.Nevertheless, sanctions are needed otherwise the Russians will think that everything is in order and the war should not affect them in any way. Russian military propagandists are promoting the idea that either Ukraine capitulates or it is destroyed because they do not recognize us as an independent nation, such intimidation is coming. I think you are unaware but there is widespread support for Putin and his `special operation` in Russia. Western media cherry pick demonstrations and outspoken people who are opposed to it, but thats not the view of most of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el midgetron Posted May 6, 2022 #4959 Share Posted May 6, 2022 Ukrainian blogger accused of being a pro-Putin propagandist is arrested in Spain for 'high treason' A Ukrainian blogger accused of being a pro-Putin propagandist has been arrested in Spain on charges of 'high treason' today. Anatoly Shariy, 43 and originally from Kyiv, was detained Thursday on an international arrest warrant issued by Ukraine's SBU domestic security service. It is not clear where exactly Shariy was found, but he has been living in a town somewhere on Spain's Catalan coast since 2016 while claiming political asylum. Shariy, a former investigative reporter, had claimed he was being targeted by neo-Nazi groups within Ukraine because of his work exposing state corruption. Critics say that, since Russia last invaded Ukraine in 2014, he has become a pro-Russia mouthpiece and Putin apologist - charges that he denies. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10785457/Ukrainian-blogger-accused-pro-Putin-propagandist-arrested-Spain.html Last month, footage was released of Associated Press accompanying armed men from the Ukraine Security Service as they kidnapped and arrested dissidents from their own homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coil Posted May 6, 2022 #4960 Share Posted May 6, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said: I think you are unaware but there is widespread support for Putin and his `special operation` in Russia. Well, what am I talking about .. there will be no protests in Russia even if they live even worse. 22 minutes ago, el midgetron said: Ukrainian blogger accused of being a pro-Putin propagandist is arrested in Spain for 'high treason' Shariy at first criticized the power of Poroshenko and then began to work for Russia. It is a pity that he was released, he openly and has long supported Putin. In Ukraine, he would have been arrested long ago. Edited May 6, 2022 by Coil 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted May 6, 2022 #4961 Share Posted May 6, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Cookie Monster said: I think you are unaware but there is widespread support for Putin and his `special operation` in Russia. Western media cherry pick demonstrations and outspoken people who are opposed to it, but thats not the view of most of them. This is sponsored by the Ukrainian government but I think it reflects what other news outlets have said. Edited May 6, 2022 by The Silver Shroud 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHunter Posted May 6, 2022 #4962 Share Posted May 6, 2022 Ukranian counter offensive around Kharkiv seems to be going well. Multiple towns have been liberated, the Ukranian military is now north of Staryi Saltiv and still pushing towards the border of Russia. The Russian military did try a counter attack on Staryi Saltiv but it failed with the loss of multiple Russian vehicles. It seems that before long all Russian forces north of Kharkiv and west of the Siverskyi Donets river will be pushed back over the border. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted May 6, 2022 #4963 Share Posted May 6, 2022 (edited) We have to remember that Russian TV News is banned for many people here so they dont know whats going on in Russia. Putin is holding war rallies and all sorts, and is genuinely popular. There is widespread support not only for the war but they are quite eager to nuke NATO even though it will end them back. They are really ripping Britain and the US. Edited May 6, 2022 by Cookie Monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted May 6, 2022 #4964 Share Posted May 6, 2022 (edited) Something has started leaking through to the news. Ukraine has got a 2nd ship in the Black Sea. Will link as soon as it reaches UK news. Its the Admiral Makarov. Edited May 6, 2022 by Cookie Monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted May 6, 2022 #4965 Share Posted May 6, 2022 (edited) 33 minutes ago, The Silver Shroud said: This is sponsored by the Ukrainian government but I think it reflects what other news outlets have said. "Nobody is bombing Kyive, I don't believe it" Dam. They got effective propaganda in Russia. Historical war does increase the popularity of a leader in the short term. Sadly. Humans are a special sort. Edited May 6, 2022 by spartan max2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted May 6, 2022 #4966 Share Posted May 6, 2022 4 hours ago, quiXilver said: The more the sanctions kick in and punish and impact the lives of regular folks, the more they're likely to support more military action. I see why we do it, but eventually with it, triggers the law of diminishing returns. Well,quite. Many historians point to the rampant inflation that resulted from sanctions after WW1 as a factor that led to the breed ground that produced the Nazis (amongst other almost as dangerous groups). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Razman Posted May 6, 2022 #4967 Share Posted May 6, 2022 9 hours ago, spartan max2 said: Evidence for that? How are they doing "damage control"? From my impression the Pentagon was being pretty clear that our intelligence is indeed helping Ukraine, just like how we are giving them weapons. Would be weird to me for us to give them weapons and not also give Intel. It was something i read somewhere , that they are backing up and saying that they are not giving intel to kill , but other reasons .I understand that everyone pretty much knows what we are doing , but them keep running their mouths makes them sound arrogant to me and further antagonizing. Like they are waving a trophy or something. Other regimes around the world (and pretty much anybody) , will see this as well and bring further resentment towards the US because of this , even after this war is done . If i was in charge there , you would never hear anything about what i was doing , i would just do it. Like here i just read as well . Ex-spies and diplomats say the Biden administration needs to 'shut-up' after NYT report about US intelligence helping Ukraine kill Russian generals (msn.com) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Razman Posted May 6, 2022 #4968 Share Posted May 6, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said: We have to remember that Russian TV News is banned for many people here so they dont know whats going on in Russia. Putin is holding war rallies and all sorts, and is genuinely popular. There is widespread support not only for the war but they are quite eager to nuke NATO even though it will end them back. They are really ripping Britain and the US. Its not really surprising , seeing as though those two are supplying a lot of weapons and the US keeps running their mouths. Not to say that others are not suppling weapons and maybe not saying some things , but it is what it is. We know Russia invaded and all , and so it is war , but those weapons are killing their people just the same. Edited May 6, 2022 by razman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Area Posted May 6, 2022 #4969 Share Posted May 6, 2022 1 hour ago, spartan max2 said: Dam. They got effective propaganda in Russia. The threat of a hefty prison term for speaking out against your government is an effective tool. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el midgetron Posted May 7, 2022 #4970 Share Posted May 7, 2022 3 hours ago, Grey Area said: The threat of a hefty prison term for speaking out against your government is an effective tool. But when Ukraine kidnaps dissidents that’s acceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted May 7, 2022 #4971 Share Posted May 7, 2022 10 minutes ago, el midgetron said: But when Ukraine kidnaps dissidents that’s acceptable? What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el midgetron Posted May 7, 2022 #4972 Share Posted May 7, 2022 (edited) “I believe you will win, I am convinced you will win and we will do everything we can to provide you with what you need to win” - John McCain 2016 Eight years later we see what the US’s idea of a country “winning” a US proxy war looks like. Not that we haven’t already known this from the Middle East…… Edited May 7, 2022 by el midgetron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el midgetron Posted May 7, 2022 #4973 Share Posted May 7, 2022 10 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said: What's good for the goose is good for the gander. That’s fine, but the goose doesn’t get to complain about the gander pooping on the grass when the goose poops on the grass too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el midgetron Posted May 7, 2022 #4974 Share Posted May 7, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted May 7, 2022 #4975 Share Posted May 7, 2022 9 minutes ago, el midgetron said: That’s fine, but the goose doesn’t get to complain about the gander pooping on the grass when the goose poops on the grass too. Of course, it does. It's the Slavic way and the way of War, everywhere. Both sides in war dehumanize one another to facilitate all the killing. One thing the Russians have demonstrated, quite well, is they can retreat one hell of a lot faster than they can advance. They've yet to face the massive counterattack Ukrainians are be armed and trained for, ever as we speak. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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