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Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?


Grim Reaper 6

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5 hours ago, joc said:

What is anyone really going to do?  Nothing!  ...but blame others...apparently

He can't exist outside the support of other countries.  If he gets serious globally-enforced consequences that really damage his economy then he'll have to back up and rethink his efforts.  Meanwhile, if he really IS insane then right now is the time to flood eastern European NATO nations with serious armaments and logistical infrastructure.  The west cannot stop him from flinging nukes, only his own supporters can do that.  

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Ukranian forced recaptured the airport near Kiev, seems the VDV units that captured it were completely destroyed.  Not clear on how many killed and how many were captured, given they are an elite unit most were probably killed.  It was confirmed there was an SSO unit there so there was Russian special forces involved.

Editing to put this in perspective, 600+ Russian elite and special forces were killed or captured at the airport battle.

Edited by DarkHunter
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13 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

But why isn't Biden talking about the U.S. wanting to expand NATO?

There are always 2 sides of the coin.

That's Russian propaganda approach. It's a lie, in other words. 

Eastern European countries wanted to join NATO and now you see why. 

That crappy lie about evil America tricking people into becoming NATO members is offensive - it requires you to believe Eastern Europeans are so dumb and passive they can't decide or do anything on their own. 

 

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Helen's right. I do believe we have Gremlin from the Kremlin in our midst.

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2 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

And the same crap again. 

Ukrainians ousted Russian puppet and they'd do it even if America begged them not to. 

As I said, it requires amazingly low opinion on Ukrainians (and E Europeans in general) to be able to believe everything they/we do has to come from America. 

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10,000 automatic weapons handed out in Kiev right now, citizens have been ordered to make molotov cocktails and attack any Russian convoy entering the city.

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2 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Hi Occult

They broke an agreement and invaded a country that it made concessions to and recognized that it would become a NATO member back in 2014. The Russian people are not behind this action as seen by party members signing public protests. This is about what one man wants and how we exercises his authority.

PS

 Our country has diverse climate environments from desert to artic and yes we co-train military units from all over the world and take offence at your claim that we train nazi militia. I have been on bases with men from Australia, UK, France, USA,  AND AT NO TIME WERE THEY ANYTHING OTHER THAN WELL TRAINED MILITARY PERSONAL.

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In the end, Russia's victory will be Pyrrhic in nature. The whole of Scandinavia will become Nato and Russia, once more, will enjoy the unenviable status of international pariah State.

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20 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

That's Russian propaganda approach. It's a lie, in other words. 

Eastern European countries wanted to join NATO and now you see why. 

That crappy lie about evil America tricking people into becoming NATO members is offensive - it requires you to believe Eastern Europeans are so dumb and passive they can't decide or do anything on their own. 

 

It was known since the 1990's that Russia would react badly to NATO expansion at it's borders. What we see is the result of NATO's aggressive expansion plan to the East.

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4 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

I don’t think MAD necessarily applies anymore. 

It exists so long as there is a will to strike back.  We have several boomers at sea at any given moment and any ONE of them could end all the major population centers in Russia.  He knows this but if he has come to believe that our leadership lacks the will to fight, then we might as well have no defense at all.

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4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse:

1st Plague: Coronavirus

2nd War: Russia Empire Mach 2

3rd Famine: Russia and Ukraine are major grain exporters, inflation coming.

4th Death: The nukes fly!!!!

Prep now!!!

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23 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Occult

They broke an agreement and invaded a country that it made concessions to and recognized that it would become a NATO member back in 2014. The Russian people are not behind this action as seen by party members signing public protests. This is about what one man wants and how we exercises his authority.

I don't know, many Russian citizens seem to support Putin.  I haven't seen any evidence of the contrary. But wars are always unpopular in the long run. They cost many lives and trillions of dollars.

Quote

PS

 Our country has diverse climate environments from desert to artic and yes we co-train military units from all over the world and take offence at your claim that we train nazi militia. I have been on bases with men from Australia, UK, France, USA,  AND AT NO TIME WERE THEY ANYTHING OTHER THAN WELL TRAINED MILITARY PERSONAL.

Credible news sources have reported on the US and Canada training Neo Nazi millitias in Ukraine:

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/western-countries-training-far-right-extremists-in-ukraine-report-682411

https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-america-training-neonazis-in-ukraine

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/far-right-extremists-in-ukrainian-military-bragged-about-canadian-training-report-says-1.5631304

https://readpassage.com/canadian-media-is-happy-to-risk-arming-neo-nazis-in-ukraine/

 

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4 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

I don't know, many Russian citizens seem to support Putin.  I haven't seen any evidence of the contrary. But wars are always unpopular in the long run. They cost many lives and trillions of dollars.

Credible news sources have reported on the US and Canada training Neo Nazi millitias in Ukraine.

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/western-countries-training-far-right-extremists-in-ukraine-report-682411

https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-america-training-neonazis-in-ukraine

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/far-right-extremists-in-ukrainian-military-bragged-about-canadian-training-report-says-1.5631304

https://readpassage.com/canadian-media-is-happy-to-risk-arming-neo-nazis-in-ukraine/

 

Hi O ccult

Did you read your link? What you are doing is using whatever straws you can find to support your fictional thinking.

WHAT IS CANADA’S RESPONSE TO THE REPORT?

In an emailed statement to CTVNews.ca on Monday, the Canadian Armed Forces said it is “very concerned” by the findings of the study.

“In light of these findings, DND will be conducting a thorough review of the report, including whether or not current policies and procedures in place are sufficiently stringent to flag and prevent the CAF from unwittingly aiding those whose views it fundamentally opposes,” the statement reads.

The statement says that Canada relies on the Ukrainian Ministry of Defence to vet its members, but if Canadian soldiers suspect that their Ukrainian counterparts or trainees hold racist views, they are removed immediately.

“There is no burden of proof on the CAF to demonstrate this beyond a reasonable doubt,” the statement continues. “When Ukrainian military officers are selected to pursue opportunities in Canada, it is a firm prerequisite that the members not hold values contrary to those held by their Canadians hosts of the Ukrainian government.”

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6 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi O ccult

Did you read your link? What you are doing is using whatever straws you can find to support your fictional thinking.

WHAT IS CANADA’S RESPONSE TO THE REPORT?

In an emailed statement to CTVNews.ca on Monday, the Canadian Armed Forces said it is “very concerned” by the findings of the study.

“In light of these findings, DND will be conducting a thorough review of the report, including whether or not current policies and procedures in place are sufficiently stringent to flag and prevent the CAF from unwittingly aiding those whose views it fundamentally opposes,” the statement reads.

The statement says that Canada relies on the Ukrainian Ministry of Defence to vet its members, but if Canadian soldiers suspect that their Ukrainian counterparts or trainees hold racist views, they are removed immediately.

“There is no burden of proof on the CAF to demonstrate this beyond a reasonable doubt,” the statement continues. “When Ukrainian military officers are selected to pursue opportunities in Canada, it is a firm prerequisite that the members not hold values contrary to those held by their Canadians hosts of the Ukrainian government.”

Did you read the report?

https://www.illiberalism.org/far-right-group-made-its-home-in-ukraines-major-western-military-training-hub/

Of course the Canadian governement will not admit to having trained Neo Nazi forces. That wouldn't look too great.

Perhaps they did not even know it, or made no real distinctions. But the evidence is there.

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26 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

It was known since the 1990's that Russia would react badly to NATO expansion at it's borders. What we see is the result of NATO's aggressive expansion plan to the East.

And now you see why is NATO making Putin so nervous. Because the evil gnome wants to invade countries which are now NATO members and force them back into zombie USSR. 

One more time, because you apparently didn't understand me yet: My country is in NATO. It is my choice and the choice of majority of my countrymen. When Ukraine enters NATO, it will be because it is the choice of their citizens. And it is so because Putin is murderous aggressor and we all need to stick together against him.  

 

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33 minutes ago, and then said:

It exists so long as there is a will to strike back.  We have several boomers at sea at any given moment and any ONE of them could end all the major population centers in Russia.  He knows this but if he has come to believe that our leadership lacks the will to fight, then we might as well have no defense at all.

The thing is that there is no guarantee that the receiving party or their allies will be able to effectively strike back, is my point, given current tech combined with other measures. There is no “guarantee” that you will be able to respond if you have no idea of a launch, its trajectory, etc to begin with.

Edited by Nuclear Wessel
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49 minutes ago, and then said:

He can't exist outside the support of other countries.  If he gets serious globally-enforced consequences that really damage his economy then he'll have to back up and rethink his efforts.  Meanwhile, if he really IS insane then right now is the time to flood eastern European NATO nations with serious armaments and logistical infrastructure.  The west cannot stop him from flinging nukes, only his own supporters can do that.  

What globally enforced consequences are going to damage Russia's economy?  He isn't insane.  No one is going to flood Eastern Europe with anything.  He isn't going to 'fling' nukes.  He doesn't have any supporters.  He has the Power behind him.  He doesn't need supporters.

Russia will take the Ukraine and there isn't a bloody thing anyone can do to stop it and THAT is his whole point...beyond the obvious desires to bring the Ukraine back under Russian Control.

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Just now, Occult1 said:

Did you read the rapport?

https://www.illiberalism.org/far-right-group-made-its-home-in-ukraines-major-western-military-training-hub/

Of course the Canadian governement will not admit to having trained Neo Nazi forces. Perhaps did not even know it! But the evidence is there.

Hi Occult

Canada has been peacekeepers forever as well as been in war not to mention global respect for their efforts. What you fail to accept is that the screening process for who gets what training is from the military of that country, yes in that part of the world there is always the potential for individuals that do not represent the country's interests and those numbers would be quite low if properly vetted. Unless there was a complete section of that military that was covertly operating that could influence the vetting process which is still the responsibility of that country.

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10 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

And now you see why is NATO making Putin so nervous. Because the evil gnome wants to invade countries which are now NATO members and force them back into zombie USSR. 

One more time, because you apparently didn't understand me yet: My country is in NATO. It is my choice and the choice of majority of my countrymen. When Ukraine enters NATO, it will be because it is the choice of their citizens. And it is so because Putin is murderous aggressor and we all need to stick together against him.  

So how do you think the United States would react if Canada or Mexico joined an Alliance with China or Russia?

How did you think Saudi Arabia reacted when the Iranian-backed Houthi rebels overthrew the official government in Yemen?

There is a sense of deep unease and great danger when your neighboring country with which you share borders suddenly risk becoming a launching pad for your geopolitical enemies.

Edited by Occult1
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Despite Russian claims of destroying the Ukranian airforce, from pics of the Ukranian counter attack it seems a Ukranian Su-24 was involved in the attack so Ukraine still has some airforce flying.  The fact that Russia has yet to do large scale bombing from planes suggest Ukranian anti-air capabilities are still a threat and are denying Russia air superiority.

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6 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

When Ukraine enters NATO, it will be because it is the choice of their citizens.

Unfortunately, I don't see Ukraine entering NATO agreements with Russian Tanks, Soldiers, Planes already on their soil.  Will NATO help them anyway...pffft...no.  What can NATO do...attack Russia?  Putin knows that isn't going to happen.  

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6 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Neo Nazi forces.

Are those attacking Ukraine.

Even the Holocaust Museum in Auschwitz agrees. Go check their twitter if you need some guidance on who's neo nazi today. 

 

Yes, Azov Battalion is using controversial symbol. It's not particularly hard to understand how and why, my country had the same problem. When so-called communists are attacking you, population automatically chooses the symbols that they perceive as the opposite. 

Greatest donor for Azov is Jewish, so is Ukrainian president. They would both know how to detect actual Nazis. 

 

So, you think Eastern Europeans are idiots and Jews are Nazis. Any more breakthroughs or you're done embarrassing yourself for today?  

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