Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?

[Occult1]

4 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Occult

Canada has been peacekeepers forever as well as been in war not to mention global respect for their efforts. What you fail to accept is that the screening process for who gets what training is from the military of that country, yes in that part of the world there is always the potential for individuals that do not represent the country's interests and those numbers would be quite low if properly vetted. Unless there was a complete section of that military that was covertly operating that could influence the vetting process which is still the responsibility of that country.

''Reached for comment, Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense stated that it does not screen those entering the military or military cadets for extremist views and ties. Meanwhile, several Western governments involved in training and arming Ukrainian troops stated, in response to the author’s request, that Ukraine is responsible for vetting Ukrainian soldiers trained by the West. None of the Western governments contacted—the US, Canada, the United Kingdom, and Germany—vet Ukrainian training recipients for extremist views and ties.''

From the report: https://www.illiberalism.org/far-right-group-made-its-home-in-ukraines-major-western-military-training-hub/

[Helen of Annoy]

2 minutes ago, joc said:

Unfortunately, I don't see Ukraine entering NATO agreements with Russian Tanks, Soldiers, Planes already on their soil.  Will NATO help them anyway...pffft...no.  What can NATO do...attack Russia?  Putin knows that isn't going to happen.  

NATO has to keep on delivering weapons to Ukraine. That's all. 

[Duke Wellington]

I have heard so far 10,000 Ukrainian soldiers dead and 500 Russians.

[Occult1]

3 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

NATO has to keep on delivering weapons to Ukraine. That's all. 

Why would NATO deliver weapons to Ukraine if they are not a NATO member? That seems odd.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Occult1

[+Nuclear Wessel]

2 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

I have heard so far 10,000 Ukrainian soldiers dead and 500 Russians.

Source? 

[Helen of Annoy]

5 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

So how do you think the United States would react if Canada or Mexico joined an Alliance with China or Russia?

How did you think Saudi Arabia reacted when the Iranian-backed Houthi rebels overthrew the official government in Yemen?

There is a sense of deep unease and great danger when your neighboring country with which you share borders suddenly risk becoming a launching pad for your geopolitical enemies.

Why don't you invent irrelevant imaginary situations in attempt to hide the fact that Putler is nervous because Putler wants to kill and plunder without resistance? 

There is a sense of deep unease, you bet there is, when Putler alludes to use of nuclear ****ing weapons. 

But it's actually great that he keeps doing that, since it shows he knows he can't in fact win in conventional conflict. tee-hee, loser. 

[Helen of Annoy]

2 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Source? 

Putler's disinfo trolling material. 

[DarkHunter]

5 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

I have heard so far 10,000 Ukrainian soldiers dead and 500 Russians.

Considering 600+ Russians were lost at the airport near Kiev those numbers are definitely wrong, seems like they are from a Russian government source.

[Helen of Annoy]

3 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Why would NATO deliver weapons to Ukraine if they are not a NATO member? That seems odd.

Because they will be a NATO member as soon as Putler's forces are driven out of independent, sovereign, NATO-aspiring, EUropean Ukraine. That's why. 

If he didn't invade, maybe that process would be slowed down. Now it's at hypersonic speed. 

Also, because it's strategically prudent to arm Ukraine to the teeth. 

[+joc]

7 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

I have heard so far 10,000 Ukrainian soldiers dead and 500 Russians.

I speak for myself when I say...Nobody cares what you heard and nobody cares about your fearmongering Revelation Apocolyse BS either.  Go play somewhere else.

[Occult1]

Just now, Helen of Annoy said:

Because they will be a NATO member as soon as Putler's forces are driven out of independent, sovereign, NATO-aspiring, EUropean Ukraine. That's why. 

If he didn't invade, maybe that process would be slowed down. Now it's at hypersonic speed. 

Also, because it's strategically prudent to arm Ukraine to the teeth. 

But Ukraine is not officially a NATO member. So why would NATO intervene in this conflict?

[+joc]

10 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

NATO has to keep on delivering weapons to Ukraine. That's all. 

I doesn't really matter how many weapons they have.  I am so sorry this is happening...but it is and I don't think for a moment Ukraine is going to 'not lose' this in a majorly big way.  All you have to do is look back on history.  It's what the Russians do.  Take half of Germany...Take Poland...Take Take Take.  All they did really was step out of the way of a collapsing Soviet Union...so...they rebuilt...they rethought...they retooled...and now they are doing the same damn thing again they have always done...Take...Take...Take!  And where is the friendly, modern Democracy everyone told me Russia had become?  Right...

So Helen...the other problem with all of this...the real major problem with all of this...is the fact that Russia has NOT changed.  They will kill until they win.  And they are really good at it.  My heart breaks for the people in the Ukraine.  And I am with you as well in your thinking that this is not going to just end in Ukraine.  What does it matter if NATO is there to protect you if you are starving.  This is the beginning of a long anticipated (by Russia) campaign to reEstablish themselves as a major player on the Global Chess Board.  

Then again I could just be flat out wrong.  

[Helen of Annoy]

6 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

But Ukraine is not officially a NATO member. So why would NATO intervene in this conflict?

NATO is not intervening and has no plans to do so.

NATO is merely donating weapons to Ukraine, which is under attack of expansionist, imperialist Russia. It's an ethical imperative. 

 

I'm done with stupid questions for today, I'll drop by tomorrow. Go ask your supervisor to give you the top notch material, this **** is offensively weak. 

[Helen of Annoy]

7 minutes ago, joc said:

I doesn't really matter how many weapons they have.  I am so sorry this is happening...but it is and I don't think for a moment Ukraine is going to 'not lose' this in a majorly big way.  All you have to do is look back on history.  It's what the Russians do.  Take half of Germany...Take Poland...Take Take Take.  All they did really was step out of the way of a collapsing Soviet Union...so...they rebuilt...they rethought...they retooled...and now they are doing the same damn thing again they have always done...Take...Take...Take!  And where is the friendly, modern Democracy everyone told me Russia had become?  Right...

So Helen...the other problem with all of this...the real major problem with all of this...is the fact that Russia has NOT changed.  They will kill until they win.  And they are really good at it.  My heart breaks for the people in the Ukraine.  And I am with you as well in your thinking that this is not going to just end in Ukraine.  What does it matter if NATO is there to protect you if you are starving.  This is the beginning of a long anticipated (by Russia) campaign to reEstablish themselves as a major player on the Global Chess Board.  

Then again I could just be flat out wrong.  

Russia has changed and it will change again. Putin is not Russia. 

This will be hard and it will seem like it's never going to end. But it will end. There's one single thing Kremlin said right and that is that this is not the beginning, but the end of war. 

[DarkHunter]

A Russian offensive at Okhtyra, near Sumy, was stopped.  According to Ukrainian sources the Russians fled after sustaining significant casualties.

There are pictures but not sure how mods feel about links to pics that show dead bodies and not just destroyed vehicles.

Edited February 24, 2022 by DarkHunter

[Tatetopa]

15 minutes ago, joc said:

I doesn't really matter how many weapons they have.  I am so sorry this is happening...but it is and I don't think for a moment Ukraine is going to 'not lose' this in a majorly big way. 

They knew that going in.  Ukrainian stated strategy was to offer some resistance then fade away to fight a guerilla campaign.   I think it has some parallels to the Russian engagement in Afghanistan.  We did not fight the Russians directly but supplied the mujahedeen with stinger missiles and other hardware.  That might have bitten us long term, bu tit helped convince th eRussians it was too costly to stay.

[Occult1]

15 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

NATO is not intervening and has no plans to do so.

NATO is merely donating weapons to Ukraine, which is under attack of expansionist, imperialist Russia. It's an ethical imperative.

There is no 'ethical imperative'. NATO isn't some kind of justice league. It's a defense Alliance between some countries. Ukraine isn't a member.

So, unless NATO has plans of expansion in Ukraine, why would they be ''donating weapons'' or intervening in any way?

Edited February 24, 2022 by Occult1

[DarkHunter]

1 minute ago, Occult1 said:

There is no 'moral imperative'. NATO isn't some kind of justice league. It's a defense Alliance between some countries. Ukraine isn't a member.

So, unless NATO has plan of expansion in Ukraine why would they be ''donating weapons'' or intervening in any way?

It's not about moral imperative, Russia is a threat to multiple NATO member, this is a good way to bleed them out and destroy important military equipment.  That is if one is taking an extremely utilitarian approach to arming Ukraine.

[TrumanB]

I believe that joc is the most realistic person here. There is no much that anyone can directly do to break Putin. It seems that they are in deal with China and that they can at least partly divert Russian economy in that direction. Still, on the long run this is too big to be forgotten and Russia will face consequences somehow. I believe that many Russians do not support this but the question is if there is strength to knock down Putin from the inside. 
On the other hand Putin is aging but but that is not of an avail at the moment.

[Occult1]

5 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

It's not about moral imperative, Russia is a threat to multiple NATO member, this is a good way to bleed them out and destroy important military equipment.  That is if one is taking an extremely utilitarian approach to arming Ukraine.

Unless a NATO member is victim of an armed attack, Article 5 for collective defense cannot be invoked.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Occult1

[DarkHunter]

7 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Unless a NATO member is victim of an armed attack, Article 5 for collective defense cannot be invoked.

But you were saying why would NATO arm a country that wasnt in NATO, you said nothing about article 5.  Very interesting that you keep pivoting from your previous statements and parrot propaganda pieces.

[+and-then]

3 hours ago, Occult1 said:

It will no longer be a geopolitical threat to Russia.

Do you really believe the Ukranian military was capable of invading your buds in Moscow?  Do you believe they'd launch such an attempt while 200K forces were staged on 3 sides of their borders?  There is ONE aggressor here and the world is quite aware of who that is.  The question is, what will be done.

[Grey Area]

2 hours ago, Occult1 said:

I'm from the West. That doesn't mean I shouldn't have a balanced, objective view about the whole thing.

Well good luck with your balanced view, it’s yours to have.

As for the Nazi stuff, there may well be elements within the Ukraine that are far right.

Does that legitimise Putin’s cause?  Do these far right elements pose a significant threat to Russia itself?  Or are they one of numerous excuses for Putin’s Crusade?

Like I say, no sane person likes a Nazi, invading Ukraine is not the answer, and Putin created these antagonists himself back in 2014.  

[Guest Xetan]

1 hour ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Source? 

Russian Times.

[DarkHunter]

Mobile crematoriums have been spotted in the rear/staging areas of the Russian lines.  Seems like Putin isnt planning on sending bodies back to Russia.  Cant imagine that a mobile crematorium would be good for troop moral.