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Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?


Grim Reaper 6
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17 hours ago, Jon the frog said:

I didn't talk about alliance or not... or choosing or not, I talk about political decisions and the reactions that will follow... if i choose to have weapons on my territory pointing at an opponent, that opponent will react. For example, If China would put weapon system and base all arround the DMZ and at the east in North Korea, I'm pretty sure that South Korea would mass his army at the border and menacing to go in and take North Korea. Would they be the bullies and bad boys ?

If you cannot comprehend that, it's why that situation is occuring right now. Russia reacted, why they would not ?

You think they would just put tail down and turn their back ? NATO is knocking at the door saying ''Hi, we will cover half your territory with weapons to block you so shut-up and be a puppy ?'' NATO and Russia are playing chicken right now on the back of Ukraine and it's quite bad for them. Whatever they do they will be screwed for a while right now.

 

This situation is not occurring because poor honest Putin was faced with NATO aggression. That's his bullcrap of misinterpretation.

This is not "Russia reacting to", this is Russian aggression against Ukraine.

This situation is occurring because he's trying to occupy neighbouring countries and extort limiting and even shrinking of NATO. And he got the opposite effect, as anyone sane could predict. NATO weapons keep pouring in Ukraine and Eastern Europe and it's directly and only because Putin requested it. 

If Putin wasn't trying to attack neighbouring countries, there would be no reason for him to be nervous just because neighbouring countries are NATO members. 

Because even Russian military top thinks NATO is not a threat to Russia. NATO won't shoot first. No reason to worry unless you're about to shoot first. And if you do shoot first, serve you right. No one sane will sit calmly down while they are being attacked.  

That imaginary threat Putin feels is ideological anachronism, it has zero rational value today. 

 

When you say Putin's anachronic ideological paranoia is justified, or should be accepted as rational fact to work with, it clearly leads into conclusion that confrontation is the result of me having my right to enter alliances as I see fit. 

The reality is the opposite. 

Because Putin is breaking laws and agreements, it's necessary for all Russia's neighbours, all Europe and any part of the world that might be exposed to any of the methods he's using, to be part of an alliance that will help them fight against his expansionist aggression.  

 

The West is faulty. Sure it is. But that, what Putin is trying to infect the world with, yet again, is deadly. 

 

 

There are some movements that can be interpreted as withdrawal away from Ukrainian border, and in that context Putin was praised by his regime media for "humiliating and annihilating the West without a single shot fired". 

It's ridiculous propaganda sucking up of North Korean proportions. It's supposed to explain why there's no invasion - the West was annihilated no less :lol: 

While in reality the threat of sanctions was convincing, and so was the NATO logistics. 

Such hilarious, blatant, retarded propaganda is a nice example why anyone who's got any idea of the USSR, Warsaw pact, or history in general, is very annoyed with attempts to find "objective" excuses for Putin's reckless aggression. 

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If Ukraine falls Poland will fall, Slowakia, Czech Republic, Hungary (well, Orban is Putin's player anyway), Romania...Baltics and of course with Serbia's help, the Balkans. The west, Europe and Nato have an obligation and interrest to defend Ukraine. Otherwise...

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Russian news was reporting earlier today how a large terror attack targeting civilians in Luhansk was stopped.  Also not too long ago a large DDoS targeting the two largest Ukranian banks along with the ministry of defense and armed force websites.

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12 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Russian news was reporting earlier today how a large terror attack targeting civilians in Luhansk was stopped.  Also not too long ago a large DDoS targeting the two largest Ukranian banks along with the ministry of defense and armed force websites.

There was also several ceasefire violations yesterday.

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Russian forces have started retreating.

They are scared of us Anglo-Saxons and chickened out lol.

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39 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

Russian forces have started retreating.

They are scared of us Anglo-Saxons and chickened out lol.

Isn't the consensus that there's no evidence of the troops actually returning to base?

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1 hour ago, odas said:

If Ukraine falls Poland will fall, Slowakia, Czech Republic, Hungary (well, Orban is Putin's player anyway), Romania...Baltics and of course with Serbia's help, the Balkans. The west, Europe and Nato have an obligation and interrest to defend Ukraine. Otherwise...

Orban asked Trump to visit Hungary and boost his chances for re-election :lol: Seriously. 

Putin, in press conference with Scholz, ranted about NATO starting the war in ex-Yu and bombing Beograd. The funny thing is that this time, it won't take 8 years of Serbia bombing everyone else before they're bombed back.  

Putin also accused Ukraine of genocide. (While Holodomor was not genocide in official Russian opinion. Just to remind those who want to understand Putin, like, objectively, how objective that guy is.)  

 

Yes, it is in the interest of the West to defend Ukraine. But that's also in the interest of Russian people. Kleptocracy is ruining their land and they are now in danger to have their young men killed in brother-murdering war. 

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14 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Isn't the consensus that there's no evidence of the troops actually returning to base?

There's no evidence yet. And no one is mentioning what's going on on the Black Sea. Where are those landing ships now, that went through Bosporus the other day and such. 

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49 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Isn't the consensus that there's no evidence of the troops actually returning to base?

Some troops have left Belarus but instead of returning to their bases it seems they went to the recently emptied staging areas around Ukraine.  Also one battalion tactical group that was in the southern area of crimea seems to be returning to its main base.  Should be mentioned that while that one is leaving 14 more battalion tactical groups are on their way to Ukraine.

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35 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

There's no evidence yet. And no one is mentioning what's going on on the Black Sea. Where are those landing ships now, that went through Bosporus the other day and such. 

The ships docked at Sevastopol but yesterday it seems every Russian warship, about 40 in total, left their ports.  About a week or so again Russia announced snap naval exercises throughout the Black sea.

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4 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

This situation is not occurring because poor honest Putin was faced with NATO aggression. That's his bullcrap of misinterpretation.

This is not "Russia reacting to", this is Russian aggression against Ukraine.

This situation is occurring because he's trying to occupy neighbouring countries and extort limiting and even shrinking of NATO. And he got the opposite effect, as anyone sane could predict. NATO weapons keep pouring in Ukraine and Eastern Europe and it's directly and only because Putin requested it. 

If Putin wasn't trying to attack neighbouring countries, there would be no reason for him to be nervous just because neighbouring countries are NATO members. 

Because even Russian military top thinks NATO is not a threat to Russia. NATO won't shoot first. No reason to worry unless you're about to shoot first. And if you do shoot first, serve you right. No one sane will sit calmly down while they are being attacked.  

That imaginary threat Putin feels is ideological anachronism, it has zero rational value today. 

 

When you say Putin's anachronic ideological paranoia is justified, or should be accepted as rational fact to work with, it clearly leads into conclusion that confrontation is the result of me having my right to enter alliances as I see fit. 

The reality is the opposite. 

Because Putin is breaking laws and agreements, it's necessary for all Russia's neighbours, all Europe and any part of the world that might be exposed to any of the methods he's using, to be part of an alliance that will help them fight against his expansionist aggression.  

 

The West is faulty. Sure it is. But that, what Putin is trying to infect the world with, yet again, is deadly. 

 

 

There are some movements that can be interpreted as withdrawal away from Ukrainian border, and in that context Putin was praised by his regime media for "humiliating and annihilating the West without a single shot fired". 

It's ridiculous propaganda sucking up of North Korean proportions. It's supposed to explain why there's no invasion - the West was annihilated no less :lol: 

While in reality the threat of sanctions was convincing, and so was the NATO logistics. 

Such hilarious, blatant, retarded propaganda is a nice example why anyone who's got any idea of the USSR, Warsaw pact, or history in general, is very annoyed with attempts to find "objective" excuses for Putin's reckless aggression. 

I never talked about Nato aggression ? I talk about political strategical decisions that make other country reacts. Do you think that the mass Russian buildup didn't make other country react or the supporting of the separatist ? Just a new pipeline to Europe make country reacts... A decision give reaction from one side or the others. Ukraine chose Nato, Russia muscle flex... maybe not a clever choice but Putin need a macho showing...crossing fiingers that it end like that.

I know that you hate Putin, dislike Russia. I'm not found of Putin after is two first term. He's an encroaching problem.   Russia gaining back is footing in his first term after Yeltsin left, was not bad but after that he run in a dirty poll wavering oligarchy.

Ukraine have all is right to choose Nato, still it will occur a reaction... it was blatenly previsible. It can make you angry and it's all your right, it can make a lot of Nato member angry and it's their rights. Politcal decisions are making reactions...

What will happen from that reaction is what we will see in the next weeks. Paranoiac rumbling from Russia and bravado from Putin resulting at nothing  ? Maybe some diplomatic solution to help the situation ? War ? We will see. 

Sure that propaganda will roar from boat sides to be sure to look good at home.  NB: both side is not including Ukraine, they have more or less nothing to do with the scale of these events beside allowing Nato at home who could be a good long term choice if it settle with diplomatics moves.

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1 hour ago, DarkHunter said:

Some troops have left Belarus but instead of returning to their bases it seems they went to the recently emptied staging areas around Ukraine.  Also one battalion tactical group that was in the southern area of crimea seems to be returning to its main base.  Should be mentioned that while that one is leaving 14 more battalion tactical groups are on their way to Ukraine.

Biden just reiterated that there is no evidence that Russia has de-escalated, or intends to.

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3 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

They are scared of us Anglo-Saxons and chickened out lol.

I can see where they would be.  If the Russians lost, the Anglo-Saxons might come in and do to their economy what they have done in the UK.   That would dash any future hope of Russian empire.

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1 hour ago, Jon the frog said:

I never talked about Nato aggression ? I talk about political strategical decisions that make other country reacts. Do you think that the mass Russian buildup didn't make other country react or the supporting of the separatist ? A decision give reaction from one side or the others. Ukraine chose Nato, Russia muscle flex... maybe not a clever choice but Putin need a macho showing...crossing fiingers that it end like that.

I know that you hate Putin, dislike Russia. I'm not found of Putin after is two first term. He's an encroaching problem.   Russia gaining back is footing in his first term after Yeltsin left, was not bad but after that he run in a dirty poll wavering oligarchy.

Ukraine have all is right to choose Nato, still it will occur a reaction... it was blatenly previsible. It can make you angry and it's all your right, it can make a lot of Nato member angry and it's their rights. Politcal decisions are making reactions...

What will happen from that reaction is what we will see in the next weeks. Paranoiac rumbling from Russia and bravado from Putin resulting at nothing  ? Maybe some diplomatic solution to help the situation ? War ? We will see. 

Sure that propaganda will roar from boat sides to be sure to look good at home.  NB: both side is not including Ukraine, they have more or less nothing to do with the scale of these events beside allowing Nato at home who could be a good long term choice if it settle with diplomatics moves.

That, what you think you can call a "political strategical decision", is an expansionist aggression against Ukraine, an act of shameless imperialist stupidity, with Putin illegally occupying parts of independent, sovereign Ukraine, disregarding all treaties, laws, good taste and common sense, that is causing deaths, disabilities and damage since it started, daily. 

That "strategy" consists of wasting both Russian and Ukrainian lives, so that the oligarch can feel somewhat less insecure. 

An oligarch, comrade, wake up and notice it's an oligarch. With imperialist ambitions. People keep dying because he's got imperialist urges. 

 

I said in the first sentence of this post that it's "Putin" attacking Ukraine, not Russia, because Putin is not Russia.  

It ticks me off royally when you stereotype me and offend me with saying I dislike Russia. If I disliked Russia, I wouldn't particularly care what ersatz-tsar is doing to them.

So when you're too objective, it looks to me like you don't care if Russians are robbed, silenced and now also in danger of dying in totally needless war. As long as excusing Putin gives you a chance to spite your own society a little. The same society that makes sure you've got technology, free time and freedom to criticize it. 

It's true that people don't know what they've got until they lose it. 

Eastern Europe lost it, in blood up to the knees, people lived in fear and poverty for decades. Then started regaining it and now they should voluntarily go back into gulag so they don't provoke strategical decisions?  

You can't understand the horror of that, what you think is objective. So you're excused. But I'd appreciate if you'd rethink a little your stance, because to be honest, no, it's not objective at all. 

Ukrainian president recently repeated that it is the will of Ukrainian people to join NATO and the EU. It is their right to join whichever alliances they want. If they chose to renew USSR with Russia, that would be their right too. But, imagine that, they are willing to die in order to avoid resurrection of USSR. 

No, it's not because they were hypnotized with the West. It's because people who remember life in USSR are still alive and their children were told the truth. Their determination to defend themselves from the "good" old times can only be underestimated.  

 

Sorry for the long rant. It was my strategical political decision that you deserve it. 

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According to various sources the Russians seem to be breaking down their camps and moving to the border of Ukraine.  More artillery seems to be moving to firing positions.  Interestingly it's almost midnight in Ukraine and these movements were picked up about 45 minutes ago.

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40 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Sorry for the long rant.

I'n not against what you say at all, don't know why are you ranting that much... Ukraine have the right to choose, it's their choice. I'm quite sad that all of that is happening for the past 8 years in Ukraine. But choosing a political path produce reactions... I never quantified these reactions or labelled them. If they where bad, worse, insane ot worse, but you do and i'm not against what you say about them.

You can continue to rant against me if you like.  I don't have expressed spite against my society and i'm not excusing Putin for that escalation. Thank you for the free insinuations so we are even ?

I have nothing against Ukraine or Russian peoples, they have nothing to do about that situation and i see that situation as a needless war.  I just said that if you induce change that are against others it's inevitable that reaction would occur. Statut-quo is not always an option and situation need to evolve but damn, it will provoke things and induce reactions, you cannot denied that ? 

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All Ukranian forces have been put on combat readiness, all vacations cancelled, brigades being deployed to major cities.  Also hearing rumors a new cyber attack has started, seems the Ukranian security website is down, not clear if it's part of an attack or a technical issue yet.

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4 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Sorry for the long rant. It was my strategical political decision that you deserve it. 

:lol:

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19 hours ago, Jon the frog said:

I'n not against what you say at all, don't know why are you ranting that much... Ukraine have the right to choose, it's their choice. I'm quite sad that all of that is happening for the past 8 years in Ukraine. But choosing a political path produce reactions... I never quantified these reactions or labelled them. If they where bad, worse, insane ot worse, but you do and i'm not against what you say about them.

You can continue to rant against me if you like.  I don't have expressed spite against my society and i'm not excusing Putin for that escalation. Thank you for the free insinuations so we are even ?

I have nothing against Ukraine or Russian peoples, they have nothing to do about that situation and i see that situation as a needless war.  I just said that if you induce change that are against others it's inevitable that reaction would occur. Statut-quo is not always an option and situation need to evolve but damn, it will provoke things and induce reactions, you cannot denied that ? 

I hate any attempts to make victims believe it's their fault they've been attacked.  

I apologize for it wasn't your intent to achieve such effect, but I won't apologize for insisting that you understand what are the implications of your incorrect assumption that Putin actually has something legal and ethically acceptable to defend. 

 

The rant that follows is not directed against you. It is my venting hour. 

The false equivalency between Ukraine and Putin's position (while it's clear Putin is the aggressor in Ukraine), the West and Putin (while it's clear NATO has zero intent of attacking Russia), implying that his aggression can be explained as something natural no less, aims to create false narrative where it's unclear who is right and who's wrong, at least, or at worst, that Ukraine is wrong for resisting.

And that's the implication that makes me breath fire, that Ukraine should stop resisting. 

NO. Big as a house.

Ukraine is not wrong for resisting. They won't stop resisting. Ever. 

Putin needed that disgusting assumption of Ukrainian guilt for provoking him slipped into minds of unsuspecting people while he thought he can make occupation of Ukraine happen undisturbed by the West, by manipulating and bullying.      

He's a textbook bully. Bombastic propaganda, outrageous claims, threatening, even with nuclear ****ing weapons, extorting, strutting around, then claiming he's was only joking when he notices he's about to get the reaction opposite of expected.

I'm laughing all right. But I'm laughing at bizarre attempts of his propaganda machine to hide the fact that he realized he's about to break his teeth on Ukraine. 

He expected the West to cave in, Ukraine isolated and without help, he expected his trolls and bought politicians in the West to spread panic and demand surrender both of the West and Ukraine before he throws the first nuke. Yeah, right. He was wrong, just like he was wrong when he believed in own propaganda and thought he can topple governments just like that. 

Not only he can't manipulate the West into dissolution, but his attempts are now clear, his assets known, and the West aware of the importance of unity and coordination among allies. 

He was not attacked. Russia was not attacked. Russia could live just nicely from trade with the EU, if only their oligarchs were sane enough to notice they would be much safer if they'd let some crumbs to the people too.   

Instead of letting some crumbs to the impoverished again people and thanking god for steady source of income from the EU, what did he do? Renew the USSR, of course, be young again, build the ****ing wall again, start the tanks. But he's old and so are his tanks and tricks. 

All right, I'm done.

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Jens Stoltenberg, secretary general of NATO, said today that there's reason for cautious optimism. 

"Optimism" sounds nicely optimistic :D but the accent is on the word "cautious" I believe. 

 

From Putin's administration's attempts at humour (give us the next invasion dates so we can plan our vacations accordingly), I'd say Putin's very p***ed off because his "exercise" had the result opposite of the one he hoped for.

As long as the possibility of Russian invasion is taken seriously, it won't happen. 

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39 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Jens Stoltenberg, secretary general of NATO, said today that there's reason for cautious optimism. 

"Optimism" sounds nicely optimistic :D but the accent is on the word "cautious" I believe. 

 

From Putin's administration's attempts at humour (give us the next invasion dates so we can plan our vacations accordingly), I'd say Putin's very p***ed off because his "exercise" had the result opposite of the one he hoped for.

As long as the possibility of Russian invasion is taken seriously, it won't happen. 

Well they had to make humour at it.

Backing down because they are scared of mighty Britain, trembling in their boots, fearful that we would come and kick butt!!!

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1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:

Well they had to make humour at it.

Backing down because they are scared of mighty Britain, trembling in their boots, fearful that we would come and kick butt!!!

Well, truth be told, Liz Truss made Lavrov throw his hands up in the air and leave the conference stage :lol: 

Send Liz to Donbas. Not to Crimea, mind you, there's only one bridge people can use for escape. 

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UK media (how reliable the stories are I dont know) are reporting that Russia sent a handful home but have sent even more back.

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Word on the street is that forces are still building up. 

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Along with the cyber attacks we're beginning to see increased artillery and other indirect fire from the Russian-Rebel areas.  The Ukrainian military can't respond without giving Vlad's generals the pretext they want.

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