Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?

[+Nuclear Wessel]

1 hour ago, Knob Oddy said:

Well done mate. It takes a bigger person to change their mind when presented with evidence, rather than dig in your heels and double down on your position. 

Nato expansion towards Russia was always a serious threat. This guys analysis from 7 years ago sounds like it could have been written this year its so pertinent.

I am willing to consider all sides of the argument, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that I fully agree with every point that is being made. Do I think that NATO expansion, eastward, fuelled the flames of Russia? Yes, but not because NATO was intentionally pushed eastwards by the US - I think it was merely a byproduct of increased Russian aggression, towards which the Baltic states felt unsafe… and for good reason.

The more I read about it, the more I am convinced that my suspicion has been correct all along - NATO expansion has been used by Russia to attempt to justify Putin’s long-term goal of re-unifying Soviet states into a conglomerate. Why do you think he is eyeballing Lithuania, and even drafted a bill that is questioning Lithuania’s status as a sovereign NATO state? Why do you think he wanted guarantees that Ukraine would not join NATO?

All of these points of justification that Russia is perpetuating are just smoke and mirrors for the real crux of the issue, which is that he wants to resurrect the Soviet Union.

I also think that he is gambling on the idea that his war of attrition against Ukraine will essentially cause aid fatigue in Western nations, but I think he underestimated NATO resolve in the matter. Realistically, I do think that Russia will make and hold some short-term territorial gains, but that will not be sustainable. The soldiers occupying these territories will require food, medical supplies, etc, and we know that these resources are not infinite, and will become even more difficult to provide due to the harsh economic sanctions, whereas Ukraine will continue to receive aid packages from Western nations indefinitely.

As an aside, I think that, eventually, NATO is going to get dragged into the armed conflict, and I think that it is going to have something to do with Poland, or Lithuania.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Nuclear Wessel

[Helen of Annoy]

And this is the reason for the latest pro-Russian keyboard offensive. But Putler's growing short of bots and trolls too. Who knows why  

 

[Knob Oddy]

3 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Got it. So you believe Putin invasion is justified.

All those deaths are on your hands then. You should reconsider your morals when your threshold for invasion being justified is so low. 

Just add it to all the transgender suicides I've caused and my body count must be up there with Stalin...

Well at least more than the Clinton's have killed.

"Justified" is probably the best word, rather than "is right". He can literally point to papers showing his justification. Minsk agreement, 1991 Ukrainian independence agreement, all these things give some kind of justification.

Ideally you would take these things to an international court or the UN to get resolution

[Trelane]

1 minute ago, Knob Oddy said:

Just add it to all the transgender suicides I've caused and my body count must be up there with Stalin...

Well at least more than the Clinton's have killed.

"Justified" is probably the best word, rather than "is right". He can literally point to papers showing his justification. Minsk agreement, 1991 Ukrainian independence agreement, all these things give some kind of justification.

Ideally you would take these things to an international court or the UN to get resolution

Those first two comments provide a lot of insight into how you think and are positioned. Interesting.

[Knob Oddy]

3 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

I am willing to consider all sides of the argument, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that I fully agree with every point that is being made. Do I think that NATO expansion, eastward, fuelled the flames of Russia? Yes, but not because NATO was intentionally pushed eastwards by the US - I think it was merely a byproduct of increased Russian aggression, towards which the Baltic states felt unsafe… and for good reason.

The more I read about it, the more I am convinced that my suspicion has been correct all along - NATO expansion has been used by Russia to attempt to justify Putin’s long-term goal of re-unifying Soviet states into a conglomerate. Why do you think he is eyeballing Lithuania, and even drafted a bill that is questioning Lithuania’s status as a sovereign NATO state? Why do you think he wanted guarantees that Ukraine would not join NATO?

All of these points of justification that Russia is perpetuating are just smoke and mirrors for the real crux of the issue, which is that he wants to resurrect the Soviet Union.

My understanding of the Lithuania situation is that Lithuanian authorities are stopping russian vehicles traveling to Kaliningrad.

Russia sees that as picking a side

[spartan max2]

3 minutes ago, Knob Oddy said:

Just add it to all the transgender suicides I've caused and my body count must be up there with Stalin...

Well at least more than the Clinton's have killed.

"Justified" is probably the best word, rather than "is right". He can literally point to papers showing his justification. Minsk agreement, 1991 Ukrainian independence agreement, all these things give some kind of justification.

Ideally you would take these things to an international court or the UN to get resolution

Why are the Putin apologist always the same people who are obsessed with trans people.

Tf is wrong with you guys.

[Knob Oddy]

1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

Why are the Putin apologist always the same people who are obsessed with trans people.

Tf is wrong with you guys.

I'm just saying it's not the first time you accuse me of "having blood on my hands" or however you want to put it.

It's a common tactic of yours to blame me (of all people) for deaths caused by others

[Helen of Annoy]

4 minutes ago, Knob Oddy said:

My understanding of the Lithuania situation is that Lithuanian authorities are stopping russian vehicles traveling to Kaliningrad.

Russia sees that as picking a side

Lithuania had picked the side 30+ years ago. 

Lithuania is in the EU and NATO. They are applying sanctions, as they should. 

 

edit to add: To express my WTF... "picking sides"... W in the actual F? 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Helen of Annoy

[spartan max2]

3 minutes ago, Knob Oddy said:

I'm just saying it's not the first time you accuse me of "having blood on my hands" or however you want to put it.

It's a common tactic of yours to blame me (of all people) for deaths caused by others

If you believe Putin's invasion is justified, than you believe the deaths are justified.

Edit: I also don't recognize your account. So unless you're being a sock puppet I really don't know when I would of accused you of blood on your hands before. 

Edited June 26, 2022 by spartan max2

[Knob Oddy]

8 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

 

All of these points of justification that Russia is perpetuating are just smoke and mirrors for the real crux of the issue, which is that he wants to resurrect the Soviet Union.

In the first 30mins of the video you posted, the lecturer talks about what would finish Russia off. He said that if you wanted to destroy Russia you would encourage them to expand their territory to the former USSR. The attempt would be disasterous.

The lecturer states that is not Russias goal at all. It's all about buffer states. Ukriane and Georgia

[Helen of Annoy]

*blinks in disbelief*

We're very lucky they're so... ahem-ahem. 

 

[Knob Oddy]

2 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

If you believe Putin's invasion is justified, than you believe the deaths are justified.

Oh my sweet summer child.

When someone breaches a contract, should there be consequences? 

Why don't you go poke a bear with a stick and then tell it it's not justified to be angry at you. I'm sure you'll be safe with your virtue signals

[spartan max2]

Just now, Knob Oddy said:

Oh my sweet summer child.

When someone breaches a contract, should there be consequences? 

Why don't you go poke a bear with a stick and then tell it it's not justified to be angry at you. I'm sure you'll be safe with your virtue signals

See. You agree that all the massacred Ukrainians by Russia are justified. 

You're a bad person. 

[Helen of Annoy]

It's typical excuse of all aggressive criminals, from domestic violence perpetrators to genocidal dictators: 

See what you made me do to you?  

 

Russia is attacking Ukraine, breaking conventions, committing atrocities. But it must be someone else's fault, according to Russia, the perpetrator of invasion, war crimes and crimes against humanity. 

Up to Feb 24th, it was possible to search for more or less stupid excuses for Russia, because maybe they can be brought to reason if they're given a chance. 

They used that chance to orchestrate the worst war in Europe since WWII. 

After Feb 24th, any excuse-maker for Russia should die of shame. But they've got no shame.  

Edited June 26, 2022 by Helen of Annoy

[Helen of Annoy]

Russians are ethnically cleansing Crimea. 

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3515721-about-30000-crimean-tatars-have-fled-peninsula-since-2014.html

Since 2014, about 30,000 Crimean Tatars have been forced to leave the temporarily occupied Crimea.

[godnodog]

14 minutes ago, Knob Oddy said:

My understanding of the Lithuania situation is that Lithuanian authorities are stopping russian vehicles traveling to Kaliningrad.

Russia sees that as picking a side

 

Lithuania is not stopping russian vehicles from passing. Vehicles from Russia transporting certain materials, for example metals, are not allowed passing due to EU wide sanctions, not Lithuania specific sanction. People and food are still allowed.

Russia can claim all they want, the reality is they have no international legal basis.

Russia is considering revoke Lithuania independence decree, they can, and Portugal can revoke Brazil independence as well, at the end of the day these are sovereign nations. Ucranians are also threatening older decrees giving Moscow a certain status, do you think it's something "real"?

[Helen of Annoy]

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3515712-russians-have-launched-about-500-strikes-on-civilian-infrastructure-this-week.html

The army of the Russian Federation has launched about 500 strikes on the Ukrainian civilian infrastructure this week.

...

Russia commits 100-200 war crimes every day, the Prosecutor General stressed.

- end of quote - 

 

This is what shameless Putlerians wish they could excuse.  

 

 

[+Nuclear Wessel]

39 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

That is why he is a threat to Europe existence.

FTFY

[Knob Oddy]

12 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

See. You agree that all the massacred Ukrainians by Russia are justified. 

You're a bad person. 

The video wessel posted at the 43min mark just before questions covers this point clearly.

He says he gets grief for giving his presentation in the west for being an apologist. However he says that a "neutral" Ukraine would be best for not only Ukrainians but for the world. He says that the west insisting on EU and Nato membership is forcing Ukraine to take an "agressive" stance towards Russia.

Insisting on EU and Nato has lead to these deaths. It was an entirely predictable outcome when considering the geopolitics of the area.

Why would you encourage an action you knew would lead to a war?

[Helen of Annoy]

Reznikov, may your words travel swiftly from your lips straight into the ears of God.

 

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3515770-reznikov-deployment-of-air-defense-systems-in-ukraine-should-be-part-of-natos-strategy.html

“Once again, the russian terrorists have committed war crimes: missile strikes against a number of peaceful Ukrainian cities. The insidious nature of those attacks is underscored by the fact that they are made either from the depth of russian federation, from the territory of Belarus or from the waters of the Caspian and Black Seas. This is a strategic challenge for the security of the entire Europe. A swift response to this challenge should consist of two parts,” Minister of Defense of Ukraine Oleksii Reznikov posted on Facebook.

As noted, the first part is the strengthening of sanctions. “It is necessary so that russia could not manufacture and maintain high-tech weapons, which currently contain many components supplied by NATO countries.”

The second part, according to Reznikov, is the rapid deployment of an effective air and missile defence systems in Ukraine.

 

[Grey Area]

1 hour ago, Knob Oddy said:

And if Canada decided to join the Warsaw pact in 1965? Would that have been a threat to the US?

I think the Cuban missle crisis proved the point.

But "an independent nation joining an alliance is not justification....." 

One rule for you, one for Russia 

But it’s not 1965, and Ukraine was nowhere close to becoming a NATO member, because let’s be honest, if Ukraine was a serious contender for a NATO membership, Putin would never have invaded.

The irony is, Ukraine is now closer than ever before to NATO, EU and UN membership.

[Helen of Annoy]

  Congratulations, putlerians. What a model soldier you've got there. 

(It's just too funny to be true, but one can hope it is true  After all, that's Ruzzia... it might as well be true.)

 

Source: Daily Star. It doesn't want to be linked.

  

An obese Russian retired general has been sent to fight on the frontlines in Eastern Ukraine because Vladimir Putin is running out of senior officers.

The 20 stone general, 67, is now said to be in charge of Russian special forces operating in the region after the unit’s former commander was seriously injured in an artillery strike.

...

A senior intelligence source last night told the Daily Star Sunday: “Putin is now scraping the barrel.

“Most of his best and battle-hardened senior commanders have been killed or injured fighting in Ukraine so he is resorting to sending second rate officers to the front who don’t last very long.

...

He is understood to require five meals a day washed down with at least a litre of vodka.

 

Photo taken from elsewhere: 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Helen of Annoy

[Grey Area]

30 minutes ago, Knob Oddy said:

However he says that a "neutral" Ukraine would be best for not only Ukrainians but for the world. He says that the west insisting on EU and Nato membership is forcing Ukraine to take an "agressive" stance towards Russia.

That’s a ridiculous statement.  Nations can request membership, but there’s not some sort of NATO talent spotter that visits nations and recruits them into NATO.

Ukraine has requested membership, not because the pushy west are insisting, but because it faces an existential threat from a very powerful neighbour.

And I would suggest Ukraine’s aggressive stance toward Russia has much more to do with Russia bombing the s*** out of its cities and killing its civilians than any western opinion of Russia.  Actions tend to speak much louder than words.

[ThereWeAreThen]

10 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

  Congratulations, putlerians. What a model soldier you've got there. 

(It's just too funny to be true, but one can hope it is true  After all, that's Ruzzia... it might as well be true.)

 

Source: Daily Star. It doesn't want to be linked.

  

An obese Russian retired general has been sent to fight on the frontlines in Eastern Ukraine because Vladimir Putin is running out of senior officers.

The 20 stone general, 67, is now said to be in charge of Russian special forces operating in the region after the unit’s former commander was seriously injured in an artillery strike.

...

A senior intelligence source last night told the Daily Star Sunday: “Putin is now scraping the barrel.

“Most of his best and battle-hardened senior commanders have been killed or injured fighting in Ukraine so he is resorting to sending second rate officers to the front who don’t last very long.

...

He is understood to require five meals a day washed down with at least a litre of vodka.

 

Photo taken from elsewhere: 

2nd most powerful military in the world by the way. 

[Trelane]

1 hour ago, Knob Oddy said:

My understanding of the Lithuania situation is that Lithuanian authorities are stopping russian vehicles traveling to Kaliningrad.

Russia sees that as picking a side

...or it's just doing the right thing and not enabling a war mongering country.