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Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?


Grim Reaper 6
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13 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

Veterans dont fight for their country.

They might join with those ideas in their heads, but as soon as they get a taste of what war is really like then its a fight for their own survival. When you have just seen someone blown in half shrieking like something gone wrong then its sod your country, do what you need to do to save yourself from that terror.

That is absolutely not what it is like.  If you go all ‘every man for himself’ in combat you’ll last as long as a snowflake in hell.

You are trained to work as a team, and if one of your team has been blown up but still shrieking you are trained to get them to cover as quick as you can while your team suppresses the hell out of the enemy.

You are trained how to react under fire and how to survive an engagement.  You will never ever just be sent out willy nilly and told to ‘defend your country’, unless you are James Bond.  you will have a clear generally achievable objective such as hold a bridge, or defend an elevated position, and you will have a fall back option as well as support.

Dude, Sun Tzu figured this stuff out over 2000 years ago.

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13 minutes ago, Grey Area said:

That is absolutely not what it is like.  If you go all ‘every man for himself’ in combat you’ll last as long as a snowflake in hell.

You are trained to work as a team, and if one of your team has been blown up but still shrieking you are trained to get them to cover as quick as you can while your team suppresses the hell out of the enemy.

You are trained how to react under fire and how to survive an engagement.  You will never ever just be sent out willy nilly and told to ‘defend your country’, unless you are James Bond.  you will have a clear generally achievable objective such as hold a bridge, or defend an elevated position, and you will have a fall back option as well as support.

Dude, Sun Tzu figured this stuff out over 2000 years ago.

Best hope I`m not in your unit then as I would escape and survive lol.

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36 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

That's funny. We came at it from opposite angels. I felt like the 11% are moreso from the people outside the warzone. Because those who have lost loved one and had home destroyed by Russians would probably have more anger and find cedeing land as an insult 

 

 

 

 

 

We may both be right.   It could be split in many ways.  I would think that those who are actively fighting may think, like you said, it is an insult.   But maybe the families who are living each day in fear for their lives and just want this to end would be OK with giving Russia some land to make this hell stop.

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9 minutes ago, Myles said:

We may both be right.   It could be split in many ways.  I would think that those who are actively fighting may think, like you said, it is an insult.   But maybe the families who are living each day in fear for their lives and just want this to end would be OK with giving Russia some land to make this hell stop.

Which American media is spreading that piece of Russian narrative disguised as "concern"?  

The war won't end if Ukraine surrenders, or even surrenders a part of its territory. 

Any concessions will guarantee continuation of Russian aggression. Occupied territories are being sites of war crimes, with genocide of Ukrainians as Russian end goal. 

Only defeat of Russia can bring peace and security to Ukraine. Do not trust Russian assets and their interpretation of what Ukrainians must be thinking. You've got Internet, go and see and hear what Ukrainians think, straight from them.  

 

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3518291-blackmail-bloodshed-and-destruction-are-backbone-of-russias-foreign-policy-yermak.html

Russia sees any talk of concessions or even negotiations as a weakness, with blackmail, bloodshed, and destruction being the backbone of Russia's foreign policy.

...

"History has taught us that the aggressor's appetites grow with each concession. That is why the security of not only Europe, but also the whole of humanity is threatened. And we believe that if Russia is not stopped in Ukraine, NATO will inevitably be drawn into the war. In addition, the unpunished aggressor gives grounds for other criminals to build their own plans of aggression," Yermak said.

 

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1 hour ago, el midgetron said:

You can pretend know what you are talking about for alot of things but not about me. You don’t know me so don’t pretend like you do. All it does is demonstrate you are willing to play make believe to support your position. 

Hi El

I don't pretend to know you I read your posts.

1 hour ago, el midgetron said:

So, you would ensure the safety of your family? Then why are kids dying in Ukraine? Is that their parents fault? Is it because they aren’t tough guys from the hood too? or is your whole position to just about pretending nothing bad could happen if “you” were in Ukraine?

Look I don't know what your problem is I answered your questions and asked a couple of my own. Yes as an individual in that situation would move my family and that is a personal choice and would stay and fight to help those that could/would not send their families. War is war and now a days we can move around the globe with much more ease that 60 years ago.

You don't have to be a street punk to stand up for each other and yes I was living a dangerous life so what that is who I am not scared to take a chance.

1 hour ago, el midgetron said:

Since you didn’t answer my question satisfactorily I’ll ask again. Would you be willing to lose your family to prevent Ukraine from being part of Russia again? Yes or no. You don’t have pretend control over the situation. Real peoples lives are being shatter, not pretend scenarios. Real people are dying who couldn’t get their families to safety. Is that a price you would be willing to pay? 

Your swimming in a whirl pol of your own making, not I wouldn't have control over the governing aspects of a war but do have control over myself and myself would pay any price that I have/had to, that is what standing up for what you believe in entails.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:

Veterans dont fight for their country.

They might join with those ideas in their heads, but as soon as they get a taste of what war is really like then its a fight for their own survival. When you have just seen someone blown in half shrieking like something gone wrong then its sod your country, do what you need to do to save yourself from that terror.

Every single part of your post is incorrect. None of what you stated is true on any level.

Have you served in a combat zone? I can state definitively that if someone from a unit is injured, Soldiers do not cut and run. Cowards do that. Generally, usually, normally these that tuck tail and run end up getting killed due their lack of battlefield awareness, self-discipline and overall tactical inefficiency.

Edited by Trelane
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4 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

And yet, in Bucha, a Russian soldier raped a baby before murdering it and posted video on line.

And yet, in intercepted calls of Russian soldiers, they brag how they shoot civilians, how they love to torture them, how they fire at civilian cars with "children" written on them. 

And yet the tortured Ukrainians are often teenagers, and yet mass graves are full of children and teens too. 

Very few, right. But what those supposedly sane in their units do? Do they stop the very few from committing atrocities? No. And do you know why? Because Russian army encourages methods of genocide, it does not punish it or stop it in any way. 

Troll on, you little pestilence, but keep that line that separates a man from an orc in your mind.  

You have been in a war zone, you know it goes on even when the orders from above are for them to behave themselves.

When the orders are like that its the odd one here and there, when the orders are to do it then it is way more widespread. Its like the Russians running into Berlin, they were so eager for their `reward` they were dropping their pants in the streets.

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9 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

I don’t discuss my personal life or history in my posts. You just make things up. 

Hi Ell

Not sure what you think I am saying to you. I read the content of your posts and that is what you show us, your opinion. I am not berating you when I ask questions that is how discussions go.

12 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

So, why are kids dying in Ukraine? Is it the fault of the parents for not being as street wise as you?

Are you daft or trying to pick a fight. Yes children are being killed and the only place fault lies is with the invader(Russia if I have to make myself clear for you) and not all parents or people have the same access to funds or transport to move their families. They don't have to be streetwise and that is you again taking a comment out of context to push your agenda. The reference to living that kind of life is war period the only difference in the war in Ukraine you can trust the guys you are fighting with on the street you can't trust anyone, ever.

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9 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

If the US was invaded it's clear what you would do. 

Yeah, I’d expect the international community to pay for the US to defend itself…….. 
 

Talk about a dumb straw man, You don’t even understand my position. I don’t have a problem with Ukraine defending its self. I just don’t want to pay for it, I’m sick of the US waging wars all over the planet. Every time it’s the civilians who pay the real price. 

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5 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Yeah, I’d expect the international community to pay for the US to defend itself…….. 

I legitimately would expect our allies to supply us with weapons and support if the US was invaded.

Nations with similar values must stick together. 

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6 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Talk about a dumb straw man, You don’t even understand my position. I don’t have a problem with Ukraine defending its self. I just don’t want to pay for it, I’m sick of the US waging wars all over the planet. Every time it’s the civilians who pay the real price. 

Not wanting to be involved with in other nations wars is a fine stance.

But that's not what most of your comments are about.

You go about it by disparaging Ukrianians at every turn. Blaming them for their deaths and war. Calling them Nazis. Etc.

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2 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I legitimately would expect our allies to supply us with weapons and support if the US was invaded.

Nations with similar values must stick together. 

What values are those?

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I legitimately would expect our allies to supply us with weapons and support if the US was invaded.

Nations with similar values must stick together. 

Well I think us Brits, Canadians, Australians, and New Zealanders, would help the USA as you are the Anglo realm too.

Heck I might even fight for that one. I wouldn`t fight to help the Franco-Prussians or the Ukrainians.

Edited by Cookie Monster
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3 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

What values are those?

Democratic and support of classical liberal values such as freedom of speech, religion, protest, etc.

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4 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Not wanting to be involved with in other nations wars is a fine stance.

The irony is that is my stance. You say it’s “fine” but I’ve been called numerous names and accused of all kinds of things for that position. 

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Just now, el midgetron said:

Everyone of you depends on misrepresenting my comments. Everyone of you shifts away from the issue and makes it about the poster.  

It's because you dodge questions and can't have a sensible discussion about anything without trying to insert irrelevant BS. It's not us who are at fault, here.

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Just now, el midgetron said:

The irony is that is my stance. You say it’s “fine” but I’ve been called numerous names and accused of all kinds of things for that position. 

You can think that. But the names you have been called have mostly been for how you disparage Ukraine and blame them for the war. 

I'm not going to go through and find all your post to quote to you. But everyone who has been participating in this thread has seen exactly what I'm talking about. 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

It's because you dodge questions and can't have a sensible discussion about anything without trying to insert irrelevant BS. It's not us who are at fault, here.

No its not, he, several others, and even myself earlier on, got grief either for not supporting the war or calling out our own propaganda.

Just watch - How if a 40km column of armoured vehicles runs out of petrol do they then turn around and drive back into Belarus?

Edited by Cookie Monster
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3 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

How if a 40km column of armoured vehicles runs out of petrol do they then turn around and drive back into Belarus?

Refuelled? Or maybe it wasn't actually a petrol problem? I don't recall credible sources blaming it entirely on petrol - it was a combination of issues.

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1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

You can think that. But the names you have been called have mostly been for how you disparage Ukraine and blame them for the war. 

I'm not going to go through and find all your post to quote to you. But everyone who has been participating in this thread has seen exactly what I'm talking about. 

I have not blamed Ukraine for the war. Period. 
I have called Ukraine out for what it is. I have not “disparaged it” I have said what was common to acknowledge about Ukraine before the post 2/24 propaganda mandate. 
 

You guys can’t even comment about what I’ve posted today without misrepresenting it, let alone thing I’ve said days or weeks ago. 

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2 hours ago, el midgetron said:

Everyone of you depends on misrepresenting my comments. Everyone of you shifts away from the issue and makes it about the poster.

Hi El

Current experience with you shows that this is your way of engaging a topic

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Is there a reason they picked this particular spot to launch the rockets? Just doesn’t seem like driving that giant truck in there and then launching the rockets would be very good for the crops? 
 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Britain will commit an extra 1,000 troops and one of its two new aircraft carriers to the defence of Nato’s eastern flank, the defence secretary has announced, as Downing Street unveiled £1bn in extra military support for Ukraine.

The forces will be earmarked for the defence of Estonia, where Britain already has about 1,700 personnel deployed, but they will be based in the UK, ready to fly out to defend the Baltic country if deemed necessary.

Speaking at the Nato summit in Madrid, Ben Wallace said the UK would “allocate a brigade” to Estonia, effectively an increase in the number of British troops available to about 3,000, saying it would be more efficient to base some of the forces at home and their equipment in Germany.

Britain to commit 1,000 extra troops to Nato’s defence of Estonia | Military | The Guardian

Edited by The Silver Shroud
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The NYT is running the headline “A more muscular NATO emerges as the west confronts Russia and China”

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/29/world/europe/nato-expansion-ukraine-war.html

i can’t read the article because it’s behind a paywall but wtf? Now we are at war with China to? It’s like we are being gaslighted into WW3. 
 

Also notice the headline doesn’t even mention Ukraine. They are not part of “the west” they are a proxy state and nothing more. 

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