el midgetron Posted June 30, 2022 #7776 Share Posted June 30, 2022 After More Than $50 Billion In Aid, Zelensky Wants Billions More From American Taxpayers Yesterday’s speech follows Zelensky’s April statement that Ukraine needs $7 billion monthly to replenish the resources depleted by the war. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky called for his usual order of war aid in a speech yesterday after a Russian missile struck a Kremenchuk shopping mall, killing at least 12 people, Zelensky said, and injuring 24. Zelensky demanded more help from the West, despite the United States pouring billions of dollars into his government’s coffers while voters grapple with a struggling economy at home. https://thefederalist.com/2022/06/28/after-more-than-50-billion-in-aid-zelensky-wants-billions-more-from-american-taxpayers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el midgetron Posted June 30, 2022 #7777 Share Posted June 30, 2022 This viral picture shows how Ukrainian children are living during Russia-Ukraine conflict Uzelkova posted the picture with a long caption in Ukrainian that meant this was the reality of Ukrainian children now. The blogger pointed out that they fight for their usual peaceful reality every day. https://www.firstpost.com/world/this-viral-picture-shows-how-ukrainian-children-are-living-during-russia-ukraine-conflict-10853671.html photo at link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el midgetron Posted June 30, 2022 #7778 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Ukraine warns of looming financial crisis if aid doesn’t come International partners — including the EU — must urgently provide Ukraine the aid it needs to avert a financial crisis, its finance minister warned. “The most important thing which we want to avoid is a financial crisis, it's hyperinflation, it's a devaluation of our national currency,” Serhiy Marchenko told POLITICO in an interview. The country’s output is expected to fall by 45 percent this year as a consequence of Russia’s invasion, leaving the government with a budget gap of $5 billion per month. Since the start of the war, Ukraine has received about $8 billion in grants and loans from allied governments and international financial institutions, but that amount falls short of covering the gap. https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-warn-looming-financial-crisis-aid-does-not-come/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted June 30, 2022 #7779 Share Posted June 30, 2022 11 minutes ago, el midgetron said: After More Than $50 Billion In Aid, Zelensky Wants Billions More From American Taxpayers One reason off the top of my head that this is a good deal for the US. In a perfect world this wouldn't be so, but it is in the world we live in. Most of this money is not cash but military supplies. We have sent both field tested weapon systems and state of the art systems, some that have never been proved on any battlefield. It gives us and the rest of the world the first chance to see what these weapons do, not against a bunch of ISIS guys driving technicals, but against what was supposed to be one of the three greatest armies in the world. We can see how to improve them and our allies and adversaries get a better idea of what their current potential is. Sounds perverted, but in some ways if adversaries are more wary of resorting to military force, it makes us safer. That 50 billion dollars is already spent, most of it right here in the US. It went into the pockets of American workers, American suppliers, and of course large defense contractors. Sad to say, but war provides jobs and a boost to the economy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el midgetron Posted June 30, 2022 #7780 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Taiwan could become next Ukraine as China may invade unless Britain protects it, Liz Truss warns LIZ Truss has admitted that Britain must protect Taiwan now to avoid the small island falling prey to evil Chinese takeover ambitions. Like Ukraine, for years Taiwan has faced the threat of its giant authoritarian neighbour launching an invasion. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/19045498/liz-truss-warns-britain-must-protect-taiwan/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted June 30, 2022 #7781 Share Posted June 30, 2022 8 hours ago, The Silver Shroud said: Russia has with drawn from Snake Island after serious losses: I dont know why they keep going for that island. Sure, a SAM or two on it would be great but 1 bomb or missile back and its all gone again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el midgetron Posted June 30, 2022 #7782 Share Posted June 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, Tatetopa said: One reason off the top of my head that this is a good deal for the US. In a perfect world this wouldn't be so, but it is in the world we live in. Most of this money is not cash but military supplies. We have sent both field tested weapon systems and state of the art systems, some that have never been proved on any battlefield. It gives us and the rest of the world the first chance to see what these weapons do, not against a bunch of ISIS guys driving technicals, but against what was supposed to be one of the three greatest armies in the world. We can see how to improve them and our allies and adversaries get a better idea of what their current potential is. Sounds perverted, but in some ways if adversaries are more wary of resorting to military force, it makes us safer. That 50 billion dollars is already spent, most of it right here in the US. It went into the pockets of American workers, American suppliers, and of course large defense contractors. Sad to say, but war provides jobs and a boost to the economy. I expect the war to continue for a long time. Yesterday, I posted an article speculating it would last into 2023, a fairly evident conclusion at this point. $7B per month is going to rack up a hefty cost for this war. I’m not entirely clear on the form this aid is taking. Clearly a chunk is weapons. However, my post above #7775 seems to refer to an expendable $5B cash deficit. Is this what the requested $7B a month is for? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted June 30, 2022 #7783 Share Posted June 30, 2022 4 minutes ago, el midgetron said: I expect the war to continue for a long time. Yesterday, I posted an article speculating it would last into 2023, a fairly evident conclusion at this point. $7B per month is going to rack up a hefty cost for this war. I’m not entirely clear on the form this aid is taking. Clearly a chunk is weapons. However, my post above #7775 seems to refer to an expendable $5B cash deficit. Is this what the requested $7B a month is for? I assume some of the aide is for non-weapon things like food and infrastructure. Keeping things running. War wrecks havoc on nations. Especially when you're the one invaded. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted June 30, 2022 #7784 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) UK increased its defence spending to 2.5% That might be another aircraft carrier with destroyers and subs. Edited June 30, 2022 by Cookie Monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted June 30, 2022 #7785 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Russia attacked Ukraine. Russia is guilty for every death and damage in Ukraine. Quite obviously, every possible pressure must be put on Russia to stop their illegal aggression and start paying reparations. War is expensive, of course, so those who rather wouldn't pay for it should tell Putin to stop causing these expenses. If Ukraine falls, emboldened Putin will use stolen resources to replenish weapons and buy more traitors in the West, then move on to the next target. Very obviously, if someone comes to your house and is trying to murder you, with intention to loot your house and burn the rest, you will not look for ways to share the blame, you will look for a shotgun and you won't spare ammo. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHunter Posted June 30, 2022 #7786 Share Posted June 30, 2022 This is relatively minor but had it pointed out how this war has completely changed how militaries will use artillery going forward. Essentially the use of drones has made artillery far deadlier as drones can spot targets over a far larger area, far safer, and most importantly allows the artillery crew to see in real time exactly where the shells are landing for significantly quicker corrected shots, they no longer need to rely on a forward observer giving estimates of how far off the shells are and in what direction they are off by. Drones have been around for awhile but I think this is the first war where artillery crews are operating their own spotting drones on site. Minor but definitely a major change in warfare. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted June 30, 2022 #7787 Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el midgetron Posted June 30, 2022 #7788 Share Posted June 30, 2022 https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/27278/military-aid-to-ukraine-by-country/ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted June 30, 2022 #7789 Share Posted June 30, 2022 https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3519050-enemy-ammunition-depot-destroyed-with-ukraines-valkyrja-on-eastern-front.html Ukrainian artillerymen have hit Russia’s ammunition depot on the eastern front using the Ukrainian-manufactured unmanned aircraft system, Valkyrja. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted June 30, 2022 #7790 Share Posted June 30, 2022 https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3519074-ukrainian-military-shoot-down-russias-ka52-approaching-snake-island.html According to the South Operational Command, Russians attempted to organize a rescue operation, but their helicopter joined the missile cruiser Moskva, which had sunk earlier. And the helicopter they rode in on too 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted June 30, 2022 #7791 Share Posted June 30, 2022 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nato-arms-canada-1.6506611 Ukraine's long-standing pleas — and prayers — for advanced Western weapons are beginning to be answered as Canada announced Thursday it plans to send dozens of brand-new armoured personnel carriers to the embattled country. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted June 30, 2022 #7792 Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted June 30, 2022 #7793 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said: Russia attacked Ukraine. Russia is guilty for every death and damage in Ukraine. Quite obviously, every possible pressure must be put on Russia to stop their illegal aggression and start paying reparations. War is expensive, of course, so those who rather wouldn't pay for it should tell Putin to stop causing these expenses. If Ukraine falls, emboldened Putin will use stolen resources to replenish weapons and buy more traitors in the West, then move on to the next target. Very obviously, if someone comes to your house and is trying to murder you, with intention to loot your house and burn the rest, you will not look for ways to share the blame, you will look for a shotgun and you won't spare ammo. The Baltic States would be next. The Russians seek to intimidate the West by waving their nuclear phallus around. Of course, they must know launching a single nuke would trigger nuclear Armagedón. In the shattered nuclear wasteland that was their homeland, there'd be two few of them left to prevent the wholesale slaughter of the survivors by remnant populations of the surrounding countries they had defiled. They'd be killed, every man, woman and child, that their name be spoken no more by the nations of men. Edited June 30, 2022 by Hammerclaw 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted June 30, 2022 #7794 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said: So am I interpreting this correctly: Russia plans to launch an offensive/military operation into NATO territory? Edited June 30, 2022 by Nuclear Wessel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted June 30, 2022 #7795 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 minute ago, Nuclear Wessel said: So am I interpreting this correctly: Russia plans to launch an offensive/military operation into NATO territory? Belarus exercise ends today, they may invade Ukraine tomorrow, their country is officially mobilising. Russia has been building up on Lithuanian border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el midgetron Posted June 30, 2022 #7796 Share Posted June 30, 2022 While Ukraine undoubtedly has the right to pursue ultimate victory, the United States and other allies should be highly concerned about sparking a wider conflict that could easily turn nuclear. One would think that this very real concern would translate into a concerted push for dialogue and a peace settlement, but that doesn’t necessarily appear to be the case. A report from Ukrainska Pravda, citing sources close to Zelensky, claimed Boris Johnson told the president “even if Ukraine is ready to sign some agreements on guarantees with Putin,” Ukraine’s allies are not, most namely, the U.S. This comes after President Biden ad-libbed that Putin “cannot remain in power” and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin stated America’s goal was to see a “weakened” Russia. Even further, America’s top diplomat, Secretary of State Anthony Blinken, has not spoken to his Russian counterpart since the start of the war.….. …..The U.S. should join France and Germany in helping push the war towards a peace settlement. Although Ukraine is adamant that “any concession to Russia is not a path to peace,” neither is flooding the warzone with billions of dollars in arms…… https://theowp.org/reports/united-states-should-send-more-diplomats-to-ukraine-not-weapons/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted June 30, 2022 #7797 Share Posted June 30, 2022 7 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said: So am I interpreting this correctly: Russia plans to launch an offensive/military operation into NATO territory? Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Up to Feb 23rd this year, I would be certain that's saber rattling nonsense. Since Feb 24th this year, I know nothing's too stupid for Russia. They plan to attack a NATO country. It's illogical, especially in their situation (they want to open the second front with their crippled army - against NATO no less), but their actions can't be predicted anymore by relying on what's logical. Russian "logic" consists of belief in the myths they created (their missiles are unstoppable, their men genetically superior, everyone in the West will rise up against own governments in fear and awe of Putin's greatness). BUT. Big but. It's possible that this is an attempt to create that panic in the West their myth foretells. Without intention to ever really attack NATO, they will posture as if they will. Until civil unrest lead by "pacifists" in the West force western governments to acknowledge Russian superiority, or the same assets overthrow western governments. Now a bigger but. Since Feb 24th, it's clear that Putin is disastrous strategist and Russian army is semi-organized. Their only advantage is willingness to waste men and materiel and the size of their soviet arsenal (it's ancient but it still explodes). It brings me back to start, where I realized that logic is not a factor. Putin might easily actually attack NATO, because he refuses to acknowledge that we all saw what Russian army really is. He will attack to "prove" that Russia can defeat NATO. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHunter Posted June 30, 2022 #7798 Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said: Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Up to Feb 23rd this year, I would be certain that's saber rattling nonsense. Since Feb 24th this year, I know nothing's too stupid for Russia. They plan to attack a NATO country. It's illogical, especially in their situation (they want to open the second front with their crippled army - against NATO no less), but their actions can't be predicted anymore by relying on what's logical. Russian "logic" consists of belief in the myths they created (their missiles are unstoppable, their men genetically superior, everyone in the West will rise up against own governments in fear and awe of Putin's greatness). BUT. Big but. It's possible that this is an attempt to create that panic in the West their myth foretells. Without intention to ever really attack NATO, they will posture as if they will. Until civil unrest lead by "pacifists" in the West force western governments to acknowledge Russian superiority, or the same assets overthrow western governments. Now a bigger but. Since Feb 24th, it's clear that Putin is disastrous strategist and Russian army is semi-organized. Their only advantage is willingness to waste men and materiel and the size of their soviet arsenal (it's ancient but it still explodes). It brings me back to start, where I realized that logic is not a factor. Putin might easily actually attack NATO, because he refuses to acknowledge that we all saw what Russian army really is. He will attack to "prove" that Russia can defeat NATO. There is another aspect to and that is the mindset of the Russian people and government. In the west the population and leadership view this war as a conflict between Russia and Ukraine but in Russia they already view themselves at war with NATO but the war is just currently restrained to Ukraine. The Russian people and leadership arent going to view an attack on Lithuania as a start of a second war with NATO but as just expanding the war they are currently involved in. Since Russia hasnt been having the success they expected they are now more willing and likely to try risky and dangerous strategies to win. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted June 30, 2022 #7799 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 39 minutes ago, el midgetron said: While Ukraine undoubtedly has the right to pursue ultimate victory, the United States and other allies should be highly concerned about sparking a wider conflict that could easily turn nuclear. One would think that this very real concern would translate into a concerted push for dialogue and a peace settlement, but that doesn’t necessarily appear to be the case. A report from Ukrainska Pravda, citing sources close to Zelensky, claimed Boris Johnson told the president “even if Ukraine is ready to sign some agreements on guarantees with Putin,” Ukraine’s allies are not, most namely, the U.S. This comes after President Biden ad-libbed that Putin “cannot remain in power” and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin stated America’s goal was to see a “weakened” Russia. Even further, America’s top diplomat, Secretary of State Anthony Blinken, has not spoken to his Russian counterpart since the start of the war.….. …..The U.S. should join France and Germany in helping push the war towards a peace settlement. Although Ukraine is adamant that “any concession to Russia is not a path to peace,” neither is flooding the warzone with billions of dollars in arms…… https://theowp.org/reports/united-states-should-send-more-diplomats-to-ukraine-not-weapons/ One of the polls I posted earlier had 89% of Ukrianians refusing to cede land to Russia Edited June 30, 2022 by spartan max2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted June 30, 2022 #7800 Share Posted June 30, 2022 17 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said: Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Up to Feb 23rd this year, I would be certain that's saber rattling nonsense. Since Feb 24th this year, I know nothing's too stupid for Russia. They plan to attack a NATO country. It's illogical, especially in their situation (they want to open the second front with their crippled army - against NATO no less), but their actions can't be predicted anymore by relying on what's logical. Russian "logic" consists of belief in the myths they created (their missiles are unstoppable, their men genetically superior, everyone in the West will rise up against own governments in fear and awe of Putin's greatness). ..... There was a senior UK military bod on R4 yesterday who was asked by the interviewer if anyone seriously believed Putin was in a position to attack a NATO country given his less than successful war in Ukraine. He replied as you did "up to February, no one thought he would invade Ukraine. But he did." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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