Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?

[Grey Area]

Here is another update and very interesting perspective from this guy.

Interestingly he talks a bit about China, with mid-givings at how cosy Russia is with China, as they are not seen as an ally by those in Russia, but actually a very dangerous adversary right on their doorstep.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Grey Area

[+Nuclear Wessel]

5 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Is Ukraine open to any diplomacy? Or are they committed to a death match with Russia?

Why would they be committed to a death match with Russia? Russia is not forced to be in Ukraine. You seem to sidestep that fairly often. 

[bmk1245]

I woder, how many americans were against lend-lease back in 40s... Just a thought....

[Helen of Annoy]

Belarus. This is what "Russian world" looks like, this is what you'd get with surrendering to Putin. 

This would be the result of pro-Russian "peaceful" solutions in any other country. 

 

 https://kyivindependent.com/hot-topic/belarus-weekly

Belarusian dictator Alexander Lukashenko met with his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin for the sixth time this year, taunting the world with the threat of nuclear proliferation.

Russia resumed launching missiles into Ukraine from Belarusian territory, likely in an attempt to drag Belarus into directly joining Russia’s full-scale war against Ukraine.

...

In another example of the arbitrary use of the legal system in Belarus, a high-ranking official in Belarus’ Ministry of Internal Affairs, shot a teenager for a minor infraction. Charges have been brought against the teenager.

...

[el midgetron]

9 minutes ago, Grey Area said:

There is no valid narrative in which the victim of an illegal and immoral invasion is then blamed for prolonging a war by defending its country and not ceding territory.

By that ridiculous notion any aggressor could invade a nation and lay blame squarely on them when territory is not granted.  You don’t blame the homeowner when their house is burgled. 

That’s not at all my position or the contents of my posts. Everyone is responsible for their actions and choices they make, Your commentary seems to imply that Ukraine has no freewill or autonomy of choice. That once Russia invaded, Ukraine’s destiny no matter how dire or devastating was set. 
 

The home owner isn’t to blame for their house being burglarized. However, what the homeowner does in response to the burglary is 100% their responsibility. If you shoot at a burglar and miss and it hits some random person across the street, that is your fault (not the burglars) and you are liable. If you burn down your house to stop it from being burglarized, your house burning down is not the fault of the burglar. 

[el midgetron]

38 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Why would they be committed to a death match with Russia? Russia is not forced to be in Ukraine. You seem to sidestep that fairly often. 

So the only option is for Ukraine to fight until either Ukraine is completely defeated or Russia leaves? 

[bmk1245]

I'm still trying to figure out how many russian oil and gas, and electricity Lithuania buys from russia/belorussia...

Oh dear... Shait...

Good thing, we have LNG terminal....

[bmk1245]

1 minute ago, el midgetron said:

So the only option is for Ukraine to fight until either Ukraine is completely defeated or Russia leaves? 

Russia's defeat/disbanding (as USSR), the onky solution. Period.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

14 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

So the only option is for Ukraine to fight until either Ukraine is completely defeated or Russia leaves? 

If you cared to remember it was actually made quite clear that Zelensky was open to negotiations, but only if Russia left the country. At this point, the only options are those, plus, potentially, a stalemate, or Russia is defeated by Ukraine. Either way, it’s up to Russia, not Ukraine, to put an end to the war. It is not up to Ukraine to stop a war that they did not start, and are only acting as participants in a defensive capacity. 

There is no argument you can make that is going to compel me to see that Russia isn’t the one who should bear sole responsibility for this war. Ukraine is doing everything they should be doing, as a country being invaded. 

Do you agree that Russia should just leave Ukraine? Leaving Ukraine would literally just end this entire war, and allow Ukraine to finally rebuild. It’s not hard to understand, 

[Coil]

20 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

What do you think, is there any chance that the people who were separatists, who wanted to be a part of Putin's Russia, will change their minds? 

Now they can see how much Putin cares for them - he doesn't, they're just meat to him. Will they regret their decisions from the past and start cooperating with Ukraine, or they're lost causes? 

Donetsk separatists have recently stated that they do not want to fight in the Luhansk region where heavy fighting is taking place, but they do not want to change. And young guys do not want to fight, they are simply victims of the war.

Ordinary people, not imbued with propaganda, regret that the war started and they had to leave for other regions of Ukraine, since they could not serve as a separatist government and it was dangerous to stay in the occupied regions.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

 

[Silver]

Just a fun post. Welcome to Ukraine:

 

[+Nuclear Wessel]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-u-s-confirms-nasams-air-defense-system-transfer

[Electric Scooter]

11 minutes ago, The Silver Shroud said:

Just a fun post. Welcome to Ukraine:

 

What a poor propaganda video.

At the beginning we can see how tall the grass is, thats a toy tank, then we notice how the video cuts to another video, showing an explosion in a field LMAO.

[el midgetron]

British Foreign Secretary Liz Truss believes that peace talks with Russia should be held only after its defeat in Ukraine.….

…."There are people who say that there are opportunities for negotiations now, while Russia is still in Ukraine. But I think that this will bring a fake peace. This will lead to further aggression in the future. We must learn the lessons of the past - the mistakes of the Minsk Protocol, for example, which could not ensure lasting peace in the region," the head of the British Foreign Office said.…

On June 14, Russian presidential aide Yury Ushakov said that the Russian-Ukrainian negotiation process had been put on hold since the Russian proposals were handed over to Ukraine, to which Kyiv did not respond.…

https://ukranews.com/en/news/865740-negotiations-with-russia-possible-only-after-its-defeat-in-ukraine-british-foreign-minister

[Silver]

17 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

What a poor propaganda video.

At the beginning we can see how tall the grass is, thats a toy tank, then we notice how the video cuts to another video, showing an explosion in a field LMAO.

 

[Coil]

Helen of Annoy

Written in 2014.

Residents of Donbass believed in the reality created by Russian TV channels. Unconditionally. They believed that “polite people” would come and ensure their well-being. They believed that Ukraine is a second-rate, useless, unsuccessful state, while Russia is something big, powerful and strong. That you can vote in a "referendum" for secession from Ukraine and live comfortably, because "there is a lot of coal." As if not knowing that there is a world economy, and Donbass will not survive separately from Ukraine. Not realizing that Ukraine will fight for its land, and the new generation of patriots will not allow the country to be destroyed, tearing piece by piece from it.

 

To draw conclusions from the current situation, it is enough just to look at where Ukraine is moving in world civilization and where Russia is moving. Ukraine is “drifting” towards Europe, towards the freedom of the human person, and Russia is gradually turning into an autocratic state ruled by one person - the tsar, and in which there is no other opinion than the opinion of the authorities. In such a country, human material is nothing more than "fertilizer" in the fields of a big state idea. How much this material is needed, so much will be destroyed. And this civilization called the "Russian world" never appreciated a single human person. Ukrainians in the west, Kievans, residents of Dnepropetrovsk or Vinnitsa were more fortunate - among them there were more independent people. In the end, many, risking their lives, kicked out the criminal government. We went to the Maidan. And they will expel more than one government incapable of serving this new people. They have taken up arms and are ready to defend not politicians and officials, but their right to live in a free country. Alas, the majority of Donbas residents are irresponsible and unable to understand the situation. And now they have to pay the price. Terrible price.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Coil

[Helen of Annoy]

46 minutes ago, Coil said:

Donetsk separatists have recently stated that they do not want to fight in the Luhansk region where heavy fighting is taking place, but they do not want to change. And young guys do not want to fight, they are simply victims of the war.

Ordinary people, not imbued with propaganda, regret that the war started and they had to leave for other regions of Ukraine, since they could not serve as a separatist government and it was dangerous to stay in the occupied regions.

At least some of the sane people found refuge in other parts of Ukraine. But it's still so horrible.

 

 

 

[spartan max2]

36 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

British Foreign Secretary Liz Truss believes that peace talks with Russia should be held only after its defeat in Ukraine.….

…."There are people who say that there are opportunities for negotiations now, while Russia is still in Ukraine. But I think that this will bring a fake peace. This will lead to further aggression in the future. We must learn the lessons of the past - the mistakes of the Minsk Protocol, for example, which could not ensure lasting peace in the region," the head of the British Foreign Office said.…

On June 14, Russian presidential aide Yury Ushakov said that the Russian-Ukrainian negotiation process had been put on hold since the Russian proposals were handed over to Ukraine, to which Kyiv did not respond.…

https://ukranews.com/en/news/865740-negotiations-with-russia-possible-only-after-its-defeat-in-ukraine-british-foreign-minister

Negotiate from a position of strenght

[+Nuclear Wessel]

57 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

British Foreign Secretary Liz Truss believes that peace talks with Russia should be held only after its defeat in Ukraine.….

…."There are people who say that there are opportunities for negotiations now, while Russia is still in Ukraine. But I think that this will bring a fake peace. This will lead to further aggression in the future. We must learn the lessons of the past - the mistakes of the Minsk Protocol, for example, which could not ensure lasting peace in the region," the head of the British Foreign Office said.…

On June 14, Russian presidential aide Yury Ushakov said that the Russian-Ukrainian negotiation process had been put on hold since the Russian proposals were handed over to Ukraine, to which Kyiv did not respond.…

https://ukranews.com/en/news/865740-negotiations-with-russia-possible-only-after-its-defeat-in-ukraine-british-foreign-minister

Do you agree that Russia leaving Ukraine would be the best solution to end the war? Do you believe they SHOULD? 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Nuclear Wessel

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

2 hours ago, el midgetron said:

That’s not at all my position or the contents of my posts. Everyone is responsible for their actions and choices they make, Your commentary seems to imply that Ukraine has no freewill or autonomy of choice. That once Russia invaded, Ukraine’s destiny no matter how dire or devastating was set. 
 

The home owner isn’t to blame for their house being burglarized. However, what the homeowner does in response to the burglary is 100% their responsibility. If you shoot at a burglar and miss and it hits some random person across the street, that is your fault (not the burglars) and you are liable. If you burn down your house to stop it from being burglarized, your house burning down is not the fault of the burglar. 

So what should Ukraine have done in your opinion ?

While I have been lucky to not have experienced war myself, my dad was a kid during the German occupation, so there are still people here who remember what it means. It's a curse that have plagued Europe for centuries.  Until Russia invaded Ukarine we have had an unprecedented period of time without one country invading another in Europe. Putin singlehandedly destroyed that record ! 

Unfortunately we have had civil wars though. @Helen of Annoy and @Coilcan fill you in on how it feel to live in a war zone.  But I have a feeling that you don't really care about that.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Noteverythingisaconspiracy

[Myles]

7 hours ago, Gromdor said:

There are those in America who truly believe that if Trump was president, Putin would  have never invaded and thus it is Biden's fault.  They side with the Russians because it makes Biden look bad.

i think there may be a few but not many.  I have yet to meet one person who sides with Russia.   Many think Russia may not have invaded if Trump was in office.  That may be true.  

[ThereWeAreThen]

6 minutes ago, Myles said:

i think there may be a few but not many.  I have yet to meet one person who sides with Russia.   Many think Russia may not have invaded if Trump was in office.  That may be true.  

Ye cause Trump would tell Ukraine to give papa Putler some land.

[Silver]

4 minutes ago, Myles said:

i think there may be a few but not many.  I have yet to meet one person who sides with Russia.   Many think Russia may not have invaded if Trump was in office.  That may be true.  

WTF? Trump wanted to dismantle NATO, he is a weak as water, a traitor to the US like Farage is to the UK. They were just 'useful fools'.Weak, treacherous people who just exploited populism to feather their own nests.

[Helen of Annoy]

1 hour ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

 

Unfortunately we have had civil wars though. @Helen of Annoy and @Coilcan fill you in on how it feel to live in a war zone.  But I have a feeling that you don't really care about that.

I could tolerate those who don't care about that. I've got a problem with those who are trying to justify, excuse or even recommend that.