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Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?


Grim Reaper 6
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1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

 

I must ask and please be honest for once. Your an American just like me and many others posting here, are you against the support of the Ukraine because Biden is President or are you a Russian Apologist? :unsure::huh:

I am anti Russia all the way, but also am not in favor of spending so much money in and for the Ukraine.  We have needs here in the states that need addressed.  Sending more than any other country (by a wide margin) doesn't sit well with me.   i believe it is around $50 billion spent so far.  

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34 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

[...]

Dude you German is terrible, Es ist besser, eine Sprache zu verwenden, mit der Sie vertraut sind, verwenden Sie Russisch:tu:

I don't think he knows russian...

On the news, Hungarian minister of foreign affairs Peter Szijjarto explains why Hungary decline to deliver weapons to Ukraine:

Quote

[...]

But one thing we do we expect, not to provocate us, not to accuse us, not to say bad things on us just because we made one decision, and this

decision is the following, that we do not take part in weapon deliveries. Why? Because we are a neighboring country.

For us, the major -- the major goal is not to get involved into this war in any way. And you know that...

[...]

Why we have asked for the exemption from the oil embargo was the fact that in case we had not asked for it, in case we had not got it, it would be

physically impossible to supply the country with enough oil. It's a matter of mathematics. We have a certain amount of oil we need in order to operate

the country.

If the Russian deliveries are being phased out, no physical opportunity to replace it. And I tell you why, not for fun, not by choice. But geography

has determined our house number. Geography has determined the infrastructure.

[...]

(full transcript)

Me, kinda, understands hungarians, landlocked country, but they've probably forgot 1956...

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4 minutes ago, Myles said:

I am anti Russia all the way, but also am not in favor of spending so much money in and for the Ukraine.  We have needs here in the states that need addressed.  Sending more than any other country (by a wide margin) doesn't sit well with me.   i believe it is around $50 billion spent so far.  

I'm not sure all those ~$50 billion will be spend on Ukraine. Main amount of that, I'm sure, will go to some worthless bs localy (in US) and diversity/equity bs in ukrainian army, not the weapons Ukraine needed months ago. We'll see...

Just my 2 cents...  

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18 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

I don't think he knows russian...

On the news, Hungarian minister of foreign affairs Peter Szijjarto explains why Hungary decline to deliver weapons to Ukraine:

(full transcript)

Me, kinda, understands hungarians, landlocked country, but they've probably forgot 1956...

Well, even in 1956 they had people like Orban and Szijjarto. That is why 1956 happened so easy. 

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Heh, on the good news, something brews in russia, sixth russian millionaire linked to Gazprom dies:

Quote

A SENIOR senior executive linked to Russian energy giant Gazprom has been found dead in his mansion swimming pool.

Multi-millionaire Yuri Voronov, 61, is the latest Russian millionaire to die in mysterious circumstances recently.

(link)

Dropping dead like flies..

I like it.

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7 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Then perhaps you can elaborate on what weapons, specifically, Ukraine has been using in dense population areas that have resulted in a lot of indiscriminate collateral damage compared against Russia? Because as far as I know, Ukraine's not relentlessly bombarding their own cities with artillery. It's fairly limited and only used on targets like weapon depots and such.

Ukraine has been “defending” its self with artillery for 8 years. The separatists they are fighting are inside Ukraine. When Ukraine fires their artillery at the separatists, they are firing on Ukrainian cities, 

But no, the Russian artillery bombardments of today are a drastic escalation and beyond the capabilities of Ukraine. 

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7 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

How many Ukrainian civilians have been killed with Ukraine's own weapons, since this war started? Russia has precision munitions and avoids using them as much as possible, as evinced by the fact that, a few days after using Kh-22 missiles in a dense population area, Russia claimed that they used precise munitions to strike targets in Ukraine. Ukraine is requesting more, and also doesn't relentlessly bombard their own cities indiscriminately like Russia bombards Ukrainian cities.

I remember when the first Iraq war started. The media showed “smart bomb” footage of missiles going through windows to precisely strike targets. It quelled public concern about indiscriminate bombing. The reality it such strikes were the very rare in the 85k tons of bombs we dropped on Iraq. 
 

By most estimates more than 3,000 civilians had been killed in the Donbas conflict prior to the invasion, Earlier in the war, it was still acceptable to acknowledge that these fatalities were caused by both sides. 

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26 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Ukraine has been “defending” its self with artillery for 8 years. The separatists they are fighting are inside Ukraine. When Ukraine fires their artillery at the separatists, they are firing on Ukrainian cities, 

But no, the Russian artillery bombardments of today are a drastic escalation and beyond the capabilities of Ukraine. 

You do realize, that in 8 years Donetsk still in the same shape as was back 7/8 years ago in comparison with decimated Mariupol today?

You do realize, that in 8 years Luhansk still in the same shape as was back 7/8 years ago in comparison with decimated Severodonetsk today?

Until russia invaded Ukraine, there were just occasional exchange of fire between russian separatists and ukrainian forces.

But let me ask you: antifa/blm crowd decides that your state is independent, they seek china's protection, china responds by sending "polite men". You are sitting on the couch "OK, fair enough"...

Would you really be sitting on the couch, and doing nothing? I'm not sure 100%, but I guess you'd take action, with rifle(s)/pistol(s) doing their job...

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59 minutes ago, Myles said:

I am anti Russia all the way, but also am not in favor of spending so much money in and for the Ukraine.  We have needs here in the states that need addressed.  Sending more than any other country (by a wide margin) doesn't sit well with me.   i believe it is around $50 billion spent so far.  

I understand your point and it’s a good one. But, that comes with being a Super Power if we sit back and allow Russia with Chinese assistance destabilize Europe, Asia will be next and that will create a world war.

What do you think will happen then, if America sits back and stays neutral?

If my memory serves me correctly and I am getting old, every world war that has occurred has ended up pulling the United States into it.

What will it cost our nation then?

I remember the Cold War very clearly, just like I remember the Cuban Missile Crisis. I served our nation proudly for 34 years, I have seen the aggressive expansion that nations force upon their neighboring countries first. I have also seen our nation try to act as the world’s police force and that I never agreed with but this isn’t one of those times.

This conflict has been brewing for more than 10 years and it’s been Vladimir Putins objective to recreate the power base of the Soviet Union. This conflict must be stopped before it grows any larger, and sadly for the Ukrainian people it must be stopped in their country where it began.

It’s should have been stopped when the Crimea was invaded, and because it wasn’t now Vladimir thought he could just do the same thing in the Ukraine. But, the jackass miscalculated the reaction of the world to his aggression this time and in the long run Russia and sadly the Russian people are going to suffer for this mistake.

Without the support of NATO, United States, along with the European Union and nonmember nations are standing up, but nit matter how you look at it without the US there is no NATO. Like I said in the beginning I understand the cost of our nations support to the Ukrainian conflict, but the destabilization of Europe isn’t going to go way so it’s better to stop it now than later.

Take a moment and think about this, every world war has started in Europe. If history is forgotten it will repeat itself and we are witnessing it happening right now!

JIMHO

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5 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

[...]

It’s should have been stopped when the Crimea was invaded, and because it wasn’t now Vladimir thought he could just do the same thing in the Ukraine. But, the jackass miscalculated the reaction of the world to his aggression this time and in the long run Russia and sadly the Russian people are going to suffer for this mistake.

[...]

Its a shame EU (and US) did little to nothing... Imposing sanctions (as per today) back then, and, most likely we won't be seeing $#!tstorm hitting Ukraine today.

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1 hour ago, bmk1245 said:

I don't think he knows russian...

On the news, Hungarian minister of foreign affairs Peter Szijjarto explains why Hungary decline to deliver weapons to Ukraine:

(full transcript)

Me, kinda, understands hungarians, landlocked country, but they've probably forgot 1956...

I can also understand the Hungarian position, however unfortunately staying neutral in 1930s they were still over run by Germany. It’s unbelievable to me how soon people forget European and World history and those who do forget pay a heavy price in the end. At this point in time Russian aggression must be stopped anyway necessary or else Vladimir Putin will destabilize Europe and cause a world war. There can be no cease fire that lets the Russians save face, the Russian people need to stand up and force Putin and his corrupt government out.

We can never allow the crap below to happen again because a world power decides to placate a dictator, the speech below is the most embarrassing of all time not peace in that time!:angry:

 

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2 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

Its a shame EU (and US) did little to nothing... Imposing sanctions (as per today) back then, and, most likely we won't be seeing $#!tstorm hitting Ukraine today.

I totally agree and that’s why we can allow Russia any advantage this time, my heart goes out to the Ukrainian people man I can feel their suffering and I have seen the plight of civilians in war zone first hand nothing is more terrible my friend.:(

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43 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

I remember when the first Iraq war started. The media showed “smart bomb” footage of missiles going through windows to precisely strike targets. It quelled public concern about indiscriminate bombing. The reality it such strikes were the very rare in the 85k tons of bombs we dropped on Iraq. 
 

By most estimates more than 3,000 civilians had been killed in the Donbas conflict prior to the invasion, Earlier in the war, it was still acceptable to acknowledge that these fatalities were caused by both sides. 

Dude, you first bring up that Russia had the right to invade because of all the Ukrainian NeoNazis, then you bring in the crap about the Ukrainian President and transsexual issues. It has been very obvious the only reason you are posting in this thread is to push your TRUMPIAN POLITICAL AGENDA. Just like your now deposed and defunct political leader you believe and support the Russian cause in this conflict.

I have read your political posts for some time now, so please don’t say you care about the Ukrainian people. If that were true you would care about all the people dying in the conflict not just those who have supported the Russian cause or who are caught up in and forced to be in Russian occupied territory. So please at least be honest and say what you really mean, don’t try to change your True Tone or comments on the matter.

You know and I know if your fearless leader was still President all this support would not be going to the Ukraine and that’s what you against !

Dude your not FOOLING anyone!

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20 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

[...]

We can never allow the crap below to happen again because a world power decides to placate a dictator, the speech below is the most embarrassing of all time not peace in that time!:angry:

 

Welll, history repeats, though Neville didn't asked for saving hitlers face...

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Myles said:

I am anti Russia all the way, but also am not in favor of spending so much money in and for the Ukraine.  We have needs here in the states that need addressed.  Sending more than any other country (by a wide margin) doesn't sit well with me.   i believe it is around $50 billion spent so far.  

The US has always paid a higher portion of NATO.

Something I think Trump had right was pressuring NATO members to contribute more.

I get your sentient. However, I feel like the money going to Ukraine has a larger impact than some of the other billions of dollars Congress spends. 

50 bill ain't much compared to the three historically massive bills during Covid.

And if Russia gets stopped at Ukraine it could save us money down the road in a few different ways. One being no more wars in eastern Europe.

Edited by spartan max2
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6 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

[...] TRUMPIAN POLITICAL AGENDA [...]

Excuse me, Sir, Trumpian political agenda delivered Javelins to Ukraine, which played major role in destroying many advancing russian armored vehicles/tanks, while former vice-president sent blankets...

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

[...]

Something I think Trump had right was pressuring NATO members to contribute more.

[...]

And he did it. None of the NATO (except US) countries were paying 2% of their GDP (as per agreement).

Today we have quite different picture, even teutons are painting their briefs in brown)))

 

Sorry, toast, pun intended.

 

PS some statistics on defense spending by NATO countries

link

Nice to see Lithuania isn't in the last row. And Germans still outside top10...

Edited by bmk1245
to add info
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3 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

You don’t have to demand anything, that’s his fall back position when he can’t backup his comments if you haven’t already noticed it!:D

Be well my friend

Hi Manwon

 Good to see you back and yes I know how he is in a discussion and seldom speak with him about his views as they are usually disjointed and unsupported. 
All the best to you,:tu:

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21 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Oh, look, it's Russia illegally mobilizing in occupied areas... I could swear pro-Russians were bemoaning possible legal mobilization in Ukraine, as some sort of unthinkable breach of snowflakes' rights... 

 

It's ironic that men working at a meat processing plant are now being fed into the Russian meat grinder.

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1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

I understand your point and it’s a good one. But, that comes with being a Super Power if we sit back and allow Russia with Chinese assistance destabilize Europe, Asia will be next and that will create a world war.

What do you think will happen then, if America sits back and stays neutral?

 

Oh, staying neutral would not be an option I would even consider.    I just would not have spent as much as they have.   The disparity is far too much, especially when the USA is not a target more than the other countries.  

image.png.761f58abb48f4f1fa993cfe6524247aa.png

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303432/total-bilateral-aid-to-ukraine/

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2 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

I'm not sure all those ~$50 billion will be spend on Ukraine. Main amount of that, I'm sure, will go to some worthless bs localy (in US) and diversity/equity bs in ukrainian army, not the weapons Ukraine needed months ago. We'll see...

Just my 2 cents...  

Hi Bmk

Yes a lot of that money is spent in the US to manufacture the weapons and supplies needed. It does stimulate the American economy and after Russia gets backed down much of Europe will benefit from rebuilding the Ukraine and it’s infrastructure.

Profit and development is a part of war

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7 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

Excuse me, Sir, Trumpian political agenda delivered Javelins to Ukraine, which played major role in destroying many advancing russian armored vehicles/tanks, while former vice-president sent blankets...

There is no need to excuse you at all you welcome to your opinion. But, here’s mine and also the opinion of many many members of the US Military our previous President was up to his eye balls in league with the Russians. Within the first year of his Presidency he destabilize NATO, and alienated all of Americas European Allie’s, any support to the Ukrainian Nation and People that came during his Presidency was forced upon him so that he did not have to show his true colors. If he had been re-elected NATO would be in pieces and any support for the Ukraine would be a European problem.

When Vladimir Putin invaded the Ukraine Trump praised his genius.

Don’t misunderstand me, I am also not a Biden Fan Boy either but he is allowing the military to do their job, something Trump never did. I have supported the American Republican Party all my life until Trump, now I doubt in all reality you have done the research I have on Trump and why would you your not American, I mean no disrespect only stating the facts as ‘I see them. 

Trump calls Putin 'genius' and 'savvy' for Ukraine invasion: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/23/trump-putin-ukraine-invasion-0001092

This is the real Trump Putin Relationship brothers from another mother or is that twins!:yes:

F06EED5C-0E7D-462E-BBE1-C0EFB5E29526.jpeg.914e609a121bd7c294ed441a915c6659.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Bmk

Yes a lot of that money is spent in the US to manufacture the weapons and supplies needed. It does stimulate the American economy and after Russia gets backed down much of Europe will benefit from rebuilding the Ukraine and it’s infrastructure.

Profit and development is a part of war

If that woul be true, I'd say nohing.

Thing is, with leftists spending spree, you'll have $24.371 billion spent on painting F-22 in rainbow colors, and similar stuff.

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16 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Manwon

 Good to see you back and yes I know how he is in a discussion and seldom speak with him about his views as they are usually disjointed and unsupported. 
All the best to you,:tu:

Same to my to my friend, I will be back for a little while.

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26 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

Excuse me, Sir, Trumpian political agenda delivered Javelins to Ukraine, which played major role in destroying many advancing russian armored vehicles/tanks, while former vice-president sent blankets...

So did the Turkish Bajraktars with even a better outcome.

BM, Neither Obama or Trump helped Ukraine. If there was an atempt then only for their own benefits. 

At the beginning of all this I asked not to fall into inner blame games on who did what or not between ourselves. Let us try to chase out the russian out of Ukraine and keep the baltics, balkans, europe, USA and rest safe.

Once Vladolf is defeted we can work to improve NATO, finances and strength.

Keep the focus on Russia.

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