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Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?


Grim Reaper 6
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24 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I've got no time for proper digging, but it seems at first glance that the poll originated at ntv, German weather channel. Then TASS, Russian news agency, gleefully presented it as the proof Ukraine will have to make concessions. 

The origin of the poll and it’s original reporting have been throughly examined in this thread. The poll was conducted by RTL and originally reported by N-TV.  
 

All the information you don’t have time to dig for is in the post (and it’s quoted content) at the top of this page.

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16 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

The origin of the poll and it’s original reporting have been throughly examined in this thread. The poll was conducted by RTL and originally reported by N-TV.  
 

All the information you don’t have time to dig for is in the post (and it’s quoted content) at the top of this page.

RTL is TV station too. So you wanted to say that RTL originally reported it, then ntv picked it up, then Russian TASS climaxed over it? 

Anyway, my point stands. 

By the way, mass graves in Mariupol are growing, satellite images show. This is what Russia brings, torment and death. You supported it, you called Ukrainians Nazis, you were in pro-Russian frenzy. I will never forget it or forgive it. Imagine what Ukrainians think of those like you.   

 

Now hop off, I really have few things to do first. 

Oh, wait, this can't wait: 

(Sending Russia to garbage dump of history is above politics. Everyone must unite. So we can argue in peace after we're done defending ourselves.) 

 

Edited by Helen of Annoy
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1 hour ago, el midgetron said:

What does Volodymyr Zelenskyy seek from the war and what concessions can he reasonably make?

As the Russian invasion of Ukraine enters its fifth month, many west European leaders, former government officials, and policymakers are calling for peace negotiations to end the war.

Many cite the certainty that many more Ukrainian civilians will die and that more destruction will be inflicted on the country, while one analyst repeated the argument that a prolonged war continues to cause a “higher risk of escalation . . . between Russia and NATO,” although there is as yet no sign of this happening. The pro-peace camp does seem to have a compelling argument — ending the conflict would not only secure peace in Europe, but it would also end the destruction of Ukraine’s cities, release grain stockpiles, cool commodity prices, and thereby global inflation, and allow the diplomats to replace the guns.

Who could possibly object?

Ukraine for a start. 
 

https://cepa.org/ukraines-terms-for-peace/

If Russia is having this much trouble subduing Ukraine, what are they going to do to NATO, bleed on us?

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19 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

If Russia is having this much trouble subduing Ukraine, what are they going to do to NATO, bleed on us?

I love Monty Python references. :lol:

Edited by Likely Guy
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The good news is that the hell now reaches deep into orc-infested territory. 

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Two different worlds. Glory to Ukraine. 

 

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3 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

The question whether territory should be exchanged for peace is false, by the way, because Russia wants all of Ukraine and once consolidated, it wants to continue the expansion.

You are contradicting yourself. I remember a few weeks ago you quoted an ISW assessment that Russia had exhausted all it's offensive capabilities in Ukraine by taking Severodonetsk.

If that is true then Russia will not be able to continue the expansion for much longer. That's usually where a conflict become frozen and agreements are signed.

Europe is increasingly inclined to endorse an agreement where the Donbass territories in eastern Ukraine would be under Russian control.

 

On 6/24/2022 at 1:06 PM, Helen of Annoy said:

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-23

Russian offensive operations will likely stall in the coming weeks, whether or not Russian forces capture the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area, likely granting Ukrainian forces the opportunity to launch prudent counteroffensives. The Kremlin’s ideological fixation on the capture of Severodonetsk, much like the earlier siege of Azovstal, will likely be to the ultimate detriment of Russian capabilities in future advances in Ukraine. The loss of Severodonetsk is a loss for Ukraine in the sense that any terrain captured by Russian forces is a loss—but the battle of Severodonetsk will not be a decisive Russian victory.

 

 

Edited by Occult1
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2 hours ago, The Silver Shroud said:

Russia’s parliament on Wednesday rushed through two bills imposing strict controls on the economy, requiring businesses to supply goods to the armed forces and obliging employees at some firms to work overtime.

Once signed into law by President Vladimir Putin, the bills will allow the government to introduce “special economic measures” during what the Kremlin calls its “special military operation” in Ukraine.

Russia's parliament passes sweeping wartime economic controls | Cyprus Mail (cyprus-mail.com)

Hi Silver

Odd our Krembots reporting live here at the forum tell us that Russia is hauling in cash by the truck loads and sanctions were useless and having no effect on the Russian economy

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15 hours ago, Occult1 said:

That's beside the point.

Ukraine is completely reliant on Western military support. If the weapons and ammunition deliveries are stopped, it's over.

No, no it really isn't. It's directly related to the point.

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All the arguing aside, where the hell is the UN Security Council??? There is an illegal invasion going on and I have yet to see any meaningful statements or action by them. 

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1 hour ago, Occult1 said:

You are contradicting yourself. I remember a few weeks ago you quoted an ISW assessment that Russia had exhausted all it's offensive capabilities in Ukraine by taking Severodonetsk.

If that is true then Russia will not be able to continue the expansion for much longer. That's usually where a conflict become frozen and agreements are signed.

Europe is increasingly inclined to endorse an agreement where the Donbass territories in eastern Ukraine would be under Russian control.

 

 

Hi Occult 

Would you negotiate with someone that cannot be trusted to live by the agreements when they have not lived up to previous agreements?

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25 minutes ago, Trelane said:

All the arguing aside, where the hell is the UN Security Council??? There is an illegal invasion going on and I have yet to see any meaningful statements or action by them. 

The UNSC is effectively neutered with Russia having a veto.

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35 minutes ago, Trelane said:

All the arguing aside, where the hell is the UN Security Council??? There is an illegal invasion going on and I have yet to see any meaningful statements or action by them. 

The five permanent members on the UN Security Council (including Russia and China) have veto power. So you can forget about "meaningful action" against them.

Edited by Occult1
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16 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Occult 

Would you negotiate with someone that cannot be trusted to live by the agreements when they have not lived up to previous agreements?

Neither Russia or Ukraine have lived up to the previous Minsk agreements. It still lasted 8 years. There will come a time when the war will need to 'end'. It might take years. But as it seems very unlikely that it will end with Russia withdrawing completely from Ukraine, some form of agreement or peace plan will need to be negotiated. Concessions will have to be made on both sides.

Edited by Occult1
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Just now, Occult1 said:

Neither Russia or Ukraine have lived up to the previous Minsk agreements. It still lasted 8 years. There will come a time when the war will need to 'end'. It might take years. But as it seems very unlikely that it will end with Russia withdrawing completely from Ukraine, some form of agreement or peace plan will need to be negotiated. 

What part of the agreement did the Ukraine break, do you mean by fighting Russian armed and financed separatists for 8 years. The Russians have never stopped trying to destabilize an independent self-governing country so no they never lived up to their agreement.

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34 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

The UNSC is effectively neutered with Russia having a veto.

Well, since the UN Security Council was intended for world powers to work together and not against each other, the veto power serves a purpose.

Edited by Occult1
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1 minute ago, Occult1 said:

Well, since the UN Security Council was intended for world powers to work together and not against each other, the veto power serves a purpose.

I see it structured in more of a "Do what I say, not as i do' sense.

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2 hours ago, Occult1 said:

You are contradicting yourself. I remember a few weeks ago you quoted an ISW assessment that Russia had exhausted all it's offensive capabilities in Ukraine by taking Severodonetsk.

I said "Russia wants", not "Russia can have". 

Russia is hauling cannon fodder to the front line in garbage trucks instead of APCs. 

Russia is firing anti-ship missiles at shopping centers. 

Russia is throwing every piece of soviet museum at Ukraine, illegally and forcefully mobilizing people in separatist area, cremating bodies of own dead to hide the extent of losses and deny compensation to families. 

Russia is dying in Ukraine. And it should be so. 

Look at confirmed maps, instead of Konashenko's fantasies. Look at numbers and positions of orc depots hit by Ukrainian new artillery. 

The storm is approaching and Russia wasted both weapons and men it will soon need for own defense. 

Russians are still pounding like the idiots that they are on long gone towns and villages. While their logistic ass in literally on fire. The further they advance, the longer their way back to the border will be. You can't guess what that means and I won't spoil your surprise. 

 

2 hours ago, Occult1 said:

If that is true then Russia will not be able to continue the expansion for much longer. That's usually where a conflict become frozen and agreements are signed.

This is not just "a conflict", this is the war, imperialist war Russia started by attacking Ukraine.

The only agreement Putin will be able to sign is the rate of reparations. 

Russia must be and will be defeated. They cannot be trusted or allowed to replenish their orc hordes and attack again. 

 

2 hours ago, Occult1 said:

Europe is increasingly inclined to endorse an agreement where the Donbass territories in eastern Ukraine would be under Russian control.

Europe is increasingly sending all kinds of weapons, because that's what Ukraine needs, guaranteeing support for Ukraine for as long as needed. 

But I'm not surprised that Russian media simply reversed the facts, it's usual for them.  

 

Putin made a mistake when he attacked Ukraine. It will cost him everything. Russia won't recover from the devastation which Putin inflicts on it. And it should be so. 

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1 hour ago, Trelane said:

All the arguing aside, where the hell is the UN Security Council??? There is an illegal invasion going on and I have yet to see any meaningful statements or action by them. 

Wonder why?  I really cannot understand why, it's like there is something blocking actions

Edited by godnodog
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45 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

The UNSC is effectively neutered with Russia having a veto.

Neutered by allowing some countries having veto power, no one should have veto power 

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13 minutes ago, godnodog said:

Neutered by allowing some countries having veto power, no one should have veto power 

Among all other things Putin managed to destroy, the UNSC is now officially defunct. 

 

edit: Forgot to say that Russia isn't USSR. They simply inherited USSR's seat, on the expense of all other former constituents of the USSR.  

Edited by Helen of Annoy
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18 minutes ago, godnodog said:

Neutered by allowing some countries having veto power, no one should have veto power 

It's easy to forget that the UNSC was set up to address the conditions that lead to WW2 so that it never happen again...

The five permanent members were the five main Allied powers in WW2.

Edited by Occult1
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2 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

It's easy to forget that the UNSC was set up to address the conditions that lead to WW2...

The five permanent members were the five main Allied powers in WW2.

I don't give a Boris Johnson about it, its 2022 veto powers should have gone away some time ago. I cam understand, for the time being and even so it's debatable, permanent seats.

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