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Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?


Grim Reaper 6

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Analysis: Saudi prince's Ukraine mediation signals 'useful' Russia ties - analysts

''RIYADH, Sept 23 (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia has won a diplomatic victory by securing freedom for foreign fighters captured in Ukraine, signalling the value of the crown prince's alliance with Russia to Western partners seeking to isolate Moscow over the war there, analysts say.

[...]

The move, apparently made possible by Prince Mohammed's carefully nurtured ties with Russian President Vladimir Putin, coincided with a prisoner exchange involving 215 Ukrainians and 55 Russians and pro-Moscow Ukrainians that Turkey helped broker.

Kristian Ulrichsen, a political scientist at Rice University's Baker Institute in the United States, said the working relationship between Saudi Arabia and Russia appears to have been a crucial element in the choice of intermediary.''

https://www.reuters.com/world/saudi-princes-ukraine-mediation-signals-useful-russia-ties-analysts-2022-09-23/

 

Seems useful not to cut all ties with Russia.

Edited by Occult1
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10 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Mexico foreign minister meets Russia's Lavrov to discuss Ukraine peace plan

 

''MEXICO CITY, Sept 23 (Reuters) - Mexican Foreign Minister Marcelo Ebrard said on Friday he met with his Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov to discuss a Mexican peace plan for the Ukraine conflict that he presented to the U.N. General Assembly this week.

Mexico has proposed a deal to halt the fighting but Ukraine opposes the plan which it says would be advantageous to Russia.

[...]

Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador said the committee would immediately start talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy to achieve "a truce of at least five years."

https://www.reuters.com/world/mexico-foreign-minister-met-with-russian-counterpart-discuss-mexican-peace-plan-2022-09-23/

If it involves concessions of land, not happening. Better men have tried and failed.

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12 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

If it involves concessions of land, not happening. Better men have tried and failed.

As long as we keep providing weapons to Ukraine, they will refuse to accept a peace plan.

Edited by Occult1
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Can't see a peace plan going ahead anytime soon and definitely not while Putin is in charge.  Zelensky tried at the start but the momentum at the time was all with the Russians and Putin wasn't interested.  Now the tables have turned and the Ukrainians want all their land back, while Putin is making referendum's to annex them.  Also, how can you negotiate a peace deal when you have mass graves?

At this point the war will only stop when Russia is defeated and Putin is removed but the most important consideration is that NATO hasn't invested all this money to defend the Ukraine for it to end in a fizzle.  Russians will have to pay for their invasion and crimes and unless they're defeated they won't. 

Obviously there is also the underlying motive, which will make the pro Russian crowd happy it's being acknowledged, that a defeated Russia removes an anti-democratic enemy for the world and NATO to worry about.  Either way, if Russia is defeated, Putin and his dictatorial Govt will be removed from power and yes, this is NATO rooting for a democratic political change in Russia, but contrary to what the pro Russian crowd like to believe, Russia initiated this so if a regime change happens, the Russians can only blame themselves for expecting the western world to stand by while they invaded a free and democratically elected sovereign nation.

Edited by Black Red Devil
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15 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

As long as we keep providing weapons to Ukraine, they will refuse to accept a peace plan.

If we stop providing water to our neighbour's house fire, their house will burn down.

Fight fire with fire.

 

Edited by Likely Guy
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14 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

As long as we keep providing weapons to Ukraine, they will refuse to accept a peace plan.

I say we keep pumping them weapons. 

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Russia's SWIFT alternative expanding quickly this year, central bank says

''KAZAN, Russia, Sept 23 (Reuters) - The reach of Russia's alternative to the SWIFT international messaging system has grown at record pace this year, the central bank said on Friday, as Moscow ramps up efforts to resolve financial shortcomings wrought by sanctions.

Sweeping Western sanctions on many of Russia's top banks in the wake of Russia sending tens of thousands of troops into Ukraine have sorely limited lenders' access to the global financial system. SWIFT underpins financial transactions globally.

[...]

"The System for Transfer of Financial Messages has shown expansion this year because more foreign participants have joined," Bakina told a banking forum in Kazan.''

https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/russias-swift-alternative-expanding-quickly-this-year-says-cbank-2022-09-23/

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Russian media: Armenia, Vietnam and Kazakhstan suspend use of Russian Mir cards

Vietnam and Kazakhstan have suspended transactions through the Russian payment system Mir, reported Russian state-controlled media Izvestia. According to Ukrainska Pravda, Armenian banks stopped accepting Russia's Mir cards and suspended money withdrawals for their holders on Sept. 20.

Turkey's largest private lender Isbank suspended transactions through the Russian system on Sept. 19. The decision came after the U.S. Treasury warned against financial institutions cooperating with the Russian operator. 

(link)

Another russky 'victory'...

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Putin invaded to put 'decent people' in Kyiv, says Italy's Berlusconi

''ROME, Sept 23 (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin was "pushed" into invading Ukraine and wanted to put "decent people" in charge of Kyiv, former Italian premier Silvio Berlusconi has said, drawing fierce criticism just ahead of Italy's election.

The Italian leader, whose Forza Italia party belongs to a right-wing coalition expected to win Sunday's parliamentary election on Sunday, is a long-time friend of Putin and his comments are likely to alarm Western allies.

"Putin was pushed by the Russian people, by his party, by his ministers to come up with this special operation," Berlusconi told Italian public television RAI late on Thursday, using the official Russian wording for the war.''

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-was-pushed-into-ukraine-war-says-italys-berlusconi-2022-09-23/

 

Seems Italy is becoming a Russian ally.

Edited by Occult1
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7 hours ago, Occult1 said:

Some people here literally made fun of the Iranian drones saying they were absolute cr*p. Mocking Russia for bowing to Iranian expertise. Well, clearly it seems they are among the best technologies in the world. A game changer on the battlefield.

Yet they're still getting shot down by the bucket load. Plus they will be sanctioned for sending them. I expect them to become very rare in the next few weeks. You sure this is the hill you want to die on?

I mean it's pretty obvious you're either a russian sympathizer, or a paid disinformationist. I say this because I checked your posting history, and you only post on this thread,  and its always to russian benefit. 

 

 

fark_lz1sqrMaD1NsNjZCFr0c54vMIcs.jpg

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On 9/22/2022 at 8:08 PM, razman said:

Don't worry man , i been reading , the aliens have disabled all the nukes. :)

Well, there's THAT, anyway ;)   Seriously though, as crazy as everything else is these days, having Vlad pop a Ukrainian city to make a point really wouldn't surprise me.  God only knows how our current uh, leadership, would react.

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5 hours ago, ThereWeAreThen said:

I'd love to see that right now. I honestly believe if troops were sent in Putler would back down, we havent given Ukraine as much as we could and its doing alot of damage to the invaders, i genuinely believe NATO would wipe the floor with Russia conventially and I dont think theyd use nukes for reasons I've already said. But tbh dude, with out risking a Trump/Biden debate (obviously this thread aint for that) I'm not sure Trump would do much different.

But that bolded part I'd love to see happen. But not only US troops but other NATO troops. **** if I was fit enough I'd go.

 

russian-bride-of-the-year-donald-trump-vladimir-putins-blushing-9435027.png

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On 9/23/2022 at 12:33 AM, Grim Reaper 6 said:

and there are no signs Putin is close to crossing the threshold.

He most likely wouldn't take the risk BUT, if it were to begin to look like his army was going to be summarily ejected from Crimea, who knows what he'd do?  Vladimir Vladimirovich has reigned supreme for decades by being the "strongman".  NOW, despite their best efforts, the word of Moscow's abject failure in prosecuting this war is beginning to spread.  Add to that the obvious lack of civilian will to be a part of his fight with Ukraine and the little tyrant just might surprise everyone. 

I was listening to a podcast today that took aim at explaining "the other side" (Russia's) and the guy is a former intel weenie and he seems convinced that once these sham referenda have been tallied and the invitation to be annexed is "accepted", the whole game gets changed overnight.  At that point an attack against any of those 4 regions would be considered to be an attack on Russia and that would justify full mobilization and the use of every weapon they possess.  Remember, he has enough armaments to lay total waste to all the cities in Ukraine.  He can literally raze cities without the use of nukes.

His partner in crime, Medvedev, recently said that even STRATEGIC nukes were on the table.  THAT, I think you'd admit, is a whole new category of "crazy".  The fact that neither he nor Xi really know who is calling the shots in DC adds another element of seriously troubling uncertainty.  When trying to decipher what Putin is apt to do or refrain from doing it would be well to remember that if he is perceived to lose a war where tens of thousands of young Russian men have been slaughtered, he isn't likely to live for long and he KNOWS it.

Edited by and-then
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36 minutes ago, and-then said:

He most likely wouldn't take the risk BUT, if it were to begin to look like his army was going to be summarily ejected from Crimea, who knows what he'd do?  Vladimir Vladimirovich has reigned supreme for decades by being the "strongman".  NOW, despite their best efforts, the word of Moscow's abject failure in prosecuting this war is beginning to spread.  Add to that the obvious lack of civilian will to be a part of his fight with Ukraine and the little tyrant just might surprise everyone. 

I was listening to a podcast today that took aim at explaining "the other side" (Russia's) and the guy is a former intel weenie and he seems convinced that once these sham referenda have been tallied and the invitation to be annexed is "accepted", the whole game gets changed overnight.  At that point an attack against any of those 4 regions would be considered to be an attack on Russia and that would justify full mobilization and the use of every weapon they possess.  Remember, he has enough armaments to lay total waste to all the cities in Ukraine.  He can literally raze cities without the use of nukes.

His partner in crime, Medvedev, recently said that even STRATEGIC nukes were on the table.  THAT, I think you'd admit, is a whole new category of "crazy".  The fact that neither he nor Xi really know who is calling the shots in DC adds another element of seriously troubling uncertainty.  When trying to decipher what Putin is apt to do or refrain from doing it would be well to remember that if he is perceived to lose a war where tens of thousands of young Russian men have been slaughtered, he isn't likely to live for long and he KNOWS it.

Nothing says "enough armaments" when anti-aircraft missiles (S300) being used to pound ground targets, or T-62 tanks thrown into battle, or conscripting 63 year olds...

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51 minutes ago, and-then said:

He most likely wouldn't take the risk BUT, if it were to begin to look like his army was going to be summarily ejected from Crimea, who knows what he'd do?  Vladimir Vladimirovich has reigned supreme for decades by being the "strongman".  NOW, despite their best efforts, the word of Moscow's abject failure in prosecuting this war is beginning to spread.  Add to that the obvious lack of civilian will to be a part of his fight with Ukraine and the little tyrant just might surprise everyone. 

I was listening to a podcast today that took aim at explaining "the other side" (Russia's) and the guy is a former intel weenie and he seems convinced that once these sham referenda have been tallied and the invitation to be annexed is "accepted", the whole game gets changed overnight.  At that point an attack against any of those 4 regions would be considered to be an attack on Russia and that would justify full mobilization and the use of every weapon they possess.  Remember, he has enough armaments to lay total waste to all the cities in Ukraine.  He can literally raze cities without the use of nukes.

His partner in crime, Medvedev, recently said that even STRATEGIC nukes were on the table.  THAT, I think you'd admit, is a whole new category of "crazy".  The fact that neither he nor Xi really know who is calling the shots in DC adds another element of seriously troubling uncertainty.  When trying to decipher what Putin is apt to do or refrain from doing it would be well to remember that if he is perceived to lose a war where tens of thousands of young Russian men have been slaughtered, he isn't likely to live for long and he KNOWS it.

I hope he doesn’t cross the line and use any type of Nuclear Weapons because I honestly don’t know where it will end. As far as Xi is concerned it appears he doesn’t what any part of the conflict in recent days he has criticized Putin concerning the war in the Ukraine. There is no doubt the voting in the Northern Ukraine will pass because the Government will allow nothing else. But, you could be right if the vote passes the Russians will certainly claim any attack will be a provocation against Russia itself. Yet, this entire conflict has been a war against Russia and no matter the outcome of the vote the international community will not recognize those areas as Russian soil.

All I can say is I hope the internal pressure inside Russia may cause enough problems for Putin that he may be forced to reconsider his position. Like I have said in previous post the United States has Nuclear Weapons prepositioned in Europe and I don’t believe any of us can say for certain that the situation will escalate. 

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4 hours ago, Occult1 said:

As long as we keep providing weapons to Ukraine, they will refuse to surrender.

Fixed your typo.

3 hours ago, Occult1 said:

Seems Italy is becoming a Russian ally.

Because Signore Bunga Bunga is known for his astute political insight.

And the fact that he hasn't held office in Italy for 11 years.

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"Conservative" (with more-less far right rhetoric) political options are on the rise or already in power in several EU countries. But none of them, except Orban (Hungary), is stupid enough to actually support putler. 

Von der Leyen said that the EU has the necessary tools to control the governments that do not respect the rule of the law (not some newfangled EU law, but the laws of each sovereign country rooted in the Western values - democracy is being protected, in short). Personally, I'm not sure they can be made to respect the rule of law in their countries, but they can be made to choose between doing exactly that, or exiting the Union. Exiting the Union is not a popular choice - for example, when the first batch of Italian "populists" ended up in power (the current ones are slightly different flavor) they promptly dropped their anti-EU rhetoric. When Polish turbo-conservatives mentioned abandoning the EU, hundreds of thousands of Poles materialized in the streets, protesting and promptly made polls showed up to 90% in favor of the EU (I know it's sounds too high to be real, but polls by various researches kept showing such extremely high percentage against leaving the Union). 

Yet it may happen that one or more of "conservative" political options in EU countries decides to leave the EU. In which case they'll be sucked up into putler's "russian world" zone, towards which Hungary is heading slowly - it wasn't kicked out the EU because the EU has no mechanism for kicking a member state out of the Union, but it can't just keep on introducing totalitarian rule and being a back door for putin because the EU has the mechanisms that do stop internal sabotages. So while the EU can protect itself from Orban's putlerian sabotages, it cannot heal the situation in Hungary. It's up to the population. It will be the same with each country that elects parties that turn out to be putlerian stooges. 

(In my own country, the president exposed himself as a pro-russian. It was a shock because he successfully hid that fact during the campaign. Fortunately, presidents in my country have decorative purpose, handing out medals and showing up at state dinners and funerals. Otherwise, if he had any real power, my country would suffer actual, possibly irreparable damage, against the will of very plausible majority of population, which will never forget that we had to fight for freedom against pro-russian greater serbian aggression.)

To sum it up, abandoning the EU and NATO in favor of "russian world" is not just a matter of politics, it's a matter of sanity. Not just because the dirty russian money that used to prop various populists and similar businessmen in EU countries is drying up. It's also that russia is evidently, by their own admission, in the war against the West. That war is a hybrid one, using all areas of life as a weapon - energy, food, information, everything. Any westerner who is supporting putin is a literal traitor in a very real, albeit not officially declared war. And the way russians show their "gratitude" to traitors who worked for them can be seen in Ukraine today - they simply abandon their collaborators. Just like that. 

It will be the same with regimes that collaborate with putin. They'll be left to deal with the consequences of their treason, alone. To my morbid satisfaction, to be honest.  

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While russian cannon fodder gets two weeks of training, rotten kalash and a black bag. 

But I don't cry too hard over them, because they mostly don't think their war against Ukraine is wrong. They just complain about the poor conditions. Stealing an Ukrainian washing machine after raping, torturing, mauling and murdering the owners would make it right.  

 

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I don't think that rusty kalash propaganda support brigade can fully understand just how ****ed they are ^_^  

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_207558.htm

3.         We reaffirm our unwavering support for Ukraine’s independence, sovereignty, and territorial integrity within its internationally recognized borders, and for Ukraine’s inherent right to self-defence. NATO Allies remain resolute in providing political and practical support to Ukraine as it continues to defend itself against Russia’s aggression.

4.         NATO is a defensive Alliance and will continue to strive for peace, security, and stability in the whole of the Euro-Atlantic area. We stand united to defend and protect every inch of Allied territory.

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Bit of history

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Orban: The Man Whose Cannon Brought Down the Walls of Constantinople – Part I

For 53 days, starting on Friday, 6 April, the forces of the Ottoman Empire shook what was left of the Eastern Roman Empire (known as Byzantium, or the Byzantine Empire ) until they were able to breach the massive walls of Constantinople on Tuesday 29 May 1453, conquering the last standing remnants of the once mighty Roman Empire. The conquest of Constantinople could have been drastically different were it not for a man by the name of Orban and his massive cannon. 

(link)

Hmmm, I wonder, whether nowadays Orban has some family ties to that medieval Orban. Would explain few things...

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