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Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?


Grim Reaper 6
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3 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Neutralization would solve that problem. Both the US/NATO and Russia would not need to fear a neutral Ukraine.

A non-aligned state does not need to be under any 'nuclear umbrella'.

Unfortunately, due to Vladdy's bloodlust that has proven to be exactly why Ukraine needs to be under the protection of NATO. His regime will likely crumble but who's to say another sadistic autocrat won't take his place? 

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3 minutes ago, Trelane said:

Unfortunately, due to Vladdy's bloodlust that has proven to be exactly why Ukraine needs to be under the protection of NATO. His regime will likely crumble but who's to say another sadistic autocrat won't take his place? 

Here's how the war could be ended tomorrow:

  • Removal of NATO accession aspiration from the constitution of Ukraine and replacement with an article, promising the country’s permanent neutrality according to the Swiss or Austrian models. This includes the promise to never station foreign troops on Ukrainian soil—neither NATO nor Russian.
  • Survival of the current political leadership of Ukraine and uninfluenced political elections in the future.
  • Access to foreign (western) weapon systems, albeit only of defensive nature, a.k.a. no stationing of offensive military equipment.
  • Removal of the Azov battalion from Ukraine’s national guard and maybe a cap on the size of the Ukrainian army, like the cap imposed on Germany during the reunification process.
  • A roadmap for the reintegration of the Donbas regions into the body politic of Ukraine in conjunction with a strong federalization of the state (a revived Minsk agreement).
  • The recognition of Crimea as part of the Russian Federation.

https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2022/03/25/what-a-neutralization-of-ukraine-actually-means/

 

Both sides will need to make compromises.

Edited by Occult1
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I can vaguely hear Jim Morrison singing something about the end...

"Putin’s Empire Starts to Crumble"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-s-empire-starts-to-crumble/ar-AA12iNnE?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b9930d94914f4dbfa374e15cd1d9ab33

"Vladimir Putin spent decades modernizing his army and building his empire, ruthlessly asserting control over Russia’s border states through force, intrigue and economic might. Now the cream of his military has been destroyed or is bogged down in Ukraine: hundreds of his once-parade-worthy tanks rusting away as burned-out hulks in wheat fields while thousands of his best soldiers will never return home. Beset by sanctions, his economy survives mainly through energy exports: Putin’s enemies continue to buy hundreds of billions of dollars of gas and oil from Moscow, principle and even self-interest sacrificed to keep the lights on in European cities. The invasion of Ukraine is an increasingly obvious disaster for Russia’s dictator. He simply doesn’t have the bandwidth or resources to deal with another international crisis effectively, and everyone knows it. "

Russia is losing its empire by trying to tighten its grip.”

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7 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Neutralization would solve that problem. Both the US/NATO and Russia would not need to fear a neutral Ukraine.

A non-aligned state does not need to be under any 'nuclear umbrella'.

Here's how the war could be ended tomorrow:

  • Removal of NATO accession aspiration from the constitution of Ukraine and replacement with an article, promising the country’s permanent neutrality according to the Swiss or Austrian models. This includes the promise to never station foreign troops on Ukrainian soil—neither NATO nor Russian.
  • Survival of the current political leadership of Ukraine and uninfluenced political elections in the future.
  • Access to foreign (western) weapon systems, albeit only of defensive nature, a.k.a. no stationing of offensive military equipment.
  • Removal of the Azov battalion from Ukraine’s national guard and maybe a cap on the size of the Ukrainian army, like the cap imposed on Germany during the reunification process.
  • A roadmap for the reintegration of the Donbas regions into the body politic of Ukraine in conjunction with a strong federalization of the state (a revived Minsk agreement).
  • The recognition of Crimea as part of the Russian Federation.

https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2022/03/25/what-a-neutralization-of-ukraine-actually-means/

Being neutral got Ukraine invaded.  Now that the Russian government has shown they cant be trusted and are essentially a rabid animal they need put down like one.

Russia is simply a threat to the world and peace in general and needs dealt with so they cant be a threat again.

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6 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Here's how the war could be ended tomorrow:

  • Removal of NATO accession aspiration from the constitution of Ukraine and replacement with an article, promising the country’s permanent neutrality according to the Swiss or Austrian models. This includes the promise to never station foreign troops on Ukrainian soil—neither NATO nor Russian.
  • Survival of the current political leadership of Ukraine and uninfluenced political elections in the future.
  • Access to foreign (western) weapon systems, albeit only of defensive nature, a.k.a. no stationing of offensive military equipment.
  • Removal of the Azov battalion from Ukraine’s national guard and maybe a cap on the size of the Ukrainian army, like the cap imposed on Germany during the reunification process.
  • A roadmap for the reintegration of the Donbas regions into the body politic of Ukraine in conjunction with a strong federalization of the state (a revived Minsk agreement).
  • The recognition of Crimea as part of the Russian Federation.

https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2022/03/25/what-a-neutralization-of-ukraine-actually-means/

Funny, I don't see anything about the total withdrawal of Russian forces from all lands illegally invaded/annexed since 2014. Without that it's a foolish proposal that won't be accepted by the Ukrainian people. They have seen their strength and resolve is too much for that bully. He has to resort to more brutal tactics. Mobilize (draft) his country for the first time since WW2. Threaten global destruction with nuclear war. Only a coward would capitulate to this madman now. Unfortunately for Vladdy Boy, President Zelensky has the the majority of the international community on his side.

Edited by Trelane
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5 minutes ago, Trelane said:

Funny, I don't see anything about the total withdrawal of Russian forces from all lands illegally invaded/annexed since 2014. Without that it's a foolish proposal that won't be accepted by the Ukrainian people.

No foreign troops would be allowed to station on Ukrainian soil, neither NATO nor Russian.

Also, under this proposal Ukraine gets to keep the Donbass region although as part of a federalized state, which would be a major concession from Russia.

Edited by Occult1
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13 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Here's how the war could be ended tomorrow:

  •  

Hi Occult

Or they could just stop and go home and mind their own business before they fall apart from within their homeland.

Current amounts of people that are trying to get out are making a strong statement to their fellow citizens. Arresting them at borders and conscripting them only adds fuel to the fire so who know who they will be shooting with those rusty rifles.

Two incidents of shootings with recruitment personnel were killed and offices burnt in days wait a month or two and there may be a civil insurrection that will end this war and the people behind it.

Win or lose the war crimes trials will clean up some as well.

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2 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

No foreign troops would be allowed to station on Ukrainian soil, neither NATO nor Russian.

Also, under this proposal Ukraine gets to keep the Donbass region although as part of a federalized state, which would be a major concession from Russia.

Still wouldn't be accepted. The Ukrainian people are motivated and focused. They will get their entire country back. Even if it means filling the streets with the blood of innocent draftees who have been betrayed by their beloved dictator.

This isn't even a conversation at this point. The atrocities discovered in the wake of reclaiming land has shown that they must take back everything and free those subjected to the horrors of the Putin regime there.

Plus , at this point I foresee that NATO will gladly accept them as a means of further strength and deterrence.

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Zelenskyy calls for funding, security guarantees after Russia's "sham" referenda

''United Nations — Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy spoke live by video conference on Tuesday to world powers at the U.N. Security Council, slamming the illegitimate votes that Russia is forcing on citizens in occupied Ukraine. His speech came as Moscow-backed officials declared that all four regions voted in favor of joining Russia.

[...]

In response to Russia's actions, Zelenskyy called on nations to completely isolate Russia by removing it as a permanent member of the Security Council — with the right of veto — and excluding it from all international organizations; impose stronger sanctions against Russia; send Ukraine necessary defense and financial support; and give Ukraine "clear and legally-binding guarantees of collective security."

https://news.yahoo.com/zelenskyy-calls-funding-security-guarantees-002800731.html

 

Funding, security guarantees, weapons, ammunitions... Should West just accept that Ukraine can no longer fight this war?

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4 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Zelenskyy calls for funding, security guarantees after Russia's "sham" referenda

''United Nations — Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy spoke live by video conference on Tuesday to world powers at the U.N. Security Council, slamming the illegitimate votes that Russia is forcing on citizens in occupied Ukraine. His speech came as Moscow-backed officials declared that all four regions voted in favor of joining Russia.

[...]

In response to Russia's actions, Zelenskyy called on nations to completely isolate Russia by removing it as a permanent member of the Security Council — with the right of veto — and excluding it from all international organizations; impose stronger sanctions against Russia; send Ukraine necessary defense and financial support; and give Ukraine "clear and legally-binding guarantees of collective security."

https://news.yahoo.com/zelenskyy-calls-funding-security-guarantees-002800731.html

 

Funding, security guarantees, weapons, ammunitions... Should West just accept that Ukraine can no longer fight this war?

Simply put, No.

This is how we assist our friends, allies and countries who have been illegally invaded. That's how "the West" is being responsible without escalation. We are giving the Ukrainians everything they need to defeat the lying, murderous Russian forces., AND THEY ARE WINNING!

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14 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Funding, security guarantees, weapons, ammunitions... Should West just accept that Ukraine can no longer fight this war?

Russia is importing weapons from Iran and there was rumors of North Korea supplying Russia with weapons and ammunition so does that also mean Russia can no longer fight this war too

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Some Russian telegram groups are saying the Ukranian military has broken the Russian defensive line and now controls Tors'ke, still unconfirmed.

If Lyman has been surrounded that will at minimum be a couple thousand Russian soldiers lost.

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As if the news hasn't been bad for Vladdy already, the US will be sending the Ukrainian military some more firepower to drive back the illegal invasion. I can't confirm this, but these new items may get there sooner than 2 months.

"Advanced anti-aircraft weapons head to Ukraine in 2 months"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/advanced-anti-aircraft-weapons-head-to-ukraine-in-2-months/ar-AA12jEeU?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=3354f10b15074dac900e312161f16764

"The Pentagon will deliver the first two advanced NASAMS anti-aircraft systems to Ukraine in the next two months, providing Kyiv with a weapon that it has pressed for since earlier this year. "

"Air Force Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder told Pentagon reporters on Tuesday that six more of the Norwegian-developed weapons will be delivered in the future, as much as a year or two from now. Recent reports that some of the U.S.-provided NASAMS were already in Ukraine were not correct."

"The NASAMS will provide medium- to long-range defense against Russian missile attacks. Their impending delivery comes as Russia tries to rebound from recent combat losses and politically solidify gains by holding referendums in four occupied regions in the south and east."

These will be additional game changers for the Ukrainian military as they retake their country.

Edited by Trelane
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So Vladdy boy wants rattle his rusty sabers? Ok then,  we'll be your Huckleberry...

"EUCOM commander: 'Unprecedented level of alliance planning' by NATO for Ukraine war"

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/courage-strength-optimism/eucom-commander-unprecedented-level-of-alliance-planning-by-nato-ukraine-war?utm_source=msn&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=msn_feed

"Russia’s war in Ukraine precipitated NATO’s “unprecedented level of alliance planning for defense,” Army Gen. Christopher Cavoli, the Supreme Allied Commander Europe and commander of U.S. European Command, said on Tuesday. Russian President Vladimir Putin has used a supposed threat from NATO as justification for invading Ukraine , and he hoped to divide the alliance, but the war has had the opposite effect."

“It was the [Deterrence and Defense of the Euro-Atlantic Area] strategy that enabled allies to rapidly strengthen NATO's deterrence and defense posture in all domains before and after the Russian invasion of Ukraine in a coherent and purpose-driven manner,” Cavoli explained during Tuesday's virtual Center for European Policy Analysis Forum. "This strengthened posture is now shielding NATO allies, and it reduces the risk of the conflict widening. It also both reflects and reinforces our alliance's unity.”

"In discussing their strengthened posture on the eastern flank of the alliance, he said, “This force is complemented by national forces and totals over 150,000 troops. These land forces are supported by a very significant number of air and maritime forces, including air and missile defense capabilities. Our forces are at a high level of readiness, and we have a strategically advantageous posture.”

"NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg announced in late June that NATO will increase its level of high-readiness force troops to “well over 300,000,” describing the plan as “the biggest overhaul of our collective deterrence and defense since the Cold War.”

"Other changes announced at the time included additional pre-positioned equipment and stockpiles of military supplies; more forward-deployed capabilities; strengthening command and control; and upgrading defense plans. These forces, Stoltenberg added, will work with local military forces and will become familiar with the terrain and facilities preemptively so that they can respond more quickly."

 

Be very careful Vladdy, your trigger finger may not be fast enough. Not nearly as fast as you think.:tu:

Edited by Trelane
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1 hour ago, Occult1 said:

Here's how the war could be ended tomorrow:

  • Removal of NATO accession aspiration from the constitution of Ukraine and replacement with an article, promising the country’s permanent neutrality according to the Swiss or Austrian models. This includes the promise to never station foreign troops on Ukrainian soil—neither NATO nor Russian.
  • Survival of the current political leadership of Ukraine and uninfluenced political elections in the future.
  • Access to foreign (western) weapon systems, albeit only of defensive nature, a.k.a. no stationing of offensive military equipment.
  • Removal of the Azov battalion from Ukraine’s national guard and maybe a cap on the size of the Ukrainian army, like the cap imposed on Germany during the reunification process.
  • A roadmap for the reintegration of the Donbas regions into the body politic of Ukraine in conjunction with a strong federalization of the state (a revived Minsk agreement).
  • The recognition of Crimea as part of the Russian Federation.

https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2022/03/25/what-a-neutralization-of-ukraine-actually-means/

 

Both sides will need to make compromises.

This is effectively communicating that all Russia needs to do is fight a non-NATO country long and hard enough to wear them down to a point where a compromise will be reached (or a surrender), giving them easier access to the land they want to acquire. Basically just letting them get away with an illegal invasion.  

NATO only factors into this so much as they act as a hurdle preventing Putin from rebuilding the USSR—he has made it abundantly clear that he believes the dissolution of the USSR to be one of the greatest tragedies in history, hence why he has his eyes set on the former USSR states. We must not allow that kleptocratic, expansionist tyrant to take and keep any land in Ukraine. 

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2 hours ago, Occult1 said:

What would prevent China from using it's right to veto? Or should we kick out any country that does not agree with U.S.-led imperialism?

Chinese envoy says isolation and sanctions will lead to 'dead end' in meeting over Russia's referendums

https://www.reuters.com/world/chinese-envoy-says-isolation-sanctions-will-lead-dead-end-meeting-over-russias-2022-09-27/

No, they should kick out countries that breach international law on a massive scale again and again. But you're right, China could use their veto.  As Likely guy suggests the world needs a proper world Organisation, not this UN joke.

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41 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

 

"Lust for Death and Destruction..." 

Note: music added to the video reminiscent of the ISIS videos from Syria

Edited by acidhead
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7 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

No, they should kick out countries that breach international law on a massive scale again and again. But you're right, China could use their veto.  As Likely guy suggests the world needs a proper world Organisation, not this UN joke.

Hi Black

Might work if it included unsanctioned activities with reprisals that are mandated and agreed upon membership.  Changes in government in all member government must uphold their agreement no matter what.

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25 minutes ago, acidhead said:

"Lust for Death and Destruction..."

Hi Acid

In a war like this very few cheer death it is war the Ukrainians are fighting for their earned independence and not raping, torturing, civilians then bury them in mass graves in poor little defenceless Russia.

Yes I am glad to see a plane with one or two go down as they could potentially kill or wound hundreds to thousands of civilians. The more tools of destruction including military base that the Ukraine destroy the more lives they save on both sides of the conflict.

Look at how much intact equipment the Russians left behind, are they sympathizers trying to help and now can know even before they see a uniform will have called the hotline to surrender.

Interesting thought though is if enough of them surrendered how many might enlist to save their new found freedom.

Edited by jmccr8
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OOOF!!!!! The continued collosal missteps by Putin are truly something to behold. At some point one would think that someone would make him stop making so many bone headed decisions that keep making things increasingly difficult.

"Japan pulls rug from under Russia with ban on chemicals as Tokyo issues nuclear warning"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/japan-pulls-rug-from-under-russia-with-ban-on-chemicals-as-tokyo-issues-nuclear-warning/ar-AA12il9a?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=14017cf7a7884aeaceaea35c1f8b6d74

"Japan has banned exports of chemical weapons-related goods to Russia in an additional sanction against Moscow over its invasion of Ukraine. And in the wake of Vladimir Putin's belligerent speech last week, Chief Cabinet Secretary Hirokazu Matsuno yesterday said Tokyo was "deeply concerned" about the possible use of nuclear weapons."

"Mr Matsuno has also lodged a vociferous protest about the detention of a Japanese consular official in Vladivostok whom Russian secret service officials claim was "caught red-handed" spying."

"Japan also added 21 Russian organisations such as science labs as the target of existing export bans, according to a government statement released after yesterday's cabinet meeting, which formally approved the new sanction measures announced by Mr Matsuno at a Group of Seven meeting last week."

 

Not good Vladdy, not good at all. 

Edited by Trelane
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46 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

No, they should kick out countries that breach international law on a massive scale again and again. But you're right, China could use their veto.  As Likely guy suggests the world needs a proper world Organisation, not this UN joke.

There is already the NATO organization. But a proper world Organization should include all countries, not just pro-Western ones.

Edited by Occult1
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