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Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?


Grim Reaper 6
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6 hours ago, Occult1 said:

Here's how the war could be ended tomorrow:

  • Removal of NATO accession aspiration from the constitution of Ukraine and replacement with an article, promising the country’s permanent neutrality according to the Swiss or Austrian models. This includes the promise to never station foreign troops on Ukrainian soil—neither NATO nor Russian.
  • Survival of the current political leadership of Ukraine and uninfluenced political elections in the future.
  • Access to foreign (western) weapon systems, albeit only of defensive nature, a.k.a. no stationing of offensive military equipment.
  • Removal of the Azov battalion from Ukraine’s national guard and maybe a cap on the size of the Ukrainian army, like the cap imposed on Germany during the reunification process.
  • A roadmap for the reintegration of the Donbas regions into the body politic of Ukraine in conjunction with a strong federalization of the state (a revived Minsk agreement).
  • The recognition of Crimea as part of the Russian Federation.

https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2022/03/25/what-a-neutralization-of-ukraine-actually-means/

 

Both sides will need to make compromises.

Sure if Russia;

- exits all illegally ccupied territory 

- creates full referendum to all of its republics, and under international scrutiny 

- surrenders Putin for war crimes 

- disbandes all non conventional weapons and ammunition 

- ilegalization of all neo nazi organizations, Warner group for example

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

It doesn`t work like that though.

There is no legal approach to remove a permanent member, and to create the framework for doing so requires Russia not to veto it.

What would be the purpose of removing them anyway? To impose sanctions? Nations impose sanctions anyway.

Yes it does. The UNSC adopts a Resolution after a majority vote by at least 8 of the 15 Council Members (who rotate every two years) and isn't vetoed by any of it's Permanent Members.

Correct, currently there is no process to remove a permanent member, which is the reason the UN is a useless toothless tiger

Imposing sanctions through UNSC Resolutions means all Members need to adopt the decisions made in the Resolution.  Failure to do so by any Member means that Member could be on the receiving end of sanctions by other nations itself.

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5 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Black

Might work if it included unsanctioned activities with reprisals that are mandated and agreed upon membership.  Changes in government in all member government must uphold their agreement no matter what.

Yeah that will also work.  The biggest joke currently is the vetoing privilege Permanent Members get. 

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4 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Yeah that will also work.  The biggest joke currently is the vetoing privilege Permanent Members get. 

Only way to cure that is if all the non-permanent members withdraw from UN membership and leave.

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23 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Yes it does. The UNSC adopts a Resolution after a majority vote by at least 8 of the 15 Council Members (who rotate every two years) and isn't vetoed by any of it's Permanent Members.

Correct, currently there is no process to remove a permanent member, which is the reason the UN is a useless toothless tiger

Imposing sanctions through UNSC Resolutions means all Members need to adopt the decisions made in the Resolution.  Failure to do so by any Member means that Member could be on the receiving end of sanctions by other nations itself.

Actually, just checked.  It requires 9 Members to vote in favour for a Resolution to be adopted and the 5 Permanent Members are part of the 15 Council Members.  So, of the 10 non Permanent Members (who rotate each 2 years) 4 would have to vote in favour for a Resolution to be adopted because the 5 Permanent Members need to vote unanimously if favour. If any Permanent Member vetoes, then it doesn't really matter how non Permanent Members voted.  Under Article 41 of the UN Charter, chapter VII, the adopted resolution is binding (meaning legally enforceable).

As far as expelling a nation from the UN, although it's never occurred, Article 6 of the Charter allows such action but it requires unanimous consent by its 5 Permanent Members....LOL.  LINK

The process:

  1. The General Assembly may expel a member from the United Nations.
  2. But a Security Council vote to expel a member of the United Nations is required before the General Assembly can vote on it. 
  3. That preliminary council vote requires the unanimous consent of its permanent members. 
  4. Russia is a permanent member. 
  5. Russia will exercise its veto to prevent the General Assembly from having the opportunity to vote on its own expulsion.

 

There you go, if you have a headache after reading all of this, I didn't force you to read it.  Next time put me on Ignore. :P

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31 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Only way to cure that is if all the non-permanent members withdraw from UN membership and leave.

and organise something better.  The UN concept is good, it's just the whole process needs an overhaul.

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1 hour ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

On another forum I was informed that it's a parody. Still funny though.

Sadly so. Says something that I made it nearly a minute in before being sure it was a parody.

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Putin expected to proclaim annexation of Ukraine territory within days

''ZAPORIZHZHIA — Moscow moved closer on Wednesday to annexing a swath of Ukraine, releasing what it called vote tallies showing support for four partially occupied provinces to join Russia, after what Kyiv and the West denounced as illegal sham referendums held at gunpoint

The Russian-installed administrations of at least two of the four provinces, Luhansk and Kherson, formally asked President Vladimir Putin to incorporate them into Russia.

The Kremlin leader is expected to proclaim the annexation in a speech on Friday, just over a week since he endorsed the referendums, ordered a military mobilization at home and threatened to defend Russia’s claims with nuclear weapons.''

https://torontosun.com/news/world/putin-expected-to-proclaim-annexation-of-ukraine-territory-within-days

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Meduza is one of the extremely rare independent Russian media. They're in exile, of course. 

They asked russian professional soldiers (and even a mercenary creep from Wagner) what they think of this new mogilization and war in Ukraine in general.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1575144420701356033.html

 

One said that on his first day in Ukraine he realized he made the worst mistake in his life. 

He also realized that they, russians, are the fascists in this war.

Cannon fodder won't change a thing. They'll just die in droves. 

"They (russian regime) don't have any arguments for why is NATO bad - they just repeat it."

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1 hour ago, Occult1 said:

Putin expected to proclaim annexation of Ukraine territory within days

''ZAPORIZHZHIA — Moscow moved closer on Wednesday to annexing a swath of Ukraine, releasing what it called vote tallies showing support for four partially occupied provinces to join Russia, after what Kyiv and the West denounced as illegal sham referendums held at gunpoint

The Russian-installed administrations of at least two of the four provinces, Luhansk and Kherson, formally asked President Vladimir Putin to incorporate them into Russia.

The Kremlin leader is expected to proclaim the annexation in a speech on Friday, just over a week since he endorsed the referendums, ordered a military mobilization at home and threatened to defend Russia’s claims with nuclear weapons.''

https://torontosun.com/news/world/putin-expected-to-proclaim-annexation-of-ukraine-territory-within-days

Do you think its democratic to have a referendum in an area after a major part of the population have been forced to flee before the vote ?

Do they not deserve to be part of the decision ?

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When someone is "just being objective and neutral" and supports putin, this is what these creeps support: 

 

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26 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Do you think its democratic to have a referendum in an area after a major part of the population have been forced to flee before the vote ?

Do they not deserve to be part of the decision ?

Russia is nothing but a quasi-democratic autocracy. Nothing about their practices are actually democratic, beneath the surface; it is all about trying to gain whatever Western support they can, if at all. An attempt to seem legit while being perfectly illegitimate, if you will.  Putin literally edited legislature to enable him 20 more years in office, a while back. 

Even if most of them didn’t flee I would still refute these referenda, as they are being applied to illegally occupied states and would not be considered valid due to the potential threat of violence should they choose the opposition.

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The number of russians captured by Ukraine is ridiculously big, but Ukraine wants their people back, all of them, as soon as possible, no matter what. Hence the "all for all" format. Ukraine doesn't care for disparity in numbers, Ukraine wants everyone of their own (Ukrainian or foreigner) back.   

It will be harder to get abducted Ukrainian children back. International community will have to help. The perpetrators are known, the identities of children are known, there must be a way to force russia to return them.  

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I am so, so sorry that our (Croatian) contribution is so modest. The howitzers are ancient, but they served us well so I hope they'll serve Ukraine well too. I don't just hope, I know. Ukrainians turn every weapon into a superweapon.

We sent some other little things too. Not to run my mouth too much. There will be time after the war, to talk at length :D 

What I'm truly proud of are our volunteers who fight for Ukraine. They're the best weapon we've got. Our mindset is a lot like Ukrainian. Glory to those who won't return and thank you Ukraine for putting as much effort into returning my countryman home, as you do in returning your own. Because we are our own, all of us. 

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20 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Russia is nothing but a quasi-democratic autocracy. Nothing about their practices are actually democratic, beneath the surface; it is all about trying to gain whatever Western support they can, if at all. An attempt to seem legit while being perfectly illegitimate, if you will.  Putin literally edited legislature to enable him 20 more years in office, a while back. 

Even if most of them didn’t flee I would still refute these referenda, as they are being applied to illegally occupied states and would not be considered valid due to the potential threat of violence should they choose the opposition.

I know. I was trying to get @Occult1 to justify the obviously undemocratic Russian actions.

If he is against democracy I wish he would admit it. Atleast that would be honest.

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1 hour ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Do you think its democratic to have a referendum in an area after a major part of the population have been forced to flee before the vote ?

Do they not deserve to be part of the decision ?

The vast majority of the residents that are still there support annexation to Russia. That's enough justification for Putin to defend these territories with the full brunt of the Russian military.

Do I believe these results are an example of impeccable democracy? No. But Ukraine isn't either.

Edited by Occult1
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Actually, having thought about it, I think it might be Britain.

Truss passes a crazy budget, we destroy the pipes, EU eco collapses, and our businesses take up the slack. That will ruin the imperial ambitions of the Franco-Prussians lmao.

I say that because the budget on its own is bizarre.

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10 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Do I believe these results are an example of impeccable democracy? No. But Ukraine isn't either.

Just more whataboutisms.

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12 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

The vast majority of the residents that are still there support annexation to Russia. That's enough justification for Putin to defend these territories with the full brunt of the Russian military.

Do I believe these results are an example of impeccable democracy? No. But Ukraine isn't either.

So what you are saying is that the opinion of the people who were forced to flee the war doesn't matter and it's okay to be undemocratic if others are doing it too ?

 

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4 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

So what you are saying is that the opinion of the people who were forced to flee the war doesn't matter and it's okay to be undemocratic if others are doing it too ?

 

Let's not forget that the referendums are not intended to convince Westerners, who are obviously against anything Russia is doing.

They are intended to convince Russians, that there are enough of their people in those 4 regions that need to be protected. That Putin is doing the right thing for their nation.

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2 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

They are intended to convince Russians, that there are enough of their people in those 4 regions that need to be protected. That Putin is doing the right thing for their nation.

You have a pretty low opinion of russians. If that convinces Russians than Russians are pretty dumb. 

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