Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?

[odas]

1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Faux disinfo victims, here's what you'd know if you were informed by actual news instead of Putin's agitprop: 

 

The EU has announced a sanctions plan. They note that other sanctions are possible in case the invasion occurs.

The sanctions are aimed at:

• 351 members of the Russian parliament who supported the recognition along with 11 people who proposed it
• Banks that finance Russian military and other operations in these areas
• The ability of the Russian state and government to access EU capital and financial markets and services
• Trade from the two breakaway regions in the EU and from the EU

 

 

 

First reactions to escalation of Ukrainian crisis (and let it be repeated that the escalation was Putin's one-sided decision), from around the world: 

 

Germany: German Chancellor Olaf Scholz shut down the Nord Stream 2 pipeline 

United Kingdom: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has unveiled the "first tranche" of British sanctions on Russia. The United Kingdom will sanction five Russian banks and three people 

European Union: The European Commission has proposed sanctions to EU member states similar to those following the 2014 annexation of Crimea.

United States: Following the first set of sanctions announced Monday, the White House said it would impose additional "significant" sanctions on Tuesday. 

Turkey: President Recep Tayyip Erdogan condemned Russian President Vladimir Putin's decision to recognize the breakaway eastern Ukrainian territories, calling it "unacceptable" and saying it was contrary to the Minsk agreements.

Looks like I was wrong about Turkiye. Never been happier to be wrong.

[Helen of Annoy]

13 minutes ago, odas said:

Looks like I was wrong about Turkiye. Never been happier to be wrong.

I was pleasantly surprised too. 

It looks like whatever it was that clouded Putin's mind, it's not contagious  

[+Nuclear Wessel]

Parliament just passed use of Russian military force "abroad", with Donbas being mentioned as one area that needs to have "peace secured".

[Helen of Annoy]

28 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Parliament just passed use of Russian military force "abroad", with Donbas being mentioned as one area that needs to have "peace secured".

Oh, today he needs approval of the Parliament? He didn't need one yesterday.

It's almost like he's making up rules as he goes. 

 

[spartan max2]

Just now, Helen of Annoy said:

Oh, today he needs approval of the Parliament? He didn't need one yesterday.

It's almost like he's making up rules as he goes. 

 

It's the dictator way. You go through proper channels as much as you can so you can claim legitimacy. But once the proper channels do not do what you want than you just do it anyways and say you don't need them.

[spartan max2]

2 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Faux disinfo victims, here's what you'd know if you were informed by actual news instead of Putin's agitprop: 

 

The EU has announced a sanctions plan. They note that other sanctions are possible in case the invasion occurs.

The sanctions are aimed at:

• 351 members of the Russian parliament who supported the recognition along with 11 people who proposed it
• Banks that finance Russian military and other operations in these areas
• The ability of the Russian state and government to access EU capital and financial markets and services
• Trade from the two breakaway regions in the EU and from the EU

 

 

 

First reactions to escalation of Ukrainian crisis (and let it be repeated that the escalation was Putin's one-sided decision), from around the world: 

 

Germany: German Chancellor Olaf Scholz shut down the Nord Stream 2 pipeline 

United Kingdom: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has unveiled the "first tranche" of British sanctions on Russia. The United Kingdom will sanction five Russian banks and three people 

European Union: The European Commission has proposed sanctions to EU member states similar to those following the 2014 annexation of Crimea.

United States: Following the first set of sanctions announced Monday, the White House said it would impose additional "significant" sanctions on Tuesday. 

Turkey: President Recep Tayyip Erdogan condemned Russian President Vladimir Putin's decision to recognize the breakaway eastern Ukrainian territories, calling it "unacceptable" and saying it was contrary to the Minsk agreements.

I truly hope sanctions work. But I am skeptical

[L.A.T.1961]

Interesting the importance placed on Nord stream 2 and Germanys reluctance to include it in sanctions, up to now.

It has not supplied gas to Europe or revenue for Russia. The effects on European energy supplies is zero. 

Now if it was suggested that Nord Stream 1 was turned off as part of sanctions that would be a different proposition and a financial blow to Russia. 

[Helen of Annoy]

7 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I truly hope sanctions work. But I am skeptical

The "starting" package of sanctions wouldn't work. It is there to show him that this time he'll get proper sanctions for real.

[Helen of Annoy]

5 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

Interesting the importance placed on Nord stream 2 and Germanys reluctance to include it in sanctions, up to now.

It has not supplied gas to Europe or revenue for Russia. The effects on European energy supplies is zero. 

Now if it was suggested that Nord Stream 1 was turned off as part of sanctions that would be a different proposition and a financial blow to Russia. 

Germany is seriously planning different ways of supplying natural gas. They had enough of Putin's ****. 

It involves building own LNG terminals (it will take a while), buying more through existing and adding more connections to terminals in neighbouring countries (this can and will be done at record speed).  

Medvedev just threatened with outrageous prices, which is only making it more certain that Germany will immediately further drop the amounts of Russian gas they're buying.  

For some idiotic reason, Russia was keeping gas export to minimum lately. They wanted to prove their gas is not reliable, I suppose? Anyway, Germany sent some of it back, just to make a point. 

 

As anyone sane was saying, Russian natural gas was convenient, but it is not a lever that can control Germany or the EU. While the gas money is the lever that can break Russian economy. 

[Electric Scooter]

This is all Gods work.

First he gave us Brits Brexit, now he is going to sink the German economy for us so we can once again rise the greatness!!! No oil or gas into Germany and the EU will collapse.

Bloody marvellous!! Dont do anything silly Boris, let them fight each other, we keep out of it.

[odas]

2 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

This is all Gods work.

First he gave us Brits Brexit, now he is going to sink the German economy for us so we can once again rise the greatness!!! No oil or gas into Germany and the EU will collapse.

Bloody marvellous!! Dont do anything silly Boris, let them fight each other, we keep out of it.

You need help. Please find a good shrink. Dr.Abdallah Abdallah will fix you for free.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

1 hour ago, spartan max2 said:

I truly hope sanctions work. But I am skeptical

They won't.

[Helen of Annoy]

34 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

They won't.

That's the spirit   

Kidding, of course. 

The alternative is war. 

 

Giving peace a chance (yes, I know how it sounds) simply has to be done, even if you know that chance is almost certain to fail.  

I think it's wrong interpretation that just because sanctions will be the first reaction, there is nothing else to follow. It's just that sane people would love to avoid that stuff that might follow. 

[DarkHunter]

14 hours ago, and then said:

If Putin rolls in as violently as we're hearing, I hope the majority of nations sanction the hell out of Russia.  So far, it looks like Biden isn't going to do much of anything.  I don't support putting U.S. troops into the fray but we should hammer his ass with crippling sanctions if he tries to take the whole country.  He has already called the events in eastern Ukraine a "genocide" and today I saw a piece claiming there is a mass grave in one of the breakaway provinces.  If he isn't seriously resisted now, he'll eventually step over the line and try his plans against Poland.  In THAT situation, I'd support going kinetic on him.  Most here will disagree with me but I do not believe Vlad would have gone this far if anyone OTHER than Brandon was in the big chair.

Sanctions wont do much to Russia.  There are countries like China, Iran, Syria, and Venezuela which wont apply sanctions for any number of reasons.  Then there are the European countries that wont apply any significant sanctions as that would risk sending their own economies into recession.  Even then when sanctions are looked at they target individuals generally and not generally entire sectors of the Russian economy which would be required for them to actually be effective.  Even then Russia has been sanctioned for so long the Russian economy is more or less immune to it anyway.

One of the biggest issues in all of this and one issue that keeps returning is a massive failure to communicate effectively and understand the opposition.  America and Europe continue to assume other countries care about law, order, protocol, diplomatic efforts, ect when the reality is the countries we have problems with simply dont care about those things, frequently they view those things as a sign of weakness.  Until America and Europe understand that not everyone shares their same values and learns how to communicate with these nations similar problems will keep arising.

[Grey Area]

8 hours ago, The Silver Shroud said:

Brexit shows how soft power and propaganda can try to destroy whole contintents, not just countries, politically and economically. No one but an idiot would vote to make themselves poorer, considerably poorer, and more vulnerable to global trade difficulties, to ensure the richest elite 5% got richer, but Brexit shows the power of social media. The UK did just this.

 

8 hours ago, The Silver Shroud said:

I wasn't going to mention Brexit ever again, but @Grey Area made me react. Brexit is part of the process:- destabilise and weaken the West. For once the Express has got it right, although they are arguing the wrong point as usual:

Speaking to a fellow diplomat, Mr Yakovenko reportedly said: "We have crushed the British to the ground.

"They are on their knees, and they will not rise for a very long time."

'We have crushed the British to the ground!' Russian ambassador's words after Brexit vote (msn.com)

Oh please!  You just couldn’t F’in resist could you?

If you want to subscribe to the ‘Brexit was a Russian plot’ narrative then fine that’s a freedom you can enjoy.  But in that case, let’s not dodge the elephant in the EU room, with several countries very cosy with Russian state owned power companies literally floating entire GDP reliant industries, and then tally those countries with actual useful aid provided to Ukraine.

I did not bring up Brexit, I responded to a comment about it, and very clearly Brexit has not changed defence spending nor its commitment to NATO or its military allies.  By suggesting the U.K. commitment to Ukraine is affected by Brexit is exactly the type of thing that would make Putin smile.

I’ll not comment further on this in this thread as this is a seriously critical situation that Ukraine faces and it deserves better than a ‘I hate Brexiteers’ diversion.

[Electric Scooter]

38 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

That's the spirit   

Kidding, of course. 

The alternative is war. 

 

Giving peace a chance (yes, I know how it sounds) simply has to be done, even if you know that chance is almost certain to fail.  

I think it's wrong interpretation that just because sanctions will be the first reaction, there is nothing else to follow. It's just that sane people would love to avoid that stuff that might follow. 

There is international law to obey.

If he goes into the rest of the Ukraine thats aggressive warfare. Thats automatic death penalty if ever he is captured. At the moment he is in the grey area where nothing legally can really be done. Except sanctions.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

29 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

There is international law to obey.

If he goes into the rest of the Ukraine thats aggressive warfare. Thats automatic death penalty if ever he is captured. At the moment he is in the grey area where nothing legally can really be done. Except sanctions.

Significant sanctions against the oligarchs will be instated tomorrow. Russia won't be able to use the West for finances--can't use debt from European/US markets. He is deploying troops (already stationed in Europe) to Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia.

[Helen of Annoy]

50 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Until America and Europe understand that not everyone shares their same values and learns how to communicate with these nations similar problems will keep arising.

You (not you personally) have got no right (oh, screw that, right?) or means (now that is the problem) to go around clubbing presidents deemed too uncivilized for diplomacy. Do you notice the irony of that idea? 

Recent Western diplomatic efforts were not naive, they were necessary. 

 

Putin cares about diplomatic rituals, to the unhealthy extent. It's vanity and that vanity of his may be and is used in variety of ways. He's so interested in public appearances he couldn't resist all those meetings so now the whole world knows he's afraid of people near him. Maybe just fear of Covid, but it's so hilarious that he needs literal 20 yards away from anyone. 

[DarkHunter]

55 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

You (not you personally) have got no right (oh, screw that, right?) or means (now that is the problem) to go around clubbing presidents deemed too uncivilized for diplomacy. Do you notice the irony of that idea? 

Recent Western diplomatic efforts were not naive, they were necessary. 

 

Putin cares about diplomatic rituals, to the unhealthy extent. It's vanity and that vanity of his may be and is used in variety of ways. He's so interested in public appearances he couldn't resist all those meetings so now the whole world knows he's afraid of people near him. Maybe just fear of Covid, but it's so hilarious that he needs literal 20 yards away from anyone. 

Putin cares about strength, he didnt send Lavrov, a man known for demeaning, degrading, insulting, and trying to embarrass foreign government officials cause he was interested in a diplomatic solution.

All these western diplomatic efforts have done is buy Russia more time to prepare for the invasion of Ukraine.  Sanctions should have been started months ago, the families of the oligarchs living in the west should of had visas revoked and sent back to Russia months ago, a mobilization and deployment throughout the Baltic, Poland, Romania, and Bulgaria should of been done months ago.  Diplomacy failed, it had no chance of working since Putin was never interested in a diplomatic solution to begin with.

I will say and criticizing anyone or anything I want, I honestly dont care for your opinion at all.  You have shown repeatedly to be overly emotional and borderline delusional in a lot of your views, particularly geo-political ones.

Edited February 22, 2022 by DarkHunter

[Electric Scooter]

News Russian signs $100 billion coal deal with China and $80 billion oil deal.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Cookie Monster

[+OverSword]

Some good insight and theories in this video

 

[spartan max2]

1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

That's the spirit   

Kidding, of course. 

The alternative is war. 

 

Giving peace a chance (yes, I know how it sounds) simply has to be done, even if you know that chance is almost certain to fail.  

I think it's wrong interpretation that just because sanctions will be the first reaction, there is nothing else to follow. It's just that sane people would love to avoid that stuff that might follow. 

I personally think if we all had troops massed in Ukraine that it would of worked as a deterrent to war. But no one really wanted to do that 

[+Nuclear Wessel]

32 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Maybe just fear of Covid, but it's so hilarious that he needs literal 20 yards away from anyone. 

It's a power move - nothing more, nothing less. I find "fear of COVID" to be very unlikely for Putin, as he is most likely vaccinated as much as he possibly can be.

[DarkHunter]

Russia has started evacuating diplomatic staff out of Ukraine and it seems the Russian embassy in Ukraine has started destroying documents.  

Vehicles belonging to the Russian national guard have been spotted in Belarus, most concerning are the prisoner transport trucks with the white Z painted of them.  For those that dont know a white Z has been appearing on Russian military vehicles around Ukraine.  Recently white triangle or a white circle has also been seen on some vehicles.  Growing amount of people online think the letters/shapes correspond to different fronts the vehicles are being sent to as vehicles with the same markings are congregating together near the border.

[Indiogene]

On 02/02/2022 ... I predicted this 20 days ago when I talk to my family and friends about current events ... 02/22/2022. There IS going to be a war in the Russian-Ukrainian border and Russia has now taken over to possibly annex the Donbas region like they have or did in the Crimea peninsula 8 years ago. (BTW, this is my 3300th recorded UM post, whatdayaknow).

Edited February 22, 2022 by Solipsi Rai