Russia Masses Military Equipment Near Ukraine Borders: A Prologue to WWIII?

[Myles]

3 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

.

Either Russia looses and Putin goes, or Ukraine looses and sues for peace. But as we supply better and better weapons the only way Russia can win is if it nukes. I guess Biden hopes that Putin isn`t that crazy.

I think this conflict results in open war between NATO and Russia.

There is some legitimacy to that.  The enemy will use bigger weapons if their enemy does.  We don't know how far this will go or how long it will take.  This could be a long battle and I hope Russia does not resort to Nukes.

[odas]

16 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

The conflict is now entering the dangerous stage.

The one when NATO starts gifting current generation weapons to Ukraine so Russia throughs a wobbly. The US, UK, and France are safe. But I would hate to be a NATO member in Central or Eastern Europe right now. They are the ones who will get it if Russia throws its dummy out of the pram.

This conflict feels different to me, I really do think we are seeing the start of WW3. There is a certain excitement at it too, although I hope I am on the survivor list if it totally hits the fan.

You are missing the point that exactley those eastern european countries are pushing NATO and the west to help Ukraine. The one thing that is worse for those countries than a nuke is living again under russia rule. They know how it is, you don't. Poland, Czech, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Romania...they help as much they can.

 

[Occult1]

Conflict with West 'almost a real war', says Russia

The conflict between Russia and the West is "almost a real one," Russia's foreign minister has said, as he criticised Western nations for sending arms to Kyiv.

Sergei Lavrov, speaking during a trip to South Africa, said that the conflict could no longer be defined as a "hybrid war" and was closer to a real one.

"When we speak about what is happening in Ukraine - it is a war, not a hybrid one, almost a real war, that the West has been plotting for a long time against Russia," he said.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/01/23/ukraine-russia-war-latest-news-leopard-tanks-germany-boris-johnson/

 

Should the West keep pushing for war with Russia?

[spud the mackem]

21 hours ago, and-then said:

I don't find anything humorous at all about the slaughter.  You people treat this at times like it's a game.  Go and fight, then come back and preach to the rest of us.  I think that everyone in this thread who salivates for the death of thousands of guys who'd rather be ANYWHERE other than Ukraine, have themselves become mentally ill and are on their way to being as evil as they claim Russians are.  I see no difference at all.  

I don't agree with your statement , no one especially mums ,dads ,brothers ,sisters want to be advised that their soldier boy has been killed in a useless war that satisfies no one , Putin has almost wiped out the next generation of boys and men who are forced into a war , he has a lot to answer for to his own people , but no doubt that he will take his millions of roubles to a country that has no extradition rules , like a lot of Germans did when they went to Argentina after WW2 .                                                                      It's not a Game when people die .

[Helen of Annoy]

17 hours ago, Occult1 said:

Scholz has every reason to be cautious. The EU's stockpiles are depleted.

 

Scholz is not cautious. He's the opposite of that. He's recklessly risking Germany's position in attempt to seize his opportunity to inflict damage to NATO. So let's hope German industry will object to that, on top of SPD's coalition partners. 

Regarding "depletion", if EU companies are not interested in churning out equipment at rate that will suit the demand, more business there will be for American and South Korean companies. (See how Poland solved the problem of politicized and - yes, it is an oxymoron - "peacenik" conditions in contracts with German military industry, and deliberately unrealistically long waiting times. They bought American and South Korean.) And it would result with EU countries relying on imported weapons instead of own production, which would take the profit away from EU military industry in the long run too (tanks bought today will be maintained for literally decades), which means that there will be increased production in EU industries too (since they don't want to go out of business), which means it will be a political problem in a few years because russia will cease to exist while we'll be armed to the teeth so various peaceniks will b**** and moan about the astronomical military expenses.   

Edited January 23 by Helen of Annoy

[Helen of Annoy]

7 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

I think I heard on the news today that Germany would approve of Poland sending Leopard tanks.  True or not true do you know?

German Foreign Minister said publicly that Germany won't object if Poland sends Leopards to Ukraine. She's from Green party, a coalition partner of Scholz's SPD and it means SPD is being pressed by coalition partners to stop being a russian b**** (I posted that some pages ago if that wasn't deleted too.)

That's good enough on one hand, for immediate Ukrainian defence needs. 

But on the other hand, the official decision on official release of tanks will be made "soon", as well as the official decision on Germany sending (or not) Leopards from their own army inventory. Someone mentioned they'd give 19 or so, which are currently used to represent the enemy in exercises. (Yes, it does sound like someone is passively-aggressive there.) 

[Helen of Annoy]

 

[spud the mackem]

14 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Josep Borrell is a High Representative of the Union (EU) for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy.  What he is saying is despite an increase in Defense the combined EU expenditure is still under the 2% of the combined EU GDP @ 1.2%.  All he is doing is playing politics by exacerbating a problem to increase funds to an area of his convern. 

The other thing is the EU HAS the money to increase Defense expenditure.  Russia?  Less and less by the minute.

No one is going to attack the E.U. unless its some country wanting to cease existing , as there will be 30 + other countries piling in to help , so I don't understand why the E.U. are getting themselves worked up about what might happen when it won't . Obviously Germany is Crapping itself in case they are attacked by Russia . 

[Helen of Annoy]

14 minutes ago, spud the mackem said:

No one is going to attack the E.U. unless its some country wanting to cease existing , as there will be 30 + other countries piling in to help , so I don't understand why the E.U. are getting themselves worked up about what might happen when it won't . Obviously Germany is Crapping itself in case they are attacked by Russia . 

Generally, I think you're right, EU would be well defended, but to nitpick a little, it's not that simple, or certain, that EU won't be attacked. russia is dying but it still can create who knows what. (Incidents with Kaliningrad, blowing up Balkans, using Hungary as proxy, attacking Poland and/or Baltic etc - a year ago, I'd call all such scenarios insane, but now I call them not likely but entirely possible.)

In any conceivable scenario russia loses, but it's not unthinkable that russia would - out of pure malice - attempt to inflict damage and kill civilians, in particular in countries that were once trapped in USSR or Warsaw pact.  

Germany has Poland as the guarantee they won't see any russians. Otherwise, judging by everything seen in the last year, they'd fall without fight. *facepalm*

 

Read fast, this will probably disappear too   

[Electric Scooter]

24 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Generally, I think you're right, EU would be well defended, but to nitpick a little, it's not that simple, or certain, that EU won't be attacked. russia is dying but it still can create who knows what. (Incidents with Kaliningrad, blowing up Balkans, using Hungary as proxy, attacking Poland and/or Baltic etc - a year ago, I'd call all such scenarios insane, but now I call them not likely but entirely possible.)

In any conceivable scenario russia loses, but it's not unthinkable that russia would - out of pure malice - attempt to inflict damage and kill civilians, in particular in countries that were once trapped in USSR or Warsaw pact.  

Germany has Poland as the guarantee they won't see any russians. Otherwise, judging by everything seen in the last year, they'd fall without fight. *facepalm*

 

Read fast, this will probably disappear too   

I am 80% sure Putin will decide that if Russia cannot have it, neither can NATO.

Meanwhile those people caught between both with be mutating extra eyeballs and limbs from all the radiation.

[Helen of Annoy]

 

[Helen of Annoy]

1 minute ago, Cookie Monster said:

I am 80% sure Putin will decide that if Russia cannot have it, neither can NATO.

Meanwhile those people caught between both with be mutating extra eyeballs and limbs from all the radiation.

I'm 100% certain that 100% of russian nukes weren't maintained. That 100% of people around poopler don't want to die, and 107% certain that poopler, being a narcissist, wouldn't commit suicide. Ever. 

But I don't even care. There's literally nothing russia or any of its b****es can come up with that would make me even consider tolerating them in any shape or form, ever again. Not to mention surrendering to these sacks of genocidal ****. Surrender to russians, make agreements with russians - if you want to die an uglier death. 

"Negotiating" with russians means being defrauded by default. There are two kinds of people who still waffle about that: peacenik cretins unaware they're russian tools and pro-russian cretins aware they're working for poopler.  

[Helen of Annoy]

I mentioned this before, but it is very important in the context of understanding what exactly makes russia different than countries which it attacks: 

out of 50,000 prisoners "wagner" lured with promises of money and pardon, to go kill, rape, torture and loot in Ukraine, only 10,000 are still alive. 

They are being thrown into meat grinder at Bakhmut (Soledar included) without proper gear, just thrown there in attempt to overheat Ukrainian guns. Literally.  

 

edit to correct: not all of them died, some deserted. And hopefully headed back to russia. Armed. Some will creep into other countries, like that maggot who walked into Norway. 

Edited January 23 by Helen of Annoy

[Helen of Annoy]

Oh, russians sent air support to their unwashed horde in Bakhmut.

The results: two Su-25 shot down over Soledar and 1 "Alligator" helicopter shot down over Bakhmut. 

The total number of Su-25 russians lost this year is 8.    

[Helen of Annoy]

Estonia plans to block the Gulf of Finland for russia. It will significantly increase the length of journey from russia to Königsberg (they call it Kaliningrad), which even soviets were supposed to leave couple decades ago. What is russia still doing there is a mystery.  

[Helen of Annoy]

I'm aware it's Poland, not Ukraine, but I'm also aware of all the implications and they're glorious.

 

[Myles]

1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I'm 100% certain that 100% of russian nukes weren't maintained.

I'm 100% certain that you do not know that.  

I would say much of their Nuke arsenal was not maintained.

[Helen of Annoy]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

I'm 100% certain that you do not know that.  

I would say much of their Nuke arsenal was not maintained.

You did phrase this more accurately. (I was playful, replying to Cookie.)

It also doesn't matter what I know, all that matters is what obvious reality is. russia didn't maintain anything and russia doesn't maintain anything. Their gargantuan military budget ends up siphoned into oligarchs' pockets. 

So even if they find a nuke that works, they've got no way to prevent retaliation or even the destruction of their army by conventional means. (See Pantsir on top of russian MoD in moscow as an example how russian mind and military work. It still didn't crash through the roof, but they added two more, so it's a matter of hours. lol. cretins.)  

Which is why they won't and if they do, they're gone. 

[Helen of Annoy]

But don't read this, they want to keep it secret  

Of course, the outcome might be "no", but I somehow think that they wouldn't accidentally mention secret meetings in front of reporters if it wasn't likely a "yes". Call me an optimist. 

 

[Helen of Annoy]

 

Combine this with the fact that the EU doesn't need russian natural gas, that russian oil is now being sold for the price even lower than the price cap, which cap will be lowered further, and there goes russia bankrupt. 

Not right away, but soon enough. russia did the stupidest, most delusional and hopefully most devastating self-own in history  

[Helen of Annoy]

russia now claims that HIMARS are hidden in Ukrainian nuclear power plants. 

Which is why Ukraine needs more of anti-aircraft systems. 

 

I'll drop a few more later, if I'm not banned or blocked from posting in this thread in the meantime, of course.  

[Helen of Annoy]

 

 It will rain disassembled orcs in near future. More than usual, that is. 

Which means russia will need more cannon fodder. Which means they'll start the general mobilization. Which means Ukraine will need even more weapons, while russia needs tougher sanctions, confiscated property and a naval blockade too. 

[Gunn]

12 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

There was never anxiety, on my end.

Now I can't believe you just posted this and shot yourself in the foot like this. Man are you serious? Hell in your first posts you were talking about how things were going to be terrible and horrible all this was going to be, and the world was going to burn because of - yes your favorite subject - NUKES! And In some other posts to paraphrase you 'Putin is insane, he's crazy, if he gets pushed to far, nukes, nukes, nukes,etc, and you kept going on and on about that. Hell, In one post you were talking about how you and your girlfriend were looking into getting MREs man! I'm looking at one of other posts right now, post #4636, were you were saying you weren't so nervous before, but now you are really nervous because of the higher threat of nukes, nukes,nukes. Come on man! It's not that big a deal. We were all a little nervous/having a little anxiety about it at first, and we got over it. Hell, after a while, I really got over it and knew he wasn't going to launch nukes.

Edited January 23 by Gunn

[Helen of Annoy]

You know that expression, "when the pigs fly"? Well, they are... only I can't post it here  

[Unusual Tournament]

…just a general observation about this war concerning SAM use. The price of these missiles is astronomical. Upwards of half a million for an IRST-T to a million dollars for each missile. You can really do some financial damage to an adversaries budget by using a $20,000 loitering drone to tie up a million dollar  missile. Surely there has to be a cheaper way to destroy this threat in a cost effective manner