A Ukrainian woman interviewed by the French media calls her government a “corrupt puppet”

[el midgetron]

I don’t speak French so I can’t verify the subtitles but the few words I recognize do correspond to the subtitles. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by el midgetron

[zep73]

It's just Russian propaganda. Ignore it.

[Helen of Annoy]

Hey, midge, see my signature. 

[quiXilver]

Such a tool.  Perhaps find a new hobby Troll.

[el midgetron]

3 hours ago, zep73 said:

It's just Russian propaganda. Ignore it.

It’s fake? 

2 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Hey, midge, see my signature. 

I can’t see anyone’s signatures. However, I can imagine yours with quite clarity.

1 hour ago, quiXilver said:

Such a tool.  Perhaps find a new hobby Troll.

I was able to find collaboration of mistrust in the 2014 Ukrainian elections and reports of systemic corruption. What do you do in your free time?

Quote

Other irregularities include 100,000 votes that were cast early, ballot box stuffing, says de Vuyst. “Even the television reports show that people were allowed to vote pretty much at will. They didn’t have to show ID. They didn’t have voter rolls to compare names with. People could vote for their neighbors. And they even allowed one reporter from the other side of the country to vote.”

de Vuyst adds, “It’s clearly not a legitimate referendum. In Kiev, the attitude is that it’s pretty much a farce.”

 

https://www.mnnonline.org/news/election-fraud-ukraine/

https://voxukraine.org/en/election-fraud-in-2014-parliamentary-elections/

 

[zep73]

9 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

It’s fake?

Propaganda is much more sophisticated than simple forgery.

Quote

Propaganda is communication that is primarily used to influence an audience and further an agenda, which may not be objective and may be selectively presenting facts to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is being presented.^[1] Propaganda can be found in news and journalism, government, advertising, entertainment, education, and activism^[2] and is often associated with material which is prepared by governments as part of war efforts, political campaigns, health campaigns, revolutionaries, big businesses, ultra-religious organizations, the media, and certain individuals such as soapboxers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by zep73

[el midgetron]

21 minutes ago, zep73 said:

Propaganda is much more sophisticated than simple forgery.

So Russia has a Ukrainian women spreading Russian propaganda in the French media? ….Don’t you think it’s maybe a little more plausible that you just disagree with her? Exactly how familiar with Ukraine were you before last week?

[el midgetron]

Hey Zep, I found more Russian propaganda. This time in the NYP

Quote

Originally thought to be a puppet of the oligarch Kolomoisky, Zelensky rebranded himself as a crusader against oligarchs, just as he had evolved from being a native Russian-speaker brought up in pro-Russian eastern Ukraine into more of a nationalist.

https://nypost.com/2022/02/24/who-is-ukraines-president-volodymyr-zelensky/

Edited March 3, 2022 by el midgetron

[zep73]

13 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

So Russia has a Ukrainian women spreading Russian propaganda in the French media? ….Don’t you think it’s maybe a little more plausible that you just disagree with her? Exactly how familiar with Ukraine were you before last week?

5 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Hey Zep, I found more Russian propaganda. This time in the NYP

https://nypost.com/2022/02/24/who-is-ukraines-president-volodymyr-zelensky/

Mark Twain once said: It's easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled.

You sir, are in denial.

[el midgetron]

27 minutes ago, zep73 said:

Mark Twain once said: It's easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled.

You sir, are in denial.

Right, I’m not the one claiming to know the truth. I posted this under the pretext I thought it was an interesting perspective, one acknowledge from the start that I couldn’t verify due to the language barrier. Never mind that. My post was met by a chorus of  “Toll” and “propaganda”, none of which has been dignified with any sort of demonstration to the fact. However, I have since then been able to find collaboration to elements of this woman’s  story.

Sorry, if this woman’s perspective hurts your feelings. If you can show this to be propaganda rather than something you just don’t want to recognize, I would be very interested in it, 

Did you even watch the videos? As for your claim that it is Russian propaganda, it seems kinda strange that she also criticizes Putin and acknowledges that he would just install his own puppet in Ukraine….. 

Reality isn’t black and white. The first casualty of war is the truth, 

Edited March 3, 2022 by el midgetron

[zep73]

2 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

The first casualty of war is the truth, 

On that we can agree.

It seems blatant to me that it's Putinganda, not to you. I'll keep my eyes open to see if someone trustworthy investigates the story. Until then I'm out.

[el midgetron]

3 minutes ago, zep73 said:

On that we can agree.

It seems blatant to me that it's Putinganda, not to you. I'll keep my eyes open to see if someone trustworthy investigates the story. Until then I'm out.

The Putinganda I’ve heard is that Russia is “denazifying” Ukraine. Not that Putin wants his own puppet installed in Ukraine. Is it still “Russian propaganda” if it’s detailing the actual aims of Russia?

[spartan max2]

I'm sure Ukraine isn't a perfect democracy, most young ones aren't. 

But to me it's irrelevant to the greater context of the Russian invasion. Russia had no legitment grounds to invade Ukraine regardless of how spotless the Ukrainian government is.

[+HerNibs]

1 hour ago, el midgetron said:

The Putinganda I’ve heard is that Russia is “denazifying” Ukraine. Not that Putin wants his own puppet installed in Ukraine. Is it still “Russian propaganda” if it’s detailing the actual aims of Russia?

Hi EM,

Hope you’re doing well.

What does “denazifying” actually mean? What about Ukraine or going on in Ukraine that would make “denazifying” necessary?

Nibs

[el midgetron]

7 minutes ago, HerNibs said:

Hi EM,

Hope you’re doing well.

What does “denazifying” actually mean? What about Ukraine or going on in Ukraine that would make “denazifying” necessary?

Nibs

I assume it would mean to “de” (remove) “Nazi” (Nazis) “ify” (identify as). Its basically Putin claiming they are fighting against Nazis in Ukraine. 

Removing Nazis should be necessary everywhere. However, In this case it’s just Putin tapping the American left for talking points. 
 

Quote

Russian President Vladimir Putin invoked World War II to justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine, saying in televised remarks last week that his offensive aimed to "denazify" the country — whose democratically elected president is Jewish, and lost relatives in the Holocaust.

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/01/1083677765/putin-denazify-ukraine-russia-history

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/24/putin-denazify-ukraine/

[Helen of Annoy]

16 hours ago, el midgetron said:

 

 

I removed the blatant pro-Putin agitprop from your post, for clarity. 

 

This is what you're supporting. 

Your Putin is a war criminal. Which is why your trolling is not just a immature hobby, you are actually helping war criminal's attempts to whitewash his criminal aggression. 

I know you don't care. I know you've got no compassion or shame. So I'm not posting this for you, I'm posting this to warn people who you are and what is the goal of the propaganda you are spreading. 

 

[odas]

12 hours ago, el midgetron said:

I assume it would mean to “de” (remove) “Nazi” (Nazis) “ify” (identify as). Its basically Putin claiming they are fighting against Nazis in Ukraine. 

Removing Nazis should be necessary everywhere. However, In this case it’s just Putin tapping the American left for talking points. 
 

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/01/1083677765/putin-denazify-ukraine-russia-history

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/24/putin-denazify-ukraine/

Or is he calling Tucker and co to ramp up their praise for him? 

What a garbage you have posted. Children are being killed by RUSSIAN NAZIS. That is the truth here. And everyone, left or right can see that unless you are a supporter of Putin.

[+HerNibs]

13 hours ago, el midgetron said:

I assume it would mean to “de” (remove) “Nazi” (Nazis) “ify” (identify as). Its basically Putin claiming they are fighting against Nazis in Ukraine. 

Removing Nazis should be necessary everywhere. However, In this case it’s just Putin tapping the American left for talking points. 
 

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/01/1083677765/putin-denazify-ukraine-russia-history

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/24/putin-denazify-ukraine/

I agree, Putin “denazifying” is bull**** just to stir things up. This woman is free to her opinion. What do we know about her? I don’t know the details of the election. Does it really matter in the larger scope of things?

Zelenskyy is the guy running the government, sheltering in a place under siege and risking everything for the Ukraine people. He’s had offers to be “rescued” so he can continue to govern from safety. We all know his response.

We are watching with our own eyes from thousands of sources that civilians are being targeted. Children dying. Everyday citizens putting their lives at risk for their families, friends, neighbors and country against foreign invaders.

We see millions of people being brought together to aid, shelter, feed and care for the Ukraine people. Not just the government , every day people helping.

Ukraine is a free country, a basically toddler democracy (I know it’s been around for a while, I am just referring to this current government and processes) that is facing destruction to their chosen way of life, the ending of lives and of facing a bully bent on consuming the future of their existence.

Dont know or care if this woman is a Putitroll or what irregularities happened in the election. TODAY they are a sovereign nation being attacked. After they are free from Puti’s threats we can argue about minutia. TODAY the Ukraine people need help, support and to know that no one in their right minds think Puti is doing anything other than trying to prove his dick still works.

Nibs

 

 

[+HerNibs]

I’m not stating that hearing opposing opinion is bad. Never, but when a very few talking heads on tv with nothing to lose and attention to gain spout off about things that really don’t matter at THIS moment I think that ignoring them is the best act we can take and focus on what needs done now.

Nibs (an actual cranky babushka/babusya by heritage, not citizenship)

 

 

ETA - I speak French passably well. Just rewatched the entire interview. She’s harping on the 2014 election, how she won’t support the current Ukraine government. Heating bills are high, economy sucks, salaries low. She could be any person in any democratic country complaining about “them” (opposing party).  Hell, she sounds like my sister talking about todays US government. 
I stand by my other posts. Her opinion isn’t relevant for th current situation.

Nibs 

Edited March 3, 2022 by HerNibs

[el midgetron]

1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

This is what you're supporting. 

I’m not supporting anything. I have not voiced an ounce of support for Putin or Russia because I do not support either.

As much as it might challenge your fragile world, two things can be true at the same time. Your personal attacks demonstrate your lack of emotional fitness needed to navigate what’s happening,
 

 

[el midgetron]

1 hour ago, odas said:

What a garbage you have posted. Children are being killed by RUSSIAN NAZIS. That is the truth here. And everyone, left or right can see that unless you are a supporter of Putin.

Get ahold of yourself. 

[el midgetron]

35 minutes ago, HerNibs said:

I agree, Putin “denazifying” is bull**** just to stir things up. This woman is free to her opinion. What do we know about her? I don’t know the details of the election. Does it really matter in the larger scope of things?

Zelenskyy is the guy running the government, sheltering in a place under siege and risking everything for the Ukraine people. He’s had offers to be “rescued” so he can continue to govern from safety. We all know his response.

We are watching with our own eyes from thousands of sources that civilians are being targeted. Children dying. Everyday citizens putting their lives at risk for their families, friends, neighbors and country against foreign invaders.

We see millions of people being brought together to aid, shelter, feed and care for the Ukraine people. Not just the government , every day people helping.

Ukraine is a free country, a basically toddler democracy (I know it’s been around for a while, I am just referring to this current government and processes) that is facing destruction to their chosen way of life, the ending of lives and of facing a bully bent on consuming the future of their existence.

Dont know or care if this woman is a Putitroll or what irregularities happened in the election. TODAY they are a sovereign nation being attacked. After they are free from Puti’s threats we can argue about minutia. TODAY the Ukraine people need help, support and to know that no one in their right minds think Puti is doing anything other than trying to prove his dick still works.

Nibs

I agree. I’m just trying to get a factual understanding of the situation, I do not support Putin’s aggression. However,  doesn’t mean I am willing to support an escalation of the conflict. More war = more dead children. I do not want to see the blindly emotional response of some here get maneuvered in to favoring US involvement. We don’t need WW3 and these train-wrecks waving the Ukrainian flag seem willing to believe and support anything that makes them feel good. 

So far, the article I posted yesterday makes the most sense of the situation to me. It doesn’t excuse or Defend Putin in anyway, it just offers a rational assessment of what’s happening. I still don’t feel like the situation is fully explained and probably never will. However, that doesn’t mean I will just accept a narrative and stick to it no matter what the evidence shows. 

 

 

[godnodog]

17 hours ago, el midgetron said:

So Russia has a Ukrainian women spreading Russian propaganda in the French media? ….Don’t you think it’s maybe a little more plausible that you just disagree with her? Exactly how familiar with Ukraine were you before last week?

Last time I've check French tv doesnt have what I assume to be chinese characters, but I just live a less than 1k Km from there, dafuq do I know.

[Helen of Annoy]

57 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

I’m not supporting anything. I have not voiced an ounce of support for Putin or Russia because I do not support either.

As much as it might challenge your fragile world, two things can be true at the same time. Your personal attacks demonstrate your lack of emotional fitness needed to navigate what’s happening,
 

 

You support Putin. It takes very stupid people to fall for your "objectivity". 

Putin is attacking Ukraine, civilians are being blown to pieces and you are oh, so "objective" to post excrement that implies Putin has a point. He doesn't. Even if Ukrainian government was a corrupt puppet, which it is not, it still doesn't give Putin right to attack Ukraine and commit war crimes. 

Oh, my world is fragile?   Sure, midge  I spent a year under constant artillery fire and five in regular war situation. What you've got? A belief that you can hold me a candle?  

Two things can be true at the same time, but of two opposite claims only one can be the actual fact. When you post crap from Kremlin, it is an obvious fact, not a personal attack. 

And why would a little bit of personal attacking be so hard for you, midge? You started a thread to attack a nation that is fighting for survival. Why would you be entitled to the right you don't recognize for others? 

Edited March 3, 2022 by Helen of Annoy

[+HerNibs]

17 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

I agree. I’m just trying to get a factual understanding of the situation, I do not support Putin’s aggression. However,  doesn’t mean I am willing to support an escalation of the conflict. More war = more dead children. I do not want to see the blindly emotional response of some here get maneuvered in to favoring US involvement. We don’t need WW3 and these train-wrecks waving the Ukrainian flag seem willing to believe and support anything that makes them feel good. 

So far, the article I posted yesterday makes the most sense of the situation to me. It doesn’t excuse or Defend Putin in anyway, it just offers a rational assessment of what’s happening. I still don’t feel like the situation is fully explained and probably never will. However, that doesn’t mean I will just accept a narrative and stick to it no matter what the evidence shows. 

 

 

Ok, read your post. I think I see what you’re saying. 
 

The post you posted seems to be a “maybe this is why” kind of thing. Fair enough, tons of “this is why I think Putin is doing this” articles all over the place. To me, the bottom line is that Ukraine is an independent country. Is it a perfect, everyone is happy, sunshine blaring out butts happy place? Nope, no such thing. And again, this is not important RIGHT NOW.

In no way is it ok for Putin to just do what he wants. Killing civilians and sacrificing his own people because he feels like it or has a burr up his ass. The majority of people don’t want his “help”. Most of the world is telling to stop. 
 

IMO it would be like Mars (if run by Saddam) decided Trump should still be president and just started coming into the US and started blowing up our bigger cities because some guys in Boise said they were oppressed on Facebook while the rest of the universe says stop.

Nibs