Ukraine's Nazi problem is real, even if Putin's 'denazification' claim isn't

[el midgetron]

Of the many distortions manufactured by Russian President Vladimir Putin to justify Russia’s assault on Ukraine, perhaps the most bizarre is his claim that the action was taken to “denazify” the country and its leadership. In making his case for entering his neighbor’s territory with armored tanks and fighter jets, Putin has stated that the move was undertaken “to protect people” who have been “subjected to bullying and genocide,” and that Russia “will strive for the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine.”….

…..But even though Putin is engaging in propaganda, it’s also true that Ukraine has a genuine Nazi problem — both past and present. Putin’s destructive actions — among them the devastation of Jewish communities — make clear that he’s lying when he says his goal is to ensure anyone’s welfare. But important as it is to defend the yellow-and-blue flag against the Kremlin’s brutal aggression, it would be a dangerous oversight to deny Ukraine’s antisemitic history and collaboration with Hitler’s Nazis, as well as the latter-day embrace of neo-Nazi factions in some quarters…..

…..In another ominous development, Ukraine has in recent years erected a glut of statues honoring Ukrainian nationalists whose legacies are tainted by their indisputable record as Nazi proxies. The Forward newspaper cataloged some of these deplorables, including Stepan Bandera, leader of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN), whose followers acted as local militia members for the SS and German army. “Ukraine has several dozen monuments and scores of street names glorifying this Nazi collaborator, enough to require two separate Wikipedia pages,” the Forward wrote.

…..But even if some elements of the country have been entangled with one of history’s most loathsome movements, standing with Ukraine is without doubt the honorable posture to take in this drama. Right now, every day that Putin ratchets up his assault against the Ukrainian people with scorched-earth zeal, it’s hard not to see who truly deserves the N-word.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946
 

Did the infamous Azov Battalion inspire Putin's 'denazification' claim? 

The Azov Special Operations Unit, which in the past was a hotbed of extreme right-wing ideology, fought pro-Russians in the Donbass war. They may be a basis for Putin's strange allegations.

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-700396

 

As Ukraine’s struggle against Russia and its proxies continues, Kiev must also contend with a growing problem behind the front lines: far-right vigilantes who are willing to use intimidation and even violence to advance their agendas, and who often do so with the tacit approval of law enforcement agencies.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary/commentary-ukraines-neo-nazi-problem-idUSKBN1GV2TY

 

Dear Minister Avakov and Mr. Lutsenko,

We are writing on behalf of Amnesty International, Front Line Defenders, Human Rights Watch and Freedom House to ask that Ukrainian authorities urgently take steps to strongly condemn and effectively address attacks and intimidation by radical groups that are promoting hatred and discrimination. While Ukrainian authorities have responded in a few instances to such attacks, the authorities have so far failed in recent months to respond to most incidents, which has created an atmosphere of near total impunity that cannot but embolden these groups to commit more attacks. It is no surprise that the number of violent attacks and threats by such groups is growing, as the inadequate response from the authorities sends a message that such acts are tolerated. We urge you to take effective action to prevent and stop acts that promote hatred and discrimination and hold those responsible to account.

Hiding under a veneer of patriotism and what they describe as “traditional values”, members of these groups have been vocal about their contempt for and intent to harm women’s rights activists, ethnic minorities, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and intersex (LGBTI) people, and others who hold views that differ from their own. These acts are restricting the peaceful exercise of their human rights and is further shrinking the space for civil society for groups that they believe do not have a right to public representation or participation in civic life.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/06/14/joint-letter-ukraines-minister-interior-affairs-and-prosecutor-general-concerning

 

Neo-Nazi C14 vigilantes appear to work with Kyiv police in latest ‘purge’ of Roma
https://khpg.org/en/1540419843

 

Ukrainian Court Penalizes News Outlet for Calling Far-Right Group ‘Neo-Nazi’ 

C14 Group Has History of Promoting Hatred and Racial Discrimination

https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/08/08/ukrainian-court-penalizes-news-outlet-calling-far-right-group-neo-nazi

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S14_(Ukrainian_group)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector

[Occult1]

Even the slightest, cursory research on the web reveals just how pervasive neo-nazi/white supremacist ideologies are among Ukrainian armed forces.

It's like the elephant in the room and no one in mainstream media or western governements want to even broach the subject.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Occult1

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

You know who also has a Neo-Nazi problem? 
America.

[Hawken]

I thought it was Ukraine that's being invaded. Which is it Joe? 

 

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

You know who also has a Neo-Nazi problem? 
America.

In a nation of about 330 million, what kind of numbers qualify as "a problem" to you, Hats?  The reality in our body politic today is that whoever the media chooses to slander or otherwise inveigh against, are labeled "a problem".  

As for the topic... Ukrainian leaders have been in the camp of the Democrat party for years.  Does that make the Democrats "neo-Nazis"?  Seems to me the problem in Ukraine is very easy to identify and isolate.  It'd be the scum who came into the nation and who are now doing their damnedest to level civilian areas in an attempt to crush resistance.  IF there are significant % of Nazis in Ukraine, I STILL will side with and support those who are being slaughtered indiscriminately by invading forces.  IF the Ukrainian "Nazis" attempt to invade the Rodina, then by all means, destroy them.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

3 minutes ago, and then said:

In a nation of about 330 million, what kind of numbers qualify as "a problem" to you, Hats?  The reality in our body politic today is that whoever the media chooses to slander or otherwise inveigh against, are labeled "a problem".  
 

>1 is a problem. It’s a failure of education, morality and the community in it’s self-policing that anyone who lionises the ****ing Nazis isn’t corrected - potentially with a baseball bat. 

 

[+and-then]

6 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

>1 is a problem. It’s a failure of education, morality and the community in it’s self-policing that anyone who lionises the ****ing Nazis isn’t corrected - potentially with a baseball bat. 

 

Thanks for your concern.  There's probably a few dozen people who think differently from the righteous Left on many topics.  Maybe a baseball bat is in order?  Don't be ridiculous as well as childish in your loathing of those you disagree with.  FWIW, in this particular instance in Ukraine, I haven't noticed a lot of "brown" people.  Seems these white supremacists have a poor sense of sight.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

6 minutes ago, and then said:

Thanks for your concern.  There's probably a few dozen people who think differently from the righteous Left on many topics.  Maybe a baseball bat is in order?  Don't be ridiculous as well as childish in your loathing of those you disagree with.  FWIW, in this particular instance in Ukraine, I haven't noticed a lot of "brown" people.  Seems these white supremacists have a poor sense of sight.

There’s a wide gulf between “people who disagree with me” and “people who worship genuinely genocidal maniacs”. For example, you disagree with me and I’d happily have paint with you. I wouldn’t p*** up the **** of a Nazi or a Neo-Nazi if their kidneys were on fire.

[Black Red Devil]

The Ukrainians have a white/nazi supremacist group and so do many other European countries where right wing nationalism has been growing rapidly in the last 20 years.  Although I find it hard to believe this is something you can accuse the whole country of or even just the Government itself considering their President is a Jew.

Putin on the other hand should be the last one to talk and resort to such propaganda.  He was a KGB Agent in the old Soviet Union and has never hidden the fact its breakup was a big mistake.  Well, the Soviet Union had its own holocaust and was responsible for the murder of 2.7 million Jews during WWII which they hid to the world. 

link

[+susieice]

21 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Well, the Soviet Union had its own holocaust and was responsible for the murder of 2.7 million Jews during WWII which they hid to the world.

https://news.stanford.edu/2010/09/23/naimark-stalin-genocide-092310/

https://www.history.com/news/ukrainian-famine-stalin

https://www.grunge.com/776960/the-truth-about-the-stalin-era-famine-that-killed-millions-of-ukrainians/

[el midgetron]

26 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

>1 is a problem.

Not all problems are of equal significants. In America we are tearing down statues of people who fought in the Civil War. Heck in some cases we are tearing down statues just for looking like it depicts a white person. In Ukraine they are erecting statues to Jew murdering WW2 Nazi collaborators. Reading about the issue in the Ukraine, I genuinely don’t believe it’s comparable to the situation in the US, Despite the partisan rhetoric in America, Nazis in America are fringe nut cases, However, I do believe that as the partisan pendulum gains momentum in the US, it will result in more more extremists. 

As for your “>1” standard, what’s going on down under? 

 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

23 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Not all problems are of equal significants. In America we are tearing down statues of people who fought in the Civil War. Heck in some cases we are tearing down statues just for looking like it depicts a white person. In Ukraine they are erecting statues to Jew murdering WW2 Nazi collaborators. Reading about the issue in the Ukraine, I genuinely don’t believe it’s comparable to the situation in the US, Despite the partisan rhetoric in America, Nazis in America are fringe nut cases, However, I do believe that as the partisan pendulum gains momentum in the US, it will result in more more extremists. 

As for your “>1” standard, what’s going on down under? 

 

Well exactly, there are some ******s here who need strategic application of cricket bats about their persons. 

[el midgetron]

2 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Well exactly, there are some ******s here who need strategic application of cricket bats about their persons. 

Perhaps you guys should hug it out? Love conquers all.

ha, I’m kidding. I don’t recommend hugging random Neo-Nazis. …Bad idea…

[Jon the frog]

Propaganda is going insane both sides and I find that mostly deplorable. We can see the interview of Konotop major on PBS about what's happening in Ukraine.

But the portrait on the wall is blurred. Hummm why? Well it's a portrait of Stephan bandera, leader and ideologist of Ukrainian ultranationalists known for his involvement in terrorist activities.  Together with his followers, largely responsible for the massacres of Polish civilians  and partially for the Holocaust in Ukraine. So why blurring it ? 

It's just another crazy proof of disinformation happening from both sides to hide the facts.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Jon the frog

[spartan max2]

Yeah we should invade Russia to fix their Nazi problem 

[el midgetron]

So, the Nazi problem seems to be an actual significant problem. According to Amnesty International, Ukraine’s. Volunteer battalions are guilty of war crimes against Ukrainians in the Donbas region. Apparently, theres been a war in Donbas for the past eight years?? …I haven’t seen a lot of emphasis put on this in the media…, Pro-Russian separatists in Donbas reject the Ukrainian Government. This all goes back to the election of 2014. It’s indeed “complicated”….
Putin is undeniably a callous thug and guilty of war crimes himself, as you might have heard by now, However, it seems Ukraine has been harboring what amounts to gangs of Neo-Nazis who have been brutalizing Ukrainians in the Donbas region. Don’t take my word for it, get the “Russian propaganda” directly from Amnesty International -

Quote

Ukrainian militia and separatist forces are responsible for war crimes, Amnesty International said today. The organisation accused Russia of fuelling separatist crimes as it revealed satellite images indicating a build-up of Russian armour and artillery in eastern Ukraine. Despite a fragile cease-fire, the situation on the ground remains fraught with danger and Amnesty International calls on all parties, including Russia, to stop violations of the laws of war…

….Researchers also interviewed Ukrainian refugees in the Rostov region of Russia. Civilians from these areas told Amnesty International that the Ukrainian government forces subjected their neighbourhoods to heavy shelling. Their testimonies suggest that the attacks were indiscriminate and may amount to war crimes. Witnesses also said that separatist fighters abducted, tortured, and killed their neighbours. In an illustrative incident, residents of Slovyansk told Amnesty International that separatist fighters kidnapped a local pastor, two of his sons and two churchgoers, and requested a US$50,000 ransom for their release. By the time the local community managed to collect the requested ransom, the witnesses said, the captors had killed all of the men.   Amnesty International has also received credible reports of abductions and beatings carried out by volunteer battalions operating alongside regular Ukrainian armed forces. For example, on 23 August a security guard in Oleksandrivka, Luhansk region was seized by several dozen armed men who arrived in vehicles flying Ukrainian flags. At least one was marked “Battalion Aidar” (a militia group operating in the Luhansk region). Witnesses said his captors accused him of collaborating with separatists, beat him with rifle butts and held him incommunicado until 27 August, when his family were informed he was being held in another town, in the local office of Ukraine’s state security service. Amnesty International is calling on the Ukrainian authorities to conduct an effective investigation into allegations of serious violations of international humanitarian law and bring to justice individuals responsible for war crimes.….

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/09/ukraine-mounting-evidence-war-crimes-and-russian-involvement/

  Ukraine: Abuses and war crimes by the Aidar Volunteer Battalion in the north Luhansk region

https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/eur500402014en.pdf

Ukraine must stop ongoing abuses and war crimes by pro-Ukrainian volunteer forces

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/09/ukraine-must-stop-ongoing-abuses-and-war-crimes-pro-ukrainian-volunteer-for/

Newsweek -

“Groups of right-wing Ukrainian nationalists are committing war crimes in the rebel-held territories of Eastern Ukraine, according to a report from Amnesty International, as evidence emerged in local media of the volunteer militias beheading their victims.”

https://www.newsweek.com/evidence-war-crimes-committed-ukrainian-nationalist-volunteers-grows-269604

As usual, the people who are guaranteed to lose this war are the non-combatants…. 

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by el midgetron

[el midgetron]

Posted on October 8, 2021

The DOJ Is Investigating Americans For War Crimes Allegedly Committed While Fighting With Far-Right Extremists In Ukraine

One chilly day in February, Craig Lang, a former US Army soldier wanted for allegedly killing a married couple in Florida, pleaded with three stern-faced judges in a Kyiv courtroom to allow him to stay in Ukraine. He first came in 2015 to fight with a far-right paramilitary unit, defending the country from Russia-backed forces. And he believed that if he were extradited back to the US, he could face war crimes charges.

But now, BuzzFeed News can reveal that the Department of Justice and the FBI have in fact taken the extraordinary step of investigating a group of seven American fighters, including Lang, under the federal war crimes statute. Authorities suspect that while in eastern Ukraine, Lang and other members of the group allegedly took noncombatants as prisoners, beat them with their fists, kicked them, clobbered them with a sock filled with stones, and held them underwater.

Lang, the DOJ believes, may have even killed some of them before burying their bodies in unmarked graves….

….When they arrived in Ukraine, Lang, Rickert, and Pirtle allegedly joined Right Sector, a volunteer far-right nationalist group that formed in November 2013 and later created a paramilitary force to respond to Russia’s invasion of eastern Ukraine in spring 2014. Human rights groups have accused Right Sector fighters of abusing and torturing civilians and combatants…..

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/christopherm51/craig-lang-ukraine-war-crimes-alleged

[+and-then]

On 3/5/2022 at 8:09 PM, el midgetron said:

However, I do believe that as the partisan pendulum gains momentum in the US, it will result in more more extremists. 

I've been thinking the same thing for a few months.  Large, polarized groups don't typically appear out of the aether with no catalyst to explain them.  The Left in the U.S., especially, is fomenting a lot of anger and the natural reaction to that is to stand against it.  Put another way... call someone a racist, homophobe, misogynist, or  Nazi long enough and they might just validate your opinions as a way of lashing out.  

[el midgetron]

10 minutes ago, and then said:

I've been thinking the same thing for a few months.  Large, polarized groups don't typically appear out of the aether with no catalyst to explain them.  The Left in the U.S., especially, is fomenting a lot of anger and the natural reaction to that is to stand against it.  Put another way... call someone a racist, homophobe, misogynist, or  Nazi long enough and they might just validate your opinions as a way of lashing out.  

I also suspect there will be a backlash to the deconstruction of western culture. Sort of the same idea. They attack our nationality, our race, our culture and our heritage. At some point there will be the natural reaction to that.

[+and-then]

6 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

At some point there will be the natural reaction to that.

Yep... it's all going to plan.  

[godnodog]

All european countries are facing a surge in extreme right wings, some groups are just fascist and some are also nazi, nevertheless they are a minority.
Of these how many were financed by covert programs by Russia? 
What is Putin / Russia actions against russian nazis?

Now about the war crimes committed by ukrainian far right extremists cannot be ignored whatsoever, but using them as a reason for justification for invading Ukraine is just a joke.

Russia could be a great country in all metrics but it chooses to be the greatest 3rd world country.

[Alchopwn]

On 3/6/2022 at 8:43 AM, el midgetron said:

…..But even though Putin is engaging in propaganda, it’s also true that Ukraine has a genuine Nazi problem 

Yeah?  If anyone wants to talk de-Nazification, especially an American, they should look to their own country first imo. Ukraine at least has a Jewish President, and he's awesome.  Ask yourself how Zelensky was even elected if the Ukranian Nazi movement is such a huge problem.  This is a beat-up by pro-Russian propaganda forces.  This conflict actually represents a fantastic opportunity for Ukraine and Judaism to heal a long rift, but people have to be ready to move on.

Now take a look at Russia for a moment.  What do you call it when you have a kleptocratic autocrat who is pro-corporate and a militaristic ultra-nationalist, bent on imperialist expansion like Putin?  That's straight up Fascism by most definitions of that ideology, and that's before you get to the actual Nazis in Russia.  Who is going to de-nazify Russia?  If indeed Ukraine is as choc-full of Nazis as you suggest, then surely they can be sent to get rid of the Russian Nazis and the two extremes can "cancel each other out" on the battlefield toe everyone's benefit.

I have personally read of young pro-Nazi volunteers who signed up for the conflict years ago and who came home very cured of their extremism, in a way that only freezing in a trench with people shooting at you can achieve.  Very educational.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Alchopwn

[el midgetron]

1 hour ago, Alchopwn said:

Yeah?  If anyone wants to talk de-Nazification, especially an American, they should look to their own country first imo. Ukraine at least has a Jewish President, and he's awesome.  Ask yourself how Zelensky was even elected if the Ukranian Nazi movement is such a huge problem.  This is a beat-up by pro-Russian propaganda forces.  This conflict actually represents a fantastic opportunity for Ukraine and Judaism to heal a long rift, but people have to be ready to move on.

Now take a look at Russia for a moment.  What do you call it when you have a kleptocratic autocrat who is pro-corporate and a militaristic ultra-nationalist, bent on imperialist expansion like Putin?  That's straight up Fascism by most definitions of that ideology, and that's before you get to the actual Nazis in Russia.  Who is going to de-nazify Russia?  If indeed Ukraine is as choc-full of Nazis as you suggest, then surely they can be sent to get rid of the Russian Nazis and the two extremes can "cancel each other out" on the battlefield toe everyone's benefit.

I have personally read of young pro-Nazi volunteers who signed up for the conflict years ago and who came home very cured of their extremism, in a way that only freezing in a trench with people shooting at you can achieve.  Very educational.

Sure, there are Nazis everywhere. However, I’m not aware of any other European country that has openly “Nazi” factions in its military. Or that tasks Neo-Nazis with policing it’s streets.

Keep in mind they knew they were being filmed in the above video. The next video has an comparison of how they act in front of a camera and how they behave when they don’t know they are being filmed. The specific part starts at 1:50
 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alchopwn]

On 3/10/2022 at 2:07 AM, el midgetron said:

Sure, there are Nazis everywhere. However, I’m not aware of any other European country that has openly “Nazi” factions in its military. Or that tasks Neo-Nazis with policing it’s streets.

Keep in mind they knew they were being filmed in the above video. The next video has an comparison of how they act in front of a camera and how they behave when they don’t know they are being filmed. The specific part starts at 1:50

You need to know a bit more about those Azov Regiment idiots.  Did you know they have multiple openly Jewish members?   They have had Chechen Muslims and even Pakistani students in their ranks.  The links to Nazism are about as credible as Sid Vicious from the Sex Pistols being a Nazi because he wore a swastika t-shirt. 

The Azov regiment are fu**ing fools, but their alleged links to Nazism are because of their desire to distance themselves from the Communist older generation, and to shock and scare them. 

How can you have multi-ethnic, multi-religious Nazis fighting for a democratic regime led by a Jew?  Does... Not... Compute...

Fundamentally the Azov regiment are just soccer hooligans.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Alchopwn

[Gromdor]

5 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

You need to know a bit more about those Azov Regiment idiots.  Did you know they have multiple openly Jewish members?   They have had Chechen Muslims and even Pakistani students in their ranks.  The links to Nazism are about as credible as Sid Vicious from the Sex Pistols being a Nazi because he wore a swastika t-shirt. 

The Azov regiment are fu**ing fools, but their alleged links to Nazism are because of their desire to distance themselves from the Communist older generation, and to shock and scare them. 

How can you have multi-ethnic, multi-religious Nazis fighting for a democratic regime led by a Jew?  Does... Not... Compute...

Fundamentally the Azov regiment are just soccer hooligans.

The US has military units with Confederate histories, but they don't promote slavery or white supremacy either: Army continues to honor Confederate unit histories, even as base names draw scrutiny - The Washington Post