Ukraine's Nazi problem is real, even if Putin's 'denazification' claim isn't

[Gromdor]

From two years ago: Military Personnel Can Be in Neo-Nazi Groups, Defense Officials Say (insider.com)

From three years ago: Neo-Nazi networks exposed across US military - World Socialist Web Site (wsws.org)

It's a problem, but are we going to be fine with another country invading us over it?

[odas]

14 hours ago, el midgetron said:

So, because Putin invaded everything else is inconsequential? 

Yes. Yes. Yes.

If you had to go thru what I did, if you had to go thru what Ukrainians have to go thru now, when you see children torn in pieces by mortars, when you see your family and friends being killed, dismembered THEN YOU WOULD HAVE A POINT TALKING. Until then, defend and keep your country safe from the enemy by all means because the enemy has no mercy.

Edited March 16, 2022 by odas

[odas]

Just now, odas said:

 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by odas

[Guest Xetan]

17 hours ago, el midgetron said:

a Government you think is worth defending? 

It's not the government we want to defend, it's the civilians. Which is why people who are in favor of defending Ukraine are not happy with the country forcing their men to fight.

[el midgetron]

6 hours ago, odas said:

Yes. Yes. Yes.

If you had to go thru what I did, if you had to go thru what Ukrainians have to go thru now, when you see children torn in pieces by mortars, when you see your family and friends being killed, dismembered THEN YOU WOULD HAVE A POINT TALKING. Until then, defend and keep your country safe from the enemy by all means because the enemy has no mercy.

I have consistently maintained that I want peace for the Ukrainian people. +100%

I’m just not willing to go to bat for the Ukrainian government. 

[thedutchiedutch]

On 3/15/2022 at 7:58 PM, Occult1 said:

Except that Ukraine is the only country to have officially incorporated a Neo-nazi faction into it's military.

As long as they put them right at the front lines 

[Hawken]

The head of the teacher's union in the US can't spell, Ukraine. 

 

[el midgetron]

(2016) Congress Has Removed a Ban on Funding Neo-Nazis From Its Year-End Spending Bill

Under pressure from the Pentagon, Congress has stripped the spending bill of an amendment that prevented funds from falling into the hands of Ukrainian neo-fascist groups.

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/congress-has-removed-a-ban-on-funding-neo-nazis-from-its-year-end-spending-bill/
 

 

[Tiggs]

In the months before Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, an oligarch with Russian ties allegedly paid for locals to paint swastikas around Kharkiv, sources say. The effort, according to the sources, was part of a false flag operation to exaggerate Ukraine’s Nazi presence at a time when Putin was using it as a pretext for war.

The alleged plot, according to multiple sources, involved Pavel Fuks, a real estate, banking, and oil magnate who, the sources claim, was co-opted by Russian security forces to participate. Through intermediaries, Fuks allegedly offered between $500 and $1,500 for street level criminals to vandalize city streets with pro-Nazi graffiti in December, January, and February.

Source: Yahoo (which seems to be a reprint of the paygated Rolling Stone article).

[el midgetron]

On 3/24/2022 at 2:16 AM, Tiggs said:

In the months before Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, an oligarch with Russian ties allegedly paid for locals to paint swastikas around Kharkiv, sources say. The effort, according to the sources, was part of a false flag operation to exaggerate Ukraine’s Nazi presence at a time when Putin was using it as a pretext for war.

The alleged plot, according to multiple sources, involved Pavel Fuks, a real estate, banking, and oil magnate who, the sources claim, was co-opted by Russian security forces to participate. Through intermediaries, Fuks allegedly offered between $500 and $1,500 for street level criminals to vandalize city streets with pro-Nazi graffiti in December, January, and February.

Source: Yahoo (which seems to be a reprint of the paygated Rolling Stone article).

Well, that was a waste of money….

“Azov’s neo-Nazi character has been covered by the New York Times, the Guardian, the BBC, the Telegraph and Reuters, among others. On-the-ground journalists from established Western media outlets have written of witnessing SS runes, swastikas, torchlight marches, and Nazi salutes. They interviewed Azov soldiers who readily acknowledged being neo-Nazis. They filed these reports under unambiguous headlines such as “How many neo-Nazis is the U.S. backing in Ukraine?” and “Volunteer Ukrainian unit includes Nazis.”

How is this Russian propaganda?

The U.N. and Human Rights Watch have accused Azov, as well as otherKiev battalions, of a litany of human rights abuses. In 2016, the Simon Wiesenthal Center caught Azov trying to recruit neo-Nazis in France; Brazilian authorities have uncovered similar attempts in Brazil. Azov’s official page on VK, a social media site used in Ukraine and Russia, features images of a white power tattoo and the Totenkopf symbol usedby SS concentration camp guards and neo-Nazis today.

How is this Russian propaganda?

Ukraine’s far right, which encompasses more than Azov, regularly stages torchlight marches in honor of World War II-era Nazi collaborators(imagine Charlottesville, but with thousands of participants). On Jan. 1, Jewish media reported marchers chanting “Jews Out!” Last month, Radio Free Europe (RFE) — surely not an arm of the Kremlin — reported 20,000 marchers carrying torches in honor of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, which, according to RFE, “carried out vicious acts of ethnic cleansing in which tens of thousands of ethnic Poles in the region were killed.” RFE mentioned journalists spotting Nazi salutes during the march.

Kiev’s rehabilitation of Nazi collaborators — a hallmark of European far right movements — has been condemned by Jewish organizations including the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, the Simon Wiesenthal Center, the National Coalition Supporting Eurasian Jewry, Yad Vashem, and the World Jewish Congress.“

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/359609-the-reality-of-neo-nazis-in-the-ukraine-is-far-from-kremlin-propaganda

[jmccr8]

2 hours ago, el midgetron said:

Well, that was a waste of money….

“Azov’s neo-Nazi character has been covered by the New York Times, the Guardian, the BBC, the Telegraph and Reuters, among others. On-the-ground journalists from established Western media outlets have written of witnessing SS runes, swastikas, torchlight marches, and Nazi salutes. They interviewed Azov soldiers who readily acknowledged being neo-Nazis. They filed these reports under unambiguous headlines such as “How many neo-Nazis is the U.S. backing in Ukraine?” and “Volunteer Ukrainian unit includes Nazis.”

How is this Russian propaganda?

The U.N. and Human Rights Watch have accused Azov, as well as otherKiev battalions, of a litany of human rights abuses. In 2016, the Simon Wiesenthal Center caught Azov trying to recruit neo-Nazis in France; Brazilian authorities have uncovered similar attempts in Brazil. Azov’s official page on VK, a social media site used in Ukraine and Russia, features images of a white power tattoo and the Totenkopf symbol usedby SS concentration camp guards and neo-Nazis today.

How is this Russian propaganda?

Ukraine’s far right, which encompasses more than Azov, regularly stages torchlight marches in honor of World War II-era Nazi collaborators(imagine Charlottesville, but with thousands of participants). On Jan. 1, Jewish media reported marchers chanting “Jews Out!” Last month, Radio Free Europe (RFE) — surely not an arm of the Kremlin — reported 20,000 marchers carrying torches in honor of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, which, according to RFE, “carried out vicious acts of ethnic cleansing in which tens of thousands of ethnic Poles in the region were killed.” RFE mentioned journalists spotting Nazi salutes during the march.

Kiev’s rehabilitation of Nazi collaborators — a hallmark of European far right movements — has been condemned by Jewish organizations including the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, the Simon Wiesenthal Center, the National Coalition Supporting Eurasian Jewry, Yad Vashem, and the World Jewish Congress.“

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/359609-the-reality-of-neo-nazis-in-the-ukraine-is-far-from-kremlin-propaganda

Hi El

I don't know that it is as black and white as you think it is. How many Americans in the military are white supremacists and would you object to them being involved in keeping your country safe if it was in the same circumstance?

I googled to see what numbers I could come across and found this old paper from 1995 that shows numbers at that time in 33 countries and that would just be known members at that time. I don't want to join a club to get more from the site but will give a link and what is in the page.

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/skinhead-international-worldwide-survey-neo-nazi-skinheads#additional-details-0

NCJ Number

 

171471

 

Date Published

 

1995

Length

 

89 pages

Annotation

This study provides information on neo-Nazi Skinhead white supremacist groups in the 33 countries where they are active, including their numbers and activities.

Abstract

Data sources for this 18-month global study included Jewish communal institutions, human rights organizations, law enforcement agencies, university-based research centers, defectors, and confidential sources. Reasonable estimates on the numbers of Skinheads in each country were obtained by tallying Skinhead numbers at rallies, marches, concerts, festivals, soccer matches, and other gatherings. The Skinhead movement is active in 33 countries on six continents. It numbers some 70,000 youths worldwide, of whom half are hardcore activists and the rest supporters. The countries where Skinheads are found in the greatest numbers are Germany (5,000), Hungary and the Czech Republic (more than 4,000 each), the United States (3,500), Poland (2,000), the United Kingdom and Brazil (1,500 each), Italy (1,000 to 1,500), and Sweden (more than 1,000). France, Spain, Canada, and the Netherlands each have at least 500 Skinheads. The Skinhead movements in these various countries are extensively linked with each other. This "Skinhead International" is maintained through the travels abroad of popular Skinhead rock bands and their fans; the worldwide marketing of Skinhead paraphernalia and recordings; the sale and trading of publications; the exchange of propaganda; and the use of electronic communications. In all the countries where they exist Skinheads engage in violence and criminal assaults on racial minorities, immigrants, homosexuals, and Jews. Separate sections of the book are devoted to each of the 33 countries.

 

I suppose if I thought that there was an unusual reported number of nazis in the Ukrainian military that it might mean something but at this point have not seem anything exceptional to warrant concern as they are citizens of a country under attack and would expect no less in any other country that has nazi members.

 

 

[el midgetron]

9 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi El

I don't know that it is as black and white as you think it is. How many Americans in the military are white supremacists and would you object to them being involved in keeping your country safe if it was in the same circumstance?

I googled to see what numbers I could come across and found this old paper from 1995 that shows numbers at that time in 33 countries and that would just be known members at that time. I don't want to join a club to get more from the site but will give a link and what is in the page.

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/skinhead-international-worldwide-survey-neo-nazi-skinheads#additional-details-0

NCJ Number

 

171471

 

Date Published

 

1995

Length

 

89 pages

Annotation

This study provides information on neo-Nazi Skinhead white supremacist groups in the 33 countries where they are active, including their numbers and activities.

Abstract

Data sources for this 18-month global study included Jewish communal institutions, human rights organizations, law enforcement agencies, university-based research centers, defectors, and confidential sources. Reasonable estimates on the numbers of Skinheads in each country were obtained by tallying Skinhead numbers at rallies, marches, concerts, festivals, soccer matches, and other gatherings. The Skinhead movement is active in 33 countries on six continents. It numbers some 70,000 youths worldwide, of whom half are hardcore activists and the rest supporters. The countries where Skinheads are found in the greatest numbers are Germany (5,000), Hungary and the Czech Republic (more than 4,000 each), the United States (3,500), Poland (2,000), the United Kingdom and Brazil (1,500 each), Italy (1,000 to 1,500), and Sweden (more than 1,000). France, Spain, Canada, and the Netherlands each have at least 500 Skinheads. The Skinhead movements in these various countries are extensively linked with each other. This "Skinhead International" is maintained through the travels abroad of popular Skinhead rock bands and their fans; the worldwide marketing of Skinhead paraphernalia and recordings; the sale and trading of publications; the exchange of propaganda; and the use of electronic communications. In all the countries where they exist Skinheads engage in violence and criminal assaults on racial minorities, immigrants, homosexuals, and Jews. Separate sections of the book are devoted to each of the 33 countries.

 

I suppose if I thought that there was an unusual reported number of nazis in the Ukrainian military that it might mean something but at this point have not seem anything exceptional to warrant concern as they are citizens of a country under attack and would expect no less in any other country that has nazi members.

Did you read the thread before posting? 
 

This isn’t some random white Supremacists serving in the military. It’s a Neo Nazi militia being officially recognized by the government as part of the Ukrainian military. The Ukrainian government also has at least one Neo Nazi group patrolling the streets of Kyiv. 
 

These are ongoing arrangements that predate Putin’s invasion. 

[jmccr8]

9 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Did you read the thread before posting? 
 

This isn’t some random white Supremacists serving in the military. It’s a Neo Nazi militia being officially recognized by the government as part of the Ukrainian military. The Ukrainian government also has at least one Neo Nazi group patrolling the streets of Kyiv. 
 

These are ongoing arrangements that predate Putin’s invasion. 

Hi El

Yes I did and I responded to the quote I responded to and not the whole thread at once. Do you understand the numbers of nazis in the US and how many are in your military, reserves and police forces and it is a fair comparison. Did you read what I posted about known numbers in 33 countries  and what that infers?

[Tatetopa]

Consider this:  If the US had the misfortune to be invaded, which groups of citizens would be the most prepared mentally and physically to fight?  I believe it would be the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, 1% Idaho Minutemen and other militia groups that the military might recognize if they were  outnumbered.  

[el midgetron]

@jmccr8. @Tatetopa Azov and was not a war time contingency. This isn’t about “if an invasion happened”. It’s more like if some Neo Nazis were instrumental on the 6th at removing Joe Biden and then the new government rewarded the Nazis by officially recognized them as a legitimate part of the US military. That’s a more accurate representation of what you are defending. Having Neo Nazis groups patrol the streets of Kyiv has nothing to do with Putin’s invasion. 
 

Ukraine honoring WW2 Nazi collaborators has nothing to do with Putin’s invasion. Ukraine has a Nazi problem. If you guys haven’t read this thread, I suggest you take time to do so and consider what was reported in the 8 years before Putin’s invasion, 

[jmccr8]

54 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

If you guys haven’t read this thread, I suggest you take time to do so and consider what was reported in the 8 years before Putin’s invasion, 

Hi El

I have read the thread, or do you think if I read it again that I will agree with you which is what you really want. You tend to complain to everyone that they have dog poo on their shoe when you are standing on a cowpie.

Think about why you don't have a problem with supremacist groups in your own country  and why your not making noise about them and diverting by complaining that there are nazis in the Ukraine. The last link from 1995 showed that there were groups in 33 countries why doesn't that sink in and why is it just the Ukrainian nazis seem to be a problem for you.

Yes they are citizens of a country that is at war and they are fighting for their country, are they responsible for war crimes in this conflict? i They did not incite the war and were being used as propaganda  by Putin and now you.

Take some time and read about these links then tell me why it is not a problem for you in your country but that somehow it is a problem for you about the Ukraine.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/white-supremacists-committed-most-extremist-killings-2017-adl-says-n838896

White supremacists and other far-right groups committed the majority of extremist-related murders in the United States last year, according to a new report by the Anti-Defamation League.

White supremacists were "directly responsible" for 18 out of 34 U.S. extremist-related deaths in 2017, the ADL said. Islamic extremists, by comparison, were only responsible for nine deaths in America.

 

https://www.inquirer.com/news/pennsylvania-researchers-combat-white-supremacists-extremism-philadelphia-20220103.html

They arrived in yellow rental trucks, unfurled their flags, and readied shields and smoke bombs. The hour was late, and the symbolism was unsettling: As the clock inched close to midnight on July 3, about 200 members of the white nationalist group Patriot Front marched through downtown Philadelphia, past Independence Hall and other historic landmarks, while chanting, “Take America back!”

If the demonstration was meant to be a show of strength for the organization, it ended meekly. After scuffling with a handful of counterprotesters, the Patriot Front members retreated into their Penske trucks and then were stopped by Philadelphia police on Delaware Avenue, where some marchers sat dejectedly, their heads bowed.

But the episode served a dual purpose. Social media has proven to be fertile ground for white supremacist and conspiracy-theory movements trying to attract new members. Patriot Front turned footage of its parade through the city into a hype video; on its website, its members likened themselves to Revolutionary War heroes, and insisted, “Americans must dictate America.”

https://www.lawfareblog.com/search-data-white-supremacist-violent-crime

A cursory Google search for statistics on international terrorism, including acts committed on U.S. soil by individuals linked to foreign terrorist organizations, yields a gold mine. You can sort by group, country, or year. Curious about how ISIS prosecutions differ among federal districts? There’s data on that.

But attempt to figure out the amount of violent crime committed by white supremacists, internationally or domestically, and you’ll find yourself sorting through various government documents that are incomplete in a number of ways, covering only a small set of offenses or failing to label the offender’s ideology with specificity.

Why does this matter? Too often, white supremacists’ violent crimes are dismissed as the workings of semi-isolated, but certainly contained, individuals—so-called lone wolves. Without comprehensive data made available to the public, this characterization is difficult to rebut. Public access to this data is essential to full appreciation of the breath and severity of this criminal behavior.

Midge

You got all excited when you saw nazi flags at a Canadian protest, seems you spend a lot of time looking at what is going on in other countries and criticizing them and not being pro-active about the same problem in you country, yes your **** smells just like everyone else's. Really it's no different than you telling everyone the dangers of smoking when you have a cigarette hanging out of your mouth.

You can get as excited as you want but it doesn't change the fact that I don't have to agree with you and it is fair to point out that you have the same problem in your country. Like both Tate and I pointed out that if your country was in the same situation as the Ukraine that those people would as patriotic citizens have a right to defend their country in the same way.

You had a political nazi party in the Us during WW2 that still is legally able to recruit members just like any other political party because your constitution allows it.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by jmccr8

[el midgetron]

26 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi El

I have read the thread, or do you think if I read it again that I will agree with you which is what you really want. You tend to complain to everyone that they have dog poo on their shoe when you are standing on a cowpie.

First off, the hate groups issue in the United States aren’t even in the same league as the issue in Ukraine. Secondly, despite you distinguishing between “dog poo” and “cowpies”, it all looks like **** to me. 
 

Quote

Think about why you don't have a problem with supremacist groups in your own country 

I DO have a problem with supremacist groups in my country. I oppose them everywhere, unlike you. You show me where I have ever defended a white Supremacists group or retract your comment. 
 

Quote

Take some time and read about these links then tell me why it is not a problem for you in your country but that somehow it is a problem for you about the Ukraine.

In the US Neo Nazi groups are rightfully designated as hate groups. In Ukraine they are legitimized as national defense and utilized to patrol/police the streets of the capital city. The two situations are not even in the same league.
 

In America we tear down statutes to men who fought on the wrong side of a war 160 years ago. In Ukraine they are building statues, naming streets and holding parades in honor of WW2 Nazi collaborators. 
 

Just because you oppose Putin’s invasion, doesn’t mean you need to absolve Ukraine of being in bed with Nazis. Your relativism and rationalizing just amounts to apologizing for Nazis. 
 

They are in a war. I get it. The problem predates the war.

[jmccr8]

5 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

First off, the hate groups issue in the United States aren’t even in the same league as the issue in Ukraine. Secondly, despite you distinguishing between “dog poo” and “cowpies”, it all looks like **** to me. 
 

I DO have a problem with supremacist groups in my country. I oppose them everywhere, unlike you. You show me where I have ever defended a white Supremacists group or retract your comment. 
 

In the US Neo Nazi groups are rightfully designated as hate groups. In Ukraine they are legitimized as national defense and utilized to patrol/police the streets of the capital city. The two situations are not even in the same league.
 

In America we tear down statutes to men who fought on the wrong side of a war 160 years ago. In Ukraine they are building statues, naming streets and holding parades in honor of WW2 Nazi collaborators. 
 

Just because you oppose Putin’s invasion, doesn’t mean you need to absolve Ukraine of being in bed with Nazis. Your relativism and rationalizing just amounts to apologizing for Nazis. 
 

They are in a war. I get it. The problem predates the war.

Hi El

My comments were not to criticize you personally. I don’t have to apologize for something I didn’t say, I never said you supported them in your country. What I am saying is that countries that have supremacist groups active in their country have no moral high ground to complain about the same problem in another country.

One should look at numbers and when looking at population based is there a comparable percentage of active members per capita that is more significant and percentage of crimes committed.

The links I gave show that you have hate crimes by supremacist groups no different than here in my country. We have them here and cannot stop them from existing so not much point in me complaining about them in another country. Yes it is a problem and at this time in the Ukraine they are working with their govt for the good of the whole country. After this conflict we will see what happens but doubt that if they live within the laws of their country during peacetime there will be much done.

They have the right by constitution to exist in your country so why would you have a greater expectation of another country?

[el midgetron]

1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi El

My comments were not to criticize you personally. I don’t have to apologize for something I didn’t say, I never said you supported them in your country. What I am saying is that countries that have supremacist groups active in their country have no moral high ground to complain about the same problem in another country.

One should look at numbers and when looking at population based is there a comparable percentage of active members per capita that is more significant and percentage of crimes committed.

The links I gave show that you have hate crimes by supremacist groups no different than here in my country. We have them here and cannot stop them from existing so not much point in me complaining about them in another country. Yes it is a problem and at this time in the Ukraine they are working with their govt for the good of the whole country. After this conflict we will see what happens but doubt that if they live within the laws of their country during peacetime there will be much done.

They have the right by constitution to exist in your country so why would you have a greater expectation of another country?

Because Ukraine wants us to get directly involved in their war. That’s why it’s an issue for me. I’m not pointing out dog poo on other peoples shoes while standing in a cow pie myself. The war in Ukraine and their expectation that we should get involved is why it’s an issue for me, 

Just because there are Neo Nazis in the US doesn’t mean I have you support fighting along side Neo Nazis in another country. It doesn’t mean I have to remain silent and not call a Nazi a Nazi. The excuses and rationalization people are making for supporting Nazis is crazy talk. The US has a long history of arming bad characters to fight wars that are geo politically advantageous for US interests. I don’t support it in the Middle East and I don’t support it when the people are blonde hair’d and blue eyes’d Europeans. 
 

Ukraine has a Nazi problem. No thank you. 
 

 

 

[jmccr8]

12 hours ago, el midgetron said:

Because Ukraine wants us to get directly involved in their war. That’s why it’s an issue for me. I’m not pointing out dog poo on other peoples shoes while standing in a cow pie myself. The war in Ukraine and their expectation that we should get involved is why it’s an issue for me, 

Just because there are Neo Nazis in the US doesn’t mean I have you support fighting along side Neo Nazis in another country. It doesn’t mean I have to remain silent and not call a Nazi a Nazi. The excuses and rationalization people are making for supporting Nazis is crazy talk. The US has a long history of arming bad characters to fight wars that are geo politically advantageous for US interests. I don’t support it in the Middle East and I don’t support it when the people are blonde hair’d and blue eyes’d Europeans. 
 

Ukraine has a Nazi problem. No thank you. 
 

 

 

Hi El

Many times through history people have joined forces to overcome a common enemy, that doesn't mean they are friends they are just fighting a common cause. I don't support any racist factions, have had my share of living with racism and am well familiar with it. Just because I argue that there are nazi groups worldwide and ask you why your only concern is with the ones in the Ukraine when the exist in both of our countries. There are laws and if they break them then they should be brought to justice just like any other crime and they do get charged and convicted so it's not like there is a blind eye. People have the right to believe what they will and if they live within the confines of the law, with your logic all Catholics should be put in prison because some Catholics have abused children.

You did the same thing with Hunter Biden, no charges, no trial just lock him up in a basement whether he is guilty or not and without actually knowing what is on his laptop. You would be a dictator if given the chance and anyone who does not live up to your expectations would be punished without a hearing given your comments. Okay we disagree will I lose any sleep, nope not a wink nor would I expect you to either. I accept that you have a position and that is where it ends as I am under no obligation to fall in suit.

One might want to look at they numbers once again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

The battalion drew controversy over allegations of torture and war crimes, as well as neo-Nazi sympathies.^[14] It has used controversial symbols,^{[15][16][17][18]} including their logo, which resembles a Wolfsangel,^[2] a pagan symbol^[19] which was also used by some WW2 German Military units. Azov representatives deny links with neo-Nazism and state that the logo is an abbreviation of the slogan "National Idea" (Ukrainian: Ідея Нації, romanized: Ideya Natsiyi).^[15] In March 2015, a battalion spokesman told USA Today that around 10–20% of the unit were Nazis.^[20][21] A provision in the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2018, passed by the United States Congress, blocked military aid to Azov due to its white supremacist ideology; in 2015, a similar ban had been overturned by Congress.^[2][3] Members of the battalion came from 22 countries and are of various backgrounds.^[22][23] In 2017, the size of the regiment was estimated at more than 2,500 members,^[24] but was estimated to be 900 members in 2022.^[25]

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Forces_of_Ukraine#:~:text=The current size of Ukraine's,while ending conscription in 2024.}

Following hostilities with Russia in 2014, Ukraine increased the size of its armed forces to 204,000 soldiers (+46,000 civil servants), not counting additional forces such as the border guards (53,000), the newly formed National Guard of Ukraine (60,000) or the security service.^[10] The current size of Ukraine's armed forces, which consists of 250,000 (215,000 military personnel), makes it the second largest in the region after the Russian Armed Forces.^[11] In 2022, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy ordered an increase in the size of the forces by 100,000 by 2025, while ending conscription in 2024. Conscription will be replaced with short-term intensive military training.^[12]

So the numbers of nazis in the Ukrainian military is what about 1% of the whole, wow I am sure they will overthrow the Ukrainian military after Russia has been pushed back across the border. I really don't see much to worry about.

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by jmccr8

[el midgetron]

5 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi El

Many times through history people have joined forces to overcome a common enemy, that doesn't mean they are friends they are just fighting a common cause. I don't support any racist factions, have had my share of living with racism and am well familiar with it.

Is your “common cause” to rape, torture and murder Russian speaking Ukrainians? Because Azov has been doing that far longer than repelling Putin’s invasion. 

Probably the only good thing to come out of this war will be the annihilation of Azov and many of the other state sanctioned Neo Nazi groups in Ukraine. 

Quote

Just because I argue that there are nazi groups worldwide and ask you why your only concern is with the ones in the Ukraine when the exist in both of our countries.

I’ve explained why. They want the US to get directly involved in the war. I don’t even support arming these Nazis, 

Despite the weeks-old media narrative, the government of Ukraine isn’t worth a drop of blood. The people of Ukraine deserve peace, not a war between a foreign aggressor and domestic fascists. 

Quote

You did the same thing with Hunter Biden, no charges, no trial just lock him up in a basement whether he is guilty or not and without actually knowing what is on his laptop.

Yeah, clearly I was very serious about wanting United States Representative Matt Gaetz to make a citizens arrest and lock the presidents son in his basement.  

The irony is that from your soapbox from which you accuse me of being a fascist, you are supporting a government that for years has unleashed Neo Nazis upon its own people. 

[Helen of Annoy]

There are people who want to believe Ukraine is Nazi. Complete with Ukrainian president who happens to be Jewish. 

Who knows why. It doesn't even matter why. 

But the reason why Putin wants everyone in Russia to believe Ukraine is Nazi is because he wants to portray himself as someone who is saving Russia from a legitimate danger. 

Just because his rhetoric, methods and goals are Nazi-like, doesn't matter to him. His propaganda is not meant to be convincing, it's meant to be incendiary.  

Does it work? Depends. On the intelligence and mental health of particular person exposed to putinesque propaganda.  

[jmccr8]

2 hours ago, el midgetron said:

Is your “common cause” to rape, torture and murder Russian speaking Ukrainians? Because Azov has been doing that far longer than repelling Putin’s invasion. 

Probably the only good thing to come out of this war will be the annihilation of Azov and many of the other state sanctioned Neo Nazi groups in Ukraine. 

I’ve explained why. They want the US to get directly involved in the war. I don’t even support arming these Nazis, 

Despite the weeks-old media narrative, the government of Ukraine isn’t worth a drop of blood. The people of Ukraine deserve peace, not a war between a foreign aggressor and domestic fascists. 

Yeah, clearly I was very serious about wanting United States Representative Matt Gaetz to make a citizens arrest and lock the presidents son in his basement.  

The irony is that from your soapbox from which you accuse me of being a fascist, you are supporting a government that for years has unleashed Neo Nazis upon its own people. 

Hi El

You know actually I like you as a person and I didn’t call you a facist . I don”t have a soapbox, all I have been saying is that there are nazis in many countries yours and mine included and have wondered why only the Ukrainian nazis seem to be a burr under your saddle. I have shown you the numbers and you act like 1% of a military force is trying to overthrow the world.

I don’t see much point in you crusades on many topics but what the hey it’s a discussion forum. I don’t see the Ukraine begging you to come fight and doubt you personally would fight beside anyone in a war. Your a talker not a fighter

[Saru]

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