9/11: Debunking the myths

[UM-Bot]

From the moment the first airplane crashed into the World Trade Center on the morning of September 11, 2001, the world has asked one simple and compelling question: How could it happen?Three and a half years later, not everyone is convinced we know the truth.

Go to Google.com, type in the search phrase "World Trade Center conspiracy" and you'll get links to an estimated 628,000 Web sites.

View: Full Article | Source: Popular Mechanics

[Me_Again]

I guess one way to determine the truth would be to build a replicate of the building and then fly a airplane into it (of course not with people in it - remote controlled or something ). That would be interesting to see what happened

[Great Big Sea]

I think that would bring up many memories. And I for one wouldn't want to witness it.

[Walken]

I'm a firm beleiver that the USA set up 9/11 and directed it to warrant further middle eastern wars without loseing international face.

Good article, SaRuMaN. As always.

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

Thats nuts. If I believed our own country would kill its on people(through action or inaction), I would leave it.

[Walken]

Actually contrary to popular beleif (and common sense, seeing as you only need to look at the box by my name), I'm english.

Is it nuts? How can you possibly simply deny ALL the evidence that points towards a conspiriacy. Further more, I don't see you provideing any evidence against it. Or even offering an alternative.

Like you've said before, my ideas are normally prettey whacky anyway. although I'd actually challenge that with the fact that the chicken post was the only REALLY whacky thing I ever said, and thats a profound beleif of mine, not for you to judge.

[dmgspycat]

Thats nuts. If I believed our own country would kill its on people(through action or inaction), I would leave it.

516409[/snapback]

read Operation Northwoods if you think they wouldn't. Better start packing...

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

The poplular mechanics article answeres any questions I may have had. Believe what you want. Logical people don't normally believe the most far fetched ideas.

[Walken]

Obviously your knowledge of the events before and after, concerining 9/11, is very bleak. I understand you're unwilling to accept that your country would hurt it's own people, but open your mind and at least come fact to face with the evidence.

[Walken]

Obviously your knowledge of the events before and after, concerining 9/11, is very bleak. I understand you're unwilling to accept that your country would hurt it's own people, but open your mind and at least come fact to face with the evidence.

[dmgspycat]

.Healthy skepticism, it seems, has curdled into paranoia. Wild conspiracy tales are peddled daily on the Internet, talk radio and in other media. Blurry photos, quotes taken out of context and sketchy eyewitness accounts have inspired a slew of elaborate theories: The Pentagon was struck by a missile; the World Trade Center was razed by demolition-style bombs; Flight 93 was shot down by a mysterious white jet.

As outlandish as these claims may sound, they are increasingly accepted abroad and among extremists here in the United States.To investigate 16 of the most prevalent claims made by conspiracy theorists, Popular Mechanics assembled a team of nine researchers and reporters who, together with PM editors, consulted more than 70 professionals in fields that form the core content of this magazine, including aviation, engineering and the military.

516004[/snapback]

Saruman I am just a simple man making my way in the Universe...I resent the "Extremist" label, speaking as a believer of complicity by the US authorities. The falsification of evidence(like WMDs) and the retraction of evidence(23 page black-out concerning WH ties with Saudi-Arabia concerning the report by the 9-11 commission) is a gross abuse of power, it is rather that they are hiding something under the pretense of National Security. We have already been down this road before so why all the hype about getting more experts to comment about it? The International community has already spoken and a verdict has been reached

...guilty.

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

Walken, I pretty much don't agree with anything you post, ever.lol But heck, I am sceptic. We will just have to agree to disagree.

[Loge]

I heard that such a kind of conspiracy happened in Rome in the year 64 A.D.; however, instead of Bush it was Nero and instead of Musulim extremists there were Christians!

Nero Persecutes The Christians, 64 A.D.

"A generation after the death of Christ, Christianity had reached Rome in the form of an obscure offshoot of Judaism popular among the city's poor and destitute. Members of this religious sect spoke of the coming of a new kingdom and a new king. These views provoked suspicion among the Jewish authorities who rejected the group and fear among the Roman authorities who perceived these sentiments as a threat to the Empire.

"In the summer of 64, Rome suffered a terrible fire that burned for six days and seven nights consuming almost three quarters of the city. The people accused the Emperor Nero for the devastation claiming he set the fire for his own amusement. In order to deflect these accusations and placate the people, Nero laid blame for the fire on the Christians. The emperor ordered the arrest of a few members of the sect who, under torture, accused others until the entire Christian populace was implicated and became fair game for retribution. As many of the religious sect that could be found were rounded up and put to death in the most horrific manner for the amusement of the citizens of Rome. The ghastly way in which the victims were put to death aroused sympathy among many Romans, although most felt their execution justified.

Beginnings of Christian Martyrdom

"The following account was written by the Roman historian Tacitus in his book Annals published a few years after the event. Tacitus was a young boy living in Rome during the time of the persecutions.

"Therefore, to stop the rumor [that he had set Rome on fire], he [Emperor Nero] falsely charged with guilt, and punished with the most fearful tortures, the persons commonly called Christians, who were [generally] hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of that name, was put to death as a criminal by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea, in the reign of Tiberius, but the pernicious superstition - repressed for a time, broke out yet again, not only through Judea, - where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also, whither all things horrible and disgraceful flow from all quarters, as to a common receptacle, and where they are encouraged. Accordingly first those were arrested who confessed they were Christians; next on their information, a vast multitude were convicted, not so much on the charge of burning the city, as of "hating the human race."

"In their very deaths they were made the subjects of sport: for they were covered with the hides of wild beasts, and worried to death by dogs, or nailed to crosses, or set fire to, and when the day waned, burned to serve for the evening lights. Nero offered his own garden players for the spectacle, and exhibited a Circensian game, indiscriminately mingling with the common people in the dress of a charioteer, or else standing in his chariot. For this cause a feeling of compassion arose towards the sufferers, though guilty and deserving of exemplary capital punishment, because they seemed not to be cut off for the public good, but were victims of the ferocity of one man."

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/pfchristians.htm

[Saru]

Saruman I am just a simple man making my way in the Universe...I resent the "Extremist" label, speaking as a believer of complicity by the US authorities.

I'd just like to emphasise that this article does not reflect my own views on this subject, these are not my words.

Please see the source link for details of the author and web site on which this article was originally published.

[Stellar]

read Operation Northwoods if you think they wouldn't. Better start packing...

It was a plan... which got shot down and didnt happen.

[pallidin]

It's great to read an article(I read the entire thing) which responsibly, professionally and maturely addresses nearly every claim given by conspiracy theorists.

Points for responsible investigation in that article: 100

Points for conspiracy theorists I've listened to in UM: 0

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

The beautiful vocie of reason.

[HowdyDoo]

I read the entire article. I found it very well done. I would suggest that those commenting on this subject should read the entire article before responding (either way).

oops...Pallidin posted before me--sorry for the recap.

Edited March 8, 2005 by HowdyDoo

[ROGER]

Don't let them get to you Saruman. I enjoy most of the articles posted . One person can not keep up with the millions of news storys written around the word in a given day. Your posting of the extreme points of view gives us all a different perspective on subjects that are not "Clear cut". I try to read them all, do my own research if the topic is of interest to ME, and draw my own conclusions.

Thats why I return to these forum, to see what the others in the World are thinking, not to just blindly agree. Keep up the good work please.

As for the topic at hand, on 9-11 the whole world was caught with their pants down. I Don't agree with all of G.W.B.'s policys, but I Don't think even HE would try to use U.S. and Government resources to fake an attack on our own people. To many people would have to be involved that the truth would leak out all most at once. As for the conspiracys creators, Paranoia is a mental disease that can be helped with the right medications.

[Elvite]

How can you possibly simply deny ALL the evidence that points towards a conspiriacy.

516415[/snapback]

I recommend you actually read the article. It is all about the so called "evidence" you are referring to and completely refutes it. Sadly, there are those out there who (even when faced with the truth) will refuse to accept it and hold on to a fantasy that supports their idealogy. An idealogy that is first to blame the United States (or Bush) for any evil in the world, apparently.

Further more, I don't see you provideing any evidence against it. Or even offering an alternative.

516415[/snapback]

It's not necessary for anyone to disprove it, because the burden of proof lies with the conspiracy theorists. However, if you want evidence against it, read the PM article or any of the referring sources they cite.

Why must an alternative be provided, when the truth is plain to see? Why can't you just accept that extremist muslim terrorists hi-jacked commercial airplanes and consequently slaughtered thousands of innocent (yes innocent) men, women, and children and devastated the lives of millions?

[Sunofone]

I recommend you actually read the article. It is all about the so called "evidence" you are referring to and completely refutes it. Sadly, there are those out there who (even when faced with the truth) will refuse to accept it and hold on to a fantasy that supports their idealogy. An idealogy that is first to blame the United States (or Bush) for any evil in the world, apparently.

It's not necessary for anyone to disprove it, because the burden of proof lies with the conspiracy theorists. However, if you want evidence against it, read the PM article or any of the referring sources they cite.

Why must an alternative be provided, when the truth is plain to see? Why can't you just accept that extremist muslim terrorists hi-jacked commercial airplanes and consequently slaughtered thousands of innocent (yes innocent) men, women, and children and devastated the lives of millions?

517066[/snapback]

ha lol you are not a thorough investigator if you came to this conclusion-the article is supposed to be about 9/11 yet it somehow brings up icke and uses the debunking of him to somehow rationalize their point,while the real hardcore issues were avoided---bush on anthrax vac. cipro before the attack,norad standing down,who profitted from stock trades in suspicious trading prior to 9/11,bush's security failure during the goat story,"wtc7" and silverstein's 7 billion dolar payoff,why the pentagon stood down,pools of molten steel in wtc1,2,6,7 ,bushes link to bin ladens through the carlyle group,why bin ladens were allowed to flee country while every other plane in america was grounded--there are many more but ill end it there and bring up a good point that alex jones brought up the other day in his radio broadcast(which can be heard free everyday 11-2a,9p-12 by going to infowars.com) which labels this popular propaganda article a hit piece-the main reporter responsible just happens to be related to the new homeland security czar-they are cousins-

REPORTING: Benjamin Chertoff, Davin Coburn, Michael Connery, David Enders, Kevin Haynes, Kristin Roth, Tracy Saelinger, Erik Sofge and the editors of POPULAR MECHANICS

Edited March 9, 2005 by Sunofone

[Mr. Blonde]

I read it all, well hahaha most of it. I still stand by my no plane hit the Pentagon though, but then that leads to never ending questions. Like I've said, the whole thing makes me sick, theres just too many layers of filth to deal with. I want some HARD evidence, some sick soil your trousers proof. This is just too sick.

[pallidin]

I recommend you actually read the article. It is all about the so called "evidence" you are referring to and completely refutes it. Sadly, there are those out there who (even when faced with the truth) will refuse to accept it and hold on to a fantasy that supports their idealogy. An idealogy that is first to blame the United States (or Bush) for any evil in the world, apparently.

It's not necessary for anyone to disprove it, because the burden of proof lies with the conspiracy theorists. However, if you want evidence against it, read the PM article or any of the referring sources they cite.

Why must an alternative be provided, when the truth is plain to see? Why can't you just accept that extremist muslim terrorists hi-jacked commercial airplanes and consequently slaughtered thousands of innocent (yes innocent) men, women, and children and devastated the lives of millions?

517066[/snapback]

ha lol you are not a thorough investigator if you came to this conclusion-the article is supposed to be about 9/11 yet it somehow brings up icke and uses the debunking of him to somehow rationalize their point,while the real hardcore issues were avoided---bush on anthrax vac. cipro before the attack,norad standing down,who profitted from stock trades in suspicious trading prior to 9/11,bush's security failure during the goat story,"wtc7" and silverstein's 7 billion dolar payoff,why the pentagon stood down,pools of molten steel in wtc1,2,6,7 ,bushes link to bin ladens through the carlyle group,why bin ladens were allowed to flee country while every other plane in america was grounded--there are many more but ill end it there and bring up a good point that alex jones brought up the other day in his radio broadcast(which can be heard free everyday 11-2a,9p-12 by going to infowars.com) which labels this popular propaganda article a hit piece-the main reporter responsible just happens to be related to the new homeland security czar-they are cousins-

REPORTING: Benjamin Chertoff, Davin Coburn, Michael Connery, David Enders, Kevin Haynes, Kristin Roth, Tracy Saelinger, Erik Sofge and the editors of POPULAR MECHANICS

517143[/snapback]

Careful with the conspiracy theorists: Reasoning is impossible with them. Even the very word itself, reasoning, speaks of some sort of conspiracy within their mind.

Edited March 9, 2005 by pallidin

[pallidin]

With conspiracy theorists, you can say 1+1=2(the facts), and if you ask, "what does 2+3="(extensions on the facts), they answer "the sky is green because of pollution from oil companies controlled by the Illuminati"

Never a direct answer when you pin-them-down with facts, they just port over into some rambling insanity to deflect the original question.

[pallidin]

In a way, it kind of reminds me of the "cultish" buddhist philosophy I hear from time-to-time. They are not REALLY interested in your answers to their claims, rather they are interested in your believing their perspectives of it.