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Near-death experiences: four possible theories


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41 minutes ago, csspwns said:

The reason I want it to exist is different from most believers where many seek comfort from their beliefs. I want it to exist for the practical aspects such as psychic communication, faith healing, metaphysical "energies", etc which would greatly benefit humanity if they were real. 

The bottom line is...you want something to exist that doesn't exist.   That's the great thing about reality.  It's real.  There are no practical aspects to fantasy.  Other than entertainment.

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1 hour ago, joc said:

The bottom line is...you want something to exist that doesn't exist.   That's the great thing about reality.  It's real.  There are no practical aspects to fantasy.  Other than entertainment.

That's all you need for a want. They are for entertainment some of the time too. 

I saw this HK Holden on my way home from work last night. Immaculate, blower sticking a good foot out the bonnet, the sound actually vibrated my own car sitting behind it at the lights 

I want it. But that's just a healthy fantasy. 

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7 hours ago, psyche101 said:

That's all you need for a want. They are for entertainment some of the time too. 

I saw this HK Holden on my way home from work last night. Immaculate, blower sticking a good foot out the bonnet, the sound actually vibrated my own car sitting behind it at the lights 

I want it. But that's just a healthy fantasy. 

Not so fast Scooter Boy! :P

Desire is the starting point for all achievement.  The difference between your fantasy for the HK and @csspwns fantasy for the paranormal to exist is that the HK does indeed exist.  If you wanted it bad enough, you could find a way to get one.  Desire for the paranormal to exist is pure fantasy.  No amount of wanting or thinking or praying or studying or analyzing or researching can ever make it real...because it isn't.  

 

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11 hours ago, joc said:

Not so fast Scooter Boy! :P

Desire is the starting point for all achievement.  The difference between your fantasy for the HK and @csspwns fantasy for the paranormal to exist is that the HK does indeed exist.  If you wanted it bad enough, you could find a way to get one.  Desire for the paranormal to exist is pure fantasy.  No amount of wanting or thinking or praying or studying or analyzing or researching can ever make it real...because it isn't.  

 

I mean I totally agree with you on paranormal being fantasy (unless evidence of it not materializes) but my want for this fantasy to exist isn't harmful in any way. I don't lose sleep over my want nor does it affect my daily activities. Only during my freetime will I spend the time to look at paranormal cases and news, so yes it is a form of entertainment too. As long as my want isn't detrimental, I don't see a reason to not keep wanting even if it's fantasy. 

 

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On 4/30/2022 at 2:27 PM, psyche101 said:

I want it. But that's just a healthy fantasy. 

It's not healthy, have you tried getting parts for old Holdens recently, lol.

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13 hours ago, csspwns said:
On 4/30/2022 at 9:44 PM, joc said:

 

I mean I totally agree with you on paranormal being fantasy (unless evidence of it not materializes)

Well that's never going to happen because the paranormal is not a material realm.

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5 minutes ago, openozy said:

Well that's never going to happen because the paranormal is not a material realm.

Then it could be said to immaterial, as in of the mind. Imagination and perception.

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8 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Then it could be said to immaterial, as in of the mind. Imagination and perception.

It could be and it is spiritual.

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When it does cross over people shoot it down in flames, it's too much for them.

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4 hours ago, openozy said:

It could be and it is spiritual.

Spiritual is also fantasy.  It isn't real.  There is no 'veil' between life and death.  There is only life and inanimate objects.  That is all that exists.  The idea of Spirits is simply that...an idea.  A fantasy made up in the mind out of whole cloth.  

It could be and it is fantasy.  Please understand OpenOzy...I am not denigrating your beliefs in anyway.  You believe whatever you believe...all of those who believe do...and it is perfectly fine and normal to believe things.  But what is believed is fantasy.  What is known is reality.  There is a difference.  Paranormal is fantasy.

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4 hours ago, openozy said:

It could be and it is spiritual.

I see spiritual as being the emotional essense or meaning of a thought or thing. Some one were to see a recently deceased relative, one they cared deeply about. That experience could be easily debunked. However that isn't the real issue. It is what the experiencer took from that experience. Did it help resolve the loss? Was it meaningful to them? 

If the experience allowed them to move forward, the reality of it is meaningless, the results of it are what actually matters. 

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6 hours ago, XenoFish said:

f the experience allowed them to move forward, the reality of it is meaningless, the results of it are what actually matters

I'd call that a positive paranormal experience.

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6 hours ago, joc said:

Paranormal is fantasy.

In a way I agree, everyone sees the world differently. Your fantasy may be my reality.

 

6 hours ago, joc said:

Spiritual is also fantasy.  It isn't real.  There is no 'veil' between life and death

It's not real to you, that's ok by me.

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6 hours ago, joc said:

You believe whatever you believe...all of those who believe do...and it is perfectly fine and normal to believe things. 

I don't think it's normal to believe in anything paranormal, sight unseen, apart from if you deeply know the person making the claim. This would make you normal as far as I'm concerned.

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1 hour ago, openozy said:
8 hours ago, joc said:

Paranormal is fantasy.

In a way I agree, everyone sees the world differently. Your fantasy may be my reality.

 

Well, see the thing is, reality has nothing to do with how anyone sees the world.  Reality is what is real whether anyone is around to see anything or not.  Reality is real.  Your reality is different than mine.  But your reality and my reality both have one thing in common...they are real.  Your fantasies may be different than mine but the one thing they both have in common is that they are fantasy, not reality.  :)

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2 hours ago, joc said:

Well, see the thing is, reality has nothing to do with how anyone sees the world.  Reality is what is real whether anyone is around to see anything or not.  Reality is real.  Your reality is different than mine.  But your reality and my reality both have one thing in common...they are real.  Your fantasies may be different than mine but the one thing they both have in common is that they are fantasy, not reality.  :)

Yeah, I don't fantasize about the paranormal though I experience it. :tu:

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, openozy said:

Yeah, I don't fantasize about the paranormal though I experience it. :tu:

Genuine question. How are you able to determine that your experience isn't delusion or misunderstanding/misidentification of a mundane event? There doesn't seem to be any strict rules that govern the paranormal whereas events that occur in reality can be observed and experienced by anyone. How do you "check/verify" that what you are experiencing is actually happening?

Edited by csspwns
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35 minutes ago, csspwns said:

Genuine question. How are you able to determine that your experience isn't delusion or misunderstanding/misidentification of a mundane event? There doesn't seem to be any strict rules that govern the paranormal whereas events that occur in reality can be observed and experienced by anyone. How do you "check/verify" that what you are experiencing is actually happening?

That is a good question. Mostly through other people's similar or identical experiences and witnesses that were with me on a number of occasions. I understand you dismissing this stuff and when I first started the experiences I questioned my mental state but I have enough proof for myself to verify this. I don't have special powers, I'm just extra sensitive. If you are interested all you need is an open mind, I wasn't being smart with this I was trying to help you. You having a time and brain consuming job might mean this could be difficult for you. If you put up walls of doubt you will never experience this, you have to let your mind be free.

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2 hours ago, openozy said:

That is a good question. Mostly through other people's similar or identical experiences and witnesses that were with me on a number of occasions. I understand you dismissing this stuff and when I first started the experiences I questioned my mental state but I have enough proof for myself to verify this. I don't have special powers, I'm just extra sensitive. If you are interested all you need is an open mind, I wasn't being smart with this I was trying to help you. You having a time and brain consuming job might mean this could be difficult for you. If you put up walls of doubt you will never experience this, you have to let your mind be free.

What does Let your mind be free actually mean?  I am not questioning your mental state.  I think that you are not really getting the logical point that 'experience' does not equal reality.  The experience is real.  But the cause of the experience?  Chemicals in your brain.  One of the defining characteristics of Napoleon Hill's, Think and Grow Rich philosophy is that the subconscious mind seeks to reinforce whatever the conscious mind is thinking.  The subconscious mind accesses memory files to help support the conscious mind's thought process.  So, the experience you have is one thing...what you 'think' about the experience is yet another.  People experience all kinds of things on mind altering drugs...the experience is real...but the reality is still the same as it has always been.

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1 hour ago, joc said:

What does Let your mind be free actually mean?  I am not questioning your mental state.  I think that you are not really getting the logical point that 'experience' does not equal reality.

To not limit your thinking by staying in your comfort zone, don't doubt anything for a minute of your life, it takes practice. Experience does equal reality when you have sober witnesses to it. These are the times it crosses over and I think anyone could witness it but it may overwhelm some and others will blank it out and never speak of it or deny it.

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2 hours ago, openozy said:

o not limit your thinking by staying in your comfort zone, don't doubt anything for a minute of your life, it takes practice.

I would guess you doubt lots of things.  To literally not doubt anything is to not understand anything, why I sometimes find mail in my mailbox has endless possible answers unless doubting is involved.

2 hours ago, openozy said:

Experience does equal reality when you have sober witnesses to it.

No, not necessarily.

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Living is a near death experience because only the living can die.

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On 4/30/2022 at 11:51 AM, joc said:

Why do you WANT it to exist?  That statement in and of itself illustrates the fantasy involved in the paranormal.  People want it to be real.  Why?  I think the answer to 'why?' is because people are so confused by life they don't even know what is real anymore.  Reality isn't hard.  Fantasy is hard.  Reality is the fast ball coming at you at 90 mph...

C'mon Joc, if there are three questions every single living being has asked themselves sometime in their lifetime they are: 'what is life', 'what is the universe' and 'what happens after we die'.  There's probably a 4th one for the more religious, 'Does God exist'.

You're no different buddy.

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4 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

C'mon Joc, if there are three questions every single living being has asked themselves sometime in their lifetime they are: 'what is life', 'what is the universe' and 'what happens after we die'.  There's probably a 4th one for the more religious, 'Does God exist'.

You're no different buddy.

Perhaps an alternative 4th or 5th question would be something like "what is the point of it all?"

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7 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

No, not necessarily.

Witnesses are good enough to send people to be executed.

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