The Christian Church/The Kingdom of Heaven.

[Ove]

9 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Not even that. Faith and Belief do not become an organized religion until a Priesthood and an ecclesiastical hierarchy are created.

Revelation 1:6 "He has made us a kingdom, priests to His God and Father"

1 Peter 2:5 "you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood"

1 Corinthians 3:16 "Do you not know that you are God’s temple" 

Revelation 5:19 "you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 20:6 "they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years"

God's kingdom = God's rule on Earth, God's rulers on Earth.

To enter the kingdom = become a coruler 

2 Timothy 2:12 "if we endure, we will also reign with him"

Revelation 3:21 "The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne"

 

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Ove

[Will Due]

31 minutes ago, Ove said:

God's kingdom = God's rule on Earth

 

Yes I agree and I'll add that God's rule on Earth can only happen through the enshrinement of the doing of his will in the heart of the individual. "The kingdom of God is within you".

 

 

[Ove]

2 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

Yes I agree and I'll add that God's rule on Earth can only happen through the enshrinement of the doing of his will in the heart of the individual. "The kingdom of God is within you".

God the Father is within us

John 16:10 "I am going to the Father and you will no longer see Me"

John 14:28 "I am going away and I am coming to you"

John 14:28 "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. In a little while the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you"

Jesus went to the Father within the Apostles, that together had become, the body of Christ, the new Tempel and House of God..

Edited April 28, 2022 by Ove

[psyche101]

9 hours ago, Will Due said:

Yes I agree and I'll add that God's rule on Earth can only happen through the enshrinement of the doing of his will in the heart of the individual.

You are deciding what his will is instead of listening to it.

That's why organised religion is for the truly faithful. Spirituality is for those who decide what to be faithful to. Cherry picking in essence. 

9 hours ago, Will Due said:

"The kingdom of God is within you".

This is incredibly simple.

It's like the centre of the universe thing. You have an idea that you have concocted on your head through your own interpretation of religious plagiarism. 

Only you have the ability to reach the kingdom of God through subjugation. It's within you. If it's not you don't even get to the pearly gates. It's not on earth. Never was intended like that. That's actually quite a leap. 

[Will Due]

31 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

You are deciding what his will is instead of listening to it.

That's why organised religion is for the truly faithful. Spirituality is for those who decide what to be faithful to. Cherry picking in essence. 

This is incredibly simple.

It's like the centre of the universe thing. You have an idea that you have concocted on your head through your own interpretation of religious plagiarism. 

Only you have the ability to reach the kingdom of God through subjugation. It's within you. If it's not you don't even get to the pearly gates. It's not on earth. Never was intended like that. That's actually quite a leap. 

 

In response, if you don't mind, I'll leave you with this:

 

"I have called you out of the darkness of authority and the lethargy of tradition into the transcendent light of the realization of the possibility of making for yourselves the greatest discovery possible for the human soul to make—the supernal experience of finding God for yourself, in yourself, and of yourself, and of doing all this as a fact in your own personal experience. And so may you pass from death to life, from the authority of tradition to the experience of knowing God; thus will you pass from darkness to light, from a racial faith inherited to a personal faith achieved by actual experience; and thereby will you progress from a theology of mind handed down by your ancestors to a true religion of spirit which shall be built up in your soul

 

"Never forget there is only one adventure which is more satisfying and thrilling than the attempt to discover the will of the living God, and that is the supreme experience of honestly trying to do that divine will. And fail not to remember that the will of God can be done in any earthly occupation. Some callings are not holy and others secular. All things are sacred in the lives of those who are spirit led; that is, subordinated to truth, ennobled by love, dominated by mercy, and restrained by fairness

 

 

 

[XenoFish]

God said unto me, "Don't be a prick to one another." The end.

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Will Due said:

In response, if you don't mind, I'll leave you with this:

 

"I have called you out of the darkness of authority and the lethargy of tradition into the transcendent light of the realization of the possibility of making for yourselves the greatest discovery possible for the human soul to make—the supernal experience of finding God for yourself, in yourself, and of yourself, and of doing all this as a fact in your own personal experience. And so may you pass from death to life, from the authority of tradition to the experience of knowing God; thus will you pass from darkness to light, from a racial faith inherited to a personal faith achieved by actual experience; and thereby will you progress from a theology of mind handed down by your ancestors to a true religion of spirit which shall be built up in your soul

 

"Never forget there is only one adventure which is more satisfying and thrilling than the attempt to discover the will of the living God, and that is the supreme experience of honestly trying to do that divine will. And fail not to remember that the will of God can be done in any earthly occupation. Some callings are not holy and others secular. All things are sacred in the lives of those who are spirit led; that is, subordinated to truth, ennobled by love, dominated by mercy, and restrained by fairness

I do mind Will. That is extremely lazy. And it doesn't answer anything. It's just donkey preaching. 

This is the problem with personal spirituality. You can't propose anything with validity. And that is what you have done here. You used another's poor reason to veer away from Bible teachings and feel that it validates cherry picking. 

It doesn't. 

Personal spirituality is personal. It's what things mean to the person. Not any god or its will. 

For a truly devout follower, the effort of church like Jesus allegedly attended, guidance on gods will, would be more like gods will. I don't think any god would be impressed with random people a over the place interpreting his will. 

I don't think you are doing gods will as it has been proposed. If anything your over the top UB posting turns people away from religion. How could that possibly be gods will? 

You either commit or you don't. Following the UB isn't anything but a personal commitment on what you want to be correct. You're not some persecuted religious disciple, your just doing your thing your way. 

[+Hammerclaw]

20 hours ago, Ove said:

Revelation 1:6 "He has made us a kingdom, priests to His God and Father"

1 Peter 2:5 "you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood"

1 Corinthians 3:16 "Do you not know that you are God’s temple" 

Revelation 5:19 "you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 20:6 "they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years"

God's kingdom = God's rule on Earth, God's rulers on Earth.

To enter the kingdom = become a coruler 

2 Timothy 2:12 "if we endure, we will also reign with him"

Revelation 3:21 "The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne"

 

 

Interpolations, written by clergy, glorifying the Priesthood.

[Coil]

In the future, a new all-Christian church will appear that will fight the Antichrist.

And when our humanity comes to the impossibility to develop further in a biological body due to the destruction of all civilizational foundations and nature, then all the bodies of living beings will be transformed into a non-physical state. And from the heaven a city will descend to earth with a size of 1 thousand km, which will be inhabited by people devoted to God. Now this city is being intensively built in heaven. These people will not know death, grief and suffering.

People who are far from God and rooted in evil will be allocated two special places on earth.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Coil

[XenoFish]

1 hour ago, Coil said:

In the future, a new all-Christian church will appear that will fight the Antichrist.

And when our humanity comes to the impossibility to develop further in a biological body due to the destruction of all civilizational foundations and nature, then all the bodies of living beings will be transformed into a non-physical state. And from the heaven a city will descend to earth with a size of 1 thousand km, which will be inhabited by people devoted to God. Now this city is being intensively built in heaven. These people will not know death, grief and suffering.

People who are far from God and rooted in evil will be allocated two special places on earth.

I could spin this into an epic tale of humans transcending their mortal bodies for cybernetic ones. Doing so because they leave earth and go to "heaven" (space). This city being a massive orbital space station. 

All Hail the Omnissiah.

[lightly]

On 4/26/2022 at 9:06 PM, Mr Walker said:

To put it very simply, if you get a diagnosis of serious cancer  there are 3 possible emotional Reponses. Hope,  despair, or indifference 

Of the 3, hope is the cognitive mechanism evolved to best deal with such crises 

It enables emotional stability psychological well being and the strength and will to carry on  

Interestingly, because of the mind/ body connection, hope (and faith)  also increases your physical chances of recovery

We choose Reponses like fear, after being conditioned to feel them , (it is not woo to learn how  to undo that conditioning and learn how to choose to feel fear or not To learn the cognitive /psychological skills and methods   to minimise or avoid them. We  can "grow" both courage and fear  through our cognitive choices  Hope is a tool which helps us resist fear and despair, and gives us courage 

Hope should  not encourage foolishness and, personally, I cant see how, or why, it would. You would also seek the best medical advice But hope stands outside that It is what sustains you when you have got all the possible advice and are following it    Eg  The specialist says you have a 50 /50 chance of surviving an operation How you perceive that, and what degree of hope you feel, is important  to your emotional and physical well being  

Better to go to the operating table hoping to live  even if you die, than believing you will die.

A lack of hope, in that sort of scenario, might cause a person not to undergo the operation,  knowing they would die eventually (say within a year or two) but not immediately, whereas if the y lived through the op.  they might have many decades of life .  

I was ‘given’ 4 months..(if I did nothing). .to two years (no matter what I did)    to live,  4 years or so ago     My response was.  “ OK! “    I didn’t grasp at hope..or despair.   I sort of just stayed Neutral about it, and stay at peace (the best I could) and continued to feel fairly well (all treatments and things considered) ,and kept doing things that I love to do ,and loving the people I love, and living life!   I did what I was told to do and have had much better results than expected!     I know I had people ‘pulling’ for me ..and some saying a prayer now and then (which I am grateful for). and I honestly think that all helped!   (I dunno how all that stuff works,,but there is something to ‘it’)    I haven’t really prayed about it myself..(much). But ..I have uttered a few. “Thank you Lord!” s      

[lightly]

But more on topic…I think the biggest difference between the Church and Heaven is. .nobody wants to go to church when they die. 

[+joc]

On 4/26/2022 at 8:06 PM, Mr Walker said:

To put it very simply, if you get a diagnosis of serious cancer  there are 3 possible emotional Reponses. Hope,  despair, or indifference 

Of the 3, hope is the cognitive mechanism evolved to best deal with such crises 

There is a Fourth...Understanding.  Understanding that everything and everyone dies.  It is completely natural and to be expected.  

Hope is a Fantasy, and I don't think it is altogether healthy to involve oneself in 'hope'.  One can only change the things one has power to change.   But then again you are talking about most people and I get that.  

Just wondering out loud how many times someone has been killed in a traffic accident on their way to the hospital to receive a 'treatment' because their 'hope' was that it would work and they wouldn't die.

The truth is always that we are all half a breath away from death.  And the other truth is that when we die, we won't know it.  And the other truth is that death is always sad for someone.

Edited May 1, 2022 by joc

[lightly]

The truth is…none of us knows what is going to happen.  .so,  hope is no more of a    fantasy    than pessimism is ? 
          …I was reading about studies done on positive thinking. ..as opposed to negative thinking.   By John Hopkins University and others..with some interesting results. 

[psyche101]

On 5/1/2022 at 2:48 AM, Coil said:

In the future, a new all-Christian church will appear that will fight the Antichrist.

And when our humanity comes to the impossibility to develop further in a biological body due to the destruction of all civilizational foundations and nature, then all the bodies of living beings will be transformed into a non-physical state. And from the heaven a city will descend to earth with a size of 1 thousand km, which will be inhabited by people devoted to God. Now this city is being intensively built in heaven. These people will not know death, grief and suffering.

People who are far from God and rooted in evil will be allocated two special places on earth.

Churches are declining. Traditional beliefs are waning. 

We don't survive as non physical beings. You're just rehashing superstitious nonsense. Your predictions wouldn't even make a good disaster movie. 

[psyche101]

3 hours ago, lightly said:

The truth is…none of us knows what is going to happen.  .so,  hope is no more of a    fantasy    than pessimism is ? 
          …I was reading about studies done on positive thinking. ..as opposed to negative thinking.   By John Hopkins University and others..with some interesting results. 

We do know that's going to happen.

Some believe something more takes place. Creation fables are extensive and imaginative. Plenty of self satisfying options to choose from. That's to avoid harsh reality. We know we will die, and we know nobody comes back from that. 

[+joc]

4 hours ago, lightly said:

hope is no more of a    fantasy    than pessimism is ? 
         

Pessimism is fantasy.  It isn't real.  It's what is going on inside your head...everything going on in your head is 'mental'...all thought process is...mental.  Everything 'mental' is fantasy...not real.  

Hope...    Hope for what?  Hope things get better?  They either will or they won't.  If you can affect change, then do it.  If  you cannot affect change because it is beyond your control then what good is hope?  

Obama made me think about hope.  Never thought about it before Hope and Change.   That's when I realized it was a fantasy.  Hoping things get better, hoping things change doesn't do diddly.  What will actually affect change is the person who is 'hoping' actually doing something to affect change.  If you can actually do something to affect change then do it...change it.  What does hope have to do with it?  If you cannot affect change...example:  it's raining and I need it to stop raining so I can work....will hoping it will stop raining accomplish anything?  No.  It will stop raining...but you are powerless to stop the rain.

So, in review, Hope is a pointless exercise that we have all been 'programmed' into.  But hope is a lie. 

[+joc]

8 hours ago, lightly said:

But more on topic…I think the biggest difference between the Church and Heaven is. .nobody wants to go to church when they die. 

And nobody wants to go to Heaven either if it's anything like Church.

[Will Due]

13 minutes ago, joc said:

And nobody wants to go to Heaven either if it's anything like Church.

 

And then there are those who want to go to Heaven because their understanding of The Christian Church is somewhat different than The Kingdom of Heaven.

 

 

[+joc]

6 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

And then there are those who want to go to Heaven because their understanding of The Christian Church is somewhat different than The Kingdom of Heaven.

 

 

Heaven/Hell  How does one know either place exists?  No one has ever come back to life after they were dead to tell us.  

Oh wait...never mind...this isn't a conversation about Logic...it's a conversation about Belief.  Two entirely different things.  One is real.  The other is fantasy.

 

[lightly]

8 hours ago, joc said:

Pessimism is fantasy.  It isn't real.  It's what is going on inside your head...everything going on in your head is 'mental'...all thought process is...mental.  Everything 'mental' is fantasy...not real.  

Hope...    Hope for what?  Hope things get better?  They either will or they won't.  If you can affect change, then do it.  If  you cannot affect change because it is beyond your control then what good is hope?  

Obama made me think about hope.  Never thought about it before Hope and Change.   That's when I realized it was a fantasy.  Hoping things get better, hoping things change doesn't do diddly.  What will actually affect change is the person who is 'hoping' actually doing something to affect change.  If you can actually do something to affect change then do it...change it.  What does hope have to do with it?  If you cannot affect change...example:  it's raining and I need it to stop raining so I can work....will hoping it will stop raining accomplish anything?  No.  It will stop raining...but you are powerless to stop the rain.

So, in review, Hope is a pointless exercise that we have all been 'programmed' into.  But hope is a lie. 

Top o’ the morning to you joc!     I was just talking about hope as a thought.  In life.  Aren’t thoughts real?  If I say “I hope it warms up here soon”…I’m simply expressing a thought. ..not indulging in fantasy or suffering a delusion…or lying.   If I wish someone Happy Birthday! ..it’s simply an expression of my sincere hope that they have a happy birthday.

  

Edited May 2, 2022 by lightly

[XenoFish]

12 hours ago, joc said:

Pessimism is fantasy.  It isn't real.  It's what is going on inside your head...everything going on in your head is 'mental'...all thought process is...mental.  Everything 'mental' is fantasy...not real.  

Same applies to optimism. The problem I see with this perspective is that mental can become physical. An elaborate fantasy within the mental sphere can be turned into a book, work of art, or even a game. Depending on the fantasy/thought and through sharing it, there is a possibility it could become real. Societies are shaped by immaterial things (thoughts). It's taking it out of our heads that matters.

[lightly]

13 hours ago, psyche101 said:

We do know that's going to happen.

Some believe something more takes place. Creation fables are extensive and imaginative. Plenty of self satisfying options to choose from. That's to avoid harsh reality. We know we will die, and we know nobody comes back from that. 

I should have said..no one knows what will happen..In Life.   No one can see the future clearly.   So, Most seem to gravitate toward hope rather than nihilism ?   <  (I looked that word up)            Hope is just a sort of wish? ..while Faith is a Belief.   What one Believes could be ‘right’ or wrong!  I suppose,  but a simple,human, hope deserves no judgment or condemnation?     
              And I’m still wondering about joc’s declaration that mental processes and thoughts are not real ! ?   I guess someone should have told Einstein that E=mc2  ..was pure fantasy?   and not relevant?   …how about all the ‘thoughts’ written in all the books?   and all the thoughts that became songs?   Unreal?  
          …excellent point X!   (we posted at the same time)      Oya,  and optimism and pessimism are not fantasy either.  They are obviously real…what is in question here is their  EFFECTIVENESS.  ?

Edited May 2, 2022 by lightly

[XenoFish]

34 minutes ago, lightly said:

optimism and pessimism are not fantasy either.  They are obviously real…what is in question here is their  EFFECTIVENESS.  ?

Both are a fantasy. Each concept is merely a way of seeing the world as one wishes. Never being a pure representation of what is. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by XenoFish

[+joc]

16 hours ago, lightly said:

Top o’ the morning to you joc!     I was just talking about hope as a thought.  In life.  Aren’t thoughts real?  If I say “I hope it warms up here soon”…I’m simply expressing a thought. ..not indulging in fantasy or suffering a delusion…or lying.   If I wish someone Happy Birthday! ..it’s simply an expression of my sincere hope that they have a happy birthday.

  

Thoughts are things.  So,  yes, thoughts are real.  But...what are we thinking about...is that real?  There are 'reality' based thoughts.  And 'fantasy' based thoughts. 

I'm not really talking about, I hope the wind dies down soon.  I'm talking about hope as in:  Don't give up hope.  What does that even mean?  Nothing!  It means nothing...and what I was saying about hoping it stops raining is just an illustration of how inadequate hope is for a coping mechanism.  Hope to cope?  No!   Hope gets you nowhere...hope is not the same thing as not giving up. 

However, because thoughts are things, we must take care in what we think...and we must take care in how the thoughts of others influence us.  

It is what...keeping it real...actually means.  Keeping our thoughts real.  Reality based thoughts.  Here is a reality based logical thought process for example:  Dead people don't come back to life.  The body and the brain create our Mental State.  When the body dies we are dead.  If our consciousness remained after we died then why do we even need a body in the first place?  The entire idea that life continues after death is completely silly on a reality based thought level.  But Fantasy and Myth is strong medicine in the human mind.  These Fantasy Based Thought processes are apparently in our dna after having thunk them for so many thousands of years.