Time

[8th_wall]

On 4/20/2022 at 5:17 AM, jmccr8 said:

Hi Psi

Time is a manmade construct that does not exist in nature and is used as a tool by it's creators.

Absolutely correct.  Its mechanisation does not extend in accuracy last 1 * 10^-20? seconds as the isotope decay of a very particular atom has it.  The day we run at Planck second+ 1 unit of time (SI unit g) is the day we are synchronised to base reality.

[8th_wall]

On 4/21/2022 at 1:50 PM, Mr Walker said:

This is true, from a human perspective, and I was going to post something almost identical. To humans EVERYTHING is a construct of our mind 

However time also exists, like everything else which is real, outside of human perception. It would exist if every human being ceased to exist, and it existed before any of us did 

Without time there would be no change, and thus entropy is one of the most visible ways to illustrate the existence of time. Time can be measured by change. No change, and time does not exist. Any change at all, and time does exist.  

 

quote

Among physicists, there is no real doubt that time does really, truly exist. It's a measurable, observable phenomenon. Physicists are just divided a bit on what causes this existence, and what it means to say that it exists. Indeed, this question borders the realm of metaphysics and ontology (the philosophy of existence) as much as it does on the strictly empirical questions about time that physics is well-equipped to address.

https://www.thoughtco.com/does-time-really-exist-2699430

The American child prodigy Jacob can lay out time as the 4th dimension in completion in 30 minutes.  Abso-lutely brilliant mastery and way of illustrating and including the half hour life.

[8th_wall]

On 4/22/2022 at 8:21 AM, jmccr8 said:

 

Loved this scene.  Great way of illustrating what mockery is as opposed to an insult to the intellect.  Mock me and my virtue is in the same ballpark at the realisation that the spectrum of impatience as a virtue is far more elucidating if whoever translated it had fathomed the complexity and meaningful semantics of the language from whence it fall.

[8th_wall]

On 4/20/2022 at 5:17 AM, jmccr8 said:

Hi Psi

Time is a manmade construct that does not exist in nature and is used as a tool by it's creators.

Hey jmccr8 good to see you're keeping well my fellow friend and g, miss you guys b, ever since I illustrated why free speech is free, so the reputation destruction of evil, ignorant and knowledgeable, will burn itself out, for evil exists only momentarily, driven by the SI unit plus 1 from the 1*10^-44 Planck unit as time is derived spatially.  It's simply 1 spatial iterative unit NOT localised, but general, special for the observer, and therewith in the reason for the quantum collapse, time given, enough, for the vanderwaals force to enact its action, of which almost no knowledge exists from which many experiments are derivable!

[8th_wall]

On 4/26/2022 at 5:17 AM, Desertrat56 said:

@PsiSeeker Time is not real.

Time is virtual, of course.  There is only 3 real dimensions.  1 of them is encapsulated in the remaining 6D of string theory where space-time is 4D, of course.

[Sojo]

I kind of understand why some folks think time is just a construct with no other self-existence, and is just a tool to help explain motion and change. However, it has been scientifically proven that things travelling at high speed, and events nearer high gravitational masses do age more slowly, or appear that time is passing more slowly than events happening elsewhere not in those same conditions. Something must be happening either with time itself or something else not yet explained.

Just my thoughts,

Sojo

[Abramelin]

On 4/21/2022 at 5:50 AM, Mr Walker said:

However time also exists, like everything else which is real, outside of human perception.

And how would you know that? You know, when "outside of human perception"?

[Golden Duck]

Time is precious ...

 

[openozy]

13 hours ago, PsiSeeker said:

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant, complete solution to the sound in the woods notion of existence without construal, contrived, luster, or name, the dark unicerset yawning" - Haunter of the Dark by Music Artist Adario.  YouTube it, "I have seen the dark universe yawning, where the black planets roll, without luster, or Knowledge, or name: the Haunter of the Dark."

Crikey

[lightly]

What time is it?   … anyway, I reckon time is just a measurement..of motion/energy ?  The duration of?    We tick it off in our measurements of seconds,minutes,hours,days,weeks,months,years.  ?    
            ..as far as Everything being a construct of our mind…?  I dunno about that.. i can differentiate between what is IN my mind.. (being created by my mind)..  and the reality of what lies outside of my mind and is PERCEIVED by my mind.    I can lay my hand on the couch right now…and understand perfectly that the couch is not a construct of my mind.. it is a construct of physical reality…being perceived/experienced in my mind.   (through the senses of sight and touch).     

Edited May 9, 2022 by lightly

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

I feel like I got caught in the Twilight Zone 

[quiXilver]

How long is a moment?

 

How could we determine when 'a moment' begins?

And how will we ever describe when, or how a moment comes to an end and separates itself from the flow of reality?

[Grim Reaper 6]

On 5/8/2022 at 4:02 AM, PsiSeeker said:

Thank you so much for the hollogram education.  Thank goodness for the formality of space time or we will not be able to explain how dimensions works.  To say time doesn't exist is absolutely correct for it is only the 4th dimension.  Spacetime forms 10 dimensions where only 2, space-time, and special relativity, you, objectively, are real!

Time ( Space Time ) began at the moment the singularity that created our Universe occurred and it will continue as long as our Universe exists. So time began approximately 13.8 billion years ago and the clock keeps ticking, using this unit of measurement is the only method that truly expresses time, unfortunately the human race doesn’t use it!

Space Time expressed by equation 

[quiXilver]

16 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Time ( Space Time ) began at the moment the singularity that created our Universe occurred and it will continue as long as our Universe exists. So time began approximately 13.8 billion years ago and the clock keeps ticking, using this unit of measurement is the only method that truly expresses time, unfortunately the human race doesn’t use it!

Space Time expressed by equation 

That's a bunch of human projected abstraction mate.  Mentation stuff.  A method of explaining how we perceive, but our perceptual modeling process is a tiny spec and not indicative of the true nature of reality.  Only our interpreted aproximation from our limited process.

No more than a story, to the rest of the universe at least, but it seems to comfort some as an 'answer' of sorts, even though it's not an answer or an understanding, just a description.  And describing something, is not understanding it. 

cheers

[+joc]

23 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Time ( Space Time ) began at the moment the singularity that created our Universe occurred and it will continue as long as our Universe exists. So time began approximately 13.8 billion years ago and the clock keeps ticking, using this unit of measurement is the only method that truly expresses time, unfortunately the human race doesn’t use it!

Space Time expressed by equation 

 

The moment the singularity that created our Universe occurred.  I am trying to grasp what that even means.  Please don't attempt to explain it.

A singularity occurred and that created the Universe.  And there was no Time until the singularity occurred.  What was the moment before the singularity occurred?  A No Time moment?   

Sorry my friend but you are not talking in circles.  But maybe you should be.  If I walk through the door...suddenly...I am on the other side of the door. You cannot pretend or just wave away the fact that before I arrived on the other side of the door that I was in the room...I did, after all walk out of the room through the door.

The beginning is the end and the end is the beginning.

There is no 'singularity'.  There is only a recycling of what has always been.  Before the Universe came into it's present form on this side of the door, it was in a different form in the room, and when the door opened the Universe came into being all over again.

Eventually the entire Universe will be sucked into the exact same hole from which it came into being.

I am quite sure that if we could achieve the entire picture of the cosmos...we would see that the entire Universe is spinning, all of the trillions of galaxies spinning together as the entire Universe is sucked back into the drain where it will eventually be spewed forth again in the singularity you speak of.  There is no time.  The Universe is timeless.  It is infinite.  It has always been and will always be...in one form or the other. 

Thank you for listening!   

Edited May 11, 2022 by joc

[psyche101]

On 4/20/2022 at 4:11 AM, quiXilver said:

Time is an abstraction of the mind.  It is how the human mind correlates memory into patterns in regards to the awareness the shifting changes noted in the environment.

It is a human construct and does not exist apart from our musings and how we process perceptual modeling.

Seasonal cycles seem like time, due to the function of memory and change.  But human mechanical time is complete abstraction and illusory.

Measurements are. Hours minutes seconds. All human measurements of a real independent thing. 

Time changes throughout the universe. There's even a difference of time at the top of your head and at your feet. Negligible and undetectable by our senses but it's there. 

Time is an integral part of space. It exists in its own right. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

4 hours ago, joc said:

The moment the singularity that created our Universe occurred.  I am trying to grasp what that even means.  Please don't attempt to explain it.

A singularity occurred and that created the Universe.  And there was no Time until the singularity occurred.  What was the moment before the singularity occurred?  A No Time moment?   

Sorry my friend but you are not talking in circles.  But maybe you should be.  If I walk through the door...suddenly...I am on the other side of the door. You cannot pretend or just wave away the fact that before I arrived on the other side of the door that I was in the room...I did, after all walk out of the room through the door.

The beginning is the end and the end is the beginning.

There is no 'singularity'.  There is only a recycling of what has always been.  Before the Universe came into it's present form on this side of the door, it was in a different form in the room, and when the door opened the Universe came into being all over again.

Eventually the entire Universe will be sucked into the exact same hole from which it came into being.

I am quite sure that if we could achieve the entire picture of the cosmos...we would see that the entire Universe is spinning, all of the trillions of galaxies spinning together as the entire Universe is sucked back into the drain where it will eventually be spewed forth again in the singularity you speak of.  There is no time.  The Universe is timeless.  It is infinite.  It has always been and will always be...in one form or the other. 

Thank you for listening!   

Actually the Universe will not end in the manner you said that I bolder above. Eventually our Universe will become dark and very cold. This will occur when when all the need materials are used up creating new galaxies an and creating inter stellar nurseries where new stars are born. This is already becoming evident, the oldest galaxy in the Universe came into existence approximately 1.4 Billion years after the singularity that created our Universe occurred which makes the Galaxy approximately 12.4 Billion years old this Galaxy has been named GN-z11. 

This Galaxy is already showing signs that the Stars are showing their age and becoming dimmer. Eventually this will happen to all stars in the Universe and with the lack of replacement by new stars in billions of years the Universe will go dark. This is how the Universe will eventually end, not with bang only whimper as finally can no longer produce any light. Now as parts of the Universe wink out of existence the current expansion continues like you said it will be infinite as the process continues in new expanded areas.

 

[Occupational Hubris]

Time may not exist independently, but may be emergent from, say, gravitation. Causality, however, appears to be the law of the land. 

[+joc]

4 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Actually the Universe will not end in the manner you said that I bolder above. Eventually our Universe will become dark and very cold. This will occur when when all the need materials are used up creating new galaxies an and creating inter stellar nurseries where new stars are born. This is already becoming evident, the oldest galaxy in the Universe came into existence approximately 1.4 Billion years after the singularity that created our Universe occurred which makes the Galaxy approximately 12.4 Billion years old this Galaxy has been named GN-z11. 

This Galaxy is already showing signs that the Stars are showing their age and becoming dimmer. Eventually this will happen to all stars in the Universe and with the lack of replacement by new stars in billions of years the Universe will go dark. This is how the Universe will eventually end, not with bang only whimper as finally can no longer produce any light. Now as parts of the Universe wink out of existence the current expansion continues like you said it will be infinite as the process continues in new expanded areas.

 

Stars are showing their age....becoming dimmer.  Without realizing it, you are actually confirming what I said.  Stars don't 'show their age' by becoming 'dimmer'. They go Super Nova which is the exact opposite of that.  Then they have no more power to maintain orbit and are quickly sucked into the universal black hole...from which all things begin.  The Universal Black Hole is the beginning and the end...the Alpha and the Omega.  

The real problem with what you said about the Universe just growing old and cold is that it doesn't explain the beginning.  A Singularity created the Universe...some call that God...some call that Big Bang...the singularity is important because it is the beginning, but it is also the end. 

Space warps...so you can never see the end of the Universe...nor can one ever see the beginning...and yet...the Singularity could be happening continuously...as the Universe is sucked back into the Universal Black Hole, it's energy then becomes a new singularity for a brand new universe in a completely different dimension.  hmmm

[Grim Reaper 6]

28 minutes ago, joc said:

Stars are showing their age....becoming dimmer.  Without realizing it, you are actually confirming what I said.  Stars don't 'show their age' by becoming 'dimmer'. They go Super Nova which is the exact opposite of that.  Then they have no more power to maintain orbit and are quickly sucked into the universal black hole...from which all things begin.  The Universal Black Hole is the beginning and the end...the Alpha and the Omega.  

The real problem with what you said about the Universe just growing old and cold is that it doesn't explain the beginning.  A Singularity created the Universe...some call that God...some call that Big Bang...the singularity is important because it is the beginning, but it is also the end. 

Space warps...so you can never see the end of the Universe...nor can one ever see the beginning...and yet...the Singularity could be happening continuously...as the Universe is sucked back into the Universal Black Hole, it's energy then becomes a new singularity for a brand new universe in a completely different dimension.  hmmm

You are partly mistaken about Stars, not all Stars end in a Supernova as explained below:

Although stars are non-living, they undergo a life cycle similar to plants and animals. Depending on the mass of the star, there are two possible outcomes. Low- and medium- mass stars burn cool and last for billions of years. These stars end when they gradually shed off their outermost layers. For stars much larger and hotter than our Sun, the ending will be a spectacular explosion called a supernova.
All stars start in a large cloud of dust and gas called a nebula. Gravity can pull some of the gas and dust in a nebula together, forming a proto-star. A star is born when the gas and dust from a nebula become so hot and dense that hydrogen atoms are smashed together to form helium.

This process, called nuclear fusion, occurs in every star and produces energy. It is now known as a main sequence star.
When a main sequence star begins to run out of hydrogen fuel, the star becomes a red giant or a red supergiant. After a low- or medium-mass star has become a red giant, the outer parts grow bigger and drift into space, forming a cloud of gas called a planetary nebula. The core of the star that is left behind cools and becomes a white dwarf. The white dwarf eventually runs out of fuel and dies as a black dwarf.
A high-mass star, on the other hand, can suddenly explode. This violent explosion is called a supernova. After the star explodes, some of the materials are left behind.

This material may form a neutron star or a black hole. A neutron star is an extremely dense remnant of a star’s core and is usually less than 20 miles in diameter. However, the most massive stars become black holes when they die. After a high-mass star explodes, a large amount of matter may collapse inward, forming a black hole. The gravity of a black hole is so strong that matter is pulled inward, packing more into a smaller and smaller space. Eventually, the gravity becomes so strong that nothing can escape, not even light.

https://www.sccboe.org/cms/lib/AL50000450/Centricity/Domain/22/3 Article and Questions.pd

As far as your idea that a Universal Black Hole will swallow the Universe this is just not possible. However, what is possible is that our Universe may have been from a singularity from a dying Black Hole, you see Black Holes dying like everything else in the Universe once they have devoured all the matter around them they begin to die.

 How black holes die

As long as there is material around [to eat], the black hole can keep resetting its clock,” Doeleman says. Eventually, as the universe ages, the material around a black hole will run out and its doomsday clock will start ticking. As a black hole evaporates, it slowly shrinks and, as it loses mass, the rate of particles escaping also increases until all the remaining energy escapes at once. In the final tenth of a second of a black hole’s life, “you will have a huge flash of light and energy,” Natarajan says. “It’s almost like a million nuclear fusion bombs going off in a very tiny region of space.” By Earth’s standards, that’s a lot, significantly more than the total nuclear arsenal of all nations. In astronomical terms, not so much. The most powerful supernova yet recorded (ASSASN-15lh) was 22 trillion times more explosive than a black hole will be in its final moments.

https://astronomy.com/magazine/news/2021/02/the-beginning-to-the-end-of-the-universe-how-black-holes-die

 

9. If nothing can escape from a black hole, then won't the whole universe eventually be swallowed up?

The universe is a big place. In particular, the size of a region where a particular black hole has significant gravitational influence is quite limited compared to the size of a galaxy. This applies even to supermassive black holes like the one found in the middle of the Milky Way. This black hole has probably already "eaten" most or all of the stars that formed nearby, and stars further out are mostly safe from being pulled in. Since this black hole already weighs a few million times the mass of the Sun, there will only be small increases in its mass if it swallows a few more Sun-like stars. There is no danger of the Earth (located 26,000 light years away from the Milky Way's black hole) being pulled in. Future galaxy collisions will cause black holes to grow in size, for example by merging of two black holes. But collisions won't happen indefinitely because the universe is big and because it's expanding, and so it's very unlikely that any sort of black hole runaway effect will occur.

https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/1068/10-questions-you-might-have-about-black-holes/

Peace my friend 

[+joc]

14 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

You are partly mistaken about Stars, not all Stars end in a Supernova as explained below:

Although stars are non-living, they undergo a life cycle similar to plants and animals. Depending on the mass of the star, there are two possible outcomes. Low- and medium- mass stars burn cool and last for billions of years. These stars end when they gradually shed off their outermost layers. For stars much larger and hotter than our Sun, the ending will be a spectacular explosion called a supernova.
All stars start in a large cloud of dust and gas called a nebula. Gravity can pull some of the gas and dust in a nebula together, forming a proto-star. A star is born when the gas and dust from a nebula become so hot and dense that hydrogen atoms are smashed together to form helium.

This process, called nuclear fusion, occurs in every star and produces energy. It is now known as a main sequence star.
When a main sequence star begins to run out of hydrogen fuel, the star becomes a red giant or a red supergiant. After a low- or medium-mass star has become a red giant, the outer parts grow bigger and drift into space, forming a cloud of gas called a planetary nebula. The core of the star that is left behind cools and becomes a white dwarf. The white dwarf eventually runs out of fuel and dies as a black dwarf.
A high-mass star, on the other hand, can suddenly explode. This violent explosion is called a supernova. After the star explodes, some of the materials are left behind.

This material may form a neutron star or a black hole. A neutron star is an extremely dense remnant of a star’s core and is usually less than 20 miles in diameter. However, the most massive stars become black holes when they die. After a high-mass star explodes, a large amount of matter may collapse inward, forming a black hole. The gravity of a black hole is so strong that matter is pulled inward, packing more into a smaller and smaller space. Eventually, the gravity becomes so strong that nothing can escape, not even light.

https://www.sccboe.org/cms/lib/AL50000450/Centricity/Domain/22/3 Article and Questions.pd

As far as your idea that a Universal Black Hole will swallow the Universe this is just not possible. However, what is possible is that our Universe may have been from a singularity from a dying Black Hole, you see Black Holes dying like everything else in the Universe once they have devoured all the matter around them they begin to die.

 How black holes die

As long as there is material around [to eat], the black hole can keep resetting its clock,” Doeleman says. Eventually, as the universe ages, the material around a black hole will run out and its doomsday clock will start ticking. As a black hole evaporates, it slowly shrinks and, as it loses mass, the rate of particles escaping also increases until all the remaining energy escapes at once. In the final tenth of a second of a black hole’s life, “you will have a huge flash of light and energy,” Natarajan says. “It’s almost like a million nuclear fusion bombs going off in a very tiny region of space.” By Earth’s standards, that’s a lot, significantly more than the total nuclear arsenal of all nations. In astronomical terms, not so much. The most powerful supernova yet recorded (ASSASN-15lh) was 22 trillion times more explosive than a black hole will be in its final moments.

https://astronomy.com/magazine/news/2021/02/the-beginning-to-the-end-of-the-universe-how-black-holes-die

 

9. If nothing can escape from a black hole, then won't the whole universe eventually be swallowed up?

The universe is a big place. In particular, the size of a region where a particular black hole has significant gravitational influence is quite limited compared to the size of a galaxy. This applies even to supermassive black holes like the one found in the middle of the Milky Way. This black hole has probably already "eaten" most or all of the stars that formed nearby, and stars further out are mostly safe from being pulled in. Since this black hole already weighs a few million times the mass of the Sun, there will only be small increases in its mass if it swallows a few more Sun-like stars. There is no danger of the Earth (located 26,000 light years away from the Milky Way's black hole) being pulled in. Future galaxy collisions will cause black holes to grow in size, for example by merging of two black holes. But collisions won't happen indefinitely because the universe is big and because it's expanding, and so it's very unlikely that any sort of black hole runaway effect will occur.

https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/1068/10-questions-you-might-have-about-black-holes/

Peace my friend 

All very interesting.  Everything I stated is not my belief...I have none...it is not my knowing.  It is just me thinking out loud.

...continuing that outloud thought process...

We talk about the expanding Universe.  What happens when it stops expanding?  what happens to Space?  

All I think really is that the beginning is the end and the end is the beginning...have no idea how that happens...

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, joc said:

All very interesting.  Everything I stated is not my belief...I have none...it is not my knowing.  It is just me thinking out loud.

...continuing that outloud thought process...

We talk about the expanding Universe.  What happens when it stops expanding?  what happens to Space?  

All I think really is that the beginning is the end and the end is the beginning...have no idea how that happens...

Well there are two forms of demise that could end our Universe the Big Crunch or the Big Freeze.

The Big Crunch.

If the Universe lost momentum eventually it would eventually begin to collapse back in upon itself and compress all the matter that was created by the Universal creation. At some point this compression would become so tightly compressed there would be a massive explosion, would this start the process all over again, I don’t know.

The Big Freeze.

Around the year 2000, a discover was made that at first confused the astrophysics community the Universal expansion was not slowing down, it was actually speeding up and they didn’t understand why. It turned out this was occurring because of an unknown form of energy in the Universe that was named Dark Energy. This energy source turned out to be feeding the continued Universal Expansion and it became obvious that the Big Crunch was not how our Universe would end. Because of this discovery it is now excepted scientific theory that the Universe will expand indefinitely.

Eventually the big freeze will be the end of the known Universe we can see today, but do to the indefinite expansion as the portion of our viewable Universe freezes new portions of the will be created indefinitely.

[+joc]

7 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Well there are two forms of demise that could end our Universe the Big Crunch or the Big Freeze.

The Big Crunch.

If the Universe lost momentum eventually it would eventually begin to collapse back in upon itself and compress all the matter that was created by the Universal creation. At some point this compression would become so tightly compressed there would be a massive explosion, would this start the process all over again, I don’t know.

The Big Freeze.

Around the year 2000, a discover was made that at first confused the astrophysics community the Universal expansion was not slowing down, it was actually speeding up and they didn’t understand why. It turned out this was occurring because of an unknown form of energy in the Universe that was named Dark Energy. This energy source turned out to be feeding the continued Universal Expansion and it became obvious that the Big Crunch was not how our Universe would end. Because of this discovery it is now excepted scientific theory that the Universe will expand indefinitely.

Eventually the big freeze will be the end of the known Universe we can see today, but do to the indefinite expansion as the portion of our viewable Universe freezes new portions of the will be created indefinitely.

perhaps as dark matter is   s t r e t c h e d   it begins to expand ...and everything else with it...?

[lightly]

There is said to be a black hole at the center of our galaxy..at the center of it’s mass.  It’s also said that there is a singularity at the center of every black hole.  (trillions of them in our universe?)   It’s said that not even light can escape from a black hole .  
         It’s said  ‘Time’ passes faster with increased speed …what happens to time at the speed of light??  ( I wonder if ‘it’ stops)      It’s said that time passes faster the farther away from the center of a gravitational mass.     Is ‘time’ actually passing faster at the top of my head than at my feet?…or is it simply that my feet have a shorter orbit around the earth’s center of mass?    Like this>  o . . .compared to this> O.    Both orbits ,of slightly varying distance, are completed in the same amount of ‘time’.    (one revolution of the earth). . Just wondering… I love this topic and everyone’s input.

Edited May 12, 2022 by lightly

[Coil]

12 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Well there are two forms of demise that could end our Universe the Big Crunch or the Big Freeze.

The Big Crunch.

The Big Freeze.

Eventually the big freeze will be the end of the known Universe we can see today, but do to the indefinite expansion as the portion of our viewable Universe freezes new portions of the will be created indefinitely.

At first, scientists believed that the universe would begin to shrink, and now they believe in a big freeze?

All these are theories that over time are replaced by new theories, as scientists lack complete information about the universe and what it is developing towards.

Our universe in the future will transform into a non-physical, divine state when it is freed from the dragon of Darkness squeezing the universe in its paws. And then it will rush to God and take its place among the same eternal universes.

Why does God need to create the physical universe if he still aspires to himself anyway? This is necessary in order to manifest the perfection of God even in matter and change it into a true and eternal consciousness-matter and a person into a true and perfect God-being.