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1 hour ago, Golden Duck said:

It's a reasonable question.

Here's the thing, there's no centre of the Universe.

Everywhere is expanding or moving away from everything else at the same same rate no matter where you are. 

If there's no centre, how can there be an edge?

There must be a center...not the 'center' but the 'focal point'.  If there was a Big Bang...then the Big Bang epicenter if you will  I would think, would be precisely why everything is moving away from everything else at the same rate.  Please correct me where I am wrong here but...as per my example of an explosion in Space/Time...the Big Bang had no Space/Time...no 'explosion' per say.  Nonetheless, there was an occurrence which created an incredible amount of heat, no doubt due to the unleashing of an almost infinite amount of energy...and the result was the creation of Space/Time/Matter. 

I'm good with all that so far...makes sense in my little brain...however; what isn't really making any sense is Entropy...and the End of the Universe.  If there is no edge (and quite frankly I don't see how there could be)  then there is no friction...no energy loss...ever...ever...ever...and so the universe just keeps on expanding as it has for eons because there is nothing to stop it.  

How can something that has no edge...no friction...experience Entropy?  Splain me that one and I'll buy you a Soda Pop! ^_^

...yeah...I'll definitely buy him a soda pop...and I'm guessing he has a pretty good explanation! 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, joc said:

There must be a center...not the 'center' but the 'focal point'.  If there was a Big Bang...then the Big Bang epicenter if you will  I would think, would be precisely why everything is moving away from everything else at the same rate.  Please correct me where I am wrong here but...as per my example of an explosion in Space/Time...the Big Bang had no Space/Time...no 'explosion' per say.  Nonetheless, there was an occurrence which created an incredible amount of heat, no doubt due to the unleashing of an almost infinite amount of energy...and the result was the creation of Space/Time/Matter. 

I'm good with all that so far...makes sense in my little brain...however; what isn't really making any sense is Entropy...and the End of the Universe.  If there is no edge (and quite frankly I don't see how there could be)  then there is no friction...no energy loss...ever...ever...ever...and so the universe just keeps on expanding as it has for eons because there is nothing to stop it.  

How can something that has no edge...no friction...experience Entropy?  Splain me that one and I'll buy you a Soda Pop! ^_^

...yeah...I'll definitely buy him a soda pop...and I'm guessing he has a pretty good explanation! 

What you say is reasonable, in the same way Ptolemy's heliocentric model was reasonable.  Ptolemy stood on the ground and all he could observe was planets moving around him.

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If the Big Bang were an ordinary explosion in an already existing space, we would be able to look out and see the expanding edge of the explosion with empty space beyond.  Instead, we see back towards the Big Bang itself and detect a faint background glow from the hot primordial gases of the early universe.  This "cosmic microwave background radiation" is uniform in all directions.  This tells us that it is not matter that is expanding outwards from a point, but rather it is space itself that expands evenly.

It is important to stress that other observations support the view that there is no centre to the universe, at least insofar as observations can reach.  The fact that the universe is expanding uniformly would not rule out the possibility that there is some denser, hotter place that might be called the centre, but careful studies of the distribution and motion of galaxies confirm that it is homogeneous on the largest scales we can see, with no sign of a special point to call the centre.

I'm guessing you haven't heard of the balloon analogy.  It's been for around 90 years to explain how the universe expands.  It pop's up a lot in documentaries.

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A good way to help visualise the expanding universe is to compare space with the surface of an expanding balloon.  This analogy was used by Arthur Eddington as early as 1933 in his book The Expanding Universe.  It was also used by Fred Hoyle in the 1960 edition of his popular book The Nature of the Universe.  Hoyle wrote "My non-mathematical friends often tell me that they find it difficult to picture this expansion.  Short of using a lot of mathematics I cannot do better than use the analogy of a balloon with a large number of dots marked on its surface.  If the balloon is blown up the distances between the dots increase in the same way as the distances between the galaxies."

The balloon analogy is very good but needs to be understood properly—otherwise it can cause more confusion.  As Hoyle said, "There are several important respects in which it is definitely misleading."  It is important to appreciate that three-dimensional space is to be compared with the two-dimensional surface of the balloon.  The surface is homogeneous with no point that should be picked out as the centre.  The centre of the balloon itself is not on the surface, and should not be thought of as the centre of the universe.  If it helps, you can think of the radial direction in the balloon as time.  This was what Hoyle suggested, but it can also be confusing.  It is better to regard points off the surface as not being part of the universe at all.  As Gauss discovered at the beginning of the 19th century, properties of space such as curvature can be described in terms of intrinsic quantities that can be measured without needing to think about what it is curving in.  So space can be curved without there being any other dimensions "outside".  Gauss even tried to determine the curvature of space by measuring the angles of a large triangle between three hill tops.

When thinking about the balloon analogy you must remember that. . .

  • The 2-dimensional surface of the balloon is analogous to the 3 dimensions of space.
  • The 3-dimensional space in which the balloon is embedded is not analogous to any higher dimensional physical space.
  • The centre of the balloon does not correspond to anything physical.
  • The universe may be finite in size and growing like the surface of an expanding balloon, but it could also be infinite.
  • Galaxies move apart like points on the expanding balloon, but the galaxies themselves do not expand because they are gravitationally bound.

Here's the clue that leads me in a direction where I'd have read up on.

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In 1929 Edwin Hubble announced that he had measured the speed of galaxies at different distances from us, and had discovered that the farther they were, the faster they were receding.  This might suggest that we are at the centre of the expanding universe, but in fact if the universe is expanding uniformly according to Hubble's law, then it will appear to do so from any vantage point.

https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/GR/centre.html

PS.  You can keep your soda pop.  You could buy me a beer; but, then I'd buy you a beer, so you'd still owe me a beer.

Edited by Golden Duck
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7 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

PS.  You can keep your soda pop.  You could buy me a beer; but, then I'd buy you a beer, so you'd still owe me a beer.

so what you are really saying then is that we would both get really drunk until we passed out...and I would still owe you a beer! 

So what caused the Big Bang? it's a rhetorical question  

The Singularity I get.  But it still begs the question...

Why is it that the answer always begs the question?

 

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The universe is the biggest mystery in the universe.   (lighty’s law)

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21 hours ago, lightly said:

I think ,maybe, the universe is expanding into/within itself. 

What is space for us is a formless consciousness penetrating into everything, we simply cannot feel it.And since the Absolute is infinite, all processes really take place inside it, we just have an area allocated for our universe.

When the Solar System is created, the gods begin to rotate and compress the cold gas, and from rapid rotation it turns into fire, and then hot clots move away from it, which in the future become planets. So the gas is compressed and then expanded into a planetary system. Then the planets cool down and more shrink and materialize more. And when the Sun burns out, it expands again and turns into a Supernova with the planets. This is the completion of the development of the planetary system and a white dwarf remains from the Sun as a remnant of smoldering ash from combustion. So the process of compression and expansion constantly alternates.

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5 hours ago, joc said:

 

So what caused the Big Bang? it's a rhetorical question  

The Singularity I get.  But it still begs the question...

Why is it that the answer always begs the question?

 

 

In Non-Being there is a certain stirring, a certain desire and yearning for life, so he yawns and manifests matter to form the universe. This Non-Being is a dark and unconscious part of God that wants to wake up and live.

It may also be that God strikes this Nothingness, it trembles and the first reaction is a powerful Sound, which in the Bible is called the Word. And then the cosmic gods come into play.

The disadvantage of scientists is that they do not know that first there is a conscious effort towards life and then the response of matter. Imagine that you came to a car assembly plant but you don’t see people, a designer, robots, and you only see the connection of parts into a whole car. And for you, the whole process of metal smelting and the appearance of a car will be an inexplicable miracle and an amazing coincidence, but this is a conscious process creativity.

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Posted (edited)

In 1929 Edwin Hubble announced that he had measured the speed of galaxies at different distances from us, and had discovered that the farther they were, the faster they were receding.  This might suggest that we are at the centre of the expanding universe, but in fact if the universe is expanding  uniformly  according to Hubble's law, then it will appear to do so from any vantage point.
                         . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  .

        then it,    (expansion)  Is not accelerating.    It appears that way,  because,  the farther an object is from ‘here’ the more expanding space is between us …and it.    O zooom O        O zooooooooooooooooooooom O   Closer = more gravitational attraction …  which is exactly why our solar system is bound together and our moon stays in orbit around the earth IN expanding space…and the Andromeda galaxy and our Milky Way (IN expanding space) are being pulled together, rather than apart, and at some point will merge.

https://earthsky.org/space/earths-night-sky-milky-way-andromeda-merge/

       While, Farther away = less gravitational attraction (drag) allowing objects to become farther apart..IN expanding space.   Are the   increasing distances    caused more by objects MOVING ?    Or by Expansion?    %?

      Maybe nothing moved away in the ‘big bang’ … instead , space GREW ..which allowed for cooling ,which allowed atomic structure & matter to form..which has Mass, and therefore Gravity.

It was not an explosion…it IS an inflation/expansion.  (of Energy)   ????    (I’m not sure which word is more correct)

 

 

Edited by lightly
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Posted (edited)

I just read that the newest galaxy discovered thus far is about 500 million years old..  (our Milky Way galaxy is around 13.6 billion years old?  …nearly as old as the universe!  (13.8 billion years young;)   ( that doesn’t sound quite right…but that’s what ‘they’ say.)

….and the youngest planet discovered so far is only about 5 to 10 million years old.  So, the creation of the universe isn’t something that happened once upon a time… it IS something that is still happening…an ongoing process.    ??

Edited by lightly
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Coil said:

 

In Non-Being there is a certain stirring, a certain desire and yearning for life, so he yawns and manifests matter to form the universe. This Non-Being is a dark and unconscious part of God that wants to wake up and live.

It may also be that God strikes this Nothingness, it trembles and the first reaction is a powerful Sound, which in the Bible is called the Word. And then the cosmic gods come into play.

The disadvantage of scientists is that they do not know that first there is a conscious effort towards life and then the response of matter. Imagine that you came to a car assembly plant but you don’t see people, a designer, robots, and you only see the connection of parts into a whole car. And for you, the whole process of metal smelting and the appearance of a car will be an inexplicable miracle and an amazing coincidence, but this is a conscious process creativity.

Hey@Coil  Very Cool man!   Perhaps you could book yourself a night at a Beat Club and shlouph your Non Thought out into the Beat Stream Consciousness of the late-night 1950s crowd.  Don't forget to snap your fingers...and remember to turn your hand palm down when you snap because that is what the beat crowd likes to see...it means you really are digging that crazy scene. ...and trust me octogenarians dig that whole crazy beat scene...a lot! 

I would recommend reciting it    s  l  o  w  l  y   and dramatically, in a low, cool voice...but enunciate and do so a bit louder than normal because most are probably somewhat deaf...like this:

 In non -being     pause   there is a certain  arrogant nose sniff  stirring   pause  and yearning for   pause Life  snap pause it trembles drumroll and the first reaction is a powerful Sound pause snap pause which is...The Word. snap

Dude!  I might want to record that if you don't mind...

Edit:  I almost forgot man...you need to end it with these words...Dig it! 

Edited by joc
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On 5/10/2022 at 2:14 AM, lightly said:

What time is it?   … anyway, I reckon time is just a measurement..of motion/energy ?  The duration of?    We tick it off in our measurements of seconds,minutes,hours,days,weeks,months,years.  ?    
            ..as far as Everything being a construct of our mind…?  I dunno about that.. i can differentiate between what is IN my mind.. (being created by my mind)..  and the reality of what lies outside of my mind and is PERCEIVED by my mind.    I can lay my hand on the couch right now…and understand perfectly that the couch is not a construct of my mind.. it is a construct of physical reality…being perceived/experienced in my mind.   (through the senses of sight and touch).     :passifier:

I didn't read it all B, feel W=dt.

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On 5/9/2022 at 10:06 AM, Golden Duck said:

Time is precious ...

 

Lost interest at time particles, about to have a ;

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On 5/10/2022 at 8:57 AM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I feel like I got caught in the Twilight Zone 

twilight zone Wallpaper and Background Image | 2560x1024

What in the lord mother of crikey mate.

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On 5/10/2022 at 11:27 AM, quiXilver said:

How long is a moment?

 

How could we determine when 'a moment' begins?

And how will we ever describe when, or how a moment comes to an end and separates itself from the flow of reality?

C'mon man pull it back from the infinity dives and **** there are young kids that read this man.  Keep it, you know, tangible.  The Science is there for all to see.

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On 5/10/2022 at 12:57 PM, Manwon Lender said:

Time ( Space Time ) began at the moment the singularity that created our Universe occurred and it will continue as long as our Universe exists. So time began approximately 13.8 billion years ago and the clock keeps ticking, using this unit of measurement is the only method that truly expresses time, unfortunately the human race doesn’t use it!:yes:

Space Time expressed by equation 

34FBBB5D-7163-4E28-BA06-707033945812.jpeg.ab86de65d1a765492ba4cec44f325c51.jpeg

Yeah b this is general relativity isn't it?  /Squints.

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On 5/11/2022 at 5:29 AM, quiXilver said:

That's a bunch of human projected abstraction mate.  Mentation stuff.  A method of explaining how we perceive, but our perceptual modeling process is a tiny spec and not indicative of the true nature of reality.  Only our interpreted aproximation from our limited process.

No more than a story, to the rest of the universe at least, but it seems to comfort some as an 'answer' of sorts, even though it's not an answer or an understanding, just a description.  And describing something, is not understanding it. 

cheers

From the bottom b it's like, you're either it or you're not, and you're just it, but not.  Think of dimensions as spatial cinsteucte and imagine there are 8 of them as concentric layers outward from a local or global asymptote in a three dimensional x y z Cartesian graph.  B, I, I haven't, uhh...  Cruised straight 4D, bro it's just limbo b isn't it but?  I'm pretty deep here.

Haha!  Anytime jcm88r

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On 5/16/2022 at 12:47 PM, joc said:

There must be a center...not the 'center' but the 'focal point'.  If there was a Big Bang...then the Big Bang epicenter if you will  I would think, would be precisely why everything is moving away from everything else at the same rate.  Please correct me where I am wrong here but...as per my example of an explosion in Space/Time...the Big Bang had no Space/Time...no 'explosion' per say.  Nonetheless, there was an occurrence which created an incredible amount of heat, no doubt due to the unleashing of an almost infinite amount of energy...and the result was the creation of Space/Time/Matter. 

I'm good with all that so far...makes sense in my little brain...however; what isn't really making any sense is Entropy...and the End of the Universe.  If there is no edge (and quite frankly I don't see how there could be)  then there is no friction...no energy loss...ever...ever...ever...and so the universe just keeps on expanding as it has for eons because there is nothing to stop it.  

How can something that has no edge...no friction...experience Entropy?  Splain me that one and I'll buy you a Soda Pop! ^_^

...yeah...I'll definitely buy him a soda pop...and I'm guessing he has a pretty good explanation! 

Nice one...  My instinct suggests that time is not a quantum mechanics affected unitatasssehatever.  Superconductivity.  You want accuracy at local limits not the divergent ones, they're just easy b.

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On 5/13/2022 at 4:33 AM, Manwon Lender said:

Basically Dark Energy and Gravity are having a Cosmic Tug of War. Below is a far better Explanation of this phenomenon than I am able to give.

Our Expanding Universe: Delving into Dark Energy: https://www.energy.gov/science/articles/our-expanding-universe-delving-dark-energy

 

Yes, it must be mass otherwise everything around it would be matter!

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On 5/13/2022 at 5:57 AM, lightly said:

 I think the most difficult question is..what causes expansion (if expansion is the reality).  I guess they are saying that ‘dark energy’ pushes things apart..sort of an anti gravity?   ..since the expansion of space seems to be agreed on…ok.   So, I think what is happening is…:passifier: . . .   Expansion of space is not accelerating.  Space does not expand at it’s outer ‘edges’ …there are no edges.   Space expands at every point EVERYWHERE. …that is what makes it look like acceleration..but it’s simply a Cumulative Effect.    Because,  the more space expands the more space there is to expand !     and  ‘Gravity’ works just fine…so, even though ALL space between and WITHIN things is expanding ..things like our solar system and the atoms and molecules of our very bodies! …these things are held together by local forces, like ‘gravity’ and electromagnetism.         Your welcome ..Just leave tips in the jar.  :lol:

All yours, three, space, dimensions.  Name em off one by one and ;

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On 5/11/2022 at 12:51 PM, joc said:

The moment the singularity that created our Universe occurred.  I am trying to grasp what that even means.  Please don't attempt to explain it.

A singularity occurred and that created the Universe.  And there was no Time until the singularity occurred.  What was the moment before the singularity occurred?  A No Time moment?   

Sorry my friend but you are not talking in circles.  But maybe you should be.  If I walk through the door...suddenly...I am on the other side of the door. You cannot pretend or just wave away the fact that before I arrived on the other side of the door that I was in the room...I did, after all walk out of the room through the door.

The beginning is the end and the end is the beginning.

There is no 'singularity'.  There is only a recycling of what has always been.  Before the Universe came into it's present form on this side of the door, it was in a different form in the room, and when the door opened the Universe came into being all over again.

Eventually the entire Universe will be sucked into the exact same hole from which it came into being.

I am quite sure that if we could achieve the entire picture of the cosmos...we would see that the entire Universe is spinning, all of the trillions of galaxies spinning together as the entire Universe is sucked back into the drain where it will eventually be spewed forth again in the singularity you speak of.  There is no time.  The Universe is timeless.  It is infinite.  It has always been and will always be...in one form or the other. 

Thank you for listening!   :)

Jesus Christ, I flew through that at light mate Jesus me.

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Psi, our virtual agent, finds phi, our reality subsystem, or some such, through the process of volition and time, or something of this effect, and there within, Knowledge.  Time now..;

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Time doesn't exist.

 

So just enjoy the moment. ;)

Be alive.

 

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On 4/20/2022 at 6:03 AM, and then said:

 

Naw depression is.  Facet and phase of grief.  4 or 5 5 ;

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2 hours ago, LightAngel said:

Time doesn't exist.

 

So just enjoy the moment. ;)

Be alive.

 

:wub:

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3 hours ago, PsiSeeker said:

C'mon man pull it back from the infinity dives and **** there are young kids that read this man.  Keep it, you know, tangible.  The Science is there for all to see.

Think of the Children! 

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