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# Time

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8 hours ago, MGB said:

Time is simply a measurement. If there was no life anywhere throughout all eternity, planets would still be rotating around their stars, there would however be no one to measure time.

Inconceivable !*

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On 5/10/2022 at 12:57 PM, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Time ( Space Time ) began at the moment the singularity that created our Universe occurred and it will continue as long as our Universe exists. So time began approximately 13.8 billion years ago and the clock keeps ticking, using this unit of measurement is the only method that truly expresses time, unfortunately the human race doesn’t use it!

Space Time expressed by equation

This assumes time is circular.  I could get t - x = e^0+bi, t = e^0+bi + x = t.  Is e^i + x = t(x). We aren't working in the virtual domain so we know it's in radians expressed as e^((180 (pi radians) - i^0)) for T = Work (Newtons, force, over some vector NOT a frame of inertia). So distance divided by Work equals time.  For the imperial system, t = e^179 since 0 doesn't exist in the imperial system.  Only in metric.  There wouldn't be two theories of relativity, special and general, if it wasn't for the mechanical truths of the imperial system.  And more power to it, using orders of magnitude of 10 we quickly run into absurdities such as "the planet Earth is more spherical than a spherical ball of steel."  Thing is, time is relative.  Some dunces quip that everything is relative.  No it's not, time is.

sin^2(x) - cos^2(x) = t^2 - x^2 but time isn't circular!  It's not a linear quantity!  It's the area denoted by pir^2 where r is 1.  So we have, in radians, e^180 = t knowing that t' = t since the rate of change of time is itself!  We are operating in imperial, however, where 0 doesn't exist.  When the timer starts it starts at 1, not 0 the 1, but rather, immediately 1 and then onwards, so we adjust the quantity for America, our Lords, to e^179=t or Work/displacement is denoted by e^x for its usefulness where x = 179 since the rate of change of e^x is e^x!  Why 179?  Because everything can be calculated as a percentage of 1 in radians as displacement longitudenal and latitudenal by the divisor 3.  This is important when calculating approximations and knowing the length of your stride with an optimal cadence of 179.  179 because it's impossible to count precisely 1/3 of a second.  So we count 32% of the second for imperial and then 34% and 34% to have a useful real world feel for timing all the way down to 1 Planck second, once more, because 0 doesn't exist in imperial.  There's no such thing as 0 Planck seconds or 0 Kelvin in imperialism, American Empiricism.  It's extremely important that America doesn't go metric otherwise we lose the pragmatic element of the quantity nature of number.

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On 8/27/2022 at 2:25 PM, MGB said:

Time is simply a measurement. If there was no life anywhere throughout all eternity, planets would still be rotating around their stars, there would however be no one to measure time.

But you are contradicting yourself!  This is the old notion regarding the nature of time.  Time IS relative.  Time isn't a measurement, strictly speaking.  Time isn't non existence.  Time isn't anything other than relative.  What does this mean?  It means that we have real world problems in Computer Science that uses parallel computation utilising more time than there is time to utilise!  Without breaking information transfer laws via the fact that nothing is faster than the speed of light, a rather slow speed in linear terms!

Anyway, let's take what you've said.  Assume there's a planet orbiting around a black hole.  Now assume there's another planet at the outer reaches of the universe locally speaking orbiting around the same black hole.  The planet that does more work, the one orbiting closer to the black hole, falling towards it, in actual fact (there is no "pull" from the Sun, otherwise you'd be able to run off the face of the Earth by accelerating at the square quantity from anything greater than 1, the "pull" of gravity is actually simply the collision of two bodies of space falling towards each other as an effect caused by local density.  Of course one isn't actually falling.  One just keeps crashing to the same surface since there is forces involved that form vectors rather than scalars.  This is why we know the universe had a beginning that is effectively a point otherwise things would simply collide and venture off at rift angels.  Thing is, collisions occurred while mass quantities were still accelerating.  Eventually the accelerated's potential force caused the force of electromagnetism, gravity, the weak and strong nuclear forces, love, or the van DER Waals force to cause interactions that formed true cycloid affect on mass quantities.  We see this from the linear process of the flow of electricity producing clockwise magnetic waves influencing particles that are conductive along vectors, which are cycloid.  The moment you have a curving mass quantity you have, also, an accelerating force.  The moment an accelerating force exists on a mass quantity (vis. quantity with "weight") you have force.  Denoted by N, for Newtons, from Isaac Newton.)

I'm tempted to reply to every "time is virtual" with...  NO...  Interpreting the ingenuity of Einstein: time is relative.  A theory, in the scope of its domain where its range is assumed to be indefinite, IS fact.  It's just a bloody shame it's the theory of special and general relativity.  A shame as well as incredibly bloody useful!

I think when it's quipped that time does not exist, where I understand that you can SEE what you're saying, what is meant is that the absolute lack of time does not exist. There is, in absolute truth, no such thing as 0 seconds.  When a timer starts it must always start at some quantity denoted by a 1, since at its absolute basis it is supported by mechanical engineering.

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I've heard somewhere that time + meth equals insanity.

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On 9/11/2022 at 3:34 PM, pallidin said:

I've heard somewhere that time + meth equals insanity.

I've heard that repeating the same thing over and over again equals insanity.

I've heard that people who talk to themselves are crazy.

I've heard that people seem to think the adjective "crazy" is pejorative.

As someone who is certified crazy: Schizoidal, too, Psychosis, Mania, Hypomania, Bipolar Depression, Hyperactive attention I can safely say that time plus meth does indeed equal insanity.  In actual fact if someone's sympathetic nervous system is firing all you do is keep giving them more meth, as you specifically quipped, and it makes it worse, way worse.  In actual fact the comedown from methylphenidate, the lazy prick who informed you of this knowledge, is anxiety.  Worse still, there's a rare chance that if you consume this magical mystery ADHD first line treatment medication, where ICE is legal in America, you know?  ICE?  In case of emergency?  Then you will experience sudden death.

Next time spell out what you mean and don't use anecdotal evidence looking for a flame war.  It's called ice, or if you have any balls call it methamphetamine.  There's no such thing as "meth".  It's coined "kiddy cocaine" by people who have suffered in abject turmoil, found the relief for their ailment, and sought psychiatric help swim, the OP, lets you know.

And whilst I could have taken you seriously and informed you on the actual effects and affects of both forms of methamphetamine and the psychological nature it has on time, I will.  Because I only just concluded that whilst knowledge is the only good doesn't automatically imply that all knowledge is good, that was precisely what was relayed in context of you did the reading correctly.  I'm trained in the benefit of the doubt, to give it, even if knowing better, so I'll put my vulgar language aside and share from empiricism.

Ice is an antidote for a condition called Akathesia.  One of the symptoms of Akathesia is the unbearable awareness of time.  I read that people commit suicide from that and if I didn't have speed and if I wasn't incarcerated involuntarily in a psychiatric hospital, where even there security measures wasn't enough for me to still manage to acquire crystal ice, with lorazepam on tap, with diazapam on tap, every 4 hours, if it wasn't for all the design I had at my disposal, and sharp observation...  I can't say.  All I know is that from the suffering I experienced from Akathesia I 100% understand why someone would kill themselves if they knew that's what was happening and find out they could be stuck like that for 2 mother ****ing years man :'(.

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22 minutes ago, PsiSeeker said:

I've heard that repeating the same thing over and over again equals insanity.

I've heard that people who talk to themselves are crazy.

I've heard that people seem to think the adjective "crazy" is pejorative.

As someone who is certified crazy: Schizoidal, too, Psychosis, Mania, Hypomania, Bipolar Depression, Hyperactive attention I can safely say that time plus meth does indeed equal insanity.  In actual fact if someone's sympathetic nervous system is firing all you do is keep giving them more meth, as you specifically quipped, and it makes it worse, way worse.  In actual fact the comedown from methylphenidate, the lazy prick who informed you of this knowledge, is anxiety.  Worse still, there's a rare chance that if you consume this magical mystery ADHD first line treatment medication, where ICE is legal in America, you know?  ICE?  In case of emergency?  Then you will experience sudden death.

Next time spell out what you mean and don't use anecdotal evidence looking for a flame war.  It's called ice, or if you have any balls call it methamphetamine.  There's no such thing as "meth".  It's coined "kiddy cocaine" by people who have suffered in abject turmoil, found the relief for their ailment, and sought psychiatric help swim, the OP, lets you know.

And whilst I could have taken you seriously and informed you on the actual effects and affects of both forms of methamphetamine and the psychological nature it has on time, I will.  Because I only just concluded that whilst knowledge is the only good doesn't automatically imply that all knowledge is good, that was precisely what was relayed in context of you did the reading correctly.  I'm trained in the benefit of the doubt, to give it, even if knowing better, so I'll put my vulgar language aside and share from empiricism.

Ice is an antidote for a condition called Akathesia.  One of the symptoms of Akathesia is the unbearable awareness of time.  I read that people commit suicide from that and if I didn't have speed and if I wasn't incarcerated involuntarily in a psychiatric hospital, where even there security measures wasn't enough for me to still manage to acquire crystal ice, with lorazepam on tap, with diazapam on tap, every 4 hours, if it wasn't for all the design I had at my disposal, and sharp observation...  I can't say.  All I know is that from the suffering I experienced from Akathesia I 100% understand why someone would kill themselves if they knew that's what was happening and find out they could be stuck like that for 2 mother ****ing years man :'(.

You know being frank is sometimes the best approach, but our friend that made that post also has severe anxiety issues which he has talked about on the forum.

Just thought you should have all the information no offense intended.

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I have a soft spot for people that have been through the throes of incarcerated therapy with the exception of folk with BPD due to it being very difficult to treat and the trust I have in therapists there to effectively help people manage.  I've witnessed first hand success from the stellar therapy I received, even if it was invasive and extremely traumatic I didn't develop PTSD from it because I can't ****ing remember ****.  It's all flashes.  What I remember is when I was manic.  What I don't remember is when I experience psychosis.  Nicotine breaks mania.  Marijuana, two tokes, breaks psychosis.  One toke make it worse than hell, the second worse still where ego death is a side effect that dispels psychosis temporarily however you still don't form memories because you sit in theta primary instead of Delta primary.  Your ability to remember is the same as your ability to remember dreams when in theta.

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3 minutes ago, PsiSeeker said:

I have a soft spot for people that have been through the throes of incarcerated therapy with the exception of folk with BPD due to it being very difficult to treat and the trust I have in therapists there to effectively help people manage.  I've witnessed first hand success from the stellar therapy I received, even if it was invasive and extremely traumatic I didn't develop PTSD from it because I can't ****ing remember ****.  It's all flashes.  What I remember is when I was manic.  What I don't remember is when I experience psychosis.  Nicotine breaks mania.  Marijuana, two tokes, breaks psychosis.  One toke make it worse than hell, the second worse still where ego death is a side effect that dispels psychosis temporarily however you still don't form memories because you sit in theta primary instead of Delta primary.  Your ability to remember is the same as your ability to remember dreams when in theta.

I spent 34 years in Military and then Government service and I suffer from PTSD. I have been through all the current therapy with out relief, the only thing that even helps is a medication regiment, along with medication to help me sleep. I am truly sorry for what you have endured and in some ways I think I can relate to it. Since I began suffering from PTSD I no longer want to remember my dreams because they are like a movie filmed of parts of my life that can’t be turned off. When I wake up covered in sweat shaking or yelling out and waking wife it is almost impossible to go back to sleep. I wish this could be cured, but since 1999 when it first started I have learned to live with it, the way I look at it is simple it could be worst!

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7 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

I spent 34 years in Military and then Government service and I suffer from PTSD. I have been through all the current therapy with out relief, the only thing that even helps is a medication regiment, along with medication to help me sleep. I am truly sorry for what you have endured and in some ways I think I can relate to it. Since I began suffering from PTSD I no longer want to remember my dreams because they are like a movie filmed of parts of my life that can’t be turned off. When I wake up covered in sweat shaking or yelling out and waking wife it is almost impossible to go back to sleep. I wish this could be cured, but since 1999 when it first started I have learned to live with it, the way I look at it is simple it could be worst!

The closest thing I have to relate is from the night terrors I experienced as a kid.  Wake up drenched.  Hypnopompic hallucinations believing angels are coming to get me.  When you experience the flashes, and your sympathetic nervous system begins triggering, try eating something.  Also, meditation breaks anxiety in 5 minutes when you get the hang of it after about 3 months.  Meditating for 30 minutes twice a day also helps bring down anxiety from the flashes occurring. (Psychiatrist validated this, I was meditating up to 8 hours a day, he brought me back to reality)

Meditation, for me, after 5 years of daily meditation, breaks panic almost immediately.

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Just now, PsiSeeker said:

The closest thing I have to relate is from the night terrors I experienced as a kid.  Wake up drenched.  Hypnopompic hallucinations believing angels are coming to get me.  When you experience the flashes, and your sympathetic nervous system begins triggering, try eating something.  Also, meditation breaks anxiety in 5 minutes when you get the hang of it after about 3 months.  Meditating for 30 minutes twice a day also helps bring down anxiety from the flashes occurring. (Psychiatrist validated this, I was meditating up to 8 hours a day, he brought me back to reality)

Meditation, for me, after 5 years of daily meditation, breaks panic almost immediately.

The reason it works is because the sympathetic nervous system is antagonistic to the parasympathetic nervous system.  The parasympathetic nervous system fires after masticating and sexual reproduction.  Masticating is the action of eating.  So the sympathetic nervous system attacks something other than you.  Providing some relief and potentially breaking the positive feedback loop of panic.  It's ****ing rough ride.  God knows I know.  Also, marijuana is an effective treatment for PTSD, the reason for this, I believe, is because there's a chance of experience panic whilst the fauna is active via the canibinoids in the brain.  It's so much worse than anything you can imagine where there's a chance you'll commit suicide from it but if you survive it you'll throw yourself in it again and again to try to understand and beat it.  For some reason the brain begins associating the controlled drug as the cause.  It takes 3 months to leave your system so once you feel you've bested it just leave it and don't touch it again after 3 months off it.  If you do you risk the panic spells again, traumatic as they are.

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19 minutes ago, PsiSeeker said:

The closest thing I have to relate is from the night terrors I experienced as a kid.  Wake up drenched.  Hypnopompic hallucinations believing angels are coming to get me.  When you experience the flashes, and your sympathetic nervous system begins triggering, try eating something.  Also, meditation breaks anxiety in 5 minutes when you get the hang of it after about 3 months.  Meditating for 30 minutes twice a day also helps bring down anxiety from the flashes occurring. (Psychiatrist validated this, I was meditating up to 8 hours a day, he brought me back to reality)

Meditation, for me, after 5 years of daily meditation, breaks panic almost immediately.

Thanks for the advice I am Buddhist so meditation is something I am familiar with and yes it does help. You see due to the life I choose for myself I have seen what people will do if they are left unchecked! I have no remorse for anything I have done because I did what was required and no more. It’s the sights, smells, and the horrific things I have seen on far to many occasions over and over again. It’s amazing that through it all I didn’t lose my humanity but I still have my conscience intact! I don’t experience flashes, I experience a movie of events that have occurred! I am no longer trigged by my surroundings or exterior stimulus the problems I deal with today occur in my sleep, now this may also partly be the result of a TBI I suffered in the mid-1990s but even the doctors can’t say fir certain!

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17 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Thanks for the advice I am Buddhist so meditation is something I am familiar with and yes it does help. You see due to the life I choose for myself I have seen what people will do if they are left unchecked! I have no remorse for anything I have done because I did what was required and no more. It’s the sights, smells, and the horrific things I have seen on far to many occasions over and over again. It’s amazing that through it all I didn’t lose my humanity but I still have my conscience intact! I don’t experience flashes, I experience a movie of events that have occurred! I am no longer trigged by my surroundings or exterior stimulus the problems I deal with today occur in my sleep, now this may also partly be the result of a TBI I suffered in the mid-1990s but even the doctors can’t say fir certain!

Ah lord.  The sleep.  There are some medications that cause night terrors to reemerge.  Have you tried writing the memories down in full with as much detail as possible?  I heard it helps but it's a bit tough going for the first 2 months after and then it gets better.

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27 minutes ago, PsiSeeker said:

Ah lord.  The sleep.  There are some medications that cause night terrors to reemerge.  Have you tried writing the memories down in full with as much detail as possible?  I heard it helps but it's a bit tough going for the first 2 months after and then it gets better.

I don’t need too write them down, they are actual events that occurred in my life. I can sit here right now and remember ever detail however they just don’t go away they keep coming back to remind me of what I have seen! When I am awake i don’t think about it, but once a sleep I have no control. It doesn’t happen every night anymore as time has passed it has gotten a little better, but I have no control when it may happen.

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On 5/20/2022 at 4:42 AM, quiXilver said:

I suspect the incongruencies we experience at the extremes are due to the inaccuracy of our perceptual process, not to mystical strangeness in natural process.

Humans do not perceive the universe as it is, but as it's interpreted by sensory transduction.  And these five functions are severely limited and innacurate. We perceive a micro-fractional sliver of what goes on around us... then extrapolate from that to make large claims.  The fallacy is strong with us.

Even our instrumentation which are built to help reach a bit beyond our normal sensory range are built on the foundational; principles of our senses and thus, our perceptual bias is inherent in them.

I've had this exact thought!  In actual fact the best measurement of time we have is something like 50% accuracy at 3 orders of magnitude of 10 short from what is perfect timing to the Planck second!  Absolutely outstanding.

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Just now, Grim Reaper 6 said:

I don’t need too write them down, they are actual events that occurred in my life. I can sit here right now and remember ever detail however they just don’t go away they keep coming back to remind me of what I have seen! When I am awake i don’t think about it, but once a sleep I have no control. It doesn’t happen every night anymore as time has passed it has gotten a little better, but I have no control when it may happen.

This is what is supposed to happen according to clinical psychologists and very informed Quorans.  If your memory is operating perfectly then you don't need to remember everything!  If you write down the memories and dreams in as much detail as possible AND, I think, perhaps, store them very carefully where you can easily reach them then it tricks the brain into thinking it no longer needs to keep with a tight grip on the experiences you relive.  Experiencing a memory is literally reliving the event albeit with latent inhibition applied.  The thinking goes by writing it out in full and storing it it externalises it from the brain and should you need to recall it there's a window of where the brain believes it's stored that makes it so one doesn't need to relive the events!

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1 minute ago, PsiSeeker said:

This is what is supposed to happen according to clinical psychologists and very informed Quorans.  If your memory is operating perfectly then you don't need to remember everything!  If you write down the memories and dreams in as much detail as possible AND, I think, perhaps, store them very carefully where you can easily reach them then it tricks the brain into thinking it no longer needs to keep with a tight grip on the experiences you relive.  Experiencing a memory is literally reliving the event albeit with latent inhibition applied.  The thinking goes by writing it out in full and storing it it externalises it from the brain and should you need to recall it there's a window of where the brain believes it's stored that makes it so one doesn't need to relive the events!

Thanks I may try it, I appreciate the thought and your help.

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On 5/18/2022 at 8:55 AM, lightly said:

That IS Beautiful quiXilver & joc!        Ya, “TIME”. Does not exist..      .I’m not sure I even believe in this “moment”  or “now”.    All I believe in and Know is     IS          Aristotle said ‘there is no time apart from change’.      (change IS).   My lovable old uncle Albert said. .  ‘the distinction between past, present, and future, is only a stubbornly persistent illusion’.   (Illusion IS)  …there is only  IS        …when is now?  Oops!* too late!

The thing about Now and Is being an illusion is quite true.  There can be no Now actually because of Constant Change.  If everything is constantly changing then there can be no static point.  The only static points are one's we create.   And they are just facsimiles of Now.  That's a huge problem because all of our measurements are illusions as well.  On one hand they are real...but on the other hand...they are incorrect, no matter how precise.  It's why we cannot put our finger on Now...because Now doesn't exist.  The only thing that is constant in the universe is Change.

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2 hours ago, joc said:

The thing about Now and Is being an illusion is quite true.  There can be no Now actually because of Constant Change.  If everything is constantly changing then there can be no static point.  The only static points are one's we create.   And they are just facsimiles of Now.  That's a huge problem because all of our measurements are illusions as well.  On one hand they are real...but on the other hand...they are incorrect, no matter how precise.  It's why we cannot put our finger on Now...because Now doesn't exist.  The only thing that is constant in the universe is Change.

If now doesn’t exist how can you perceive change because change is also a measurement of what Time! So back to the drawing board because if your analogy above were correct this conversation would not exist. Everything has a beginning and an end nothing can be considered endless and we certainly do not create the static points. For instance the earth rotates on its axis and it also rotates around the sun day and night are not static points created by man they are a constant measurement it’s not an illusion. The Universe certainly began and it will end these are constants so I don’t really understand your idea in the conversation above but I am willing to learn so please explain it further.

Thanks.

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5 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

If now doesn’t exist how can you perceive change because change is also a measurement of what Time! So back to the drawing board because if your analogy above were correct this conversation would not exist. Everything has a beginning and an end nothing can be considered endless and we certainly do not create the static points. For instance the earth rotates on its axis and it also rotates around the sun day and night are not static points created by man they are a constant measurement it’s not an illusion. The Universe certainly began and it will end these are constants so I don’t really understand your idea in the conversation above but I am willing to learn so please explain it further.

Thanks.

When I say 'static' point.  I mean, a point where you can start to measure the change.  Velocity is measured by how far a thing can travel in a certain amount of time. But in order to measure how far how fast, we have to create a static point.  A point where there is no movement. The runner can be in the stopped position and when the gun sounds can begin running. As he crosses the 100 yard mark, the man with the clock says  10.03 seconds.  That is a static point which we created.  But in reality there are no points anywhere that a thing is stopped.  It's all constant change.

Everything has a beginning and an end?  Are you sure?  Through out the Constant Change of every atom in the entire Universe, energy is being exchanged.  The energy had a beginning?  The energy had an end?  When does energy end?  Would not the end of the universe be the end of energy?  It gets very complicated.

The constant movement is not an illusion...the measurement of the constant movement is an illusion.  Because we create the static points along the way.  And so with regard to Now...where along any spectrum in reality does now actually exist...one cannot put one's finger on it because there are no static points in which Now stops.  As soon as one says it is right now, right now is the past...there is no future, there is no past, there is no present...there is only Now...and so, Now can only be defined as the Constant Change itself.  Immeasurable Constant Change.  There is no time.  No beginning, no end.  These are the static points we create in order to understand the concept of Time.

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7 hours ago, joc said:

The thing about Now and Is being an illusion is quite true.  There can be no Now actually because of Constant Change.  If everything is constantly changing then there can be no static point.  The only static points are one's we create.   And they are just facsimiles of NOW.  That's a huge problem because all of our measurements are illusions as well.  On one hand they are real...but on the other hand...they are incorrect, no matter how precise.  It's why we cannot put our finger on Now...because Now doesn't exist.  The only thing that is constant in the universe is Change.

I like the way you Think!  and I think your right about change being the only constant.   Change  is .   What is change?  motion?  Of Everything that is.
Isn’t is the only impossibility.  There is no isn’t.   whaaat!?                  I think everything is in a constant state of Re Creation.  If it wasn’t it would be, as you say, static..and it isn’t static.

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15 hours ago, lightly said:

I like the way you Think!  and I think your right about change being the only constant.   Change  is .   What is change?  motion?  Of Everything that is.
Isn’t is the only impossibility.  There is no isn’t.   whaaat!?                  I think everything is in a constant state of Re Creation.  If it wasn’t it would be, as you say, static..and it isn’t static.

Depends what the definition of IS is...

Sorry couldn't help myself...

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10 hours ago, joc said:

Depends what the definition of IS is...

Sorry couldn't help myself...

Exactly !     All I know is,  is  is  is.     Is there anything that isn’t ?      (actually, I’ve always wondered if is can exist..without isn’t !    sort of like light only being seen…in the dark!) ??&?       . . . so I stick with  is is all there is .

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…to try to be a little more serious ,trying to think about if there IS a link between is and isn’t, how about Virtual particles? Aren’t they said to ‘blink’ in and out of existence?  ..emerging from fluctuations in quantum fields?  ..and are the basis of the formation of atoms/ matter?
Virtual:  Existing in essence or effect   though not in actual fact or form.    (I dunno, I probably don’t understand what I’m talking about)?

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4 hours ago, lightly said:

…to try to be a little more serious ,trying to think about if there IS a link between is and isn’t, how about Virtual particles? Aren’t they said to ‘blink’ in and out of existence?  ..emerging from fluctuations in quantum fields?  ..and are the basis of the formation of atoms/ matter?
Virtual:  Existing in essence or effect   though not in actual fact or form.    (I dunno, I probably don’t understand what I’m talking about)?

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10 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Very interesting!  Thanks for sharing.

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