Christians on a Plane (Singing for Jesus)

[Opus Magnus]

On 4/19/2022 at 4:54 PM, and then said:

This is important context and it seems to be unknown:

"It is not confirmed whether the flight was on a commercial airline where some passengers simply broke out into song, if everyone travelling was of the same religious group, or if permission was asked of others or any crew beforehand."

IF it was a commercial flight then I'd expect them to ask permission of the rest of the passengers before they began the singing.  To do otherwise is just rude.  If it was a chartered flight then they had every right to do as they did.  Telling people about one's faith in Christ isn't the same as ramming it down their throats in a situation where they're a captive audience.

As Jesus says in the Gospel, "Whoever is ashamed to admit me before men, so also will my angels be ashamed of them." So, your type of mentality is pretty cowardly to me. As Ukraine is getting raped and murdered, I don't think this is a time to be scared to speak your mind. Or to be gawking about someone doing an Easter Carolling on a plane as an unviolent demonstration of faith.

[eight bits]

4 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Airline flights are not democracies, they are dictatorships as they should be.

The dictator is the pilot-in-command. In this case, the perps claim that they'd asked the cabin crew, who in turn asked the pilot, and the pilot OK'd it.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/viral-pastor-reveals-what-took-place-prior-to-worship-on-airplane.html

The article has a lot of padding in it, but clears up a few points, from the pastor's point of view. This includes the view that  subsequent criticism of his breach of the peace is another example of persecution.

Quote

The pastor believes the criticism he and his team have received is what’s expected as a follower of Christ.

"They persecuted Jesus and persecuted the disciples. This is just what we laid our life down for. This is the cost,” Jensz maintained.

So many Christians, so few lions, eh, rev?

 

Edited April 21 by eight bits

[jmccr8]

16 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

There isn't anything which requires blame 

Sure some people might like peace and quiet on a plane but, for many, entertainment overcomes fear of flying stress and anxiety 

Given the circumstances, NO ONE did anything wrong.   There is no reason 95 people should stay silent, just to keep 5 people happy. 

I don't notice anyone on the flight complaining.

I couldn't help but imagine some disgruntled upper class gentleman on the Titanic, complaining of the noise from  the band, which was  playing as the ship sank  

Hi Walker

Not sure that I blamed anyone and didn't write the article. What I did do was give a link to show that it was a commercial flight seeing as how it was brought up in a discussion forum and seemed not resolved at the time of posting.

[jmccr8]

2 hours ago, eight bits said:

So many Christians, so few lions, eh, rev?

[+Nuclear Wessel]

9 hours ago, Phantom309 said:

They were probably many seething quietly, as most people don't want to create a big scene......and just hoping it would all end soon.  

Like the guy on the left lol

[+and-then]

On 4/20/2022 at 8:57 AM, preacherman76 said:

I can't help but wonder the reaction if this had been ANY other religion? 

Well, to be fair, Ilhan was right about how a group of Muslims breaking out the prayer mats would be treated.  Had these people had a sedate, quiet little prayer meeting among themselves that might have raised complaints as well BUT by insisting on causing everyone to be part of the meeting, they were just wrong.  

[Phantom309]

Now criticism of this poor decision and unfortunate performance is "just like the persecution of Jesus" .  I think I'm gonna barf and hurl and all that stuff.

https://deadstate.org/pastor-who-went-viral-singing-christian-songs-on-plane-says-criticism-is-like-persecution-of-jesus/

[+Liquid Gardens]

1 hour ago, and then said:

Had these people had a sedate, quiet little prayer meeting among themselves that might have raised complaints

True, in our current era I'm not sure if we'd even have complaints, I think a lot of fliers feel lucky today if they have a complete flight where there's no one on board who misbehaves so badly that security has to meet the plane at the gate. 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/faa-makes-tolerance-policy-unruly-passengers-permanent/story?id=84194704

[+and-then]

13 hours ago, Opus Magnus said:

So, your type of mentality is pretty cowardly to me

Duly noted.  Christ Himself made it clear that HIS gospel was to be spread but any that refused it should be left alone and the apostles were to "kick off the dust from their sandals" as they left that town.  That doesn't sound like He wanted forced conversions to me.  I'll agree that they did no real harm by worshipping on the plane but sharing the good news does not give Christians the right to hound people over the message.  Our job is to plant the seed.  After that, it's up to the Holy Spirit to tend it.

 

[Opus Magnus]

7 hours ago, and then said:

Duly noted.  Christ Himself made it clear that HIS gospel was to be spread but any that refused it should be left alone and the apostles were to "kick off the dust from their sandals" as they left that town.  That doesn't sound like He wanted forced conversions to me.  I'll agree that they did no real harm by worshipping on the plane but sharing the good news does not give Christians the right to hound people over the message.  Our job is to plant the seed.  After that, it's up to the Holy Spirit to tend it.

 

Almost right. But you can say it as much as you want. But by, "Asking for permission," to speak your mind, you are negating the freedoms that have been fought for. If you don't express your freedom, then God will take them right away from you. "Can I sing a Gospel song?" "NO. YOU CAN NEVER SING IT!"

These freedoms have been fought for. Like the freedom of speech, freedom of religion, the freedom of the press, the right to bear arms, and the right to peacefully assemble. This is not only for Christianity, but for all religions. Muslims do make their prayers vocal in public. If a Satanist group were on a plane and spreading some news of their faith, then they are free to do so. This applies to Pagans and any religion. This is the freedom that has been fought for.

As long as this demonstration is peaceful it should be fine. If you want to cower before the Holy Spirit and ask for permission to speak, then it will be happy to take your freedom away and give it to someone else. First you 'hound' them, then if the reaction is unreception you can kick off the dust from your feet and leave for good.

[+and-then]

5 hours ago, Opus Magnus said:

But you can say it as much as you want.

Thanks   I will.  You've made your feelings on this quite clear and I have no problem with you acting according to how you feel called to act.  In case you hadn't noticed, though, our nation is at the point of real consequences because of groups agitating toward one another.  I agree with you TOTALLY about most "public spaces".  I try to be a fair minded individual to the extent I'm able.  I look at it from the other guy's POV.  If I were on a flight and had to sit quietly while someone was playing Muezzin to call the faithful to prayer, THEN have multiple members of the passengers elbowing me for room to kneel in the aisle, I wouldn't deal well with that.  

OTOH, if a brother in Christ began a spontaneous worship celebration in an area where non-Christians were not COMPELLED to take part, "up close and personal", I'd cheerfully join in.  Do you understand the distinction I'm trying to make?  

[+and-then]

5 hours ago, Opus Magnus said:

First you 'hound' them

I disagree.  I've been in churches before where we did door to door on Saturdays for a couple of hours to spread the word and most folks were polite and a few eventually took the offer to be a guest at our church.  Those rare few who got angry and told us to get out, we respected and moved on without another word.  I'm curious though, how do you define "hound them"?  

[+and-then]

18 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

True, in our current era I'm not sure if we'd even have complaints, I think a lot of fliers feel lucky today if they have a complete flight where there's no one on board who misbehaves so badly that security has to meet the plane at the gate. 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/faa-makes-tolerance-policy-unruly-passengers-permanent/story?id=84194704

I hadn't considered that but yeah, flying ain't like it was 10 years ago.  It's gotten ridiculous and until the people who start fighting in the aisles get serious repercussions, it'll only get worse.

[XenoFish]

There's a difference between spreading "the word" and preaching at people. If you preach too/at them they'll grow resentful, hostile and even violent. This pretty much applies to any ideology. Eventually a person becomes tired of hearing/seeing it.

[+and-then]

I just came across this:

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/04/24/christian-pastor-at-center-of-ilhan-omar-dig-responds-explains-real-focus-behind-singing-on-plane-1229710/?utm_medium=newsletter&utm_source=Get response&utm_term=email&utm_content=4-24-22 JSM PM&utm_campaign=james

This clears it up and provides accurate context.  The flight WAS NOT public.  It was a charter for the group of Christian missionaries who were helping in Ukraine.  The pastor asked for and received permission before the music began.  There were no complaints over the music at the time.   

[SecretSanta]

26 minutes ago, and then said:

I just came across this:

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/04/24/christian-pastor-at-center-of-ilhan-omar-dig-responds-explains-real-focus-behind-singing-on-plane-1229710/?utm_medium=newsletter&utm_source=Get response&utm_term=email&utm_content=4-24-22 JSM PM&utm_campaign=james

This clears it up and provides accurate context.  The flight WAS NOT public.  It was a charter for the group of Christian missionaries who were helping in Ukraine.  The pastor asked for and received permission before the music began.  There were no complaints over the music at the time.   

Depends on the type of charter.

There are private and public charter.

Public charters are nearly always offered by airlines with spare capacity. Often airlines (particularly low-cost airlines, who rely on the full capacity to make a profit) will offer out a block booking of seats on one of their scheduled services to travel agents or in partnership with a cruise company.

While the flight actually takes place on a scheduled service, that block of seats has been specifically booked to cater to the needs of another company. They may specify different requirements for ‘their’ passengers. Still, users can expect to travel with ‘regular’ members of the public too.

I think it was a public charter since they made an announcement and told the other passengers who they were and what they had been doing in Ukraine, meaning not everyone was familiar with them. 

[XenoFish]

1 hour ago, and then said:

I just came across this:

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/04/24/christian-pastor-at-center-of-ilhan-omar-dig-responds-explains-real-focus-behind-singing-on-plane-1229710/?utm_medium=newsletter&utm_source=Get response&utm_term=email&utm_content=4-24-22 JSM PM&utm_campaign=james

This clears it up and provides accurate context.  The flight WAS NOT public.  It was a charter for the group of Christian missionaries who were helping in Ukraine.  The pastor asked for and received permission before the music began.  There were no complaints over the music at the time.   

So a big fat nothing-burger.

[Golden Duck]

Quote

You are highly exalted
Name above all names

Bordeline heresy

Quote

Worthy of all praise

Backhanded praise, that is.

https://sovereigngracemusic.org/music/songs/name-above-all-names/

[+and-then]

21 hours ago, XenoFish said:

So a big fat nothing-burger.

"a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"

Human nature doesn't seem to change.

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, and then said:

"a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"

Pretty much every drop of news and click bait articles, and twitter.

[Mr Walker]

On 4/21/2022 at 2:55 PM, locomekipkachelfantje said:

Yeah, but the Titanic was large enough to be able to escape the noise produced by a couple of religious nuts.

That sort of person wouldn't try to avoid it. The y would just whinge and complain. 

[Mr Walker]

On 4/21/2022 at 10:28 PM, Liquid Gardens said:

Airline flights are not democracies, they are dictatorships as they should be.

Only up to a point. Past that point aircraft often epitomise a democracy in action. 

[jmccr8]

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I like talking to interesting people, like yourself.

Hi Walker

Thanks, and yet one must employ discretion as to where and when to discuss some topics especially in a mixed age forum or being mindful would be another way to say it. I enjoy our exchanges as well and am waiting for you to start a thread so we can have some fun.

[Golden Duck]

There's no way I'd be having "interesting" conversation with at least half-a-dozen sets of years within a yard, or so.

Maybe things are different when you astro-travel first class.