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Is there alien tech lying at the bottom of the sea ?


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49 minutes ago, joc said:

I'm sure you don't care but if you even remotely wonder why I think that...ask me and I will tell you.

oh i do care, please do- seriously :tu:

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42 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

oh i do care, please do- seriously :tu:

Thank you!  

I think it is highly unlikely that there are any other planets in the Milky Way Galaxy that have any kind of life forms because:

1.  We do know that the Laws of Physics are not just of this Earth but they apply to the Universe et al.  

     a.   The Earth is 93.455 million miles from the Sun.  

     b.   The Earth has life on it.

     c.   No other planets in our solar system are life inhabitable.

     d.   There is a  formula we know of where life can happen and this is it:

Quote

 

Sun Ratio (Sun/Earth)
Mass (1024 kg) 1,988,500. 333,000.
GM (x 106 km3/s2) 132,712. 333,000.
Volume (1012 km3) 1,412,000. 1,304,000.
Volumetric mean radius (km) 695,700.

109.2

 

We have not found a plethora of star systems that have planets with the formula for life.  In fact we have only found 258 planetary systems.

Quote

Known Planetary Systems. There are 258 known planetary systems around main sequence stars, including the solar system, containing at least 302 known planets.

Out of the 302 known planets in our galaxy, only 59 are in the Habitable Zone.

There are some who have suggested that life forms could be something other than carbon based.  But Carbon Based life is all we know so, that's what I'm rolling with.

Trillions of Galaxies, each containing billions of stars and I am saying there is only one grain of sand on the entire beach that is multi-colored.  Kind of silly actually isn't it?  But we do 'know' certain things...and we do know that it is quite likely that in this galaxy we are pretty much it.  And we also know that the odds of anything hitting our planet from inter-galactic space is infinitesimal. 

Just a note:  I don't think what I think because of any of the links I posted.  I searched for the links while I was posting to support my original thought.  Turns out I was sort of correct.  Go figure! 

The bottom line is, and this is the bottom line literally, you are correct, we have no idea what's out there. 

Edit:  so the literal bottom line is this edit, and I only add it because I thought if was interesting as I was reading about The Habitable Zone after originally posting the above:

Because our Sun has nurtured life on Earth for nearly 4 billion years, conventional wisdom would suggest that stars like it would be prime candidates in the search for other potentially habitable worlds. G-type yellow stars like our Sun, however, are shorter-lived and less common in our galaxy.

Edited by joc
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I think it possible that alien tech is lying on the bottom of the ocean, but extremely unlikely,  After much consideration, I believe the best explanation is that we may be visited by ourselves in some form from the future, or we live in a simulation of some sort, or lastly, nature is all there is and there is no explanation for anything.  

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21 hours ago, joc said:

     d.   There is a  formula we know of where life can happen and this is it:

Are you saying that a planet and its sun must have certain mass/volume ratio for life to happen on it?

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3 hours ago, astrobeing said:

Are you saying that a planet and its sun must have certain mass/volume ratio for life to happen on it?

No.  What I am saying is that the Planet has to be a certain distance from the sun.  That distance is relative to the size of the star and the size of the planet.  The main ingredient for life is water...so the planet has to have liquid water.  Like the 3 bears and Goldlocks story...Too cold, or too hot isn't good...it needs to be 'just right'.  

The sweet spot for that to happen might be with a planet and a star where the planets orbit puts it either too close or too far from the sun and so life can never really flourish even though there may be liquid water from time to time.  What I am trying to say is that obviously, the conditions have to be 'just right' in order for life to come into being on a planet.  And to date, it isn't looking all that promising.

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10 hours ago, joc said:

No.  What I am saying is that the Planet has to be a certain distance from the sun.  That distance is relative to the size of the star and the size of the planet.

So you were just describing the Goldilocks Zone in a complicated way.

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I'd be more intrigued by the potential of craft gliding through the waters, not lying derelict, but then, who doesn't love a good wreck dive?

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On 4/22/2022 at 7:07 PM, joc said:

Honestly, i highly doubt there is any ET tech anywhere in the Milky Way Galaxy.

But seriously...A Harvard Physicist?  An object is determined to have come from beyond our star system and his reaction is to wonder if it is ET alien Hardware?

Let's ponder this with him shall we?  Out of ALL the possibilities of what it could be that splashed into one of our oceans...and a Harvard Physicist thinks we should consider among all of the plethoric possibilities of it's origin that it just could be Alien ET...smh

  I know that it is highly unlikely that there are any  other star systems in our Galaxy that have life at all, much less life forms that have achieved Technology.  I'm sure you don't care but if you even remotely wonder why I think that...ask me and I will tell you.

Hi Joc,

I would actually disagree. I believe there is plenty of intelligent life in our Galaxy alone, as well as microbes and other "non-intelligent" life. I just think that physics prohibits the travelling between stars and we simply don't have the technological means to detect it yet on their home planets/moons, if we ever will. But that is strictly a belief as we currently only have a sample of one to work from - ourselves.

Cheers,

Badeskov   

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2 hours ago, astrobeing said:

So you were just describing the Goldilocks Zone in a complicated way.

Yeah...probably.  Sometimes the thoughts I have get extrapolated like that when I start to write them out.  The bottom line is, we know what it takes to have life on a planet and there are very few that meet the requirements.

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27 minutes ago, badeskov said:

Hi Joc,

I would actually disagree. I believe there is plenty of intelligent life in our Galaxy alone, as well as microbes and other "non-intelligent" life. I just think that physics prohibits the travelling between stars and we simply don't have the technological means to detect it yet on their home planets/moons, if we ever will. But that is strictly a belief as we currently only have a sample of one to work from - ourselves.

Cheers,

Badeskov   

I do agree with you about the distance between stars.  Then again, it is also  possible that we are the only life form at all in existence in the entire Universe.  Doubtful I think but possible.  And just because a planet has all the necessary ingredients for life to form on it doesn't necessarily mean it will either.  We have yet to initiate any kind of spontaneous eruption of life...so...yeah...

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5 minutes ago, joc said:

I do agree with you about the distance between stars.  Then again, it is also  possible that we are the only life form at all in existence in the entire Universe.  Doubtful I think but possible.  And just because a planet has all the necessary ingredients for life to form on it doesn't necessarily mean it will either.  We have yet to initiate any kind of spontaneous eruption of life...so...yeah...

Indeed. As you mentioned in a previous post yourself, we simply do not know. All we have are guesses and our own beliefs. We have no hint of any life external to Earth anywhere as of yet.

Cheers,

Badeskov  

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1 hour ago, badeskov said:

Indeed. As you mentioned in a previous post yourself, we simply do not know. All we have are guesses and our own beliefs. We have no hint of any life external to Earth anywhere as of yet.

Cheers,

Badeskov  

I think that we should be able to 'create' a life form...but alas...we as yet cannot.  So, it seems that it is a quite illusive thing...life...which also leads me to think that it is quite rare.  Then again...there might not be any life at all...we might be a simulated loop left over from who knows what...life might actually not even exist at all, anywhere....

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2 hours ago, joc said:

I think that we should be able to 'create' a life form...but alas...we as yet cannot.  So, it seems that it is a quite illusive thing...life...which also leads me to think that it is quite rare.  Then again...there might not be any life at all...we might be a simulated loop left over from who knows what...life might actually not even exist at all, anywhere....

@astrobeing  lol  sorry dude, didn't mean to throw a wrench into the discussion...I do not think we are a simulation of any kind, just to be clear...but there are some that have acknowledged that as a logical possibility and because I have absolute respect for their intellect, I do not entirely discount it.  Just really threw that in there for fun. :)

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5 hours ago, joc said:

I do agree with you about the distance between stars.  Then again, it is also  possible that we are the only life form at all in existence in the entire Universe.  Doubtful I think but possible.  And just because a planet has all the necessary ingredients for life to form on it doesn't necessarily mean it will either.  We have yet to initiate any kind of spontaneous eruption of life...so...yeah...

I think one day science will find that the universe is there to create life. Just an opinion though.

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36 minutes ago, razman said:

I think one day science will find that the universe is there to create life. Just an opinion though.

If it's here to create life then it's doing a horrible job! Just look at the planets in our solar system! They're nothing like Earth at all and they're all death traps for any kind of life that we know about. Even here on Earth life has nearly killed itself off at least one time already.

The universe appears to be good at creating suns, rocky planets, and gas giants and that's about it.

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On 4/23/2022 at 1:28 PM, joc said:

Thank you!  

I think it is highly unlikely that there are any other planets in the Milky Way Galaxy that have any kind of life forms because:

1.  We do know that the Laws of Physics are not just of this Earth but they apply to the Universe et al.  

     a.   The Earth is 93.455 million miles from the Sun.  

     b.   The Earth has life on it.

     c.   No other planets in our solar system are life inhabitable.

     d.   There is a  formula we know of where life can happen and this is it:

We have not found a plethora of star systems that have planets with the formula for life.  In fact we have only found 258 planetary systems.

Out of the 302 known planets in our galaxy, only 59 are in the Habitable Zone.

There are some who have suggested that life forms could be something other than carbon based.  But Carbon Based life is all we know so, that's what I'm rolling with.

Trillions of Galaxies, each containing billions of stars and I am saying there is only one grain of sand on the entire beach that is multi-colored.  Kind of silly actually isn't it?  But we do 'know' certain things...and we do know that it is quite likely that in this galaxy we are pretty much it.  And we also know that the odds of anything hitting our planet from inter-galactic space is infinitesimal. 

Just a note:  I don't think what I think because of any of the links I posted.  I searched for the links while I was posting to support my original thought.  Turns out I was sort of correct.  Go figure! 

The bottom line is, and this is the bottom line literally, you are correct, we have no idea what's out there. 

Edit:  so the literal bottom line is this edit, and I only add it because I thought if was interesting as I was reading about The Habitable Zone after originally posting the above:

Because our Sun has nurtured life on Earth for nearly 4 billion years, conventional wisdom would suggest that stars like it would be prime candidates in the search for other potentially habitable worlds. G-type yellow stars like our Sun, however, are shorter-lived and less common in our galaxy.

There’s liquid salt water on Europa, that in my mind puts it one thermal vent away from housing extremophiles

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1 hour ago, astrobeing said:

If it's here to create life then it's doing a horrible job! Just look at the planets in our solar system! They're nothing like Earth at all and they're all death traps for any kind of life that we know about. Even here on Earth life has nearly killed itself off at least one time already.

The universe appears to be good at creating suns, rocky planets, and gas giants and that's about it.

Its not going to be everywhere , look how big the universe is. Our solar system is just a drop in the bucket compared to it all. Maybe there is a reason the other planets in our solar system are the way they are , like for a certain balance. Obviously the universe created life here , do you think we are the only ones with billions and trillions of galaxies with billions and trillions of suns in each one? We may have almost killed ourselves off , though the universe may create life , it is really us that then takes it from there and does it to ourselves.

Edited by razman
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If we take all the knowledge humanity has accumulated the last 2000 years (mostly the last 200, or rather 120), the sum of it all throws all our hunches and hopes to the gutter. If there is intelligent beings out there, we will never meet them, or even say hello.
Life may be all around us and seemingly relentless in its insisting of surviving, but that does not make life normal, in a universal sense. Everything we know suggests that life is extremely rare, maybe even isolated to Earth.
It is the greatest mystery of all how it began at all. Nobody has been able to recreate it, even under the most ideal conditions. And a perfectly suited waterworld like Earth must be extremely rare.

I agree with my buddy @joc  - This here we got, might be it! So we better not screw it up!

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18 minutes ago, razman said:

Its not going to be everywhere , look how big the universe is. Our solar system is just a drop in the bucket compared to it all.

It's also the only drop in the bucket that we know anything about.

19 minutes ago, razman said:

Maybe there is a reason the other planets in our solar system are the way they are , like for a certain balance.

Balance???

19 minutes ago, razman said:

 Obviously the universe created life here

That's not obvious at all. Life just happened to appear here.

20 minutes ago, razman said:

 do you think we are the only ones with billions and trillions of galaxies with billions and trillions of suns in each one?

Possibly. If you go through the series of many many many unlikely events that led to life on Earth and multiply all the probabilities, you could end up with a number much larger than a million billion trillion to one. There may not be enough planets in the universe to make life elsewhere likely. In fact, it may be that life anywhere in the universe is extremely unlikely and Earth simply beat the odds. These are all possibilities.

24 minutes ago, razman said:

We may have almost killed ourselves off , though the universe may create life , it is really us that then takes it from there and does it to ourselves.

What are you talking about??? We never almost killed ourselves off. I'm referring to something that happened about two billion years ago in which life was poisoning the planet and a cycle suddenly formed like a miracle before everything died. Surely you know about this event, don't you?

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43 minutes ago, astrobeing said:

It's also the only drop in the bucket that we know anything about.

That there says a lot , so with what little we actually do know in the grand scheme of things it makes it just as likely possible that there is life there , not in our solar system , but in the universe in general.. Just the sheer numbers and size alone i would say swing the likelyhood that there is. 

43 minutes ago, astrobeing said:

Balance???

Yes like gravitational balance perhaps.

43 minutes ago, astrobeing said:

That's not obvious at all. Life just happened to appear here.

I suppose if one believes that it is all evolution or chance then i could see that point of view.

43 minutes ago, astrobeing said:

Possibly. If you go through the series of many many many unlikely events that led to life on Earth and multiply all the probabilities, you could end up with a number much larger than a million billion trillion to one. There may not be enough planets in the universe to make life elsewhere likely. In fact, it may be that life anywhere in the universe is extremely unlikely and Earth simply beat the odds. These are all possibilities.

Again if one believes the chance scenario then then it may seem like a series of unlikely events led to life , But with what we know its like looking out of a distorted lens and perhaps it wasn't so unlikely at all, it is a possibility. 

43 minutes ago, astrobeing said:

What are you talking about??? We never almost killed ourselves off. I'm referring to something that happened about two billion years ago in which life was poisoning the planet and a cycle suddenly formed like a miracle before everything died. Surely you know about this event, don't you?

I thought you were talking about wars through the years and now with nuclear you know. Anyway look at how complex our DNA and bodies and such are , to me there seems some intelligence in there almost as if it designed. to go accidently from very little to nothing to the extreme complex order that are DNA and bodies are , and even nature , is quite a stretch. But like i said when i first mentioned this above a ways , it is just my opinion as its hard to really prove all this one way or the other.

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40 minutes ago, razman said:

That there says a lot , so with what little we actually do know in the grand scheme of things it makes it just as likely possible that there is life there. Just the sheer numbers and size alone i would say swing the likelyhood that there is.

From what you've said so far, it doesn't sound to me like you've really grasped the series of events that led to life on Earth. You're talking about all those stars and ignoring what we know happened here on Earth.

40 minutes ago, razman said:

Yes like gravitational balance perhaps.

??? A gravitational balance is a device that measures changes in gravity.

40 minutes ago, razman said:

I suppose if one believes that it is all evolution or chance then i could see that point of view.

All scientific evidence has shown it was evolution and chance, so to accept your theory I have to reject two hundred years of science.

40 minutes ago, razman said:

Again if one believes the chance scenario then then it may seem like a series of unlikely events led to life , But with what we know its like looking out of a distorted lens and perhaps it wasn't so unlikely at all, it is a possibility.

What we know is two hundreds of years of collected evidence explained by scientific theories. Again, to accept your theory we have to reject all evidence we have collected.

40 minutes ago, razman said:

I thought you were talking about wars through the years and now with nuclear you know.

????? Wars never came close to wiping out life on Earth! We never came close to "nuclear"! I'm talking about the Great Oxidation Event of two billion years ago in which cyanobacteria poisoned the Earth with oxygen and it began killing species. This is the major problem of life: it will consume all resources and poison the planet unless a cycle is created and there's no reason that cycles must be created.

Clearly all your theories are made out of complete ignorance of what we know about life on Earth. I strongly recommend you get a book on what we know about the history of life on Earth and read it!

40 minutes ago, razman said:

Anyway look at how complex our DNA and bodies and such are , to me there seems some intelligence in there almost as if it designed. to go accidently from very little to nothing to the extreme complex order that are DNA and bodies are , and even nature , is quite a stretch. But like i said when i first mentioned this above a ways , it is just my opinion as its hard to really prove all this one way or the other.

No, it's very easy to prove that we aren't the product of Intelligent Design and a little searching will reveal a ton of proof.

Edited by astrobeing
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Sounds like you just want to argue that you are right and i am wrong , not me , its late goodnight. I have an open mind , i am aware of the possibilities you are saying as well. And my ego is not afraid to be wrong.

Edited by razman
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4 minutes ago, razman said:

Sounds like you just want to argue that you are right and i am wrong , not me , its late goodnight. 

I'm just telling you what the science says. If you want to believe in a thinking universe that created life and put humans on Earth and wants to fill itself with life then don't claim that science backs your belief because it doesn't.

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8 hours ago, astrobeing said:

I'm just telling you what the science says. If you want to believe in a thinking universe that created life and put humans on Earth and wants to fill itself with life then don't claim that science backs your belief because it doesn't.

Morning , before work. Well i'm not saying that it is a thinking universe , but its possible that the universe is designed ,  or lets say perhaps there was some kind of interference along the way that altered our development , by some intelligence , directed it. Its just speculation , I never claimed that science backed my view , i said several times that it was just an opinion and some of these things possibilities. One thing as we have seen over the years , in some cases it seems like science is very biased in its views of what it sees and its studies, to the point that it absolutely cannot see past its rigid view. Or say , its so biased in its views that if there were the possibility of anything else , it simply would deny itself the possibility of seeing it . 

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4 hours ago, razman said:

Morning , before work. Well i'm not saying that it is a thinking universe , but its possible that the universe is designed ,  or lets say perhaps there was some kind of interference along the way that altered our development , by some intelligence , directed it. Its just speculation , I never claimed that science backed my view

Why do you believe things that contradict evidence? That's like living in a fantasy world.

4 hours ago, razman said:

One thing as we have seen over the years , in some cases it seems like science is very biased in its views of what it sees and its studies, to the point that it absolutely cannot see past its rigid view. Or say , its so biased in its views that if there were the possibility of anything else , it simply would deny itself the possibility of seeing it . 

Wow, you don't even understand what science is. Science collects evidence and then attempts to explain what caused that evidence. It has no bias at all. That's why it works.

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