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Is there alien tech lying at the bottom of the sea ?


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16 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

There’s liquid salt water on Europa, that in my mind puts it one thermal vent away from housing extremophiles

But they don't just spontaneously show up. They had to evolve from simpler life.

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2 hours ago, astrobeing said:

Wow, you don't even understand what science is. Science collects evidence and then attempts to explain what caused that evidence. It has no bias at all. That's why it works.

Its like the Neuroscientist and the NDE or conciousness, he's so rigid in his studies and knowledge of Neuroscience , that no matter what , he will always say there is a corporeal explanation for it no matter what happens. Although i read about a Neuroscientist that had an NDE and now he believes in them. And he said that he was probably one of the last people that would find himself believing in it , because of his training in Neuroscience. But then again he wrote a book and is probably gaining monetarily so who knows.

Edited by razman
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30 minutes ago, razman said:

Its like the Neuroscientist and the NDE or conciousness, he's so rigid in his studies and knowledge of Neuroscience , that no matter what , he will always say there is a corporeal explanation for it no matter what happens.

So you have no idea what the word "evidence" means?

A heart surgeon regularly had patients telling him that during their operations they felt their soul floating over their bodies in the operation room and they watched the operation take place. The surgeon put an object on the top of the cabinets in the room near the ceiling and told his patients that if they ever feel like they're floating over their bodies that they should look over and see what the object is. After that his no patient ever reported an out of body experience during his operations.

That's how these things work.

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2 hours ago, astrobeing said:

But they don't just spontaneously show up. They had to evolve from simpler life.

And?

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2 hours ago, astrobeing said:

So you have no idea what the word "evidence" means?

A heart surgeon regularly had patients telling him that during their operations they felt their soul floating over their bodies in the operation room and they watched the operation take place. The surgeon put an object on the top of the cabinets in the room near the ceiling and told his patients that if they ever feel like they're floating over their bodies that they should look over and see what the object is. After that his no patient ever reported an out of body experience during his operations.

That's how these things work.

You call that evidence? Thats about as vague as it gets. Lol   Anyway i was demonstrating the meaning of how rigidness in the science community sometimes happens , using the Neuroscientist view from his training as an example ,  Referring to what i said this morning. Not trying to prove that a surgeon stuck something on a cabinet for out of body experiences . The ironic thing is that you talk about someone not knowing what evidence is , then present this vague thing up there , which there probably is no way to verify any of it , just like is the case for NDE's. I remember reading about them putting some coins or numbers on a piece of paper or something on a cabinet or something to see if an out of body being could see them as an experiment, but i dont remember any of the rest of what you said. Is this the same thing you are talking about? Do you remember the source for what you said?

Edited by razman
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5 hours ago, astrobeing said:

Morning , before work. Well i'm not saying that it is a thinking universe , but its possible that the universe is designed ,  or lets say perhaps there was some kind of interference along the way that altered our development , by some intelligence , directed it. Its just speculation , I never claimed that science backed my view

Then i say this earlier and you say back - 

 

5 hours ago, astrobeing said:

Why do you believe things that contradict evidence? That's like living in a fantasy world.

A rather odd statement from someone whose avatar is supposed to depict an ancient work of art of a possible alien in a spaceship.

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On 4/23/2022 at 4:28 AM, joc said:

Thank you!  

I think it is highly unlikely that there are any other planets in the Milky Way Galaxy that have any kind of life forms because:

1.  We do know that the Laws of Physics are not just of this Earth but they apply to the Universe et al.  

     a.   The Earth is 93.455 million miles from the Sun.  

     b.   The Earth has life on it.

     c.   No other planets in our solar system are life inhabitable.

     d.   There is a  formula we know of where life can happen and this is it:

We have not found a plethora of star systems that have planets with the formula for life.  In fact we have only found 258 planetary systems.

Out of the 302 known planets in our galaxy, only 59 are in the Habitable Zone.

There are some who have suggested that life forms could be something other than carbon based.  But Carbon Based life is all we know so, that's what I'm rolling with.

Trillions of Galaxies, each containing billions of stars and I am saying there is only one grain of sand on the entire beach that is multi-colored.  Kind of silly actually isn't it?  But we do 'know' certain things...and we do know that it is quite likely that in this galaxy we are pretty much it.  And we also know that the odds of anything hitting our planet from inter-galactic space is infinitesimal. 

Just a note:  I don't think what I think because of any of the links I posted.  I searched for the links while I was posting to support my original thought.  Turns out I was sort of correct.  Go figure! 

The bottom line is, and this is the bottom line literally, you are correct, we have no idea what's out there. 

Edit:  so the literal bottom line is this edit, and I only add it because I thought if was interesting as I was reading about The Habitable Zone after originally posting the above:

Because our Sun has nurtured life on Earth for nearly 4 billion years, conventional wisdom would suggest that stars like it would be prime candidates in the search for other potentially habitable worlds. G-type yellow stars like our Sun, however, are shorter-lived and less common in our galaxy.

Hiya, just wanted to pick this up.

You may be right, but also you maybe wrong, I hope you are.  I’m unclear where you got the figures from.  To date we have detected 5000 Exo-planets in 3200 separate star systems.  The amount of planets detected that reside in the ‘habitable zone’ of their parent star are thus far a depressingly low 24, less than 0.1%.  However in a galaxy that is estimated to have between 100 to 400 billion stars, that 0.1% translates to a quite staggering 10million worlds in the habitable zone (if my rubbish maths skills are working) and that’s taking the lower estimate of 100million stars.

It is also worth noting that our ability to detect planets is hampered by a number of issues, firstly the methods, either by detecting the wobble of a star caused by a planets gravitational effect on the parent star, a method only really reliable when looking for large Jupiter + sized worlds.  Or by the transiting of a planet past it’s parent star, causing a slight dimming of it.  Something only possible if the star system happens to be side on in relation to our observations.

The other major issue we have, is simply the time it takes to conduct the analysis needed to identify planets.  Many of the newly discovered worlds, were observed years ago, but we’ve only just started analysing the data.

The exciting thing is that the James Webb telescope and the next generation of detectors will start revealing a whole lot more and I think we’ll reach a point where finding stars without planets will become the more extraordinary discovery.

I personally believe that life beyond earth, like Thanos himself, is inevitable.

 

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26 minutes ago, Grey Area said:

Hiya, just wanted to pick this up.

You may be right, but also you maybe wrong, I hope you are.  I’m unclear where you got the figures from.  To date we have detected 5000 Exo-planets in 3200 separate star systems.  The amount of planets detected that reside in the ‘habitable zone’ of their parent star are thus far a depressingly low 24, less than 0.1%.  However in a galaxy that is estimated to have between 100 to 400 billion stars, that 0.1% translates to a quite staggering 10million worlds in the habitable zone (if my rubbish maths skills are working) and that’s taking the lower estimate of 100million stars.

It is also worth noting that our ability to detect planets is hampered by a number of issues, firstly the methods, either by detecting the wobble of a star caused by a planets gravitational effect on the parent star, a method only really reliable when looking for large Jupiter + sized worlds.  Or by the transiting of a planet past it’s parent star, causing a slight dimming of it.  Something only possible if the star system happens to be side on in relation to our observations.

The other major issue we have, is simply the time it takes to conduct the analysis needed to identify planets.  Many of the newly discovered worlds, were observed years ago, but we’ve only just started analysing the data.

The exciting thing is that the James Webb telescope and the next generation of detectors will start revealing a whole lot more and I think we’ll reach a point where finding stars without planets will become the more extraordinary discovery.

I personally believe that life beyond earth, like Thanos himself, is inevitable.

 

So if you take that math to billions and trillions of galaxies , how does the number look? My math isn't the greatest.

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Quote

Out of the 302 known planets in our galaxy, only 59 are in the Habitable Zone.

click on Habitable Zone  That's where the information came from.

 

Quote

I’m unclear where you got the figures from.

@Grey Area

Edited by joc
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On 4/24/2022 at 12:19 PM, joc said:

I do agree with you about the distance between stars.  Then again, it is also  possible that we are the only life form at all in existence in the entire Universe.  Doubtful I think but possible.  And just because a planet has all the necessary ingredients for life to form on it doesn't necessarily mean it will either.  We have yet to initiate any kind of spontaneous eruption of life...so...yeah...

Hi Joc

Even if a planet never evolve life beyond plant life I would think was the exception of the rule and yet isn't that basically did here at one time. We can extrapolate on what we know and speculate outcomes and that changes when new data is discovered. I am alone on this planet but I do not believe I am alone in the universe in the same way as I am surrounded with life. even if I am alone.

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I think if a planet can spontaneously have life erupt on it, then that life will evolve...it will never stop evolving...it cannot.  The only way the life could stop evolving would be for it to end.  Any other thoughts on that from anyone who actually knows?  I am just surmising here. 

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On 4/24/2022 at 6:08 PM, astrobeing said:

If it's here to create life then it's doing a horrible job!

Hi Astro

Is it really doing a horrible job? We exist and the potential for others also exists, does intelligent life have and objective unknown to the people that perceive themselves to be intelligent? Is intelligence something exterior to the physical world that can shape a means to exist in the physical world and interact with it? Did a single cell organism have the intelligence to adapt and modify itself to evolve to be us by intent?

I go with intelligence is based on understanding environment and adapting to survive, animal instinct exists in all life forms because they make more of themselves and are successful because they are motivated by desire to be. That is where we start our lives each and every one of us with the instinct to survive. For you to make your determination of whether it is horrible at doing it's job would mean that either you know what it's intent is or think that intelligence means an exterior other guiding it to be something and still presuming to know what that exterior design intelligence has for a plan.

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Why was he allowed to use government data? And why did the government not allow him to publish the paper? You guys are too trusting.

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4 hours ago, joc said:

click on Habitable Zone  That's where the information came from.

 

@Grey Area

Sorry I should have paid more attention.

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7 hours ago, razman said:

So if you take that math to billions and trillions of galaxies , how does the number look? My math isn't the greatest.

Well then the number increases, but while the numbers we work with are finite that percentage chance will always be less than 100.

But… we need to ask the question, if we work those numbers and reach the conclusion that there must be life somewhere in the universe, how relevant is that calculation if we could never interact, or even detect it?

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4 hours ago, Grey Area said:

Well then the number increases, but while the numbers we work with are finite that percentage chance will always be less than 100.

But… we need to ask the question, if we work those numbers and reach the conclusion that there must be life somewhere in the universe, how relevant is that calculation if we could never interact, or even detect it?

With the large distances in the universe , we may not be able to. Even with some kind of " light" signal , it could be thousands of light years before any could reach. 

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13 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Astro

Is it really doing a horrible job?

Yes, it is. Look at the planets in our solar system. Except for the Earth, each one is an absolute failure to produce life. If the universe exists to create life then why are planets too hot, too cold, or too hostile to support it?

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18 hours ago, razman said:

A rather odd statement from someone whose avatar is supposed to depict an ancient work of art of a possible alien in a spaceship.

And there's yet another thing you don't understand: irony. If you had seen the movie you would also know my user name is ironic.

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13 hours ago, joc said:

I think if a planet can spontaneously have life erupt on it, then that life will evolve...it will never stop evolving...it cannot.  The only way the life could stop evolving would be for it to end. 

If it has the mechanism to evolve. We lucked out that our form of life provided a system to allow mutations without killing off the organism. It's possible that some forms of life don't have this and remain the same until they become extinct.

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1 hour ago, astrobeing said:

Yes, it is. Look at the planets in our solar system. Except for the Earth, each one is an absolute failure to produce life. If the universe exists to create life then why are planets too hot, too cold, or too hostile to support it?

Hi Astro

By assigning that it is doing a job you are inferring 2 things

1 that there is an exterior intelligence that has a plan that you are dissatisfied with or think is lacking.

2 That you know what that intelligences plan is.

You know neither and really it may not be about design in as much as it is chance for which there is not expectation of.

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1 hour ago, astrobeing said:

Yes, it is. Look at the planets in our solar system. Except for the Earth, each one is an absolute failure to produce life. If the universe exists to create life then why are planets too hot, too cold, or too hostile to support it?

Probably because all the planets in our solar system cannot be crammed into the goldilocks zone.

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On 4/25/2022 at 2:19 PM, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

And?

And... how do you get the simple life to appear on a dark cold planet?

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On 4/26/2022 at 10:59 AM, jmccr8 said:

Hi Astro

By assigning that it is doing a job you are inferring 2 things

1 that there is an exterior intelligence that has a plan that you are dissatisfied with or think is lacking.

2 That you know what that intelligences plan is.

You know neither and really it may not be about design in as much as it is chance for which there is not expectation of.

No, razman was inferring that when he said:

Quote

I think one day science will find that the universe is there to create life. Just an opinion though.

And I was responding to it.

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On 4/26/2022 at 11:07 AM, razman said:

Probably because all the planets in our solar system cannot be crammed into the goldilocks zone.

If the universe exists to create life (as you said) then why would it create any worthless planets outside the Goldilock zone? They do nothing to promote life in the solar system.

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43 minutes ago, astrobeing said:

No, razman was inferring that when he said:

And I was responding to it.

Hi Astro

And I responded to you saying it’s doing a crappy job. If it is a job then there is an assumed intelligence behind it. As it stands there is not so there is no requirement for evolved life in the universe and it is a matter of having the right conditions at the right time. Or in other words by chance.

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