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Hell is a Parable for the Womb and Reincarnation


Base12
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A single verse in the Bible forever destroys the false narrative of a 'Psychotic God' that torments the Unsaved for all of infinity...

Psalms 139:15 "My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."

'Lowest parts of the Earth' = Hell

'I was made' = Baby developed in the Womb

And there you have it. Hell has always been about how the Unsaved come back to reap what they have sown.

BTW...

What you have just read is THE most censored teaching in all of Christianity.

Claiming that Reincarnation is unbiblical is the biggest lie ever told.

:yes:

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1 hour ago, Base12 said:

A single verse in the Bible forever destroys the false narrative of a 'Psychotic God' that torments the Unsaved for all of infinity...

Psalms 139:15 "My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."

'Lowest parts of the Earth' = Hell

'I was made' = Baby developed in the Womb

And there you have it. Hell has always been about how the Unsaved come back to reap what they have sown.

BTW...

What you have just read is THE most censored teaching in all of Christianity.

Claiming that Reincarnation is unbiblical is the biggest lie ever told.

:yes:

It's just about God's omniscience. He knows you before you were born, even before the Heavens and Earth were created. Lower parts of Earth is the dividing of the waters, and taking the mud revealed to create man.

:P

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Ummm... 

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Oh yea, so.... ok.

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3 hours ago, Davros of Skaro said:

It's just about God's omniscience. He knows you before you were born, even before the Heavens and Earth were created. Lower parts of Earth is the dividing of the waters, and taking the mud revealed to create man.

:P

Source for the OP's comment.

https://www.bibleref.com/Psalms/139/Psalm-139-15.html

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7 hours ago, Base12 said:

What you have just read is THE most censored teaching in all of Christianity.

Claiming that Reincarnation is unbiblical is the biggest lie ever told.

What is the bigger lie:  The Earth is flat.   or   The Moon is made of green cheese.

The truth is that the Earth is spherically shaped and the Moon has no cheese at all.  Truth is reality.  Belief is fiction.

Any belief involving 'after death' is a lie.  ANY belief...so there! I have spoken. 

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In Matthew 17, The Transfiguration of Christ, there is a curious reference that may point towards some sort of reincarnation. This is when Jesus refers to John the Baptist as being Elijah. I think this may be taken as an example of reincarnation if it is not merely a title of what John is doing on the earth.

Quote

And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

 

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2 hours ago, joc said:

What is the bigger lie:  The Earth is flat.   or   The Moon is made of green cheese.

The truth is that the Earth is spherically shaped and the Moon has no cheese at all.  Truth is reality.  Belief is fiction.

Any belief involving 'after death' is a lie.  ANY belief...so there! I have spoken. 

Love this. 

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7 hours ago, XenoFish said:

That's the problem with these poetic verses where one can add meaning beyond to what's simply said. It's about God's omniscience. He knows every hair on your head type a deal.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+139%3A1-18&version=NRSV

 

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41 minutes ago, Davros of Skaro said:

He knows every hair on your head type a deal.

There aren't many on mine.

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8 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Thanks everyone for visiting and commenting.

I will begin with a quote found in the above link that XenoFish posted...

The expression, "in the depths of the earth," is a poetic term that describes the womb as being just as dark and hidden from human view as the subterranean caverns.

Something I have noticed over the years is that whenever the Bible says something that does not go along with the 'Reincarnation is not Biblical' narrative, it is always brushed off as 'poetry' or some phrase denoting that we should just 'forget what was said' and 'move along'.

No, the verse is not about the Womb being 'dark as a cave'... lol.

Let us now look at a similar verse to see what commentary we get...

Ephesians 4:9 "Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"

What does Ephesians 4:9 mean? | BibleRef.com

Some translators have understood "lower regions" as a reference to hell, or the underworld. The Apostles' Creed speaks of Jesus "descending into hell," based partly on this passage. However, the text does not require this interpretation nor does it make the best sense in this context.

So now we see that 'Lower/Lowest parts of the Earth' can indeed be a reference to Hell, the Underworld, etc.

Look at what else is said...

Paul infers that, if Jesus "ascended," Jesus had to first come to earth.

Bingo!

Jesus first descended into the Lowest Parts of the Earth... in other words... Mary's Womb.

The commentator is stone cold busted.

Hell is a parable for the Womb.

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Base12 said:

Thanks everyone for visiting and commenting.

I will begin with a quote found in the above link that XenoFish posted...

The expression, "in the depths of the earth," is a poetic term that describes the womb as being just as dark and hidden from human view as the subterranean caverns.

Something I have noticed over the years is that whenever the Bible says something that does not go along with the 'Reincarnation is not Biblical' narrative, it is always brushed off as 'poetry' or some phrase denoting that we should just 'forget what was said' and 'move along'.

No, the verse is not about the Womb being 'dark as a cave'... lol.

Let us now look at a similar verse to see what commentary we get...

Ephesians 4:9 "Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"

What does Ephesians 4:9 mean? | BibleRef.com

Some translators have understood "lower regions" as a reference to hell, or the underworld. The Apostles' Creed speaks of Jesus "descending into hell," based partly on this passage. However, the text does not require this interpretation nor does it make the best sense in this context.

So now we see that 'Lower/Lowest parts of the Earth' can indeed be a reference to Hell, the Underworld, etc.

Look at what else is said...

Paul infers that, if Jesus "ascended," Jesus had to first come to earth.

Bingo!

Jesus first descenIf I ascend to heaven, you are there;
    if I make my bed in Sheol, you are there.ded into the Lowest Parts of the Earth... in other words... Mary's Womb.

The commentator is stone cold busted.

Hell is a parable for the Womb.

Then why did a dead, but summoned Samuel come up from the ground?

Psalm 139:8

"If I ascend to heaven, you are there; if I make my bed in Sheol, you are there."

1 Samuel 28:3, :11-15

"3 Now Samuel had died, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in Ramah, his own city. Saul had expelled the mediums and the wizards from the land."

"11 Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" He answered, "Bring up Samuel for me." 12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice; and the woman said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!" 13 The king said to her, "Have no fear; what do you see?" The woman said to Saul, "I see a divine being coming up out of the ground." 14 He said to her, "What is his appearance?" She said, "An old man is coming up; he is wrapped in a robe." So Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground, and did obeisance. 


 15 Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" Saul answered, "I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams; so I have summoned you to tell me what I should do."'

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Davros of Skaro said:

Then why did a dead, but summoned Samuel come up from the ground?

Did he?

The 'summoning' seems a lot like a cold reading with a bit of theatrics.

Not that this would be the first discussion of whether Samuel really visited Saul.

I agree with your take on Psalm 139, however. Well, maybe without the mud :P

Edited by eight bits
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6 minutes ago, eight bits said:

Did he?

The 'summoning' seems a lot like a cold reading with a bit of theatrics.

LOL! To modern standards yes. But that is an old proffesion with the tricks of the trade evident in the story.

6 minutes ago, eight bits said:

Not that this would be the first discussion of whether Samuel really visited Saul.

I can discuss wether,or not an out of phase Kirk spooked Uhura in the Tholian Web. It's the story that counts.

6 minutes ago, eight bits said:

I agree with your take on Psalm 139, however. Well, maybe without the mud :P

Yeah. I think it was the mud on my eyelids about to go to sleep. :sleepy:

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One wonders who was there to take it all down, since so many see it as God's truth, as are so many of the other great Jewish fairytales taken straight up and unleavened.  

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1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

One wonders who was there to take it all down, since so many see it as God's truth, as are so many of the other great Jewish fairytales taken straight up and unleavened.  

The Divine Word and God's Firstborn sees all.

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16 hours ago, Opus Magnus said:

In Matthew 17, The Transfiguration of Christ, there is a curious reference that may point towards some sort of reincarnation. This is when Jesus refers to John the Baptist as being Elijah. I think this may be taken as an example of reincarnation if it is not merely a title of what John is doing on the earth.

You bet. The verses you posted are some of the most obvious examples in the Bible.

You will note that during the Transfiguration, only Jesus morphed into a type of Glorified Body. Moses and Elijah not only kept their original corrupted bodies, but they also did not transform.

I believe the reason is because of what you just posted.

Both Moses and Elijah were to be Reincarnated. That was the whole point of the Transfiguration. Jesus was showing everyone that the two people next to him were coming back and were not ready to enter Heaven just yet. They had more to do down here.

Elijah came back as John the Baptist, while Moses came back as Paul the Apostle. If One were to do a comparison between Paul and Moses, One would find many similarities. The same holds True for John and Elijah. They carried the old personalities over to the new life.

Here Paul talks about how, when he received the Ten Commandments, he died...

Romans 7:9 "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."

Was it just a figure of speech, or was Paul channeling his Past Life as Moses?

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Davros of Skaro said:

Then why did a dead, but summoned Samuel come up from the ground?

There are different views on this. Some believe it really was Samuel, some do not.

Those that do not believe it was Samuel, quote parts of the verses that say things like...

10 hours ago, Davros of Skaro said:

...God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams; so I have summoned you to tell me what I should do."

If God no longer communicates through Prophets, then it was not Samuel, but a Familiar Spirit.

Anyhow, the Bible is clear that the Dead are 'resting' or 'asleep' until Judgement Day.

As to whether Devils or Familiar Spirits sleep, I do not know.

Edited by Base12
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1 hour ago, Base12 said:

You bet. The verses you posted are some of the most obvious examples in the Bible.

You will note that during the Transfiguration, only Jesus morphed into a type of Glorified Body. Moses and Elijah not only kept their original corrupted bodies, but they also did not transform.

I believe the reason is because of what you just posted.

Both Moses and Elijah were to be Reincarnated. That was the whole point of the Transfiguration. Jesus was showing everyone that the two people next to him were coming back and were not ready to enter Heaven just yet. They had more to do down here.

Elijah came back as John the Baptist, while Moses came back as Paul the Apostle. If One were to do a comparison between Paul and Moses, One would find many similarities. The same holds True for John and Elijah. They carried the old personalities over to the new life.

Here Paul talks about how, when he received the Ten Commandments, he died...

Romans 7:9 "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."

Was it just a figure of speech, or was Paul channeling his Past Life as Moses?

The thing about Elijah is that he was never recorded as dying. He was taken in a whirlwind of God and nobody ever saw him again. He gave his strength to his servant Elisha when he left. My guess is that if Moses had reincarnated too, then he was reincarnated as Jesus Christ. One main indication of this is verse 17:2 where it says Jesus's face was shining as the Sun. This is the same thing that happened to Moses when he came off the mountain, and the Israelites put a veil on his face because they were frightened (Exodus 34:29). Paul also gives reference in 2 Corinthians 3:7 that the New Covenant in Christ is the removing of the old veil of the laws of Moses. I guess because Jesus's disciples didn't put a veil on his face like those of Moses did.

I've personally wondered about reincarnation before, and Christianity. That if there was a reason to find Christ and break the cycles of reincarnation by ascension. I thought that afterwards of becoming Christian then you wouldn't be reincarnating the same. Like some sort of transmutation into a more noble substance.

Anyway if they are reincarnating they should reincarnate again as the Two Witnesses before the Apocalypse. It isn't exactly clear who the Two Witnesses are in Revelation, but they might be Moses and Elijah. They are the "two olive trees" and the two lampstands, and "they stand before the Lord of the earth."

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2 hours ago, Base12 said:

There are different views on this. Some believe it really was Samuel, some do not.

Those that do not believe it was Samuel, quote parts of the verses that say things like...

If God no longer communicates through Prophets, then it was not Samuel, but a Familiar Spirit.

Anyhow, the Bible is clear that the Dead are 'resting' or 'asleep' until Judgement Day.

As to whether Devils or Familiar Spirits sleep, I do not know.

Some of the dead make guest appearances.

Matthew 27:52-53

"52 The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53 After his resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many."

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Base12 said:

There are different views on this. Some believe it really was Samuel, some do not.

Those that do not believe it was Samuel, quote parts of the verses that say things like...

And some who do not believe it was Samuel even in the story universe think about why necromancy was forbidden in the first place. While no doubt there are religious reasons (differing opinions about whether "summoning the dead" is possible within such-and-such belief system), and business-of-religion reasons (revenue would be going to free-lance spiritual counselors rather than licensed monopoly vendors of spiritual services), another reason is because inecromancy is a species of fraud. In other words, the prohibition is not more mysterious than prohibitions against in-group murder, theft, indefinite-term slavery, etc. Thou shalt not let rip-off artists dwell amongst you.

As for 1 Samuel 28:11-15, it is not that unusual for a storyteller who is presenting a supernatural event to "play both sides." That is, while the details when read at face value provide ample support for natural explanations for what's happpening, once that is done, the narration continues in a "matter-of-fact" way. Having established that Saul is only hearing a voice (an old man's - as if a woman professional con-artist could not produce that effect) and the medium says that she sees an old man in a robe (while Saul is too upset to look carefully), the story continues on, attributing the speeches to Samuel as if he were there speaking. From Saul's point-of-view that's how it seems, and his POV is how the tale is told.

The resulting literary confection works both ways. For the credulous reader or listener, Saul's foray into the occult does him no good - he would have been better off making a penitential offering via a licensed professional. For the sophisticate, this is the final humilating foolhardy stop in the downfall of a literally God-foresaken Saul before God puts him out of his misery.

The author has no commitment to any particular afterdeath fate. Regardless of how that really works, or how each audience member thinks it works, the moral of the story is (1) when God has it in for you, you're screwed, and (2) you don't want to be Saul in this story.

 

Edited by eight bits
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4 hours ago, eight bits said:

The author has no commitment to any particular afterdeath fate. Regardless of how that really works, or how each audience member thinks it works, the moral of the story is (1) when God has it in for you, you're screwed, and (2) you don't want to be Saul in this story.

A Greek tragedy with Shakespearian overtones.

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The truth as I understand it according to the Bible is that everyone is ultimately screwed, but you can prolong your fate by humbling yourself before the Lord and by doing what is right.

The moral truth as I understand it from Greek Mythology is that the entire universe has been and is in a decline since the beginning of creation.

This universe is just in a downward spiral and it helps to understand that is its fate.

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 Samuel 28:3-20 (KJV):
3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land. 4 And the Philistines gathered themselves together, and came and pitched in Shunem: and Saul gathered all Israel together, and they pitched in Gilboa. 5 And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled. 6 And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. 7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor. 8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee. 9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die? 10 And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing. 11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. 12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. 13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. 14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself. 15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do. 16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy? 17 And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David: 18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day. 19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines. 20 Then Saul fell straightway all along on the earth, and was sore afraid, because of the words of Samuel: and there was no strength in him; for he had eaten no bread all the day, nor all the night.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Opus Magnus said:

The thing about Elijah is that he was never recorded as dying. He was taken in a whirlwind of God and nobody ever saw him again. He gave his strength to his servant Elisha when he left.

Even though this is True, I still believe Jesus when he said...

Matthew 11:14 "And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come."

10 hours ago, Opus Magnus said:

My guess is that if Moses had reincarnated too, then he was reincarnated as Jesus Christ. One main indication of this is verse 17:2 where it says Jesus's face was shining as the Sun. This is the same thing that happened to Moses when he came off the mountain, and the Israelites put a veil on his face because they were frightened (Exodus 34:29). Paul also gives reference in 2 Corinthians 3:7 that the New Covenant in Christ is the removing of the old veil of the laws of Moses. I guess because Jesus's disciples didn't put a veil on his face like those of Moses did.

There are those that believe Jesus Reincarnated over and over.

Note that Satan and Michael disputed over the body of Moses. Perhaps Satan was mad that Moses was coming back as Paul.

10 hours ago, Opus Magnus said:

I've personally wondered about reincarnation before, and Christianity. That if there was a reason to find Christ and break the cycles of reincarnation by ascension. I thought that afterwards of becoming Christian then you wouldn't be reincarnating the same. Like some sort of transmutation into a more noble substance.

That is a good summary of what I believe. The noble substance being the Glorified Body... a sort of 'DNA upgrade'. I want out of here... lol.

10 hours ago, Opus Magnus said:

Anyway if they are reincarnating they should reincarnate again as the Two Witnesses before the Apocalypse. It isn't exactly clear who the Two Witnesses are in Revelation, but they might be Moses and Elijah. They are the "two olive trees" and the two lampstands, and "they stand before the Lord of the earth."

Sure. Many folks believe that Moses and Elijah will come back as the Two Witnesses.

Personally, I am looking at John the Apostle as one. My reasoning is that John wanted to drink of the Cup of Gethsemane and be Baptized with the Baptism of Fire...

Matthew 20:22 "But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?  They say unto him, We are able."

The Baptism of Fire is the Lake of Fire. Christians are not taught that the Lake of Fire is an allegory for the Moment of Conception.

The Cup of Gethsemane is the same as the Golden Cup that the Halot holds...

Revelation 17:4 "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:"

It is the same as the Forbidden Fruit, which is the Zygote. All have partaken BTW.

John will drink it again and come back as one of the Two Witnesses...

Revelation 10:10 "And I took the little book out of the angel’s hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter."

Once John partakes of the Forbidden Fruit, he must come back...

Revelation 10:11 "And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings."

It is literal.

Edited by Base12
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