The Vaccine Mandates proved we have no rights to bodily autonomy

[Grim Reaper 6]

On 5/7/2022 at 9:19 AM, Katniss said:

I don't think you know what tyranny is until you have lived in Russia, North Korea, China. They all have real tyranny.

Great point and right on target, you go girl!

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, Hugh Mungus said:

It is.

I was using Zep's own argument to show that if vaccine mandates were not an attack on bodily autonomy, then neither is roe v wade 

This is weak argument and no matter who commented on by using it here you also endorse it personally. There is a vast difference between the abortion issue and vaccine mandates. Vaccine mandates are based upon how they effect public at large, and how decisions made by one individual does effect the health of others. So actually the vaccine mandates are designed to protect the health of the population of a Nation, and the abortion issue only has implications for the individual and in no way harms or endangers the population of that same Nation.

So while they are both health issues, any responsible government must protect its people in situations that are a National Emergency. So vaccine mandates are designed to protect a Nations population from those who are unable to understand the implications their decisions have on the safety and health of others.

JIMO

[Obviousman]

2 hours ago, psyche101 said:

How do anti vaxers go with overseas travel? 

Do they skip it or take a huge risk? 

I take it that's not seen a a nefarious act?

Correct. Pre-COVID, most countries didn't require specific vaccinations (there were a few that did) but there was advice about what you SHOULD take if going to that country / region.

[zep73]

22 hours ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Isn't overturning roe v wade a state by state issue? Meaning you could just travel/move to another state if you want an abortion? Not much forcing you to carry a baby in that. Inconvenient maybe, but totally voluntary if you stay where they are banned

Does that mean you are against bodily autonomy, when it comes to women and pregnancy, but for it, when it comes to the jab?

Both are pro choice, and I support it in both cases. If my boss demanded me to get a jab, and I didn't want it, he'd cease to be my boss very quickly.

It amazes me how some conservatives fight for their own bodily autonomy, while denying others the same.

Edited May 10, 2022 by zep73

[Grim Reaper 6]

53 minutes ago, zep73 said:

Does that mean you are against bodily autonomy, when it comes to women and pregnancy, but for it, when it comes to the jab?

Both are pro choice, and I support it in both cases. If my boss demanded me to get a jab, and I didn't want it, he'd cease to be my boss very quickly.

It amazes me how some conservatives fight for their own bodily autonomy, while denying others the same.

I think the real question is he Conservative, or on the extreme end of the spectrum!

[Trelane]

I think people in the US don't truly understand how much is controlled. Not just vaccines and such.

Only when it inconveniences them personally do any average Americans get worked up.

 

[Raptor Witness]

The essential premise of Roe was the woman controls her body, not the government.

It’s also a hypocritical ruling, which should apply to prescription medicine and any natural drug.

We’ve locked up millions of Americans for self medicating, which is completely wrong, in light of Roe.

[+Desertrat56]

11 hours ago, Trelane said:

I think people in the US don't truly understand how much is controlled. Not just vaccines and such.

Only when it inconveniences them personally do any average Americans get worked up.

 

Just like everyone in the UK, Canada and Australia; maybe just like everyone on the planet.  

[Trelane]

10 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Just like everyone in the UK, Canada and Australia; maybe just like everyone on the planet.  

Probably. I just see a lot of selective outrage with Americans these days.

[Autochthon1990]

On 5/10/2022 at 6:48 PM, Manwon Lender said:

I think the real question is he Conservative, or on the extreme end of the spectrum!

There's uh, not much of a difference these days. Read my status, if you're still a republican, you've gotta own the crazies that run the party. Course they can just...decide not to be involved in that anymore, but they generally don't. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

14 minutes ago, Autochthon1990 said:

There's uh, not much of a difference these days. Read my status, if you're still a republican, you've gotta own the crazies that run the party. Course they can just...decide not to be involved in that anymore, but they generally don't. 

My point is that while many people claim they are conservatives, their comments show they are actually part of the far right. In my opinion I can still tell the difference, and like you said people do change it’s just not always for the better.

[+Desertrat56]

12 hours ago, Trelane said:

Probably. I just see a lot of selective outrage with Americans these days.

I have seen equally as much from Australians and British and a few Canadians (oh wait, we are all still part of the british empire, even in the U.S. where we replaced parlament and a prime minister with a senate, congress and a president).  Maybe there is some kind of programming that encourages whining/whinging for those related to the secular arm of the Holy Roman Empire.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Desertrat56

[+Desertrat56]

On 5/12/2022 at 12:31 AM, Autochthon1990 said:

There's uh, not much of a difference these days. Read my status, if you're still a republican, you've gotta own the crazies that run the party. Course they can just...decide not to be involved in that anymore, but they generally don't. 

There are plenty of conservatives AND liberals who are NOT on the extreme end of any spectrum.   Labels tend to obfuscate reality.

[Tatetopa]

The OP is  lame.  

We live in a nation and a society that has rules and sets limits on bodily autonomy.  Every nation on the globe has their own rules that govern society and how much autonomy is allowed. Every habitable parcel of land on this planet is claimed by one of those nations, and if you are in their territory, you play by their rules.

It is doubtful that many other countries provide for more autonomy than the US, but it has its limits. Citizens are certainly free to leave the US and settle in another country if they choose as Hugh suggests.  Citizens are free to speak their grievances and possibly change laws under our system. If enough citizens agree, mandates are eliminated, hence more autonomy.

The OP argument is that if all citizens have some limitations on body autonomy, then it is just fine to add additional limitations to some citizens based on gender.   That argument has justified  increasing limitations and imposing additional controls on a number of groups in the past.

Nobody gains more autonomy by limiting the autonomy of others.

 

 

 

[Autochthon1990]

16 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

There are plenty of conservatives AND liberals who are NOT on the extreme end of any spectrum.   Labels tend to obfuscate reality.

I'm afraid conservatives these days either are extreme, or think that the horrors the modern GOP gets up to are worth it if it means their kids won't end up gay and minorities won't steal their stuff...or rather that's how they think that works. 

[+Desertrat56]

1 hour ago, Autochthon1990 said:

I'm afraid conservatives these days either are extreme, or think that the horrors the modern GOP gets up to are worth it if it means their kids won't end up gay and minorities won't steal their stuff...or rather that's how they think that works. 

You need to get a reality check.  Choosing one side or the other, just causes you to be more easily manipulated.  Let it go.  Neither side is worse than the other and you keep saying "conservatives" this and "conservatives" that and it means nothing.

[Autochthon1990]

10 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

You need to get a reality check.  Choosing one side or the other, just causes you to be more easily manipulated.  Let it go.  Neither side is worse than the other and you keep saying "conservatives" this and "conservatives" that and it means nothing.

Well, I mean one side is actively persecuting every minority I can think of and trying to screw over the poor and the downtrodden and one is doing...exactly not that. It's not rocket science which side is the good one, not the perfect flawless 'these guys are the canonical good guys', but the best possible side at the moment. 

I've got a ton of LGBT friends, and they are not safe has long as the GOP has any meaningful power. 

[+Desertrat56]

7 minutes ago, Autochthon1990 said:

Well, I mean one side is actively persecuting every minority I can think of and trying to screw over the poor and the downtrodden and one is doing...exactly not that. It's not rocket science which side is the good one, not the perfect flawless 'these guys are the canonical good guys', but the best possible side at the moment. 

I've got a ton of LGBT friends, and they are not safe has long as the GOP has any meaningful power. 

You think the woke movement that is supposedly perpetrated by the liberals isn't persecution????   Like I said both extremes are bad and if you choose one side you are choosing to be  manipulated.

[Autochthon1990]

4 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

You think the woke movement that is supposedly perpetrated by the liberals isn't persecution????   Like I said both extremes are bad and if you choose one side you are choosing to be  manipulated.

Persecution? No. It can sometimes be stupid, but they're not persecuting anybody. Worst thing that happens is someone gets fired for racist tweets, which...I mean if I started being racist all over Denver it'd only be a matter of time before my ass got fired. 

[preacherman76]

On 5/14/2022 at 8:41 AM, Autochthon1990 said:

I'm afraid conservatives these days either are extreme, or think that the horrors the modern GOP gets up to are worth it if it means their kids won't end up gay and minorities won't steal their stuff...or rather that's how they think that works. 

Well we see you as a insane leftwing radical who has no idea who we really are, and get all your information about us by other leftwing radicals who need to keep you in a constant state of fear.  
 

Turning and keeping you into the little brown shirt authoritarians you are. All, and I mean every little bit of it in the name of victimhood that doesn’t exist. 
 

To each his own I suppose. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by preacherman76

[preacherman76]

Anyhow as for the OP, what’s scary to me is assuming some of these vaccines are even safe. Even our FDA wanted to hide the results of the horrific Pfizer studies. That information needs to be not only known but broadcast. You for damn sure should never make anyone take it. 

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, preacherman76 said:

Anyhow as for the OP, what’s scary to me is assuming some of these vaccines are even safe. Even our FDA wanted to hide the results of the horrific Pfizer studies. That information needs to be not only known but broadcast. You for damn sure should never make anyone take it. 

Your out of date. The crisis is over, millions upon millions have been vaccinated and only to their benefit.

You dragged the chain, let your community down and fear mongered conspiracy theories. You're time has passed and you only look silly at the end of it all. The only long term effects showing up are long covid. You stuffed this one royally. You should be learning from this but it doesn't appear you have. 

[Occult1]

9 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Your out of date. The crisis is over, millions upon millions have been vaccinated and only to their benefit.

The crisis is over because the virus mutated into a milder but more contagious strain, which contaminated even more people and caused herd immunity.

The vaccines may have helped, but how much is really not clear.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Occult1

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Occult1 said:

The crisis is over because the virus mutated into a milder but more contagious strain, which contaminated even more people and caused herd immunity.

The vaccines may have helped, but how much is really not clear.

It's pretty clear that they made the difference. They already had when omicron arrived. Omicron just mildly took care of the anti vaxers. Lucky for them I suppose. 

Those who feared the worst and shirked community care look pretty stupid now. As with the poster I replied to. 

[SHaYap]

*wrong thread*

~

Edited June 3, 2022 by SHaYap