Mark Esper says Trump's refusal to attend Biden's presidential inauguration a final act of petulance

[+Link of Hyrule]

22 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Trump was about 39% at this point in his term. Biden is at 41%. Not a lot but still better than Trump. That's the thing. No matter how bad your president can get, it will still be better than Trump. 

So basically as bad as each other. Except Biden managed to do this with the mainstream media sitting in his pocket singing his praises, Trump had a low rating because the same media turned him into a monster.

 

22 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I can't count how many people I've heard day thank goodness Trump isn't president right now with the war.

I think we are both suffering from an ability to repeat anecdotal information, because I can't count how many people I've heard say they wish Trump was still president and decry how terrible Biden is.

 

22 hours ago, psyche101 said:

He ended a failed war. A war you lost. A war that wasn't necessary, a war that was two decades of wasted money and lives. America's biggest embarassment since Vietnam. It was never going to finish clean. He did what Trump could not. He ended it. I take it you don't realise what a national failure that war was. He did what three presidents before him failed to do. Live with it.

No, it won't fit your right wing paranoid view, bit otherwise the basics are enough to write him into history favourably. 

You conveniently forgot that Trump organised the withdrawal from Afghanistan. If Biden didn't stumble around trying to change Trump's plan, they would have withdrawn on time and it would have been a successful withdrawal. Instead Bumbling Biden screwed it up totally, extended the date of departure, and then bombed a car load of civilian children into smithereens as retaliation for the Taliban attacking America's troops. 

However you wish to describe the withdrawal from Afghanistan, describing it as a success is ridiculous. And saying that this was Biden's initiative is just straight up lying. 

[Golden Duck]

33 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

I think we are both suffering from an ability to repeat anecdotal information, because I can't count how many people I've heard say they wish Trump was still president and decry how terrible Biden is.

You might need to explain how Rupert Murdoch is not mainstream media.

[+Link of Hyrule]

14 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

You might need to explain how Rupert Murdoch is not mainstream media.

Technically it is. But Murdoch is also distrusted by significantly more people than CNN/MSNBC/NYT and the rest. According to a study I read on this forum about two weeks ago (can't recall the source or the thread I was reading at the time), about 40% of Americans trust CNN and about the same percentage trust Fox. But the level of distrust for these same sources is signifcantly worse. Fox is distrusted by about 10% more  people than CNN (30% distrust vs 42% distrust, something like that).

IN saying that, I have often written about "the media" and "the mainstream media". What I usually mean by this is the mainstream left wing media. When a significant portion of the population already distrusts the right wing mainstream news from Rupert Murdoch, it goes without saying that fewer people are going to trust that source. More people still trust CNN and MSNBC and NYT, God only knows why - they are constantly being called out for biased reporting. 

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Paranoid Android said:

So basically as bad as each other. Except Biden managed to do this with the mainstream media sitting in his pocket singing his praises, Trump had a low rating because the same media turned him into a monster.

No, media is slamming Biden too. You are just rather blinkered regarding your sources 

I said they were similar, but the statement stands, he's still doing better than Trump. 

1 hour ago, Paranoid Android said:

I think we are both suffering from an ability to repeat anecdotal information, because I can't count how many people I've heard say they wish Trump was still president and decry how terrible Biden is.

Again, your more right wing. As such I'd say it's the circles you mix in. You often clash with the other Aussies on this s board regarding views and experiences, as such I'd say your not what is considered an average outlook for a typical Aussie.

1 hour ago, Paranoid Android said:

You conveniently forgot that Trump organised the withdrawal from Afghanistan. If Biden didn't stumble around trying to change Trump's plan, they would have withdrawn on time and it would have been a successful withdrawal. Instead Bumbling Biden screwed it up totally, extended the date of departure, and then bombed a car load of civilian children into smithereens as retaliation for the Taliban attacking America's troops. 

You conveniently forgot to mention Trump did not follow through. Biden did what he could not. Made it actually end. He wasn't passing the war onto another president. Talk is cheap. 

There was no way it would end well. Just like Vietnam. Biden is a much better human being and president than Trump ever could be with effort and help. 

1 hour ago, Paranoid Android said:

However you wish to describe the withdrawal from Afghanistan, describing it as a success is ridiculous. And saying that this was Biden's initiative is just straight up lying. 

I didn't say it was his initiative. That's a lie. I said he ended the war, and he did. He took the step Trump couldn't. He proved himself the superior leader. Trump is probably the worst human being to ever lead the country. Live in your fantasy all you like, but it's true. 

[+Link of Hyrule]

26 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

No, media is slamming Biden too. You are just rather blinkered regarding your sources 

I said they were similar, but the statement stands, he's still doing better than Trump. 

They are now, because he's so bad at his job the media couldn't keep polishing the proverbial turd. It is a well known fact that the media has treated Trump and Biden very differently since the very beginning of this whole saga when Trump first waded into politics. 

 

26 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Again, your more right wing. As such I'd say it's the circles you mix in. You often clash with the other Aussies on this s board regarding views and experiences, as such I'd say your not what is considered an average outlook for a typical Aussie.

Better to say we have differences of opinion, and leave it at that I reckon  

 

26 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

You conveniently forgot to mention Trump did not follow through. Biden did what he could not. Made it actually end. He wasn't passing the war onto another president. Talk is cheap. 

There was no way it would end well. Just like Vietnam. Biden is a much better human being and president than Trump ever could be with effort and help. 

I didn't say it was his initiative. That's a lie. I said he ended the war, and he did. He took the step Trump couldn't. He proved himself the superior leader. Trump is probably the worst human being to ever lead the country. Live in your fantasy all you like, but it's true. 

 

Honestly, that emoji is all I really need to demonstrate how I feel about this section. The only reason Trump didn't follow through with the plan was that he lost the election. You are literally rewriting history, saying that Trump "did not follow through" and "Biden did what he could not". He certainly didn't "pass the war onto another president", or "took the step Trump couldn't". Trump lost the election and was not physically able to carry through with his plans.  

Your Trump Derangement Syndrome has you clutching at straws to rewrite history. It would actually be very funny, if it wasn't so tragic. 

[psyche101]

7 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

They are now, because he's so bad at his job the media couldn't keep polishing the proverbial turd. It is a well known fact that the media has treated Trump and Biden very differently since the very beginning of this whole saga when Trump first waded into politics. 

Oh nonsense. Almost straight away media jumped on him over Covid border issues. You have a short memory. 

It's an American thing to hate on any president in case you haven't noticed. 

7 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

Better to say we have differences of opinion, and leave it at that I reckon  

I'll just let the Aussie posters post. That makes the point alone I'd say.

7 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

 

Honestly, that emoji is all I really need to demonstrate how I feel about this section. The only reason Trump didn't follow through with the plan was that he lost the election. You are literally rewriting history, saying that Trump "did not follow through" and "Biden did what he could not". He certainly didn't "pass the war onto another president", or "took the step Trump couldn't". Trump lost the election and was not physically able to carry through with his plans.  

Trump had four years.

As I said. Talk is cheap. 

He could have ended the war. He didn't. He was too busy being a complete ass. 

7 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

Your Trump Derangement Syndrome has you clutching at straws to rewrite history. It would actually be very funny, if it wasn't so tragic. 

Isn't that strange, of say your Trump Sycophant Syndrome exposes enough of your bias to illustrate just how easily he can fool people. He won't be remembered for ending the war. Biden will. 

I didn't spot where you quoted me saying Biden initiated the withdrawal. Or was the just a TSS knee jerk reaction?

[+Link of Hyrule]

1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

Oh nonsense. Almost straight away media jumped on him over Covid border issues. You have a short memory. 

It's an American thing to hate on any president in case you haven't noticed. 

No, they didn't. They totally treated Joe Biden differently to Trump.

 

1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

I'll just let the Aussie posters post. That makes the point alone I'd say.

Trump had four years.

As I said. Talk is cheap. 

He could have ended the war. He didn't. He was too busy being a complete ass. 

Isn't that strange, of say your Trump Sycophant Syndrome exposes enough of your bias to illustrate just how easily he can fool people. He won't be remembered for ending the war. Biden will. 

I didn't spot where you quoted me saying Biden initiated the withdrawal. Or was the just a TSS knee jerk reaction?

This is ridiculous. Honestly, it's so bad I can't even finish this sent.....

[psyche101]

19 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

No, they didn't. They totally treated Joe Biden differently to Trump.

Search the history here alone. The border became an immediate issue, more of Trump's crap to clean up 

19 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

This is ridiculous. Honestly, it's so bad I can't even finish this sent.....

That's the red pill for you. It removes your ability to remain rational. 

History will record Biden making the best decision for the USA in decades. You're a victim of right wing propoganda. 

[Agent0range]

22 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

No, they didn't. They totally treated Joe Biden differently to Trump.

Examples please!  

And here comes the "well here in Australia on the news..." rant comes...

Edited May 18, 2022 by Agent0range

[psyche101]

7 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

Examples please!  

And here comes the "well here in Australia on the news..." rant comes...

Problem being I'm an Aussie too and I call BS. 

[+Link of Hyrule]

33 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Search the history here alone. The border became an immediate issue, more of Trump's crap to clean up 

That's the red pill for you. It removes your ability to remain rational. 

History will record Biden making the best decision for the USA in decades. You're a victim of right wing propoganda. 

What will the search here show me? Most of the right wingers who post anti-Biden stories use alternative media sources, so already I'm filtering out all those threads and confining myself to the mainstream networks like CNN. Those networks have been so totally pro-Biden it's ridiculous. 

 

32 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

Examples please!  

And here comes the "well here in Australia on the news..." rant comes...

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/04/business/joe-biden-jobs-record/index.html

Being just one example. Even the article acknowledges that the growth has more to do with reopening the country (they aren't "new jobs" they are old jobs that are being returned), but it doesn't stop CNN from burying that particular tidbit halfway into the article and leaving the rest of it to praise Joe Biden.

Seriously, how many examples do I need to demonstrate how biased CNN is? Five more? Ten? Ten every month going back to his inauguration in January 2021? Give me a number, otherwise I'm just wasting my time. 

[psyche101]

32 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

What will the search here show me? Most of the right wingers who post anti-Biden stories use alternative media sources, so already I'm filtering out all those threads and confining myself to the mainstream networks like CNN.

That there are plenty of mainstream stories bagging Biden from the start. 

In 2019 CNN said he was a poor choice as a presidential candidate.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/17/opinions/joe-biden-president-2020-zelizer/index.html

 

32 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

Those networks have been so totally pro-Biden it's ridiculous. 

Here's a thread. Based on an MSM article.

32 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/04/business/joe-biden-jobs-record/index.html

Being just one example. Even the article acknowledges that the growth has more to do with reopening the country (they aren't "new jobs" they are old jobs that are being returned), but it doesn't stop CNN from burying that particular tidbit halfway into the article and leaving the rest of it to praise Joe Biden.

And CNN started calling him incompetent at the same time.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/16/politics/joe-biden-afghanistan-border-masks-covid-19/index.html

 

32 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

Seriously, how many examples do I need to demonstrate how biased CNN is? Five more? Ten? Ten every month going back to his inauguration in January 2021? Give me a number, otherwise I'm just wasting my time. 

Doesn't matter, you won't acknowledge it either way.

Americans hate on new presidents. It's just how it goes. With 330 million people, a lot of people will be upset at the outcome. 

Trump's fetish for conspiracy theories didn't help. 

[Golden Duck]

2 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

Most of the right wingers who post anti-Biden stories use alternative media sources, so already I'm filtering out all those threads and confining myself to the mainstream networks like CNN

Murdoch media is now alternative?  The SKY News stable is full of no names?

Is this a rehearsal for open mic night?

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Golden Duck

[+Link of Hyrule]

1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

Doesn't matter, you won't acknowledge it either way.

If that's how you think, I won't even bother replying! 

 

15 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Murdoch media is now alternative?  The SKY News stable is full of no names?

Is this a rehearsal for open mic night?

 

I wasn't replying to you at the time, so I appreciate you may have missed my reply. But within this thread I have already addressed that point:  

7 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

Technically it is. But Murdoch is also distrusted by significantly more people than CNN/MSNBC/NYT and the rest. According to a study I read on this forum about two weeks ago (can't recall the source or the thread I was reading at the time), about 40% of Americans trust CNN and about the same percentage trust Fox. But the level of distrust for these same sources is signifcantly worse. Fox is distrusted by about 10% more  people than CNN (30% distrust vs 42% distrust, something like that).

IN saying that, I have often written about "the media" and "the mainstream media". What I usually mean by this is the mainstream left wing media. When a significant portion of the population already distrusts the right wing mainstream news from Rupert Murdoch, it goes without saying that fewer people are going to trust that source. More people still trust CNN and MSNBC and NYT, God only knows why - they are constantly being called out for biased reporting. 

[Golden Duck]

1 hour ago, Paranoid Android said:

If that's how you think, I won't even bother replying! 

 

I wasn't replying to you at the time, so I appreciate you may have missed my reply. But within this thread I have already addressed that point:  

Meh. Murdoch media is Murdoch media.

It really just sounds like you've found a survey you like the results of.  That's  why you continue to use these labels for rhetorical effect.

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Paranoid Android said:

If that's how you think, I won't even bother replying! 

There's a thread in this section illustrating that you won't. Biden as worst president. If it said the same about Trump it would be well and truly closed by now. 

or did you miss that thread? 

 

BTW, there's a CNN link bagging Biden from 2019. Whilst he was simply a candidate up there.

Edited May 18, 2022 by psyche101

[preacherman76]

On 5/16/2022 at 7:33 PM, Golden Duck said:

Before talking about hyper-inflation and predictions of a depression within the next two quarters, maybe you should learn the definition of those terms.

Alternatively, you could provide source of who you're listening to.

I've only ever commented on the message you deliver.  If you provide you source, I guarantee you I will only comment on the message.

Now it's over to you, you could embarrass me by showing everyone made personal judgements.

I have no desire to embarrass you GD, nor do I take any pleasure in being right about this. I very much hope it all ends up being very wrong. Timing may be a little off, but I’m afraid the overall premise is unavoidable at this point. 
 

There isn’t a single source that will lay this all out for us. Not yet anyway. I derived this from listening to weeks of speeches and discussions. Also watching predictions come to pass in regards to stable coins and the relationship between them and the US government. 

[Agent0range]

8 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

What will the search here show me? Most of the right wingers who post anti-Biden stories use alternative media sources, so already I'm filtering out all those threads and confining myself to the mainstream networks like CNN. Those networks have been so totally pro-Biden it's ridiculous. 

Did you read the article??  You are absolutely ridiculous.  Biden is mentioned three times.  The first is just a FACT about his job numbers.  The second is saying his job numbers are helped because, like you said, they are old jobs coming back.  The third time is talking about his terrible approval rating.  What world are you living in that you can read that article and say it is praising Biden??

[Golden Duck]

8 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

I have no desire to embarrass you GD, nor do I take any pleasure in being right about this. I very much hope it all ends up being very wrong. Timing may be a little off, but I’m afraid the overall premise is unavoidable at this point. 
 

There isn’t a single source that will lay this all out for us. Not yet anyway. I derived this from listening to weeks of speeches and discussions. Also watching predictions come to pass in regards to stable coins and the relationship between them and the US government. 

Hyperinflation is a rate of around 1,000 per cent.

We've seen it in places like Brazil and Zimbabwe.

The US has rates at a 40 year high.

[+Link of Hyrule]

18 hours ago, Agent0range said:

Did you read the article??  You are absolutely ridiculous.  Biden is mentioned three times.  The first is just a FACT about his job numbers.  The second is saying his job numbers are helped because, like you said, they are old jobs coming back.  The third time is talking about his terrible approval rating.  What world are you living in that you can read that article and say it is praising Biden??

That's great, Orange. Now go and tell the 60% of people who only read the headline and therefore all they know about the story is: 

 

Quote

Biden sets first-year record with 6.6 million jobs added

 

Heck, it was six paragraphs, a video clip, and a bar chart before the author even THINKS of mentioning some of the reasons why Biden might have such a high jobs figure. Not even the video clip mentioned the actual reason for the jobs growth.  

[+Link of Hyrule]

22 hours ago, psyche101 said:

BTW, there's a CNN link bagging Biden from 2019. Whilst he was simply a candidate up there.

Of course there is. Biden was never the media's first choice to be democrat candidate. But when he became the chosen one (aka, the one the media wanted to take down Trump) the media treated Biden like the sun shone from his behind. And if it wasn't for the fact that Biden has screwed things up so horribly, the media would still be singing his praises. 

[Tatetopa]

16 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

And if it wasn't for the fact that Biden has screwed things up so horribly, the media would still be singing his praises. 

Aw, its not all bad news.  He got us out of Afghanistan, got you a nuclear submarine, helped get NATO back together in time to aid Ukraine, and we will push for Sweden and Finland to join NATO.  With more arrayed against a diminished Russia,  we will be able to focus more on Asia and China, Congress is just voting on  a bill to start countering Belt and Road initiatives in Africa with alternative development offers. He did get the infrastructure bill through before everything fell apart.

[+Link of Hyrule]

22 hours ago, psyche101 said:

There's a thread in this section illustrating that you won't. Biden as worst president.

I had intended to ignore this, but I think I will address it, in the hope that we can better understand one another. This isn't a scientific experiment where one example is enough to disprove the hypothesis. It's a "balance of probabilities" kind of argument. On the balance of things - is the media more pro-democrat/pro-Biden, or are they pro-Trump/pro-Republican (and in similar vein, are they anti-democrat/anti-Biden or anti-Trump/anti-Republican). 

I think if you take an unbiased look at the media they clearly have a pro-Biden/democrat and anti-Trump/republican agenda that clearly shows through their publications. Having a guest columnist once a month write an op-ed piece that goes against that narrative doesn't make it a balanced and unbiased source. 

 

22 hours ago, psyche101 said:

If it said the same about Trump it would be well and truly closed by now. 

That's possible. Democrats and other lefties can't seem to talk about Trump without frothing at the mouth so it wouldn't surprise me if a thread like that eventually got shut down.

Are you suggesting it would get shut down because there is some kind of pro-Trump/pro-Republican moderation happening on these boards? 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyway, I apologise for two posts in a row, I guess I should be more decisive about whether to post or not   Cheers,

~ Regards, PA

[Golden Duck]

On 5/18/2022 at 9:25 AM, Paranoid Android said:

Technically it is. But Murdoch is also distrusted by significantly more people than CNN/MSNBC/NYT and the rest. According to a study I read on this forum about two weeks ago (can't recall the source or the thread I was reading at the time), about 40% of Americans trust CNN and about the same percentage trust Fox. But the level of distrust for these same sources is signifcantly worse. Fox is distrusted by about 10% more  people than CNN (30% distrust vs 42% distrust, something like that).

IN saying that, I have often written about "the media" and "the mainstream media". What I usually mean by this is the mainstream left wing media. When a significant portion of the population already distrusts the right wing mainstream news from Rupert Murdoch, it goes without saying that fewer people are going to trust that source. More people still trust CNN and MSNBC and NYT, God only knows why - they are constantly being called out for biased reporting. 

Left and Right are obsolete terms anyway.  But I don't see a big difference in the 10 per cent you think is important.

I suspect you use the language you use to claim the role of the underdog.  Trump played up his victimisation.  That's what I suspect is behind Pew's research. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/30/partisan-divides-in-media-trust-widen-driven-by-a-decline-among-republicans/

The media got it wrong with Taj Hilaly, Fraser Anning, and the Disinformation Governance Board.  Knowing that doesn't affect me, simply go find the truth.  However, with Hilaly it was difficult as only one media outlet publish a full transcript of his "uncovered meat" sermon.

 

[psyche101]

3 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

Of course there is. Biden was never the media's first choice to be democrat candidate. But when he became the chosen one (aka, the one the media wanted to take down Trump) the media treated Biden like the sun shone from his behind. And if it wasn't for the fact that Biden has screwed things up so horribly, the media would still be singing his praises. 

Rubbish. You seem to be referring to the "honeymoon" period. He got trampled on very quickly over border issues and the spread of Covid via immigrants. Then it was the war. As soon as decisions were enacted they were criticised. That's just how the media treats president's. Fox was right in Trump corner until his BS became too much near the end.

Give you examples before and after, but none seem to suffice. To be honest, that doesn't surprise me. I don't think anything would be sufficient for you.