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EXPLAINER: 'Neutral' Europe recedes as NATO set to expand


Manwon Lender
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Posted (edited)

BERLIN (AP) — With Finland and Sweden inching closer to applying for NATO membership amid Russia's war in Ukraine, the list of “neutral” or nonaligned countries in Europe appears poised to shrink. “This is the key thing about neutrality: It means different things to different people,” said historian Samuel Kruizinga of the University of Amsterdam. Security concerns over the war have changed the calculus for Finland and Sweden, and caused other traditionally “neutral” countries to rethink what that term really means for them. 

In the link below some countries that have enshrined “neutrality” into their laws or generally considered themselves neutral, the question is now will stay that way. Putin has claimed his invasion of the Ukraine was a response to NATO expansion, well it seems the invasion had the reverse effect. EXPLAINER: 'Neutral' Europe recedes as NATO set to expand (msn.com)

Why is Russia attacking Ukraine? Here are 5 reasons Putin and others have given for the invasion

Putin has criticized NATO for expanding eastward since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991. He has said NATO enlisting nations on Russia's borders represents a provocation, though NATO insists it is a defensive alliance and not a threat to Russia.

Why is Russia attacking Ukraine? Here are 5 reasons Putin and others have given for the invasion (businessinsider.nl)

 

 

Edited by Manwon Lender
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NATO recession from neutrality is exactly Putin's biggest fear since he lives in paranoia of the world being against him. So... lol.

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37 minutes ago, joseraul said:

NATO recession from neutrality is exactly Putin's biggest fear since he lives in paranoia of the world being against him. So... lol.

I agree but his recent actions have caused the very result he didn't want to occur, and that is NATO expansion! Putins miscalculation is going to seriously bite him in the ass, dont know what the idiot was thinking!:yes:

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True. I just hope it doesn't cause rash actions and environmental disasters like for example the nuclear reactors being compromised.

A lot of the west is relying on their poor military capability, old and unreliable technology and the fact that it seems most of Russia's top people seem to be against him. However never underestimate the power of his coercion since he owns state television and the media within his country. And I hope we don't become anti-Russian when we should be anti-Putin. But the more info that keeps coming out it seems his health both mentally and physically is actually compromised and a coup or transition of power is likely. Who that goes to and what that looks like after? I don't know but I hope it's less dangerous.

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2 minutes ago, joseraul said:

True. I just hope it doesn't cause rash actions and environmental disasters like for example the nuclear reactors being compromised.

A lot of the west is relying on their poor military capability, old and unreliable technology and the fact that it seems most of Russia's top people seem to be against him. However never underestimate the power of his coercion since he owns state television and the media within his country. And I hope we don't become anti-Russian when we should be anti-Putin. But the more info that keeps coming out it seems his health both mentally and physically is actually compromised and a coup or transition of power is likely. Who that goes to and what that looks like after? I don't know but I hope it's less dangerous.

I agree I also hope there are no major environmental hazards. When they captured Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant, I was a little concerned but the thing that occurred and the reason they left was because a number of their soldiers sufferd radioactive exposure. This shear stupidity and there is no excuse for that to happened, I was in the US Militaries Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical Corp's for 23 years. But, that the typlical ignorance that most soldiers have of the hazards and its do to lack of training and poor leadership nothing else!!

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Posted (edited)

The dandelion principle in action. 

Go into your yard and kick the crap out of the 10 dandelions.

Next year, you'll have 100 more dandelions.

 

Putin, manifesting his fear through his own action.

He's revealed himself to be far more vile and psychotic than I would have guessed.  I'm most surprised by the seeming unflinching loyalty around him.  But surely, that will not hold indefinitely. 

Perhaps he craves NATO expansion as an excuse to go after Sweden and Finland as well...  he seems nigh on utterly unhinged and suffering from massive hyperbole concerning Russian military potential at this time. 

Edited by quiXilver
fixed wording
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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, quiXilver said:

The dandelion principle in action. 

Go into your yard and kick the crap out of the 10 dandelions.

Next year, you'll have 100 more dandelions.

 

Putin, manifesting his fear through his own action.

He's revealed himself to be far more vile and psychotic than I would have guessed.  I'm most surprised by the seeming unflinching loyalty around him.  But surely, that will not hold indefinitely. 

Perhaps he craves NATO expansion as an excuse to go after Sweden and Finland as well...  he seems nigh on utterly unhinged and suffering from massive hyperbole concerning Russian military potential at this time. 

Great post I enjoyed it very much, I would have given you a liked but my reputation six gun is out bullets!  Well I found a bullet on the floor!:tu:

Edited by Manwon Lender
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12 hours ago, quiXilver said:

The dandelion principle in action. 

Go into your yard and kick the crap out of the 10 dandelions.

Next year, you'll have 100 more dandelions.

 

Putin, manifesting his fear through his own action.

He's revealed himself to be far more vile and psychotic than I would have guessed.  I'm most surprised by the seeming unflinching loyalty around him.  But surely, that will not hold indefinitely. 

Perhaps he craves NATO expansion as an excuse to go after Sweden and Finland as well...  he seems nigh on utterly unhinged and suffering from massive hyperbole concerning Russian military potential at this time. 

In the past I called Putin the most intelligent leader although I never liked him. In fact I always hated him but I had to be fair and call him a master chess player. But, something happened that pushed him to lose focus and act in heist. Maybe he is very ill and wants to get things done in Uraine while he is alive, maybe his mind, reasoning, took a blow...or he wants to leave this world in huge chaos...not really sure about all that but one thing I know, even though I truly hate him, this is not a move old Putin would do in all his sanity. Something does seem fishy.

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'Neutral' Europe? 

As long as Germany keeps buying gas and oil off Russia, Europe aren't neutral, they are helping fund the war on Ukraine. Germany wants to do business in Russia, Italy HAS to do business in Rusia as the £8.2bn a year is needed to pay the capital flight risk to... Germany and France . Hungary are already blocking moves on anything that is anti Russia. 

The EU is  not neutral. They are the problem. And they are slow moving, beauracratic, jingoistic dinosaurs.

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9 minutes ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

'Neutral' Europe? 

As long as Germany keeps buying gas and oil off Russia, Europe aren't neutral, they are helping fund the war on Ukraine. Germany wants to do business in Russia, Italy HAS to do business in Rusia as the £8.2bn a year is needed to pay the capital flight risk to... Germany and France . Hungary are already blocking moves on anything that is anti Russia. 

The EU is  not neutral. They are the problem. And they are slow moving, beauracratic, jingoistic dinosaurs.

well... at least you're not bitter about it.

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13 minutes ago, quiXilver said:

well... at least you're not bitter about it.

I am a little, Ukraine needs more, but it's a long game and the EU is playing their hand v poorly. 

 

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9 minutes ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

I am a little, Ukraine needs more, but it's a long game and the EU is playing their hand v poorly. 

 

Having felt Europe's "unity" on my own skin, I tend to agree with you on this. Way too many calculations are done for selfinterrests as opposed to a united body.

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Unity is mostly illusory.

 

Unity is more akin to a viscous liquid that slides easily in the presence of short-sightedness and greed and seldom remains stable.

Unity takes concerted effort, critical thinking and a bit of altruism to hold varying factors together... and even then, it will be temporary, until a factor changes that introduces slide.

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On 5/16/2022 at 7:25 PM, OpenMindedSceptic said:

I am a little, Ukraine needs more, but it's a long game and the EU is playing their hand v poorly. 

 

no one is stopping individual EU countries from going ahead with their own sanctions, everyone is hidding behind the EU as cover.

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On 5/16/2022 at 7:38 PM, odas said:

Having felt Europe's "unity" on my own skin, I tend to agree with you on this. 

Out of curiosity, what do you mean?

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26 minutes ago, godnodog said:

Out of curiosity, what do you mean?

Back in 1992 to 1995. There was no united European approach to help ending the war in Bosnia. Germany could not do anything because of their past, France with Mitterand activly stoped any US interference against the serbs, UK was calculating too with trying to please serbia with dividing Bosnia in three, and so on and on. Meanwhile, instead of bombing the **** out of Croatia and Bosnia, Milosevic could have been stopped in 1991 when Croatia was attacked first.

Now, we still have no real unity and Ukraine pays the price. Europe still does not have a united approach, every country for themself in this conflict too.

I like the idea of EU, it is the right way to go. But it has to be truly strong and united otherwise it is doomed to fail with a big bang.

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, odas said:

Back in 1992 to 1995. There was no united European approach to help ending the war in Bosnia. Germany could not do anything because of their past, France with Mitterand activly stoped any US interference against the serbs, UK was calculating too with trying to please serbia with dividing Bosnia in three, and so on and on. Meanwhile, instead of bombing the **** out of Croatia and Bosnia, Milosevic could have been stopped in 1991 when Croatia was attacked first.

Now, we still have no real unity and Ukraine pays the price. Europe still does not have a united approach, every country for themself in this conflict too.

I like the idea of EU, it is the right way to go. But it has to be truly strong and united otherwise it is doomed to fail with a big bang.

Well the EU is not a federal state and to be honest EU countries are not ready to give up their sovereignty to one central entity, because it would be impossible to protect what is their perceived own interests when 8t sometimes colides with another's EU member state interests. 

The EU is an transnational cooperation entity, and it's moving slowly towards a more united/unified political approach.

Edited by godnodog
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21 hours ago, godnodog said:

no one is stopping individual EU countries from going ahead with their own sanctions, everyone is hidding behind the EU as cover.

The EU stops individual countries creating their own sanctions. That's how the EU operates. One rule to rule them all. That's why they can't figure out the euro problem. No way to instigate a single inflationary mechanism without upsetting someone. Problem is, the existing mechanism is so flawed that the Southern Med countries always suffer.

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