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The comprehensibility of God


Will Due
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Posted (edited)

 

Can God ever be totally comprehended? Not in my opinion, no. Probably not even in eternity. If you'll live that long.

Can God partially be comprehended? Without a doubt, of course he can. If God created man, then certainly, he'd also be able to provide a way for man to know him.

Of the many places and things that provide insight and comprehension into who and what God is, the most valuable of all in my opinion, is knowing the religious life of Jesus and how he lived it.

 

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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Posted (edited)

God has one irrefutable flaw: He's seems to be satisfied with flawed idiots around him.

Is that because he's an idiot himself, or because idiots make him feel good?
I mean, when I'm with idiots they p!ss me off. I want to be around people with something between their ears!

 

Edit: Oh, now I see it! We're his pets! Like a dog chasing the same stick over and over again.

Edited by zep73
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It's like trying to cram the contents of everything into a teeny tiny monkey brain. You just can't do it. Not even with a really big hammer.

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47 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Can God ever be totally comprehended? Not in my opinion, no. Probably not even in eternity. If you'll live that long.

Can God partially be comprehended? Without a doubt, of course he can. If God created man, then certainly, he'd also be able to provide a way for man to know him.

Of the many places and things that provide insight and comprehension into who and what God is, the most valuable of all in my opinion, is knowing the religious life of Jesus and how he lived it.

 

 

 

I understand you have faith in the scriptures you put your belief in, and I am happy you found something to believe in. But, outside of faith ( This goes for all religious and spiritual beliefs ) how do we know how much of the written word we are taught and study today are factually accurate?

Now this can be left to additional and strong faith in our convictions or we can use both faith and historical documentation to separate as much as possible what is factual and what has been changed by man through the centuries. Above you used the religious life of Jesus and how he lived it as important to your faith.

My question to you is how much of the historical proof of Jesus and his actions are you aware of and do you support the historical evidence of Jesus and the very beginning and foundation of the Christian Religion?

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9 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

My question to you is how much of the historical proof of Jesus and his actions are you aware of and do you support the historical evidence of Jesus and the very beginning and foundation of the Christian Religion?

That's right! I made a thread about that a while back!

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, zep73 said:

God has one irrefutable flaw: He's seems to be satisfied with flawed idiots around him.

Is that because he's an idiot himself, or because idiots make him feel good?
I mean, when I'm with idiots they p!ss me off. I want to be around people with something between their ears!

You make an interesting point Zep, but we are all aware there is no perfect human. So if mankind was born in Gods Image ( All religious and Spiritual Deities) a creator must also be flawed or it’s the deities purpose to surround themselves with the imperfect to first correct their flaws. Zep, to religious people which I am not one of everything is based upon faith. For me if someone has faith that helps them through the day, I am happy for them so long that their beliefs are maintained respectful and forced upon me. 

Edited by Manwon Lender
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1 minute ago, Manwon Lender said:

You make an interesting point Zep, but we are all aware there is no perfect human. So if mankind was born in Gods Image ( All religious and Spiritual Deities) a creator must also be flawed or the it’s a deities purpose to surround themselves with the imperfect to first correct their flaws. Zep, to religious people which I am not one of everything is based upon faith. For me if someone has faith that helps them through the day, I am happy for them so long that their beliefs are maintained respectful and forced upon me. 

Yes, but when you see someone dedicate their lives to a lie, it hurts to watch it. You feel you must at least give them an option!

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Posted (edited)

 

The premise of this thread (at least it's my hope) is not to discuss the factuality of Jesus' existence 2kya, but rather, to discuss how what's written about him, how he lived his religious life, what he taught the people; how that becomes the means for comprehending what and who God is.

 

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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Fresh from reading paradise lost, I’m a fan of the Miltonian conception of God - omniscient and unknowable even to the Angels, playing a long game abiding by rules He Himself set.

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10 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

The premise of this thread (at least it's my hope) is not to discuss the factuality of Jesus' existence 2kya, that he did or did not really exist, but rather, to discuss how, what's written about him, how he lived his religious life, what he taught the people, how that becomes a means for at least partially comprehending what and who God is.

 

 

 

So become just like a fictional character.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

So become just like a fictional character.

 

No.

To learn something that might become a catalyst for comprehending God.

 

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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39 minutes ago, zep73 said:

Yes, but when you see someone dedicate their lives to a lie, it hurts to watch it. You feel you must at least give them an option!

It doesn’t hurt me at all, if they are moral individuals who gain strength through their faith and it helps them deal with life to me that’s a great thing. As an example where I draw the line with any Religion is when they force their beliefs upon others through political means, like with the abortion issue in the United States. This in my opinion is a travesty and it makes me very angry that anything like that is allowed to occur.

However, beyond that I have no problem with with anyones religious beliefs and if their faith works for them Whether their beliefs are false or only partly accurate I am happy for them.

Peace Zep! 

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3 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

It doesn’t hurt me at all, if they are moral individuals who gain strength through their faith and it helps them deal with life to me that’s a great thing. As an example where I draw the line with any Religion is when they force their beliefs upon others through political means, like with the abortion issue in the United States. This in my opinion is a travesty and it makes me very angry that anything like that is allowed to occur.

However, beyond that I have no problem with with anyones religious beliefs and if their faith works for them Whether their beliefs are false or only partly accurate I am happy for them.

Peace Zep! 

I can agree with that, but what if some of them never knew the truth, and would be happier without their faith?

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25 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

The premise of this thread (at least it's my hope) is not to discuss the factuality of Jesus' existence 2kya, that he did or did not really exist, but rather, to discuss how, what's written about him, how he lived his religious life, what he taught the people, how that becomes a means for at least partially comprehending what and who God is.

 

I think it’s impossible not to look at the historical scriptures that proclaim how Christianity began to include the birth of Jesus and his contribution to the Christian Religion today. 

 

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3 minutes ago, zep73 said:

I can agree with that, but what if some of them never knew the truth, and would be happier without their faith?

When we are born we are a blank slate, the subject of gaining faith in anything is personal process. While going through that process people are exposed to both sides of the question and some still choose to follow their chosen faith. No one is born in a bubble, everyone is exposed to outside stimulation so I don’t think anyone chooses a faith based upon only being exposed to a single belief system.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I think it’s impossible not to look at the historical scriptures that proclaim how Christianity began to include the birth of Jesus and his contribution to the Christian Religion today. 

 

 

I know what you're saying. But I think it's possible, if not necessary, to separate one from the other.

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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3 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

When we are born we are a blank slate, the subject of gaining faith in anything is personal process. While going through that process people are exposed to both sides of the question and some still choose to follow their chosen faith. No one is born in a bubble, everyone is exposed to outside stimulation so I don’t think anyone chooses a faith based upon only being exposed to a single belief system.

I love you my friend, but you couldn't be more wrong.

Religion today relies on tradition. That's why the truth is more important than ever.

Jesus is probably a lie, and God is a convenient ancient invention to explain the things we just figured out during the last century.

Mankind needs to kick God out to progress and be happy.

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39 minutes ago, Will Due said:

The premise of this thread (at least it's my hope) is not to discuss the factuality of Jesus' existence 2kya, but rather, to discuss how what's written about him, how he lived his religious life, what he taught the people; how that becomes the means for comprehending what and who God is.

As not one word of the bold above is evidenced as originating from Jesus himself but comes a minimum of 30 years after his death there is NOTHING that can be known about Jesus the man beyond what can be reasonably inferred from his having been a Jew of the 1st century AD. 
 

cormac

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

As not one word of the bold above is evidenced as originating from Jesus himself but comes a minimum of 30 years after his death there is NOTHING that can be known about Jesus the man beyond what can be reasonably inferred from his having been a Jew of the 1st century AD. 
 

cormac

 

No there is no evidence of a lot of things. But there is the evidence of the words of the text itself. I'm trying to focus on what's been described in that text. What's been related about God through the text as it pertains to Jesus and how he lived his religious life. So when it's read that "He who has seen me has seen the Father" an understanding can occur. That Jesus is something like the Father. That God is something like Jesus. A kind and good person. A friend even to so-called sinners. That Jesus's life is a revelation. That the knowledge thereof is a means of comprehending God.

 

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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29 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

I know what you're saying. But I think it's possible, if not necessary, to separate one from the other.

 

 

Will, I understand that you practice a non-mainstream form of Christianity and I am not being critical of your beliefs. So the empirical historical Jesus according to most Christian Scriptures doesn’t apply. But, if you think it’s possible you will have to explain your thoughts on how that can be accomplished, because honestly Will your leading this thread and you must also be able to explain how it’s possible and then take the thread in that direction.

 

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35 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

As not one word of the bold above is evidenced as originating from Jesus himself but comes a minimum of 30 years after his death there is NOTHING that can be known about Jesus the man beyond what can be reasonably inferred from his having been a Jew of the 1st century AD. 
 

cormac

That’s especially true when one considers the fact that even the Dead Sea Scrolls do not mention Jesus directly.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Will Due said:

If God created man, then certainly, he'd also be able to provide a way for man to know him.

I agree, and this is probably one of the main reasons I'm an atheist.

If there was an all powerful god than I feel like it would be self evident and undeniable.

But instead we have hundreds of religions across the world throughout human history. 

An all powerful being would be able to just make it's presence know to everyone, and erase any doubt 

Edited by spartan max2
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1 minute ago, Manwon Lender said:

Will, I understand that you practice a non-mainstream form of Christianity and I am not being critical of your beliefs. So the empirical historical Jesus according to most Christian Scriptures doesn’t apply. But, if you think it’s possible you will have to explain your thoughts on how that can be accomplished, because honestly Will your leading this thread and you must also be able to explain how it’s possible and then take the thread in that direction.

 

Where I'm trying to take this thread is that the Christian Scriptures do apply. In fact, unlike what everyone is probably thinking, when I refer to the knowledge of the religious life of Jesus and how he lived it, I'm referring solely to what is written about him in the Bible. Yes there are perhaps more than a few things written in the Bible that fall under the category of something that has to be "cleaned up" in order to gain a consistent understanding. Things that suggest that God and/or Jesus is evil somehow, for example.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, zep73 said:

I love you my friend, but you couldn't be more wrong.

Religion today relies on tradition. That's why the truth is more important than ever.

Jesus is probably a lie, and God is a convenient ancient invention to explain the things we just figured out during the last century.

Mankind needs to kick God out to progress and be happy.

If this person is your friend why can you except his faith and just be happy for him or her.

I must ask Zep, was your friend sheltered, and never exposed to different beliefs?

Zep, I was raised and Baptized Roman Catholic yet I still walked away from Christianity in my early teens. I just never experienced Christianity like so many others did, I never felt it in my heart. I don’t believe religion or the lack of will by itself allow mankind to progress and be happy.

In reality whether God is a lie or an ancient invention to explain the world and universe around us religion no longer has the ability to control or change scientific facts. Even the Catholics have Priest’s that study the scientific disciplines now, and they except their existence so with that said how does their beliefs that it’s all a gift of God change the fact it exists? 

 

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