The comprehensibility of God

[oslove]

1 hour ago, cormac mac airt said:

Reverse-engineering God from the fact that people exist does not make God real, any more than attempting to do so with Thor would make Thor real. Both are mental constructs with no physical existence. 
 

cormac

 

You are as usual into evasion, no one but no one is talking about the existence of Thor, but the existence of God is repeated in all US coins and bills, "In God We Trust."

[cormac mac airt]

15 minutes ago, oslove said:

 

You are as usual into evasion, no one but no one is talking about the existence of Thor, but the existence of God is repeated in all US coins and bills, "In God We Trust."

No evasion whatsoever, any claim that Thor exists is just as valid as your claim that God exists. It’s just that simple. 
 

A lie repeated often enough doesn’t then become true. 
 

cormac

[XenoFish]

I'm missing something. Either I lack something on a cognitive level or someone else is missing some thing. It's like not getting symbolic language, the use of metaphor, etc.... I just don't get this.

[cormac mac airt]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I'm missing something. Either I lack something on a cognitive level or someone else is missing some thing. It's like not getting symbolic language, the use of metaphor, etc.... I just don't get this.

What is it Xeno? 
 

cormac

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, cormac mac airt said:

What is it Xeno? 
 

cormac

These conversations. I just don't get them anymore. I get that the idea of a god as a stand in. That's easy. Through the use of figurate language, for an emotion, for the idea of something. But all of this has been on the objective level. GOD IS REAL!!!!! or so I've heard. God is this and god is that, I know god exist says the random person on the internet. Yet, they can never prove it. I just get the feeling there is a puzzle piece missing in all of this. When a part of me knows that it's all subjective. It's all just opinions. It's like I'm looking right at it.

It really feels like we're all arguing over a subjective model of reality. 

[cormac mac airt]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

These conversations. I just don't get them anymore. I get that the idea of a god as a stand in. That's easy. Through the use of figurate language, for an emotion, for the idea of something. But all of this has been on the objective level. GOD IS REAL!!!!! or so I've heard. God is this and god is that, I know god exist says the random person on the internet. Yet, they can never prove it. I just get the feeling there is a puzzle piece missing in all of this. When a part of me knows that it's all subjective. It's all just opinions. It's like I'm looking right at it.

It really feels like we're all arguing over a subjective model of reality. 

A lot of people NEED to believe there’s a being looking over them and responsible for the unknown because if not then the universe makes as little sense to them as their place in it. 
 

cormac

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, cormac mac airt said:

A lot of people NEED to believe there’s a being looking over them and responsible for the unknown because if not then the universe makes as little sense to them as their place in it. 
 

cormac

That's true, it is a belief. This belief gives them security. It allows them to figuratively control their little microcosmic existence. That's not what I'm getting at. I think those whom believe see that their belief is entirely personal. However I wonder at what point do they feel this desire to promote their 'truth'? Mostly why? Is it some kind of spiritual/emotional loneliness? 

[oslove]

14 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

No evasion whatsoever, any claim that Thor exists is just as valid as your claim that God exists. It’s just that simple. 
 

A lie repeated often enough doesn’t then become true. 
 

cormac

 

Okay, dear Cormac, in ultimate summation, is there existence or there is no existence.

 Cease and desist from accusing me of lying, that ploy is not going to work as to get me enmeshed in your derailment of the the thread, What is God.

 

Answer the question, in ultimate summation, is there existence or there is no existence.

 

The man will go into another evasion.

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, oslove said:

derailment of the the thread, What is God.

Wrong thread.

[cormac mac airt]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

That's true, it is a belief. This belief gives them security. It allows them to figuratively control their little microcosmic existence. That's not what I'm getting at. I think those whom believe see that their belief is entirely personal. However I wonder at what point do they feel this desire to promote their 'truth'? Mostly why? Is it some kind of spiritual/emotional loneliness? 

I think because of organized religion that they CAN’T understand their belief ISN’T anything more than personal. They have a further need to be validated by others. 
 

cormac

[cormac mac airt]

2 minutes ago, oslove said:

 

Okay, dear Cormac, in ultimate summation, is there existence or there is no existence.

 Cease and desist from accusing me of lying, that ploy is not going to work as to get me enmeshed in your derailment of the the thread, What is God.

 

Answer the question, in ultimate summation, is there existence or there is no existence.

 

The man will go into another evasion.

We exist, there is no evidence that God/a god exists beyond one’s personal belief. 
 

cormac

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, cormac mac airt said:

I think because of organized religion that they CAN’T understand their belief ISN’T anything more than personal. They have a further need to be validated by others. 
 

cormac

I agree. You not only have the emotional aspect but the social aspect as well. People need to belong. Plus I think it also depends on how much psychic (psychological) saturation their beliefs have had. 

[oslove]

And I am telling you all guys here that my knowledge of God's existence is not a belief.

It is founded upon reasoning on our existence that is transient, thereby it implicates a being that is permanent and self-existent.

[oslove]

Okay, dear Cormac and all you his emulators, is it a fact or a belief from you all that you exist, choose between fact or belief.

For myself I know for a fact that I exist.

Tell me, is it also a fact that you guys exist, or it is only a belief?

[XenoFish]

5 minutes ago, oslove said:

And I am telling you all guys here that my knowledge of God's existence is not a belief.

It is founded upon reasoning on our existence that is transient, thereby it implicates a being that is permanent and self-existent.

So you've used reasoning and logic to reinforce and validate what you believe. Till the point where no doubt can take hold. That's what is called a conviction. 

[XenoFish]

Just now, oslove said:

Tell me, is it also a fact that you guys exist, or it is only a belief?

I don't exist. I'm just a figment of your imagination. I am the echo of doubt from deep within the abyss. Boo!

[cormac mac airt]

2 minutes ago, oslove said:

And I am telling you all guys here that my knowledge of God's existence is not a belief.

It is founded upon reasoning on our existence that is transient, thereby it implicates a being that is permanent and self-existent.

Air has more validity that your God. 
 

cormac

[cormac mac airt]

2 minutes ago, oslove said:

Okay, dear Cormac and all you his emulators, is it a fact or a belief from you all that you exist, choose between fact or belief.

For myself I know for a fact that I exist.

Tell me, is it also a fact that you guys exist, or it is only a belief?

That I exist is NOT evidence that a deity exists, it doesn’t work that way. 
 

cormac

[Will Due]

 

You know what's interesting about the proponents of the incomprehensibility of God? It's that somehow, without comprehending it, they know that God is unknowable. 

But they don't know that. They just made it up and relentlessly keep repeating it.

All that it is, is a part of their self-appointed religious mental construct that they incessantly preach and push on anyone who thinks otherwise.

 

 

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Will Due said:

It's that somehow, without comprehending it, they know that God is unknowable. 

It's pretty easy if you actually think about it. You can make many assumptions about who I am, yet none of those assumptions will hold any level of absolute truth. The many ideas of god are assumptions that people make. You, others, popular religions, etc, just ideas. Someone with enough thoughtfulness will readily realize that no idea of god is going to be true. So it can not be know, which is why faith is a thing. To trust in the unknown and unknowable. 

[cormac mac airt]

5 minutes ago, Will Due said:

You know what's interesting about the proponents of the incomprehensibility of God? It's that somehow, without comprehending it, they know that God is unknowable. 

But they don't know that. They just made it up and relentlessly keep repeating it.

All that it is, is a part of their self-appointed religious mental construct that they incessantly preach and push on anyone who thinks otherwise.

I’ll tell you what, tell us ANYTHING that’s definitively factual about “existence “ in 11-dimensional space-time that translates to 4-dimensional (3 + time) comprehension and you just may know what you’re talking about. Otherwise you’re just making crap up in the hopes of sounding intelligent. 
 

cormac

[Will Due]

2 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

I’ll tell you what, tell us ANYTHING that’s definitively factual about “existence “ in 11-dimensional space-time that translates to 4-dimensional (3 + time) comprehension and you just may know what you’re talking about. Otherwise you’re just making crap up in the hopes of sounding intelligent. 
 

cormac

 

11 dimensional space-time is just something you made up cormac. It's just a part of your imagination. A part of your religious mental construct. Which is fine. If it works for you.

But why do you keep preaching it as if you're infallible and pushing it as if everyone has to see it the way you do? 

 

 

[cormac mac airt]

Just now, Will Due said:

11 dimensional space-time is just something you made up cormac. It's just a part of your imagination. A part of your religious mental construct. Which is fine. If it works for you.

But why do you keep preaching it as if you're infallible and pushing it as if everyone has to see it the way you do? 

It’s not something I made up, it’s part of the realm of quantum physics. 
 

Quote

Gradually, Hawking and other physicists have started to realize that supergravity and string theory seem to be two sides of the same coin -- a concept they've come to call M-theory. It's a supremely strange model, with 11 space-time dimensions (most of them so tiny and curled-up that they're undetectable), and populated not only by vibrating strings and particles, but two-dimensional membranes, three-dimensional blobs and multidimensional objects called p-branes.

https://www.cleveland.com/books/2010/09/stephen_hawkings_the_grand_des.html

So now I guess you’re going to claim you know more than physicists? Good luck with that. 
 

cormac

[Will Due]

Just now, cormac mac airt said:

It’s not something I made up, it’s part of the realm of quantum physics. 
 

https://www.cleveland.com/books/2010/09/stephen_hawkings_the_grand_des.html

So now I guess you’re going to claim you know more than physicists? Good luck with that. 
 

cormac

 

Well if it's a "supremely strange model" then most likely it isn't based in reality and just made up. 

Why you've decided to make it a part of your chosen religious construct is interesting and no one's business but your own but preaching it as if it can't be wrong and using it to try to lessen people's faith is frankly an exposition of something about those who oppose the comprehensibility of God that isn't very pretty.

But carry on. You and the others who do the same thing only bring into focus better what is ultimately true.

 

 

[cormac mac airt]

13 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Well if it's a "supremely strange model" then most likely it isn't based in reality and just made up. 

Why you've decided to make it a part of your chosen religious construct is interesting and no one's business but your own but preaching it as if it can't be wrong and using it to try to lessen people's faith is frankly an exposition of something about those who oppose the comprehensibility of God that isn't very pretty.

But carry on. You and the others who do the same thing only bring into focus better what is ultimately true.

It’s only supremely strange in the sense that it doesn’t conform to the normal understanding of 4-dimensional space-time. 
 

That it goes so far beyond your expectations of comprehending shows how limited your mindset really is. Thanks for letting us know that. 
 

cormac