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The comprehensibility of God


Will Due
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6 minutes ago, Piney said:

Can you read Hindi or Sogdian?

Show me the genetic evidence that I'm a member of something called the "Red Race" and not genetically the same as the Manchu and Northeast Koreans.:rolleyes:

 

I thought so. You just made it all up. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

I thought so. You just made it all up. 

 

 

Like Sadler threw together the Urantia.

All you have to do is read Ashoka's sayings. I don't have to lie. The Biblical Jesus debunks himself. As with Ura anus book.

Then you can show me the proof the Jews convicted Jesus, the census took place and the massacre of innocents happened. Einstein is wrong, there was a volcano in Kentucky during the Pleistocene and the Blackfeet lived in the Northwest.

I don't have to defend lies like you do......but you never did.

There is a whole thread where Cormac and I debunked all the science in your book. You never gave us one proof we were wrong or lying.

So I

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2 hours ago, eight bits said:

This is a very hard point to get across to "the guild." As you know, the majority among them believe there is a "sayings collection," Q, which is an "independent source" for the teachings of Jesus. The collection is hypothetical, nobody has ever seen any actual copy. The sayings from Q are supposedly found in Matthew and Luke, where they are attributed to Jesus.

What's hard to get across is the idea that fine, there could well have been a sayings collection, but one in which the sayings aren't attributed to Jesus. Of course, if so, then it's not such a great mystery why there wouldn't be any copies of such a collection any more.

What's especially frustrating is that there's very little attributed to Jesus that's actually original with him. Why would anybody expect these sayings to be different?

Well, it's Jesus, man. He wouldn't copy off of his neighbor's paper. (Maybe not Jesus, but Matthew and Luke sure did.)

It was probably a Therapeut book which came out of Alexandria and attributed to the Greek Buddha or Ashoka. That's why it's not around anymore.

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7 minutes ago, Piney said:

Like Sadler threw together the Urantia.

All you have to do is read Ashoka's sayings. I don't have to lie. The Biblical Jesus debunks himself. As with Ura anus book.

Then you can show me the proof the Jews convicted Jesus, the census took place and the massacre of innocents happened. Einstein is wrong, there was a volcano in Kentucky during the Pleistocene and the Blackfeet lived in the Northwest.

I don't have to defend lies like you do......but you never did.

There is a whole thread where Cormac and I debunked all the science in your book. You never gave us one proof we were wrong or lying.

So I

 

"Word for word" yes, you were lying. You're just a lying dog-faced pony soldier. :lol:

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

"Word for word" yes, you were lying. You're just a lying dog-faced pony soldier. :lol:

 

 

The Bukkyo Dendo Kyokai prints a English version of Buddha's teachings.. You will find them throughout.

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6 hours ago, Piney said:

The teachings in Matthew were ripped directly from Greco-Buddhist writings spread by Ashoka's followers. Especially the Beatitudes, which were plagiarized word for word.

@Manwon Lender

Thanks for inviting me to this conversation Piney I really appreciate it my friend, I will try to keep up with you guys!:tu:

First let me say my knowledge concerning Ashoka is not as broad as yours and @eight bits and comparisons of the book of Mathew are unknown to me but here is what I do know, sorry if this takes the conversation off it’s current track!

While the early part of Ashoka’s reign was apparently quite bloodthirsty, he became a follower of the Buddha’s teachings after his conquest of Kalinga. According to a contemporary text, the Edicts of Ashoka, Ashoka converted to  Buddhism because he “felt remorse on account of the conquest of Kalinga because, during the subjugation of a previously unconquered country and people. Which resulted in the slaughter, death, and taking away people from this homeland was an unnecessarily terrible thing common in all wars!

Because of this he created what is now known as the Edicts of Ashoka which consist of 33 edicts inscribed upon tall stone pillars! They were kept in public places and along trade routes so that the maximum number of people would read them. More than religious discourses, they talk about the moral duties of the people, how to conduct life, Ashoka’s desire to be a good and benevolent ruler, and Ashoka’s work towards this end. If anyone is interested in reading this edicts they can be found below translated in English.

The Edicts of Ashoka the Great: https://www.worldhistory.org/Edicts_of_Ashoka/

I am aware though that Faiths, cultures, and customs bounce off of one another and are combine with one another this is a process known as syncretism! For instance the following archeological discover which is related to this conversation clearly shows what is meant by syncretism! With this said it’s interesting to consider Why is there a Christian gravestone in Central Asia with the Chinese Zodiac year on it and below I will discuss this further!

In what is now Kyrgyzstan in Central Asia, there sits an ancient Christian cemetery, its gravestones are marked with Nestorian crosses: a cross overlaid on a lotus blossom. The epitaph on one reads, "This is the grave of Jeremiah, the believer." The gravestone gives the year of Jeremiah's death, but then it also says, "the year of the sheep", referencing the twelve-animal cycle of the Chinese Zodiac.

DEBDDFE4-6B96-4312-AD62-C421784C472B.png.fd6c565bba31da66821741ed48828b39.png

Silk, spices, and diseases weren't the only things carried along the Silk Road by nomadic merchants who carried philosophies and faiths along with them too. Buddhism and Christianity traveled along trade routes as surely as lapis, pepper, and plague and they changed and adapted the cultures they encountered. As a Daoist might say, however, just as water changes its shape to fit the vessel, so too do faiths and ideologies change to fit the shapes and contexts of the cultures that adopt them.

The newly formed Christian Church of the East did not use Greek or Latin in its liturgy, but instead rendered the Gospels in Syriac, a Semitic language closely related to Aramaic. Many of these Syriac-speaking Christians were Nestorians, a branch of Christianity branded as heresy which was out of line with accepted teachings of the times by both the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches. Nestorians held that Jesus Christ was composed of distinct human and divine natures and this wasn’t excepted then and even now!

Even before the Council of Ephesus in 431 CE, when Nestorianism was deemed heretical, Christians in Asia and Asia Minor drew religious inspiration from the other faiths that surrounded them. For example, early Christian ascetics were influenced by the self-denying practices of  the Jewish, Hindu, and Buddhist philosophies and some of these early Christians spent many years in seclusion like members of the faiths mentioned previously which wasn’t a common Christian practice of that time! It is thought that One such Christian St. Simeon Stylites, spent 37 years living by himself atop a pillar in Syria, I think there little doubt his butt must have been very flat and certainly very sore!:lol:

Sometime in 781 CE, Timothy I, the Patriarch of the Christian Church of the East, oversaw the establishment of a church center in Tibet and began his leadership of the Church of the Eastern Christian practices! At this this same time Chinese Nestorians in Chang'ans imperial capital of the Tang Empire, put up a nine-foot-tall limestone monument called the Nestorian Stele which celebrated 150 years of Christianity in China.

D0FBBF04-1734-4C15-9B26-05A73F29BA66.thumb.png.39c5486b84a15f5c5225cc73b5f6e1d0.png

This monument describes Christ in Buddhist language fixed to the extent of the Eight Boundaries [the Eight Consciousnesses of Mahayana Buddhism], thus completing the truth and freeing it from dross [worthlessness]. This is where the gate of the three constant principles [impermanence, suffering, and nonself], introducing life and destroying death.

This first combined Buddhist and Christian beliefs and principles to my knowledge which had a dramatic effect on Christianity first in the eastern cultures and then as tile passed around the world!

Hope this makes sense to you guys that is all I have time for right now, to be continued!:tu:

 

 

 

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Curious, about the claim of a volcano in Kentucky. There was, of course, the great eruption of Sugarloaf Mountain in Rowan County in January 1904.  Turns out it was clouds of smoke billowing from a huge moonshine operation.....

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54 minutes ago, Piney said:

The Bukkyo Dendo Kyokai prints a English version of Buddha's teachings.. You will find them throughout.

 

The Beatitudes? Word for word?

Oh but now it's the Buddha's teachings. :lol:

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

Show us these writings spread by Ashoka's followers which were plagiarized work for word.

 

 

They weren’t plagiarized by Ashoka’s followers Will they were plagiarized by early Christians! Here is something for you to read, without an understanding of the edicts by Ashoka, which is where it began you will not be able to keep with the conversation!

The Edicts of Ashoka the Great: https://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/ashoka.html

It’s very important that you understand that I don’t just share information from my online library author just anyone my friend, so please read the text I have supplied as you have time!:tu:

 

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On 6/8/2022 at 4:50 AM, XenoFish said:

Strange that it required a blood sacrifice to correct something, when God literal spoke the universe into existence.

It didn’t that was a symbolism and nothing else!

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43 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

They weren’t plagiarized by Ashoka’s followers Will they were plagiarized by early Christians! 

 

I got that part Manwon. But @Piney said or inferred that the Beatitudes as recorded in the Bible were plagiarized word for word from something Ashoka wrote which his followers spread around. Presuming that's how the early Christian writers found them and then plagiarized them, again, word for word and put it in the Bible.

So regarding the Beatitudes, where are these writings of Ashoka that say word for word what the Bible says?

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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What one has to contend with in this thread is the incomprehensibility of people arguing incomprehensively either for or against whatever theosophical conundrum they either are or are not in distress over.

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1 hour ago, Will Due said:

 

I got that part Manwon. But @Piney said or inferred that the Beatitudes as recorded in the Bible were plagiarized word for word from something Ashoka wrote which his followers spread around. Presuming that's how the early Christian writers found them and then plagiarized them, again, word for word and put it in the Bible.

So regarding the Beatitudes, where are these writings of Ashoka that say word for word what the Bible says?

 

 

The written words of the great king Ashoka are in the Edicts of Ashoka that l already proved you. It’s appears you may not have read the information in the link I provide, so maybe you don’t have it my friend! If you ask me a question and I give you material to read and you don’t do it, asking me something is kind of pointless my friend! But. I will try to assist you further anyway!

First let me say something I think must be clearly understood, @Piney may at times joke around with people. However, he does have an academic background and he doesn’t lie, but like anyone else he can make mistakes! Yet from my experience when that occurs and he realizes it or it’s brought to his attention he will apologize like the up standup guy he really is!

Hello Will, to my knowledge there are many, including Scholars who also believe that to be true and some are not rewriting those portions of the scriptures however, when they teach them they rewords passages from the Beatitudes. I will prove some examples of what I am talking about, but please keep this in mind, I am not academically inclined at all like Piney is but I will tell you what I know about the subject!

The Sermon on the Mount also known as the Beatitudes (Matthew 5) is the most famous sermon preached by Jesus, the main character of the New Testament: But historians have always known this sermon amounts to little more than a watered down version of sayings well known from ancient Sanskrit and Hinduism. Much of it sounds exactly like the Dharma a cluster of primitive sayings which pre-dates Jesus by at least 300 years: https://atheistmax.wordpress.com/2015/11/19/jesus-stole-his-best-speech/

Stephen M. Miller, is a Award-Winning, Bestselling Christian Author who also teaches biblical studies. You may want to read through his blogs because he talks about this subject: Steve’s Beatitudes, plagiarizing Jesus: https://stephenmillerbooks.com/steves-beatitudes-plagiarizing-jesus/

Above is a start for you Will, along with the previous link and information I supplied! No one said this would easy, what you need to do is open your Bible and turn to Jesus most famous Sermon the Sermon at the Temple Mount and compare it word for word to the edicts of King Ashova and your question will be answered my friend! :tu:

Peace Will!

 

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15 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

What one has to contend with in this thread is the incomprehensibility of people arguing incomprehensively either for or against whatever theosophical conundrum they either are or are not in distress over.

There is certainly some of that, but for myself only the quality of the members involved in this thread allow# me to overlook the nonsense! 

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21 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

The written words of the great king Ashoka are in the Edicts of Ashoka that l already proved you. It’s appears you may not have read the information in the link I provide, so maybe you don’t have it my friend! If you ask me a question and I give you material to read and you don’t do it, asking me something is kind of pointless my friend! But. I will try to assist you further anyway!

First let me say something I think must be clearly understood, @Piney may at times joke around with people. However, he does have an academic background and he doesn’t lie, but like anyone else he can make mistakes! Yet from my experience when that occurs and he realizes it or it’s brought to his attention he will apologize like the up standup guy he really is!

Hello Will, to my knowledge there are many, including Scholars who also believe that to be true and some are not rewriting those portions of the scriptures however, when they teach them they rewords passages from the Beatitudes. I will prove some examples of what I am talking about, but please keep this in mind, I am not academically inclined at all like Piney is but I will tell you what I know about the subject!

The Sermon on the Mount also known as the Beatitudes (Matthew 5) is the most famous sermon preached by Jesus, the main character of the New Testament: But historians have always known this sermon amounts to little more than a watered down version of sayings well known from ancient Sanskrit and Hinduism. Much of it sounds exactly like the Dharma a cluster of primitive sayings which pre-dates Jesus by at least 300 years: https://atheistmax.wordpress.com/2015/11/19/jesus-stole-his-best-speech/

Stephen M. Miller, is a Award-Winning, Bestselling Christian Author who also teaches biblical studies. You may want to read through his blogs because he talks about this subject: Steve’s Beatitudes, plagiarizing Jesus: https://stephenmillerbooks.com/steves-beatitudes-plagiarizing-jesus/

Above is a start for you Will, along with the previous link and information I supplied! No one said this would easy, what you need to do is open your Bible and turn to Jesus most famous Sermon the Sermon at the Temple Mount and compare it word for word to the edicts of King Ashova and your question will be answered my friend! :tu:

Peace Will!

 

 

Reverence and lowliness; contentment and gratitude…this is a great blessing.” – Dharma (300 BCE)

“Blessed are the poor in spirit…” – JESUS (Matthew 5)


“To be long suffering and meek; to associate with the tranquil…this is a great blessing.” – The Dharma (300 BCE)

“Blessed are the meek….”
“Blessed are they who mourn, for they shall be comforted.” – JESUS (Matthew 5)


“To bestow alms and live righteously; to give help to the kindred… this is a great blessing.” – Dharma (300 BCE)

“Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice…
“Blessed are the peacemakers..”
“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.” – JESUS (Matthew 5)


“Self-restraint and purity; the knowledge of the Noble Truths… this is a great blessing.” – Dharma (300 BCE)

“Blessed are the clean of heart, for they shall see Truth.” – JESUS (Matthew 5)

More of the wisdom of the Dharma:

“To support father and mother; to cherish spouse and child; to follow a peaceful calling —this is a great blessing.”

“To dwell in the station befitting your condition; to consider the effect of your deeds; to guide the behavior aright —this is a great blessing.”

“Much insight and education; self control and pleasant speech, and whatever word be well spoken —this is a great blessing.”
– Dharma (500 BCE)

________________________________

 

Not exactly word for word but alright, in the spirit,  they say.the same thing more or less.

But what's interesting about these kinds of things are the similarities that point to a common source. There's something universal about it. Something entirely natural. Those kind of statements are the furthest thing from fantasy. Reality on steroids. Comprehensibility to the max.

 

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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56 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Reverence and lowliness; contentment and gratitude…this is a great blessing.” – Dharma (300 BCE)

“Blessed are the poor in spirit…” – JESUS (Matthew 5)


“To be long suffering and meek; to associate with the tranquil…this is a great blessing.” – The Dharma (300 BCE)

“Blessed are the meek….”
“Blessed are they who mourn, for they shall be comforted.” – JESUS (Matthew 5)


“To bestow alms and live righteously; to give help to the kindred… this is a great blessing.” – Dharma (300 BCE)

“Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice…
“Blessed are the peacemakers..”
“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.” – JESUS (Matthew 5)


“Self-restraint and purity; the knowledge of the Noble Truths… this is a great blessing.” – Dharma (300 BCE)

“Blessed are the clean of heart, for they shall see Truth.” – JESUS (Matthew 5)

More of the wisdom of the Dharma:

“To support father and mother; to cherish spouse and child; to follow a peaceful calling —this is a great blessing.”

“To dwell in the station befitting your condition; to consider the effect of your deeds; to guide the behavior aright —this is a great blessing.”

“Much insight and education; self control and pleasant speech, and whatever word be well spoken —this is a great blessing.”
– Dharma (500 BCE)

________________________________

 

Not exactly word for word but alright, in the spirit,  they say.the same thing more or less.

But what's interesting about these kinds of things are the similarities that point to a common source. There's something universal about it. Something entirely natural. Those kind of statements are the furthest thing from fantasy. Reality on steroids. Comprehensibility to the max.

 

 

 

Will I agree with you about the comparison, and the more you actually research this subject it starts becoming very clear that whoever wrote the many texts as outline in the Bible actually did plagiarized Buddhist scriptures and that the founding of Christianity along with the foundation principles in Christianity are while not completely an off shoot of Buddhism and certainly not the other way around!

Now Will even with at said, it changes nothing for Christians worldwide because one’s faith is all that’s important and nothing else!

Peace my Christian Brother 

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3 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

Reverence and lowliness; contentment and gratitude…this is a great blessing.” – Dharma (300 BCE)

“Blessed are the poor in spirit…” – JESUS (Matthew 5)


“To be long suffering and meek; to associate with the tranquil…this is a great blessing.” – The Dharma (300 BCE)

“Blessed are the meek….”
“Blessed are they who mourn, for they shall be comforted.” – JESUS (Matthew 5)


“To bestow alms and live righteously; to give help to the kindred… this is a great blessing.” – Dharma (300 BCE)

“Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice…
“Blessed are the peacemakers..”
“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.” – JESUS (Matthew 5)


“Self-restraint and purity; the knowledge of the Noble Truths… this is a great blessing.” – Dharma (300 BCE)

“Blessed are the clean of heart, for they shall see Truth.” – JESUS (Matthew 5)

More of the wisdom of the Dharma:

“To support father and mother; to cherish spouse and child; to follow a peaceful calling —this is a great blessing.”

“To dwell in the station befitting your condition; to consider the effect of your deeds; to guide the behavior aright —this is a great blessing.”

“Much insight and education; self control and pleasant speech, and whatever word be well spoken —this is a great blessing.”
– Dharma (500 BCE)

________________________________

 

Not exactly word for word but alright, in the spirit,  they say.the same thing more or less.

But what's interesting about these kinds of things are the similarities that point to a common source. There's something universal about it. Something entirely natural. Those kind of statements are the furthest thing from fantasy. Reality on steroids. Comprehensibility to the max.

 

 

 

Idea for idea is more what I meant. 

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8 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

They weren’t plagiarized by Ashoka’s followers Will they were plagiarized by early Christians! Here is something for you to read, without an understanding of the edicts by Ashoka, which is where it began you will not be able to keep with the conversation!

The Edicts of Ashoka the Great: https://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/ashoka.html

It’s very important that you understand that I don’t just share information from my online library author just anyone my friend, so please read the text I have supplied as you have time!:tu:

 

I'm working from the wifes company tablets and haven't learned to cut and paste links.....if these things even do...so thanks.

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1 hour ago, Piney said:

I'm working from the wifes company tablets and haven't learned to cut and paste links.....if these things even do...so thanks.

Your very welcome my friend, I just hope my comments are up to your expectations! Some of the subject matter I am familiar with and some I am studying as time permits.

Oh and by the way when you can check out the New Apple IPAD AIR, 4th Generation the limited AI functions attached to the voice recognition dictation function is absolutely fantastic and it works very very well. I use it all the time it’s so much easier to speak and stay focused than typing for me anyway. Last, Christmas the PX at Camp Humphries and Apple  placed these little darlings on a special sale, the sale was for the maxed out version with a 10.5 size screen and 256 GB of memory.

 But best part of all was only cost $525 dollars which was great considering that the normal cost of this model was approximately $780 dollars and when you add the fact that the PX charges no tax it was impossible to pass up, so my wife bought it for me for our anniversary which is 31 December 1986. You know that’s a great day to get married to because the IRS allows the couple to file their taxes jointly for the entire preceding year and that big tax return pays for pay many things when your newly married!

But, I appreciate the fact that you asked me to join the conversation means a lot to me my friend .:tu:

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11 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

There is certainly some of that, but for myself only the quality of the members involved in this thread allow# me to overlook the nonsense! 

Thus, is life.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/4/2022 at 10:22 AM, Will Due said:

The premise of this thread (at least it's my hope) is not to discuss the factuality of Jesus' existence 2kya, but rather, to discuss how what's written about him, how he lived his religious life, what he taught the people; how that becomes the means for comprehending what and who God is.

Dear Will, this is embarrassing, but what is the meaning of this 'word' 2kya?

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1 minute ago, oslove said:

Dear Will, this is embarrassing, but what is the meaning of this 'word' 2kya?

2

k=thousand

ya=years ago

cormac

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On 6/4/2022 at 8:41 AM, Will Due said:

Of the many places and things that provide insight and comprehension into who and what God is, the most valuable of all in my opinion, is knowing the religious life of Jesus and how he lived it.

 

What about you reasoning from the fact that you and I exist for a time and then we die, I think you will come to comprehend what is God - without revelations in the Bible, though I am not saying that the Bible should be excluded from your search for a comprehesible God - for it contains a lot of reasoning from the people who wrote in the Bible.

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15 minutes ago, oslove said:

 

What about you reasoning from the fact that you and I exist for a time and then we die, I think you will come to comprehend what is God - without revelations in the Bible, though I am not saying that the Bible should be excluded from your search for a comprehesible God - for it contains a lot of reasoning from the people who wrote in the Bible.

Reverse-engineering God from the fact that people exist does not make God real, any more than attempting to do so with Thor would make Thor real. Both are mental constructs with no physical existence. 
 

cormac

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