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Jan 6 public hearings Live


spartan max2
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

Me? Intimidate YOU? I just shared what I believe,  you chose to use confrontational language like "you would be wise not to say more".  As it is,  the fact is the government removed our right to protest the lock down laws,  but the exact same government allowed BLM protests literally a week earlier under the same threat levels. 

Rights aren't rights if the government can take them away!

You declared you were entering your latest echo chamber when you said "you wouldn't say any more in the matter."  I was merely agreeing how wise that course of conduct would appear.

The UN Treaties are in place as the Acts of Parliament by which they were implemented have not been repealed.

Edited by Golden Duck
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8 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

I'm talking about America. George Floyd's murderer is in gaol. So is Kim Potter. Until he served his time,  Mohamed Noor was also behind bars.  

The vast vast majority of police who have acted inappropriately have been held accountable. 

Something tells me we have inbuilt assumptions in our world views that will stop us from agreeing. Best wishes, 

~ Regards,  PA

I disagree with the bolded comments above, because of the fact that you did not grow up in the United States..This makes you have the view you do, it’s not a dig on you personally, it’s only a lack of experience. I think based upon my experience that the majority of the US Police Officers try their best under very difficult circumstances to do the right thing. But, just like our soldiers that were under extremely stressful situations in Iraq, Syria and once upon time Afghanistan depending upon geographic location  a Police Officers can also be exposed to tremendous stress.

When this occurs in either cases very bad things can occur if there isn’t a strong influence that keeps thing straight. Yet, another fact that certainly does effect how Police respond is also based upon location.Those who work in large cities in lower economic areas see more and experience more negative situations and that can give someone a jaded out look. I know some people are not going to agree with this but based upon my experience the state a Police Officer is located in can have an effect on how ethnic minorities are treated. Because there are those individuals who use profiling based upon Socioeconomics and in extreme cases there are still Police Officer who still use ethnic and racial profiling. 

Now I am a White Anglow Saxon, however even with said I have personally experienced Profiling. Throughout the cultural revolution in the United States 1960-1970, I was a long haired hippie. During the 1970s when involved in the revolution, you could be a White make and sill be profiled just because of the way you looked and that was my personal only experience in life with profiling by the Police. Well then in 1978, I decided that I was going to join the US Military, so I cut hair and moved on! By 1984 I was a Staff Sergeant and I was Stationed at Ft. Stewart. Georgia.

I was a Squad Leader had 8 soldiers that worked for me, one afternoon at lunch time I got from one if soldiers who had been stopped and arrested while visiting a friend and ha was African American.  Well I told him to hold tight that I was route to location which was Ludowici, Georgia, which was approximately 15 miles from Hinesville where Ft. Stewart located. I get there walk in and ask to whoever was in charge and that ‘I wanted to speak to ly soldier. Guy tells me to sit down, well I an not patience at so after 30 minutes I told the Officer Desk that I was going leave and ‘I would be back directly with Military Police. I did reach the dam door when this Fat b****** in charge appeared from a room somewhere.

I ask to him to see my soldier and they took me to cell and my guy was fine, it turned out he went to see a girl he had meet in Hinesville,  but she lived in Ludowici and it turned out she White. As soon as he left her house, he didnt make  down the road 2 miles and the Police pulled him over and arrested him, The story was that the car he was driving matched to the description a vehicle  that was involved in a robbery in Savannah, Georgia Well the distance was approximately 41 miles to Savannah from Hinesville? Ga. So I had a conversation with the Chief of Police and I told him look you need to release my soldier because there was no way in hell he could have been in Savannah.

After a little further discussion they released him, and the only reason they had arrested in the first place was because they didn’t like the fact he had lunch with that White girl.Then in 1986 I married  my wife who South Korean. Within months of our marriage my slot for Special Training at Ft. McClellan Alabama, which is located in Anniston, Alabama. Well while there fly wife and we’re asked to leave a Seafood restaurant, because minorities were not welcome. Then at Ft. Lewis, Washington my wife went the records sectional Madigan Army Hospital my wife was treat very disrespectful by a African American records Clerk, ended up being formally reprimanded for actions become of the way she treated me my wife.

So In one case out of three where racially motivated acts have taken place in life only a single time was the individual punished for their action the United States had all the way up through the 1980 again depending upon the location prejudice was alive and well in America. Unfortunately in more cases than not Police are not caught ever charged with a crime especially for lesser situations where a death doesn’t occur. Let me be clear one more time the Police Officers who have never been involved in ant crime fir out number those who commit crimes. Yet, of those who commit crimes few are ever prosecuted, that’s the only point I disagree with in your comments above.

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On 7/22/2022 at 3:59 AM, el midgetron said:

We didn’t need a committee to investigate that. Trump made public statements to that effect. Everyone knew that. Is the committee was pointing out the sky is blue? 

If they did I'm sure you'd claim it was green :rolleyes:

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32 minutes ago, Setton said:

If they did I'm sure you'd claim it was green :rolleyes:

Do you say anything that isn’t a personal attack anymore? 

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11 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

Cops aren't perfect, I get that. But they are doing the best they can, and I reject the claim that police routinely flaunt their own rules, I reject the claim that they routinely lie in investigations, this is conspiracy nonsense (in my humble opinion) based on a flawed understanding of how police work operates. I have no doubt that some have tried to do this, but I would rather look at specific examples of where this is alleged to have taken place rather than just make an assumption that this is what happens and they routinely get away with it. 

I just don't buy that narrative. It's not consistent with the facts that we have available. 

Good for you.    I have had personal experience with what you say cops don't do, and I am not saying all cops, I am saying some cops.  

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1 hour ago, preacherman76 said:

Do you say anything that isn’t a personal attack anymore? 

I'm not sure pointing out that someone will never agree with anything that comes out of this committee is a personal attack.

My sincere apologies if you are so easily offended second hand.

And yes, plenty. Perhaps if you engaged in more meaningful debate instead of sticking a us flag in each ear you'd see more it.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

It sounds like if I agreed that this law needed to be repealed that it would be because it is unfairly affecting ALL Americans, not minorities. 

Are you saying that a law that is unfairly applied to a minority is fine with you?  A law that is unfairly applied to anybody is unfairly applied to everybody.  It threatens MY liberty as well as that of those it seeks to suppress.  I never know when my Constitutional rights will be violated.  That is NOT professionalism on the part of the police.

12 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

My first thought is that there was miscommunication somewhere and someone got the wrong details. It doesn't necessarily make it a "lie".

Maybe there was missed communication, but the police know they are supposed to clear a building before allowing anyone inside.  That kind of mistake potentially has lethal consequences.  So if not a lie, it is worse than a lie.

In this case, the EMTs reported the incident to their superiors.  It was too late to sanitize it.  I think the bosses had a sit-down with the offending officers, but otherwise I don't think there were any consequences.

BTW:  the EMT who was injured in the attack is the same lady who is now an attorney suing police departments.

Doug

Edited by Doug1066
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11 hours ago, psyche101 said:

It's not ok for either side. That's not free speech it's hate speech. 

Problem is:  PA had it right.  Hate speech, by itself, is legal.  BUT:  it can be used to prove that a related crime was a hate crime and therefore has a longer sentence.

Doug

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16 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

In my opinion that's what we have. Police almost universally do their jobs, and do so under very difficult conditions. Some make mistakes, some do more than that. When it happens they are held accountable. 

 

   Well, they are often ,even usually, held accountable.. but the police who illegally entrapped me when I was 18 weren’t held accountable.  I got  a week in jail and 2 years probation ,and nearly ended up being sent to the Vietnam war (for a dismissal of charges and probation)…luckily the judge said “I don’t think Vietnam is the right place for this young man”.  
       I also witnessed a cop put a joint in a girls shirt pocket….then pull it out again with the other cop as ‘witness’.. of the crime of possession. !      Ahhhh memories . :lol:

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6 minutes ago, lightly said:

   Well, they are often ,even usually, held accountable.. but the police who illegally entrapped me when I was 18 weren’t held accountable.  I got  a week in jail and 2 years probation ,and nearly ended up being sent to the Vietnam war (for a dismissal of charges and probation)…luckily the judge said “I don’t think Vietnam is the right place for this young man”.  
       I also witnessed a cop put a joint in a girls shirt pocket….then pull it out again with the other cop as ‘witness’.. of the crime of possession. !      Ahhhh memories . :lol:

That crap still goes on, and worse.   Usually, depending on the area, the cops that do that stuff are not held accountable.

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16 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

That crap still goes on, and worse.   Usually, depending on the area, the cops that do that stuff are not held accountable.

I bet!   The girl was Gorgeous!    It didn’t take them long to get her in their car and take her away for   questioning.      :huh:
     

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Just now, lightly said:

I bet!   The girl was Gorgeous!    It didn’t take them long to get her in their car and take her away for   questioning.      :huh:
     

There isn't an angry face response but sometimes I think there should be, not angry at you, angry at what those cops did.

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Obviously, there is no infringement on the right to stupid speech.

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4 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

There isn't an angry face response but sometimes I think there should be, not angry at you, angry at what those cops did.

     :lol:   …ya, I dunno what they did….but I didn’t trust the grease balls .    :angry:  < angry faced enough?    How’s this one? > <_<    

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Just now, Portre said:

Obviously, there is no infringement on the right to stupid speech.

The thing about speech is that no one has to listen.   It is when it becomes violence is when it is prosecutable.    There was a preacher who used to come to the university I attended for a week about the same time every year.   It was so regular that the school paper would post a notice that he would be arriving soon.   He always stood by one of the engineering buildings and yelled things like "you college students are going to burn in hell!" and then when he saw women going in to the engineering he would grab one of them and pull them to the wall and berate them.   He never chose me because I don't look like I scare easily.    One year when we got to the building there was a chalk mark on the sidewalk of a body holding a bible.   :lol:   He never came back but I suspect it was because too many people complained about him.   He crossed the line once he put his hands on a student.   Not sure why it went on as long as it did. 

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5 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

There was a preacher who used to come to the university I attended for a week about the same time every year.

Was his name Preacher Bob?  We had a guy by that name who did just about the same thing.  He berated one girl for being pregnant and not wearing a wedding ring.  She and her husband decided to forego the ring so she could go to school.  At any rate, he was not too impressed when I came to one of his rants wearing a kilt.  That was fun.  The university eventually charged him with trespass and banned him from campus for ten years under threat of arrest.  So I didn't get to serenade him with the pipes.

Doug

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2 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

Was his name Preacher Bob?  We had a guy by that name who did just about the same thing.  He berated one girl for being pregnant and not wearing a wedding ring.  She and her husband decided to forego the ring so she could go to school.  At any rate, he was not too impressed when I came to one of his rants wearing a kilt.  That was fun.  The university eventually charged him with trespass and banned him from campus for ten years under threat of arrest.  So I didn't get to serenade him with the pipes.

Doug

I don't remember anyone ever knowing his name.  He would always have a few young guys with him, I guess apprentices.   They would stand around and if someone made eye contact with them they would try to hand out flyers.  They did get in trouble if the flyers were found littering so they never gave them out to anyone who did not take it.   I suspect after the last time he accosted women trying to enter the engineering building people finally complained about being assaulted and the university finally got rid of him whether by threat of actually calling the police.

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21 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

My brother-in-law is a coin dealer and while it wasn't $100,000, it was $20,000.  He got it back, but had to skip the show.

Question: Why wouldn't anyone with a ton of cash in the car not simply OBEY THE TRAFFIC LAWS?? Unless he has a sign on his car saying, "Coin Dealer, $20,000 on board".

I've been pulled over like twice in ten years. Yet we're to believe, somehow, that if I had $10000 in cash in the car, the police will know its there and take it?

I realize some people do carry a lot of cash. But the police STILL have to have a reason to pull them over. Or, somehow know who they are and that they have a lot of cash.

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9 hours ago, Setton said:

I'm not sure pointing out that someone will never agree with anything that comes out of this committee is a personal attack.

My sincere apologies if you are so easily offended second hand.

And yes, plenty. Perhaps if you engaged in more meaningful debate instead of sticking a us flag in each ear you'd see more it.

You are wasting your time talking horse sense to that one anything that isnt a clone of his opinion is a personal attack, hes one of the biggest victims on this forum.

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Posted (edited)

 “I can’t work for you anymore”.       Trump said in his appearance today.    He won’t run in 2024.   

Edited by lightly
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16 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

I disagree with the bolded comments above, because of the fact that you did not grow up in the United States..

Yeah, you said that once before. But you also praised other non-US residents for standing up for American values because they DID say something about America.... they just happen to agree with you. So obviously you don't actually care which country I'm from, you only care whether I agree - if I agree then 'welcome brother, speak your truth to power", but if I disagree, "you didn't grow up in the US, you know nothing, PA Snow". It's hypocritical, plain and simple! 

You cannot speak for all Americans, Manwon. There are millions of Americans who would and do agree with everything I am writing. I'm sure your experiences are your experiences, but anecdotes are personal for a reason and don't necessarily reflect real world statistics.

People here in Australia are saying the exact same thing about my country - that Australia is a racist country with racist cops. But as the evidence AND my personal experience proves this is not so, and there are millions of Americans saying the same about America,the logical conclusion is that the people calling both our countries racist (those on the political left) are wrong! 

As such, I see any attempt to silence another person under the guise that they don't live there to be a flawed approach. It's reminiscent of being told I cannot comment on LGBTQIA+ issues because I am not LGBTQIA+, or that I cannot talk about women's issues because I'm not a woman. Or any other minority you care to label here. Of course, minorities say things about white straight males all the time, but don't worry this is definitely not a double standard (sarcasm- of course it's a double standard). 

I will leave you with a video that explains exactly how I feel about this whole thing in a satirical and light-hearted manner. I just need to hire an American who agrees with me to speak on my behalf :) 

 

 

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9 hours ago, lightly said:

   Well, they are often ,even usually, held accountable.. but the police who illegally entrapped me when I was 18 weren’t held accountable.  I got  a week in jail and 2 years probation ,and nearly ended up being sent to the Vietnam war (for a dismissal of charges and probation)…luckily the judge said “I don’t think Vietnam is the right place for this young man”.  
       I also witnessed a cop put a joint in a girls shirt pocket….then pull it out again with the other cop as ‘witness’.. of the crime of possession. !      Ahhhh memories . :lol:

Your reference to Vietnam does date your story and the experiences you had growing up to a very particular period of time before a lot of the rights we have today have been put in place, so I'm really not sure how valuable your story is to determining whether police in 2022 are doing these things! Especially with modern technology, if this was anywhere close to a regular occurrence we'd see mobile phone footage of it happening all the time!  

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10 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

Are you saying that a law that is unfairly applied to a minority is fine with you?  A law that is unfairly applied to anybody is unfairly applied to everybody.  It threatens MY liberty as well as that of those it seeks to suppress.  I never know when my Constitutional rights will be violated.  That is NOT professionalism on the part of the police.

No, I'm saying the law doesn't appear to be applied inconsistently, therefore it's not a racist issue. I don't think the law is the problem here, but if I were to agree with you it's because it affects everyone equally badly. 

 

10 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

Maybe there was missed communication, but the police know they are supposed to clear a building before allowing anyone inside.  That kind of mistake potentially has lethal consequences.  So if not a lie, it is worse than a lie.

In this case, the EMTs reported the incident to their superiors.  It was too late to sanitize it.  I think the bosses had a sit-down with the offending officers, but otherwise I don't think there were any consequences.

BTW:  the EMT who was injured in the attack is the same lady who is now an attorney suing police departments.

Doug

You claimed police lie, and your evidence is a situation in which the truth came out completely, so how can this be evidence of a lie? Especially when the context of "lies" that was initially brought up was in terms of police investigations into scenarios and how your opinion was that police would lie to these committees.... the "lie" here was about an oversight of procedural operation, which may not have been a lie at all if it was simply a mistake. The investigation should have led to how that happened. But without access to the Report I only have your word on it that any of this properly reflects what happened. And considering your penchant for reframing stories to support a particular political leaning I struggle to see any wrongdoing here. 

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12 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Good for you.    I have had personal experience with what you say cops don't do, and I am not saying all cops, I am saying some cops.  

Without knowing basic details like when (eg, I just finished replying to someone who mentioned potentially being shipped off to the Vietnam war, which places the scenario as decades old at least; potentially before the civil rights movement of the 1960s, or at the latest less than a decade after the civil rights movement), and what happened, and without any corroborating details, I find it hard to say much.  I am not saying every cop is perfect either, but I am sharing my opinion. That's what everyone does on this forum, after all :) 

~ Regards, PA

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