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Jan 6 public hearings Live


spartan max2
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3 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Question: Why wouldn't anyone with a ton of cash in the car not simply OBEY THE TRAFFIC LAWS?? Unless he has a sign on his car saying, "Coin Dealer, $20,000 on board".

I've been pulled over like twice in ten years. Yet we're to believe, somehow, that if I had $10000 in cash in the car, the police will know its there and take it?

I realize some people do carry a lot of cash. But the police STILL have to have a reason to pull them over. Or, somehow know who they are and that they have a lot of cash.

I don't know how my brother-in-law got caught.

I got caught in a random drug stop.  I was simply the tenth car to go by in the sequence.  The cop took a bored look at me and waved me past.  Seems I didn't fit the profile.

But somehow, that sheriff's office west of OKC knows how to find enough to keep itself running.  How do they know who to stop?

Doug

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Its utterly riduculous to make claims that one knows something from second third hand etc sources as well as living it in person or from a person living it. People who make such claims are simply allowing ego to control them.

 

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1 hour ago, Paranoid Android said:

No, I'm saying the law doesn't appear to be applied inconsistently, therefore it's not a racist issue. I don't think the law is the problem here, but if I were to agree with you it's because it affects everyone equally badly. 

 

You claimed police lie, and your evidence is a situation in which the truth came out completely, so how can this be evidence of a lie? Especially when the context of "lies" that was initially brought up was in terms of police investigations into scenarios and how your opinion was that police would lie to these committees.... the "lie" here was about an oversight of procedural operation, which may not have been a lie at all if it was simply a mistake. The investigation should have led to how that happened. But without access to the Report I only have your word on it that any of this properly reflects what happened. And considering your penchant for reframing stories to support a particular political leaning I struggle to see any wrongdoing here. 

The only way we the people know the police were lying is when the truth gets exposed in court or during somebody's, not necessarily the police, investigations.  So the fact that it was brought out does not support your contention, especially considering how you always try to make excuses for cops.

I've dealt with these guys.  They're not very truthful, even under oath.

Doug

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

Yeah, you said that once before. But you also praised other non-US residents for standing up for American values because they DID say something about America.... they just happen to agree with you. So obviously you don't actually care which country I'm from, you only care whether I agree - if I agree then 'welcome brother, speak your truth to power", but if I disagree, "you didn't grow up in the US, you know nothing, PA Snow". It's hypocritical, plain and simple!


Before I respond to your comments here, I want to say I am a little surprised that you would comment on my post in the manner that you did! I honestly responded to you without any recriminations and very respectfully based upon my life’s experiences. You choose to disregard that and respond in a negative manner basically saying my life experiences are not valid because millions of Americans do not agree with me ( how are you even able to use that number, please provide a source that Million of America’s don’t agree with me )  Then you go onto sat that things I have personally lived through and personally experienced are some fabrication ( in other words I am a liar )  well that further proves you are the disingenuous person I am going to describe below!:(

Actually you right in at least one respect, however I do not praise other non-residents who join into political discussions concerning America! I do however, appreciate their views, I don’t appreciate yours however, not because it doesn’t support my views, but because of your well known disingenuous comments that you are known to make across multiple threads on multiple subjects! You see I respect anyone who has a firm belief and stands up to scrutiny no matter the consequences or the attacks upon their character!

The only thing in your comments above that is plain and simple is the fact you, based upon how you quoted my comments in your response prove without any doubt your disingenuous nature. You intentionally left out the entire sentence from my response to to intentionally make it look like an attack upon which it clearly wasn’t and I will post the full sentence and what you quoted below to show how you intentionally misquote or intentionally only provide part of someone’s comments to use in your favor: 

My full comments which you intentionally only partially quoted: “”I disagree with the bolded comments above, because of the fact that you did not grow up in the United States..This makes you have the vieyou do, it’s not a dig on you personally, it’s only a lack of experience.””

Here are the comments you chose to include while intentionally leaving the rest of the comment out which is typical disingenuous behavior that you frequently exhibit,:no: The exact Quote you made to my comments”” I disagree with the bolded comments above, because of the fact that you did not grow up in the United States. “”

This is typically the way you intentionally choose to address others in threads across this forum on  threads on multiple topics, it’s has nothing to do with the fact of agreement or disagreements on my part!

This speaks directly to you disingenuous nature in general and everyone is aware of it. This is why I am. unable to respect you opinions and it’s also why I respect the opinions other Non-Americans and not yous! You see I totally respect anyone who stands for their beliefs whether I agree with them or not, because it’s all about one very simple fact that your unable to realize.

If you don’t honestly and with integrity stand for your beliefs, you will certainly fall for anything and based upon our conversations you have proven over and over again that proving your right the only thing that’s  important to you and you will sacrifice anything to do that!:no:

3 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

You cannot speak for all Americans, Manwon. There are millions of Americans who would and do agree with everything I am writing. I'm sure your experiences are your experiences, but anecdotes are personal for a reason and don't necessarily reflect real world statistics.

People here in Australia are saying the exact same thing about my country - that Australia is a racist country with racist cops. But as the evidence AND my personal experience proves this is not so, and there are millions of Americans saying the same about America,the logical conclusion is that the people calling both our countries racist (those on the political left) are wrong!

I never said I speak for all Americans, there you go again putting words in my mouth, but thanks because it proves that ly prevous comments in this post are vindicated, this is vey typical behavior coming from you!! I could not care what Australians say about their own country, I make it a habit to only comment on my country, that’s were my experience lays!

However, now that you mention it, the way the native Australians, ( Aberigiones) have and are still being treated in some case is the same terrible thing that has been carried out worldwide by European settlers, when they encounter native populations!  So obviously your experience that you proclaim above is bias in nature! Because the actions of your Nations past still continues into very recent history as confirmation below! Which identifies that this racist behavior is still occurring or do you not consider this a act of cultural racism.

 

Genocide in Australia:

The Australian Museum respects and acknowledges the Gadigal people as the First Peoples and Traditional Custodians of the land and waterways on which the Museum stands.

We acknowledge Elders past, present and emerging.

“”Many will argue that state-sanctioned physical violence has not ended as many First Nations people still die at the hands of police or in police custody. This was highlighted by the 1991 Deaths in Custody report by the Office of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Social Justice Commissioner for the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission. Today one First Nations person is killed in circumstances involving police every 28 days

https://australian.museum/learn/first-nations/genocide-in-australia/

 

3 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

As such, I see any attempt to silence another person under the guise that they don't live there to be a flawed approach. It's reminiscent of being told I cannot comment on LGBTQIA+ issues because I am not LGBTQIA+, or that I cannot talk about women's issues because I'm not a woman. Or any other minority you care to label here. Of course, minorities say things about white straight males all the time, but don't worry this is definitely not a double standard (sarcasm- of course it's a double standard). 

I will leave you with a video that explains exactly how I feel about this whole thing in a satirical and light-hearted manner. I just need to hire an American who agrees with me to speak on my behalf :)

:(:(:( You know I find extremely sad that you end you comments with a smile. Thats actually ridiculous given the nature of my original post that you quoted and concerning the issues at hand. I really think you need to seriously reevaluate your thoughts on the subjects at hand because it not joke, and attempts to make it one only discredit you personally!!:(

3 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

 

 

 

Edited by Manwon Lender
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16 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Actually you right in at least one respect, however I do not praise other non-residents who join into political discussions concerning America! I do however, appreciate their views, I don’t appreciate yours however, not because it doesn’t support my views, but because of your well known disingenuous comments that you are known to make across multiple threads on multiple subjects! You see I respect anyone who has a firm belief and stands up to scrutiny no matter the consequences or the attacks upon their character!

The only thing in your comments above that is plain and simple is the fact you, based upon how you quoted my comments in your response prove without any doubt your disingenuous nature. You intentionally left out the entire sentence from my response to to intentionally make it look like an attack upon which it clearly wasn’t and I will post the full sentence and what you quoted below to show how you intentionally misquote or intentionally only provide part of someone’s comments to use in your favor: 

My full comments which you intentionally only partially quoted: “”I disagree with the bolded comments above, because of the fact that you did not grow up in the United States..This makes you have the vieyou do, it’s not a dig on you personally, it’s only a lack of experience.””

Here are the comments you chose to include while intentionally leaving the rest of the comment out which is typical disingenuous behavior that you frequently exhibit,:no: The exact Quote you made to my comments”” I disagree with the bolded comments above, because of the fact that you did not grow up in the United States. “”

This is typically the way you intentionally choose to address others in threads across this forum on  threads on multiple topics, it’s has nothing to do with the fact of agreement or disagreements on my part!

This speaks directly to you disingenuous nature in general and everyone is aware of it. This is why I am. unable to respect you opinions and it’s also why I respect the opinions other Non-Americans and not yous! You see I totally respect anyone who stands for their beliefs whether I agree with them or not, because it’s all about one very simple fact that your unable to realize.

If you don’t honestly and with integrity stand for your beliefs, you will certainly fall for anything and based upon our conversations you have proven over and over again that proving your right the only thing that’s  important to you and you will sacrifice anything to do that!:no:

I never said I speak for all Americans, there you go again putting words in my mouth, but thanks because it proves that ly prevous comments in this post are vindicated, this is vey typical behavior coming from you!! I could not care what Australians say about their own country, I make it a habit to only comment on my country, that’s were my experience lays!

However, now that you mention it, the way the native Australians, ( Aberigiones) have and are still being treated in some case is the same terrible thing that has been carried out worldwide by European settlers, when they encounter native populations!  So obviously your experience that you proclaim above is bias in nature! Because the actions of your Nations past still continues into very recent history as confirmation below! Which identifies that this racist behavior is still occurring or do you not consider this a act of cultural racism.

 

Genocide in Australia:

The Australian Museum respects and acknowledges the Gadigal people as the First Peoples and Traditional Custodians of the land and waterways on which the Museum stands.

We acknowledge Elders past, present and emerging.

“”Many will argue that state-sanctioned physical violence has not ended as many First Nations people still die at the hands of police or in police custody. This was highlighted by the 1991 Deaths in Custody report by the Office of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Social Justice Commissioner for the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission. Today one First Nations person is killed in circumstances involving police every 28 days

https://australian.museum/learn/first-nations/genocide-in-australia/

 

:(:(:( You know I find extremely sad that you end you comments with a smile. Thats actually ridiculous given the nature of my original post that you quoted and concerning the issues at hand. I really think you need to seriously reevaluate your thoughts on the subjects at hand because it not joke, and attempts to make it one only discredit you personally!!:(

 

A great example that mods have their own set of rules here.

 

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14 minutes ago, the13bats said:

A great example that mods have their own set of rules here.

 

Well, that’s not exactly correct my friend, while he is listed as a moderator, he has opened stated that he is no longer acting in that capacity on the forum in posts! Now, that is about the only thing I believe based upon comments which he did DIRECT STATE TO ME in a previous post, when I asked him that question!:yes: 

Sincerely my friend I believe this is truly case, I hope this issue get resolved because I think everyone should know for certain!!!

Thanks very much for your reply Bats it’s always a pleasure to hear from you my friend!!!:tu:

 

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15 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Well, that’s not exactly correct my friend, while he is listed as a moderator, he has opened stated that he is no longer acting in that capacity on the forum in posts! Now, that is about the only thing I believe based upon comments which he did DIRECT STATE TO ME in a previous post, when I asked him that question!:yes: 

Sincerely my friend I believe this is truly case, I hope this issue get resolved because I think everyone should know for certain!!!

Thanks very much for your reply Bats it’s always a pleasure to hear from you my friend!!!:tu:

 

Thanks for clearing that up a bit ive been here a while and a bit perplexed why some with the mod badge could set the bad examples that they do.  must be really confusing to new members.

I will leave it at that.

 

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50 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Actually you right in at least one respect, however I do not praise other non-residents who join into political discussions concerning America!

An absolute porker of a lie there, mate: 

  

On 7/19/2022 at 6:14 PM, Manwon Lender said:

@psyche101 my friend your not even an American, however you standup and embody the American spirit in the face of adversity. Your called names, like Lefty, liberal, and told by to refrain from commenting on American political, and national issues of morality that are viewed worldwide. Well in my typical and sometimes uncouth manner I am proud to have you as a friend and as someone I can listen to that not only do I agree with, but also is someone I can learn from and respect. To me it’s sad that many of my fellow Americans, can’t see the value you provid by speaking your mind on issues both political and moral, while never allowing the negative atmosphere to effect your stand. So thanks sincerely I appreciate what you do!:tu:

Not only did you praise this member for talking about American issues, you spoke highly of the value he provides by speaking his mind, in fact many Americans could learn from him in your opinion! 

Keep up with the porkies, mate, you are only making yourself look bad! 

 

50 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I do however, appreciate their views, I don’t appreciate yours however, not because it doesn’t support my views, but because of your well known disingenuous comments that you are known to make across multiple threads on multiple subjects! You see I respect anyone who has a firm belief and stands up to scrutiny no matter the consequences or the attacks upon their character!

The only thing in your comments above that is plain and simple is the fact you, based upon how you quoted my comments in your response prove without any doubt your disingenuous nature. You intentionally left out the entire sentence from my response to to intentionally make it look like an attack upon which it clearly wasn’t and I will post the full sentence and what you quoted below to show how you intentionally misquote or intentionally only provide part of someone’s comments to use in your favor: 

My full comments which you intentionally only partially quoted: “”I disagree with the bolded comments above, because of the fact that you did not grow up in the United States..This makes you have the vieyou do, it’s not a dig on you personally, it’s only a lack of experience.””

Here are the comments you chose to include while intentionally leaving the rest of the comment out which is typical disingenuous behavior that you frequently exhibit,:no: The exact Quote you made to my comments”” I disagree with the bolded comments above, because of the fact that you did not grow up in the United States. “”

This is typically the way you intentionally choose to address others in threads across this forum on  threads on multiple topics, it’s has nothing to do with the fact of agreement or disagreements on my part!

This speaks directly to you disingenuous nature in general and everyone is aware of it. This is why I am. unable to respect you opinions and it’s also why I respect the opinions other Non-Americans and not yous! You see I totally respect anyone who stands for their beliefs whether I agree with them or not, because it’s all about one very simple fact that your unable to realize.

If you don’t honestly and with integrity stand for your beliefs, you will certainly fall for anything and based upon our conversations you have proven over and over again that proving your right the only thing that’s  important to you and you will sacrifice anything to do that!:no:

I chose not to respond to your whole post as I couldn't be bothered putting effort into something that you are simply going to wave away as me not living in your country. I think you're reading too much into it if you see more than that :yes: 

 

50 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

 

I never said I speak for all Americans, there you go again putting words in my mouth, but thanks because it proves that ly prevous comments in this post are vindicated, this is vey typical behavior coming from you!! I could not care what Australians say about their own country, I make it a habit to only comment on my country, that’s were my experience lays!

But other Americans do disagree with you! Would you disagree if I said there are Americans out there who believe as I do? If not, then your argument is aimed solely at trying to shut me up, not on any actual merit in your claims! 

 

50 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

However, now that you mention it, the way the native Australians, ( Aberigiones) have and are still being treated in some case is the same terrible thing that has been carried out worldwide by European settlers, when they encounter native populations!  So obviously your experience that you proclaim above is bias in nature! Because the actions of your Nations past still continues into very recent history as confirmation below! Which identifies that this racist behavior is still occurring or do you not consider this a act of cultural racism.

 

Genocide in Australia:

The Australian Museum respects and acknowledges the Gadigal people as the First Peoples and Traditional Custodians of the land and waterways on which the Museum stands.

We acknowledge Elders past, present and emerging.

“”Many will argue that state-sanctioned physical violence has not ended as many First Nations people still die at the hands of police or in police custody. This was highlighted by the 1991 Deaths in Custody report by the Office of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Social Justice Commissioner for the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission. Today one First Nations person is killed in circumstances involving police every 28 days

https://australian.museum/learn/first-nations/genocide-in-australia/

I have never said Australia hasn't got a racist past. There are some historical aspects to our country that are morally repugnant. Just as there are elements in your country's history that is repugnant. The genocide of aboriginals is one of those. However, that isn't happening anymore. Indigenous Australians are still over-represented in the prison system, but much like the American legal system being dominated by black Americans, it's not because we are racist but because indigenous Australians disproportionately commit more crimes.

Now there are a whole range of reasons why indigenous Australians commit crime. Socio-economic issues are a big part of it, aboriginals are disproportionately represented in our poorest communities. And there is a lot that we can do to help change that. But it doesn't happen overnight, and it doesn't mean that aboriginals are unfairly targeted for their skin colour.  

 

50 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

:(:(:( You know I find extremely sad that you end you comments with a smile. Thats actually ridiculous given the nature of my original post that you quoted and concerning the issues at hand. I really think you need to seriously reevaluate your thoughts on the subjects at hand because it not joke, and attempts to make it one only discredit you personally!!:(

 

I smiled because it's patently ridiculous that you are using an unreasonable standard to dismiss me. I just need an American "surrogate" (to use language from the video) to speak the exact same words on my behalf, and your argument falls apart. If your argument is so easily beaten, it isn't a very strong case! That's my point and it's pretty clear that this is what you are doing! 

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8 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Thanks for clearing that up a bit ive been here a while and a bit perplexed why some with the mod badge could set the bad examples that they do.  must be really confusing to new members.

I will leave it at that.

 

I suspect we both should leave it at that, hopefully like said this issue will be resolved at some point!

Peace Bats ! :tu:

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22 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I suspect we both should leave it at that, hopefully like said this issue will be resolved at some point!

Peace Bats ! :tu:

back to the thread.

Do you think trump will get in any trouble at all?

 

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2 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

The only way we the people know the police were lying is when the truth gets exposed in court or during somebody's, not necessarily the police, investigations.  So the fact that it was brought out does not support your contention, especially considering how you always try to make excuses for cops.

I've dealt with these guys.  They're not very truthful, even under oath.

Doug

But you haven't shown any evidence that anyone lied. If the police went into the investigation and tried to tell the investigator that they checked the building, THAT would be an example of a lie! As it is, all you've shown is that someone screwed up. Presumably there was an investigation, and I'm assuming the police didn't try to claim that they searched the building. 

I therefore fail to see how you have demonstrated your position. 

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2 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

I don't know how my brother-in-law got caught.

I got caught in a random drug stop.  I was simply the tenth car to go by in the sequence.  The cop took a bored look at me and waved me past.  Seems I didn't fit the profile.

But somehow, that sheriff's office west of OKC knows how to find enough to keep itself running.  How do they know who to stop?

Doug

I had not considered random stops. :tu:

Yeah, in some states that would be a real threat I think. Probably those who desire the money most are the state/county/cities that you'll see doing random stops.

How to not get stopped... Try to appear white, and then look bored. If you're a minority and look scared/anxious you're in for a check.

At least some drug rings are run by gangs. And gangs are stereotyped as being mainly minorities. And gangs deal in cash.... So, young male minorities wearing "colors"?? You are getting pulled over.

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3 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Allegedly the justice department may be doing an investigation into Trump's efforts to overturn the election .

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/26/us/politics/trump-jan-6-justice-department.html

 

Maybe that's why Thompson said no criminal charges would be recommended to the DOJ... He knew they were already working on it.

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Posted (edited)

Just a tangential FYI, but looks like Cheney will not be reelected...

Q2 News: Liz Cheney facing huge deficit in U.S. House race according to latest poll.
https://www.ktvq.com/news/national-politics/liz-cheney-facing-huge-deficit-in-u-s-house-race-according-to-latest-poll

Edit: Kinzinger won't run for reelection. 

CNBC: GOP Trump critic Rep. Adam Kinzinger of Illinois won't seek re-election in 2022.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/29/gop-trump-critic-rep-adam-kinzinger-of-illinois-wont-seek-re-election-in-2022.html

I do hope both thought this to be truly needed, since both killed their political career with this committee. 

Edited by DieChecker
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58 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

An absolute porker of a lie there, mate: 

  

Not only did you praise this member for talking about American issues, you spoke highly of the value he provides by speaking his mind, in fact many Americans could learn from him in your opinion! 

Keep up with the porkies, mate, you are only making yourself look bad!

I will say this clearly, plainly, and without any anger or malicious intent I my point in my last post to you clearly explains what I think of your attempt to mischaracterize ordinal comments posted to you in the first post you quoted of mine today! Unlike you I have many many failings and I openly admit it some yiur in capable of doing! If you choose to respond please do so by PM, I do ot wish to disrupt or retail this thread any further tha we both have done today!

This song is for you, I use it when I am down or feeling unsatisfied with myself it always picks me up and allows me to feel better about myself it also helps me understand what I did and how I can learn not to repeat the same mistakes in the future!:tu:

 

58 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

 

I chose not to respond to your whole post as I couldn't be bothered putting effort into something that you are simply going to wave away as me not living in your country. I think you're reading too much into it if you see more than that :yes: 

 

But other Americans do disagree with you! Would you disagree if I said there are Americans out there who believe as I do? If not, then your argument is aimed solely at trying to shut me up, not on any actual merit in your claims! 

 

I have never said Australia hasn't got a racist past. There are some historical aspects to our country that are morally repugnant. Just as there are elements in your country's history that is repugnant. The genocide of aboriginals is one of those. However, that isn't happening anymore. Indigenous Australians are still over-represented in the prison system, but much like the American legal system being dominated by black Americans, it's not because we are racist but because indigenous Australians disproportionately commit more crimes.

Now there are a whole range of reasons why indigenous Australians commit crime. Socio-economic issues are a big part of it, aboriginals are disproportionately represented in our poorest communities. And there is a lot that we can do to help change that. But it doesn't happen overnight, and it doesn't mean that aboriginals are unfairly targeted for their skin colour.  

 

I smiled because it's patently ridiculous that you are using an unreasonable standard to dismiss me. I just need an American "surrogate" (to use language from the video) to speak the exact same words on my behalf, and your argument falls apart. If your argument is so easily beaten, it isn't a very strong case! That's my point and it's pretty clear that this is what you are doing! 

 

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43 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

An absolute porker of a lie there, mate: 

  

Not only did you praise this member for talking about American issues, you spoke highly of the value he provides by speaking his mind, in fact many Americans could learn from him in your opinion! 

Keep up with the porkies, mate, you are only making yourself look bad! 

Seems unfair. 

Manwon stated that I embodied the spirit of a free America. He didn't actually comment on my political posting but commended not backing down to right wing bullies on the forum, who have indeed said I would not know because I'm not American. 

A little embarrassing in my behalf. It was very complimentary I admit. Shared though. Manwon had told me a couple stories about his service for his country. Mind blowing. Has my respect in bucket loads. He has had a fascinating life. And an experienced fellow. The type of American I remember, not what America has become. He is likeable.

Here is the post you quoted with different bolding.

"you standup and embody the American spirit in the face of adversity. Your called names, like Lefty, liberal, and told by to refrain from commenting on American political, and national issues of morality that are viewed worldwide"

 Worldwide issues not specifically endemic to America. American made but world problems. I feel you misquoted him there.

And I provide more sound sources, not influenced by political bias from reputable people with clean records. Free of a bias toward mainstream media. Of course you don't agree, but that's the difference right there isn't it? 

It got Manwons attention as it has others.

No obscure right wing headlines from the other side of the world to create a panic that does not exist in your own backyard. You try too hard to be outraged. People notice.

Manwon said I get called all sorts of things but soldier on anyway. I didn't take it as championing my views, but how they are presented. I can lose my cool, but can also stand firm presenting information to support my posting. A strong spirit thing. 

It's a mutual respect. 

Not many do find your YouTube sources and right wing thugs sound, just as I don't.

That's more the gist from what I gather. You're a highly emotional knee jerk poster these days. I notice that you find conflict with a great many more people than you used to. And your being a snowflake right now. Discuss the topic. Don't whine and carry on like a spoiled toddler. He got praise I want praise. In here you should know you earn respect. You don't post a YouTube video to prove that you are respectable.

You must be one of the most off topic and erratic posters on the forum these days. 

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31 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

not backing down to right wing bullies on the forum, who have indeed said I would not know because I'm not American. 

Thing is and just mnsho you are far more savvy about American politics than a lot of Americans who post here, its rare as most non Americans make blithering riduculous posts proving they are beyond clueless and just like to prove how ignorant they are.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Seems unfair. 

Manwon stated that I embodied the spirit of a free America. He didn't actually comment on my political posting but commended not backing down to right wing bullies on the forum, who have indeed said I would not know because I'm not American. 

A little embarrassing in my behalf. It was very complimentary I admit. Shared though. Manwon had told me a couple stories about his service for his country. Mind blowing. Has my respect in bucket loads. He has had a fascinating life. And an experienced fellow. The type of American I remember, not what America has become. He is likeable.

Here is the post you quoted with different bolding.

"you standup and embody the American spirit in the face of adversity. Your called names, like Lefty, liberal, and told by to refrain from commenting on American political, and national issues of morality that are viewed worldwide"

 Worldwide issues not specifically endemic to America. American made but world problems. I feel you misquoted him there.

And I provide more sound sources, not influenced by political bias from reputable people with clean records. Free of a bias toward mainstream media. Of course you don't agree, but that's the difference right there isn't it? 

It got Manwons attention as it has others.

No obscure right wing headlines from the other side of the world to create a panic that does not exist in your own backyard. You try too hard to be outraged. People notice.

Manwon said I get called all sorts of things but soldier on anyway. I didn't take it as championing my views, but how they are presented. I can lose my cool, but can also stand firm presenting information to support my posting. A strong spirit thing. 

It's a mutual respect. 

Not many do find your YouTube sources and right wing thugs sound, just as I don't.

That's more the gist from what I gather. You're a highly emotional knee jerk poster these days. I notice that you find conflict with a great many more people than you used to. And your being a snowflake right now. Discuss the topic. Don't whine and carry on like a spoiled toddler. He got praise I want praise. In here you should know you earn respect. You don't post a YouTube video to prove that you are respectable.

You must be one of the most off topic and erratic posters on the forum these days. 

Thank you I am an uneducated old soldier, you expressed my point in much better terms than I was able to. If you read the original poet he quoted it is obvious that my thoughts and my experiences that I related were intentionally mischaracterized by him and it made no sense because my comments where not in anyway an attack upon him!  At first I was confused, but as the realization of his words struck home I was insulted because nothing I said was a lie like he attempted to dismiss and make it sound like.

This is not the first time he has acted and spoken

 in this manner  towards me! Yet, what bothers me most is the fact that he dismisses  and treats others in the same manner, well it’s not in my nature to remain silent and allow anyone to attack people. Especially those who in some cases fir whatever reason are unable or just can’t defend themselves, so I did what’s natural I stood up and responded to him.

I only sincerely hope it helps because I don’t hate anyone, I have had more than enough conflict in my life, but no matter, because I suspect I will be standing up in situations like this until it’s my turn to sleep for eternity!:D

Oh and by the way, the comments you were referring to that I made about were and are sincerely from my heart, one thing I al certain you about le I say exactly what I mean and unless proven wrong I will not retract anything I say. However, I am certainly not perfect, but when I am proven wrong I will apologize for my mistakes, this in my what adults whether men or women must if they have any respect for themselves!:tu: 

I appreciate and sincerely thank you again for your consideration and your help putting into words what I was trying too. Peace my and many thanks again!:tu:

 

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Just now, the13bats said:

Thing is and just mnsho you are far more savvy about American politics than a lot of Americans who post here, its rare as most non Americans make blithering riduculous posts proving they are beyond clueless and just like to prove how ignorant they are.

Thank you for the kind words. I learn a lot from you guys, and as you know, I can stand corrected when required. America has an influence on the entire world. I think we should all know something about it. And America has been the darling of Australia while I was growing up. Huge influence on our culture and outlook. It's only since Trump that I've seen real division, which is disheartening. Guys like you and Manwon more remind me of those days when we looked up to America as the shining star leading the way. The great America. I honestly hope you get a leader deserving of the honour of steering your great country. The last few should pay America for allowing them to be in office rather than the other way around. You deserve better.

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39 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Seems unfair. 

Manwon stated that I embodied the spirit of a free America. He didn't actually comment on my political posting but commended not backing down to right wing bullies on the forum, who have indeed said I would not know because I'm not American. 

A little embarrassing in my behalf. It was very complimentary I admit. Shared though. Manwon had told me a couple stories about his service for his country. Mind blowing. Has my respect in bucket loads. He has had a fascinating life. And an experienced fellow. The type of American I remember, not what America has become. He is likeable.

Here is the post you quoted with different bolding.

"you standup and embody the American spirit in the face of adversity. Your called names, like Lefty, liberal, and told by to refrain from commenting on American political, and national issues of morality that are viewed worldwide"

 Worldwide issues not specifically endemic to America. American made but world problems. I feel you misquoted him there.

And I provide more sound sources, not influenced by political bias from reputable people with clean records. Free of a bias toward mainstream media. Of course you don't agree, but that's the difference right there isn't it? There's one right here in this thread trying to do so and you're waxing lyrical about how he's such a good blokr

It got Manwons attention as it has others.

No obscure right wing headlines from the other side of the world to create a panic that does not exist in your own backyard. You try too hard to be outraged. People notice.

Manwon said I get called all sorts of things but soldier on anyway. I didn't take it as championing my views, but how they are presented. I can lose my cool, but can also stand firm presenting information to support my posting. A strong spirit thing. 

It's a mutual respect. 

Not many do find your YouTube sources and right wing thugs sound, just as I don't.

That's more the gist from what I gather. You're a highly emotional knee jerk poster these days. I notice that you find conflict with a great many more people than you used to. And your being a snowflake right now. Discuss the topic. Don't whine and carry on like a spoiled toddler. He got praise I want praise. In here you should know you earn respect. You don't post a YouTube video to prove that you are respectable.

You must be one of the most off topic and erratic posters on the forum these days. 

I appreciate you standing up for your forum friend. But this isn't the first time Manwon's said this to me. The first time he did so was in the context of Donald Trump and the January 6 riots. I don't live in America and therefore my opinion is worthless. Donald Trump is a story of international interest, wouldn't you say? As too the January 6 riots? But apparently my opinion is worthless there too. This is just an extension of Manwon trying to shut me up because I'm saying something he doesn't like and I'm not an American. 

On a final note, I hope you see the total irony in complaining that the right wing bullies are saying you shouldn't comment on American issues because you aren't American. Do the "left wing bullies" get the same comment in that they are trying to silence those who disagree with them? There's one right in this thread and you're waxing lyrical about how good a bloke he is! 

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10 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

I appreciate you standing up for your forum friend. But this isn't the first time Manwon's said this to me. The first time he did so was in the context of Donald Trump and the January 6 riots. I don't live in America and therefore my opinion is worthless. Donald Trump is a story of international interest, wouldn't you say? As too the January 6 riots? But apparently my opinion is worthless there too. This is just an extension of Manwon trying to shut me up because I'm saying something he doesn't like and I'm not an American. 

On a final note, I hope you see the total irony in complaining that the right wing bullies are saying you shouldn't comment on American issues because you aren't American. Do the "left wing bullies" get the same comment in that they are trying to silence those who disagree with them? 

This is why your opinion is worthless to me and other non-Americans opinions are not, again you being disingenuous and mischaracterizing   what I actually said, sad really sad!:(

I quote my comments from above:

Actually you right in at least one respect, however I do not praise other non-residents who join into political discussions concerning America! I do however, appreciate their views, I don’t appreciate yours however, not because it doesn’t support my views, but because of your well known for the disingenuous comments that you are known to make across multiple threads on multiple subjects! You see I respect anyone who has a firm belief and stands up to scrutiny no matter the consequences or the attacks upon their character!

Edited by Manwon Lender
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34 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Thing is and just mnsho you are far more savvy about American politics than a lot of Americans who post here, its rare as most non Americans make blithering riduculous posts proving they are beyond clueless and just like to prove how ignorant they are.

Guys I am out of here ( this thread had enough for today, I will find a conversation in anithe4 forum section!

Thanks guy for your support I truly appreciate it, it always feels good when others understand you and excepted you with your fault’s so I am out, PEACE and Iove to everyone!!:tu:

26 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Thank you for the kind words. I learn a lot from you guys, and as you know, I can stand corrected when required. America has an influence on the entire world. I think we should all know something about it. And America has been the darling of Australia while I was growing up. Huge influence on our culture and outlook. It's only since Trump that I've seen real division, which is disheartening. Guys like you and Manwon more remind me of those days when we looked up to America as the shining star leading the way. The great America. I honestly hope you get a leader deserving of the honour of steering your great country. The last few should pay America for allowing them to be in office rather than the other way around. You deserve better.

 

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34 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

This is why your opinion is worthless to me and other non-Americans opinions are not, again you being disingenuous and mischaracterizing   what I actually said, sad really sad!:(

I quote my comments from above:

Actually you right in at least one respect, however I do not praise other non-residents who join into political discussions concerning America! I do however, appreciate their views, I don’t appreciate yours however, not because it doesn’t support my views, but because of your well known for the disingenuous comments that you are known to make across multiple threads on multiple subjects! You see I respect anyone who has a firm belief and stands up to scrutiny no matter the consequences or the attacks upon their character!

I'm quoting your words, mate. And now once again to quote your words from that other thread. I'm genuinely not trying to be disingenuous, I'm reading your words as they come across to me. If I am misinterpreting you it's not intentional and I request that you help explain where I'm misinterpreting you. 

  

On 7/22/2022 at 8:11 PM, Manwon Lender said:

That’s very easy for you to say honestly because you don’t have a Dog in the fight, that’s a country term where I grew up it was plane and simple English. So, you only experience concerning this subject is what you read or what you choose to believe as far as what others tell you. I grew in the country, and I watched the entire civil rights movement of the 60s along with the terrible loss I could even imagine the assassination of President.

No matter what you say your views are not based upon the knowledge Americans have no disrespect intended. It’s like me telling you about your PM, I would never try because you knowledge far exceeds mIne. Whether you ever admit it or not I know more about Trump the man than you  and I also forget more than you know.

This is now multiple posts in which you have tried to disqualify me from sharing an opinion based on the fact that I don't live in your country (added to the other posts I've quoted so far). And honestly, I don't see what the difference is between you telling me I shouldn't comment on American issues and any of the right wingers who told @psyche101 that he shouldn't talk about American issues (I haven't seen those posts, so maybe they were somehow different). 

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40 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

I appreciate you standing up for your forum friend.

Well it's not just that is it. Yes I'd like to consider Manwon a friend although I have not met him in person.

Manwon also stated that my views reflect his American experience. As such, of course that will be less confrontational and acceptable. I'm not telling him anything he doesn't already know. And to that effect Manwon offered praise. That I could reflect an Americans actual experience as opposed to telling him he lives as per #link regardless of his personal experience. Let's face it. He lived in the country Trump ruled. He saw first hand what you and I post about. If my posting reflects his experience, who are you to say your links better describe what he has seen? You do get how that approach can easily be seen as disrespectful right? 

If an American stated something uniquely Australian, I suspect you're reaction might be of a similar type. Mine would.

40 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

But this isn't the first time Manwon's said this to me. The first time he did so was in the context of Donald Trump and the January 6 riots. I don't live in America and therefore my opinion is worthless. Donald Trump is a story of international interest, wouldn't you say? As too the January 6 riots? But apparently my opinion is worthless there too. This is just an extension of Manwon trying to shut me up because I'm saying something he doesn't like and I'm not an American. 

Donald yes, Jan sixth no. That's completely an American issue. 

I've said the same to you. We can offer opinions but we aren't American. They don't really mean much at all. Surely you remember that? Clearly, Manwons experience doesn't match your opinion. Have you bothered to ask him why your opinion is worthless? Wouldn't his life experience make for worthy discussion? 

Hell, Manwon and I didn't not hit it off with the first time I remember seeing him post here. We spoke, found common ground and mutual respect. These things aren't immediate. That's why our friendship although internet based is valuable. We are honest with each other and have found ways to agree to disagree amicably on those rare occasions. 

 

40 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

On a final note, I hope you see the total irony in complaining that the right wing bullies are saying you shouldn't comment on American issues because you aren't American. Do the "left wing bullies" get the same comment in that they are trying to silence those who disagree with them? There's one right in this thread and you're waxing lyrical about how good a bloke he is! 

You miss the point.

Happens to me. A lot. Especially in gun threads. 

The point is I don't cry about it or hold up other posters as a what about me argument. I take in on the chin and stand up for myself. The hypocrisy is astounding from some of those posters but I just put the waders on and get into it.

He served his country. I do offer extra respect for him as an American on that behalf. Agent Orange too. Those blokes did the hard yards and have seen sides of America you and I will never know even exist. 

That's where the snowflake bit comes in. Get on with the topic PA and stop with the poor me act. 

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5 hours ago, the13bats said:

A great example that mods have their own set of rules here.

 

To be fair, a person's place of residence is normally considered personal information and in some cases private.

Debating against a position based on a personal attribute is arguing ad hominem.

 

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