Jan 6 public hearings Live

[+DieChecker]

7 hours ago, the13bats said:

Do you believe at this point the GOP is over trump?

Not entirely. It's about 50/50 I'd guess at this point. Could very well tip away from Trump if DOJ convicts soon. 

I think if NOT convicted, and GOP wins big in 2022 November elections, he'll claim credit, and then it will turn in his favor again, IMHO. 

Edited July 28, 2022 by DieChecker

[the13bats]

12 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Not entirely. It's about 50/50 I'd guess at this point. Could very well tip away from Trump if DOJ convicts soon. 

I think if GOP wins big in 2022 November elections, he'll claim credit, and then it will turn in his favor again, IMHO. 

You really think there is any chance the DOJ will try him much less convict?

[+Link of Hyrule]

19 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

First of  all I didn’t quote anything from another thread, my quotes were all directed from this thread and directly from your responses or from my responses to you, no other thread was brought in this conversation by me!

Now sincerely thank you for says your not intentionally trying to be disingenuous, I appreciate that and I could certainly be miss reading your intentions! But please bear with and explain the following: 

This was a post l made yesterday in response to you comments, no please read again and then explain why you responded to me this morning in the following manner. When you read my post explain how you came to the conclusions you did in your response and also explain how you could have possibly taken my comments as a personal reference or attack to you in anyway. I commented on a single sentence in your post and I explained do to my personal experience during my life growing up in America or later during my life while serving in military serving in America what occurred to me personally, what happened to my wife, and what happened to one of  my soldiers in all these cases the events were first hand accounts of what I experienced personally during the events I described!  So I have no idea how you came to the conclusions you did in your response to my post please explain?

My post which this entire conversation started about based upon your response !

This is my full response that only quoted part of below, by doing this you left out an important Part that makes your response disingenuous and disrespectful, and from this point forward I made that clear,. I also made it why I don’t respect your comments and why I respect the comments of others who like you are not Americans. It has nothing to do with your not being allowed to respond I never that it has everything to do with the manner in which you respond. Please also keep in mind you have done this to me in many other posts in threads  across this this forum! This not the first time you have done this to me, or many others! You do this frequently shther you realize or not! 

My full response: I disagree with the bolded comments above, because of the fact that you did not grow up in the United States..This makes you have the view you do, it’s not a dig on you personally, it’s only a lack of experience. 

What you choose to quote:  I disagree with the bolded comments above, because of the fact that you did not grow up in the United States..

 Now do you now understand how not quoting the entire sentence makes my comments appear and why I say your disingenuous and disrespectful! It’s pretty dam obvious based upon you response below why you didn’t quote the entire sentence, because if you had your response would not have not had any traction, so it appears by your response you did this intentionally, and that’s what caused this entire exchange to occur today and I refer to you as disingenuous and disrespectfui, because the post you quoted other than that sentence did reference you in anyway negative or otherwise I just shared with why I didn’t agree with one sentence of yours I quoted. The others comments were experiences during my that explained why I didn’t agree you!
 

My response!

Then you again escalate the conversation and continue to fight and call me liar, which based upon my previous comments was out if context

My last response to you, I ask you to take the conversation to PM, so we can further discuss our differences you never responded!

So I have reread our entire conversation, Based upon that I will at this time change none of  my views. I would appreciate you at least taking the time to do the same!

One thing I can say with all honesty I hold grudges, I don’t want to or enjoy having negative exchanges with anyone I would rather put this in the rear view mirror and move on with our previous discussions forgotten. However, that depends upon you and how you decide to handle this. But please don’t make the mistake that my offer in dealing with this is a sign of weakness, that would be major mistake on your part and it would also make any chances of our possible future friendship fade to black!

 

 

 

Reread the the comments above I have stated exactly why I disqualified your comments and also why I except the comments of other Non-Americans and it has nothing to do with agreement or disagreements, and @psyche101 will tell you himself we don’t agree in everything ( like my views on Guns in the United States), and still we respect each other because we realize that no two people will ever agree on everything but that doesn’t mean we can’t still respect each and continue to be friends,

In my opinion you don’t understand this based on your comments in previous posts here, and even in the comments above !  Never said you should not comment, I made specific statements about the difference between the way I view your comments and those of others in my posts above this is why it’s important you read those posts I made to you today! So please take you time and reread them and respond later after you have though about it and then I will respond to you!

Either way this turns thank you very much for your change in tone in this post, I appreciate and hope we can get past this!

 

I've re-read the comments and I am not sure where you are coming. Instead of trying to guess, I will try to explain from my point of view why I felt disrespected and if there is a mistake I would really like to hear it and fix it. But in general, it mainly comes down to your opening paragraph: 

On 7/26/2022 at 6:34 PM, Manwon Lender said:

I disagree with the bolded comments above, because of the fact that you did not grow up in the United States..This makes you have the view you do...

The main reason this feels like an attack is the simple fact that there are other Americans besides yourself who did grow up in the United States and who do share my views. This is why I wrote in my post that you cannot possibly speak for all 330 million Americans. It feels dismissive to throw away a person's opinion because of immutable characteristics that they cannot change, perhaps even discriminatory. 

Extending this into areas outside of our current discussion, I don't believe in the mantra that you have to be gay to speak on gay issues, or that you have to be black to speak about black issues, or that you have to belong to any other demographic before you can be allowed to say something about it. But in the modern world it is increasingly the case that unless you agree with everything said by those groups then unless you are part of that group you are unable to talk about it and must refrain from talking about it or having an opinion on it. For someone like myself who believes in free speech, that to me is an unacceptable position to hold.  

Maybe it wasn't your intention to raise it that way, it's entirely possible I took the general sentiment and took it too far. But that's why I shared the satire video for "hiring a political surrogate". I'm not sure if you watched the video, but if you watch it the narrative outlines exactly why I reacted to your post. In short, the opening of the scene has a group of three white friends at a coffee shop talking about police brutality, and one of the white guys says something that appears very reasonable to me, but his two friends react like he's just said the most racist thing in the world (exact reaction from one friend - "you obviously have no idea what it's like to be black in America"; which isn't really that different to your response to me; PA must not have an idea of what it's like to be an American). Then the scene pauses and a "political surrogate" steps in, a black person who happens to say the exact same thing that the white guy says, but this time the white friends are "oh wow, that is so insightful, I haven't thought of that before" (honestly, it's quite amusing if you haven't seen it yet). 

 

So when someone says "You aren't x" where x = a demographic to which you allegedly need direct experience from before you can say something about it, I take offense to that. It's a restriction on free speech that I absolutely abhor. 

If you weren't trying to shut me down with your comments, then I guess I have just over-reacted to nothing, and I must offer a complete and hearty apology. In any case, I hope this explanation gives you a better insight into my thought processes, and if I owe you an apology please help me see where I and I am more than happy to give it. I legitimately don't go into any discussion trying to start a fight. 

Anyway, I'm just packing up for work, preparing for tomorrow, which means I probably won't be online again today (not for long, anyway). Have a great week  

~ Regards, PA

 

[psyche101]

36 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

This is a big difference between us, because I can confidently answer - No I wouldn't! Because I know that I don't speak for all Australians. If an American asked me about Australian politics I'm sure they would get a different response than if they asked you about Australian politics. Considering two Australians can't agree on Australian politics why would I silence an American who had a different opinion? Especially if the American was espousing views consistent with what other Australians say about Australian politics, even if I disagree with them I couldn't tell them to be quiet. I would say something like "I appreciate that this might be your impression/understanding of xyz based on what you have read/seen/etc, but that is not how I would categorise it, as I would categorise it as abc instead".

I can't see any reason why I would disqualify an American from talking about Australian politics simply because they aren't Australian.   

I said uniquely Australian. I didn't broad brush subject like politics. 

Oversword is a classic example. Nearly everything he posts about Australia is wrong or taken wildly out of context. Or total BS. Or any gun proponent. Some of those numpties still insist that we have a total ban on guns. Some also think we need them. An Australian know why we don't and can pick up what I'm putting down in a heartbeat. To some Americans this place truly is Oz. 

36 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

I guess we can agree to disagree on this too  

Yeah no worries. Something of a habit between you and most posters these days, including most of the Aussies on this board. 

It's a conundrum probably worth pondering.

[Grim Reaper 6]

38 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

I've re-read the comments and I am not sure where you are coming. Instead of trying to guess, I will try to explain from my point of view why I felt disrespected and if there is a mistake I would really like to hear it and fix it. But in general, it mainly comes down to your opening paragraph: 

The main reason this feels like an attack is the simple fact that there are other Americans besides yourself who did grow up in the United States and who do share my views. This is why I wrote in my post that you cannot possibly speak for all 330 million Americans. It feels dismissive to throw away a person's opinion because of immutable characteristics that they cannot change, perhaps even discriminatory. 

Extending this into areas outside of our current discussion, I don't believe in the mantra that you have to be gay to speak on gay issues, or that you have to be black to speak about black issues, or that you have to belong to any other demographic before you can be allowed to say something about it. But in the modern world it is increasingly the case that unless you agree with everything said by those groups then unless you are part of that group you are unable to talk about it and must refrain from talking about it or having an opinion on it. For someone like myself who believes in free speech, that to me is an unacceptable position to hold.  

Maybe it wasn't your intention to raise it that way, it's entirely possible I took the general sentiment and took it too far. But that's why I shared the satire video for "hiring a political surrogate". I'm not sure if you watched the video, but if you watch it the narrative outlines exactly why I reacted to your post. In short, the opening of the scene has a group of three white friends at a coffee shop talking about police brutality, and one of the white guys says something that appears very reasonable to me, but his two friends react like he's just said the most racist thing in the world (exact reaction from one friend - "you obviously have no idea what it's like to be black in America"; which isn't really that different to your response to me; PA must not have an idea of what it's like to be an American). Then the scene pauses and a "political surrogate" steps in, a black person who happens to say the exact same thing that the white guy says, but this time the white friends are "oh wow, that is so insightful, I haven't thought of that before" (honestly, it's quite amusing if you haven't seen it yet). 

 

So when someone says "You aren't x" where x = a demographic to which you allegedly need direct experience from before you can say something about it, I take offense to that. It's a restriction on free speech that I absolutely abhor. 

If you weren't trying to shut me down with your comments, then I guess I have just over-reacted to nothing, and I must offer a complete and hearty apology. In any case, I hope this explanation gives you a better insight into my thought processes, and if I owe you an apology please help me see where I and I am more than happy to give it. I legitimately don't go into any discussion trying to start a fight. 

Anyway, I'm just packing up for work, preparing for tomorrow, which means I probably won't be online again today (not for long, anyway). Have a great week  

~ Regards, PA

 

Fine because you are unable comprehend anything even clearly stated you the same thing again above.

Here is your quote : I disagree with the bolded comments above, because of the fact that you did not grow up in the United States..This makes you have the view you do...

Do you not see the difference, in 5 paragraphs that was the only comes that even referenced you!!

Here is my actually quote : Here is the fill sentence that again you intentionally failed to quote: I disagree with the bolded comments above, because of the fact that you did not grow up in the United States..This makes you have the view you do, it’s not a dig on you personally, it’s only a lack of experience.

Please don't worry about it, we will just move forward and my opinion of you will never change, you just reinforce everything I said. Now if you were a not intelligent person I would let it go, because I will harass the mentally challenged however that is not the case so you are intentionally just doing what you do and continuing be disingenuous and trying to insult my intelligence !!!!! Everyone is aware of your action and behavior except you, I have received PMs by people who understand what I am referring to yet sadly you are just willing not admit it what you doing, so please don't bother me again ever!!!!!!!!!!!!

@psyche101 this is comical but expected!

@the13bats well I tried

Edited July 28, 2022 by Manwon Lender

[Grim Reaper 6]

30 minutes ago, the13bats said:

You really think there is any chance the DOJ will try him much less convict?

I certainly do, hell for two days that all the media is talking about and the Attoney General of the United States is giving interview after interview hinting at the fact that charges are being preferred against hi and his Inner Circle of Creeps are jumping ship and testifying against him! Trump freaking out right now, even his rally was terrible cimoared to the past and its all because of the pressure on his chest!

[Golden Duck]

1 hour ago, Paranoid Android said:

This is a big difference between us, because I can confidently answer - No I wouldn't! Because I know that I don't speak for all Australians. If an American asked me about Australian politics I'm sure they would get a different response than if they asked you about Australian politics. Considering two Australians can't agree on Australian politics why would I silence an American who had a different opinion? Especially if the American was espousing views consistent with what other Australians say about Australian politics, even if I disagree with them I couldn't tell them to be quiet. I would say something like "I appreciate that this might be your impression/understanding of xyz based on what you have read/seen/etc, but that is not how I would categorise it, as I would categorise it as abc instead".

I can't see any reason why I would disqualify an American from talking about Australian politics simply because they aren't Australian.   

 

I guess we can agree to disagree on this too  

It's a typical Aussie question to ask "whaddaya think o' the place?"  We seem to have this ciltural need of affirmation.

I don't recall any Aussie hand-waving an opinion away on the basis of residency.  Bedsides it being an ad hominem argument its at odds with the Aussie mindset - ie hypocritical, or even worse... un-Australian.

You're far more likely to be given solutions that may alleviate the need to whinge, or just get called out on superfluous fertilizing.

[+DieChecker]

37 minutes ago, the13bats said:

You really think there is any chance the DOJ will try him much less convict?

I think there's a chance. I do think even if convicted, it could be little more then a slap on the wrist.

But if that happens, there's big opportunity for sideliners to step up and take chunks of his minions as their own.

[the13bats]

1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

I think there's a chance. I do think even if convicted, it could be little more then a slap on the wrist.

But if that happens, there's big opportunity for sideliners to step up and take chunks of his minions as their own.

If hes convicted i could see it having a deep hitting psychological effect on him, he looses re election, then gets hit with something like blame for the 6th, after a while even he will accept people are laughing at him not with him.

Edited July 28, 2022 by the13bats
#$%%#$ typo

[the13bats]

33 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

@the13bats well I tried

More than i would have, his games are as transparent as top shelf Gin

[Grim Reaper 6]

3 minutes ago, the13bats said:

More than i would have, his games are as transparent as top shelf Gin

Yes sir, but after he was proven wrong about not ever being told by me about my disability, it was pointed out to him that he was wrong and  his remarks were out of line, it was also pointed that we should try to get along which I did, now it’s time as far as he is concerned to fade to black!

Edited July 28, 2022 by Manwon Lender

[+Link of Hyrule]

50 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

@the13bats well I tried

So did I. Goodbye, Mr Lender  

  

22 minutes ago, the13bats said:

More than i would have, his games are as transparent as top shelf Gin

As non-existent as my top shelf gin (I don't drink, 3 years sober). 

[Grim Reaper 6]

4 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

So did I. Goodbye, Mr Lender  

  

As non-existent as my top shelf gin (I don't drink, 3 years sober). 

No your the same disingenuous individual who fabricates and intentionally deceives others, however the apology I made earlier I retract it because Tiggs did prove you intentionally lied about not being aware of my comments concerning the TBI and upon further digging you did unsuitable me after you were told! So yes you do intentionally attack disabled Veterans because if their disability!  He put you in your place and which was very fitting, especially the way you responded!

So just like numerous people here have  confirmed you as described, the floor is all  yours, I will respond directly to you again, oh and the  don’t slip on the poop!

[the13bats]

12 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

So did I. Goodbye, Mr Lender  

  

As non-existent as my top shelf gin (I don't drink, 3 years sober). 

Thats super!

Thought you were running off to get ready for work?

Just because you dont have gin your reply to my analogy is still a stunning example of the games you play and how utterly transparent they are.

You got busted making fun of a persons TBI, at least own it.

 

[+Link of Hyrule]

33 minutes ago, the13bats said:

You got busted making fun of a persons TBI, at least own it.

Can't own what I didn't do. I can admit that I didn't know what TBI stood for 24 hours ago, and now it's been blown into this big issue,  which I AM apologetic for. 

I don't make fun of people like that,  it's not who I am!!!!

[Tiggs]

1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

No your the same disingenuous individual who fabricates and intentionally deceives others, however the apology I made earlier I retract it because Tiggs did prove you intentionally lied about not being aware of my comments concerning the TBI and upon further digging you did unsuitable me after you were told! 

From my perspective — I genuinely believe it was a misunderstanding, rather than intentional.

Believe TBI's not a widely-known abbreviation outside of the medical profession, unless you know someone diagnosed with it. I had to Google it, when I saw it.

I've known PA a long time — and though we fight like cats and dogs on pretty much everything, I've never seen anything that would lead me to think he would make fun of anyone's disabilities.
 

[Grim Reaper 6]

48 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

From my perspective — I genuinely believe it was a misunderstanding, rather than intentional.

Believe TBI's not a widely-known abbreviation outside of the medical profession, unless you know someone diagnosed with it. I had to Google it, when I saw it.

I've known PA a long time — and though we fight like cats and dogs on pretty much everything, I've never seen anything that would lead me to think he would make fun of anyone's disabilities.
 

Tiggs I respect you opinion, based upon reading many of your comments in threads! So I will let this die and move on while it may not appear to be so In reality I hold no grudges. Each day that we have left is a new beginning and life is far to short to waste it on petty differences!

Thanks for your intervention in this situation, I am sure it’s helped everyone involved

[preacherman76]

5 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Not entirely. It's about 50/50 I'd guess at this point. Could very well tip away from Trump if DOJ convicts soon. 

I think if NOT convicted, and GOP wins big in 2022 November elections, he'll claim credit, and then it will turn in his favor again, IMHO. 

GOP wins big in November regardless of any arrests. People are not cool with 5 dollar gas, and 40% inflation on food prices. Economy is always the deciding factor in tough times. Most people on all sides think the country is moving in the wrong direction. 

[lightly]

I don’t think Biden or Trump can win in 2024… they are both losing supporters.  Most think uncle joe is too old ..and most think trump is nuts.  Most are correct.   …eta:     neither will win the nomination.  

Edited July 28, 2022 by lightly

[rashore]

All righty folks. Knock it off with discussing each other and derailing the OP topic. Discuss the OP, not each other. 

rashore, moderating team

[+Liquid Gardens]

11 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

Is 100% of the Australian population racist? Does the private media of Australia continually churn out racist material? The answer to both questions is "no", so this is a hypothetical question that doesn't resemble the truth.

Yes, just like your "if I had personal experience of all 25 million Australians" which I was replying to.  Funny how the allowance of the use of hypotheticals that don't resemble the truth to make a point are suddenly no longer applicable.  But not surprising unfortunately.

You really aren't faring too well with this racism (off)topic, I thought your, "indigenous Australians disproportionately commit more crimes" especially was a howler.  Does Australia have an extremely high rate of solving crimes or something?  In the US as of a few years ago about 46% of violent crimes resulted in an arrest and only 18% of property crimes.  I think you mean indigenous Australians are disproportionately arrested/convicted of crimes, and there are explanations, pretty obvious ones, that potentially explain that disparity besides they are committing 'more' crimes.  If the justice system was at all racist then this is exactly what we'd expect, right?

Edited July 28, 2022 by Liquid Gardens

[+Desertrat56]

2 hours ago, lightly said:

I don’t think Biden or Trump can win in 2024… they are both losing supporters.  Most think uncle joe is too old ..and most think trump is nuts.  Most are correct.   …eta:     neither will win the nomination.  

I don't think either of them will even be considered.   I am thinking that Trump's announcement to run will cause some more republicans to support the Jan 6th investigations, just to keep from having to tell him he can run on their ticket in 2024.

[Michelle]

I thought Trump announced yesterday he wasn't going to run.

[+DieChecker]

4 minutes ago, Michelle said:

I thought Trump announced yesterday he wasn't going to run.

Haven't seen anything on that just yet.

[+Desertrat56]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-lose-rnc-funding-legal-bills-announces-2024-candidacy-report

I was right, the republicans will not support him if he wants to run in 2024.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-rnc-has-been-helping-trump-pay-his-legal-bills-but-will-pull-the-plug-once-he-kicks-off-his-2024-campaign-report/ar-AA103kyt

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rnc-to-trump-if-you-run-for-president-we-stop-paying-your-legal-bills-per-official/ar-AA10256r

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-and-pence-inch-toward-2024-showdown-in-a-capital-still-grappling-with-how-the-2020-election-ended/ar-AA100eXJ

I didn't realize how many news media are part of MSN.  Searching for CNN & ABC both pulled MSN links.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Desertrat56