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Jan 6 public hearings Live


spartan max2
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Posted (edited)

I do find it concerning, but not surprising, that Trump has not disowned the Oath keepers and proud boys. 

Extremist groups who have members that are being charged with conspiracy and sedation. Extremist who planned and then did coordinate storming the Capital under the belief they were doing what Trump wanted them to do. 

As a previous president when extremist groups think they are acting on your behalf it is your duty to disown them.

His silent certainly looks like consent. 

Edited by spartan max2
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23 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I do find it concerning, but not surprising, that Trump has not disowned the Oath keepers and proud boys. 

Extremist groups who have members that are being charged with conspiracy and sedation. Extremist who planned and then did coordinate storming the Capital under the belief they were doing what Trump wanted them to do. 

As a previous president when extremist groups think they are acting on your behalf it is your duty to disown them.

His silent certainly looks like consent. 

You are misinformed. https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54381500

In an interview with Fox News on Thursday he explicitly condemned the Proud Boys group which in the debate he had urged to "stand back and stand by".

Members of the far-right group had regarded his comment as an endorsement.

Senior Republicans also expressed unease over the remarks, and attempts by Mr Trump to walk back the comments at a news conference on Wednesday failed to end the controversy.: 

In an interview with Sean Hannity on Thursday evening President Trump said: "I've said it many times, let me be clear again, I condemn the KKK [Ku Klux Klan]. I condemn all white supremacists. I condemn the Proud Boys.

 

I hereby challenge Spartan Max2 to rescind his previous statement. 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Fraust said:

You are misinformed. https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54381500

In an interview with Fox News on Thursday he explicitly condemned the Proud Boys group which in the debate he had urged to "stand back and stand by".

Members of the far-right group had regarded his comment as an endorsement.

Senior Republicans also expressed unease over the remarks, and attempts by Mr Trump to walk back the comments at a news conference on Wednesday failed to end the controversy.: 

In an interview with Sean Hannity on Thursday evening President Trump said: "I've said it many times, let me be clear again, I condemn the KKK [Ku Klux Klan]. I condemn all white supremacists. I condemn the Proud Boys.

 

I hereby challenge Spartan Max2 to rescind his previous statement. 

Stand back and stand by was never a condemnation. And the proud boys took it as encouragement. Think about it. Who tf says "stand back and stand by" as a way to condemn a extremist group? 

Though I am happy that Trump condemned the Proud boys. Though he could be a little more... explicit about it. Which Trump easily does when it's other Republicans, antifa, Democrats. Pretty much anyone other than extremist groups that support him. 

This condemnation he did was before they stormed the white house. And they stormed the white house believing they were doing what Trump wanted.

But yes, it appears he did say he condems them.

Quote

In an interview with Sean Hannity on Thursday evening President Trump said: "I've said it many times, let me be clear again, I condemn the KKK [Ku Klux Klan]. I condemn all white supremacists. I condemn the Proud Boys.

 

"I don't know much about the Proud Boys, almost nothing, but I condemn that."

 

Edited by spartan max2
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Autochthon1990 said:

Right it was such a hoax that half his campaign staff got indicted for playing footsie with Russia...

Much like Al Capone, you have other people do bad things for you so that you can't be charged with anything.

As we see on UM, your supporters will say 1) there are no legal charges so "nonething" to be upset about. 

And, if there are charges than 2) it's a liberal witch hunt.

Edited by spartan max2
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23 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Stand back and stand by was never a condemnation. And the proud boys took it as encouragement. Think about it. Who tf says "stand back and stand by" as a way to condemn a extremist group? 

Though I am happy that Trump condemned the Proud boys. Though he could be a little more... explicit about it. Which Trump easily does when it's other Republicans, antifa, Democrats. Pretty much anyone other than extremist groups that support him. 

This condemnation he did was before they stormed the white house. And they stormed the white house believing they were doing what Trump wanted.

But yes, it appears he did say he condems them.

 

1. Trump, a poor orator. 

2. For the life of me, I cant find anything the proud boys have done comparable to the riots that BLM started that resulted in dozens of deaths and billions of dollars property damage. I cant find them even linked to riots, except this example where Seattle police lied about them being present to start something for whatever reason police do such stupid crap https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-police-improperly-faked-radio-chatter-about-proud-boys-as-chop-formed-in-2020-investigation-finds/

3. What they believe has little to do with Trump. People believe god tells them to open businesses and murder their children. Belief is a personal matter I find hard to pin on exterior sources. 

 

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1 minute ago, Fraust said:

1. Trump, a poor orator. 

2. For the life of me, I cant find anything the proud boys have done comparable to the riots that BLM started that resulted in dozens of deaths and billions of dollars property damage. I cant find them even linked to riots, except this example where Seattle police lied about them being present to start something for whatever reason police do such stupid crap https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-police-improperly-faked-radio-chatter-about-proud-boys-as-chop-formed-in-2020-investigation-finds/

3. What they believe has little to do with Trump. People believe god tells them to open businesses and murder their children. Belief is a personal matter I find hard to pin on exterior sources. 

 

For ****s sake dude. The Proud Boys and Oath Keepers organized and led the storming of our capital to stop the certification of the election. Causing the death of multiple police officers and the Oath Keepers had a plan to find Pelosi. 

Trump has no problem making strong statements of condemnation against everyone and everything else, such as other politicians, antifa, Democrats, etc. But when it comes to proud boys and extremist groups who act in his name it's 

Quote

"I don't know much about the Proud Boys, almost nothing, but I condemn that."

As President/former president it's your responsibility to tell extremist groups that they are not acting on your behalf. It's not hard to do that. 

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Posted (IP: Staff) ·
12 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Trying to stop the counting of votes in Congress, is obstruction and it is illegal.

As well as appearing to be part of a conspiracy to defraud the United States:

The panel says the evidence it has accumulated points to Trump and his allies illegally obstructing an official proceeding — Congress' counting of the Electoral College votes. The committee adds in the filing that it "has a good-faith basis for concluding that the President and members of his Campaign engaged in a criminal conspiracy to defraud the United States."

The filing details:

"The evidence supports an inference that President Trump, Plaintiff, and several others entered into an agreement to defraud the United States by interfering with the election certification process, disseminating false information about election fraud, and pressuring state officials to alter state election results and federal officials to assist in that effort."


Source: NPR

 

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47 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

As well as appearing to be part of a conspiracy to defraud the United States:

The panel says the evidence it has accumulated points to Trump and his allies illegally obstructing an official proceeding — Congress' counting of the Electoral College votes. The committee adds in the filing that it "has a good-faith basis for concluding that the President and members of his Campaign engaged in a criminal conspiracy to defraud the United States."

The filing details:

"The evidence supports an inference that President Trump, Plaintiff, and several others entered into an agreement to defraud the United States by interfering with the election certification process, disseminating false information about election fraud, and pressuring state officials to alter state election results and federal officials to assist in that effort."


Source: NPR

 

Didn't realize Georgia's attorney general was looking into charges 

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/20/1074417449/district-attorney-in-georgia-asks-for-a-special-grand-jury-for-trump-election-pr

 

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4 hours ago, Fraust said:

You are misinformed. https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54381500

In an interview with Fox News on Thursday he explicitly condemned the Proud Boys group which in the debate he had urged to "stand back and stand by".

Members of the far-right group had regarded his comment as an endorsement.

Senior Republicans also expressed unease over the remarks, and attempts by Mr Trump to walk back the comments at a news conference on Wednesday failed to end the controversy.: 

In an interview with Sean Hannity on Thursday evening President Trump said: "I've said it many times, let me be clear again, I condemn the KKK [Ku Klux Klan]. I condemn all white supremacists. I condemn the Proud Boys.

 

I hereby challenge Spartan Max2 to rescind his previous statement. 

The damage is done, and the Proud Boys and the rest will look at these most recent comments and think, ‘Well, he has to say that now to protect himself. We know what he really thinks’. Which, of course, is absolutely true.

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14 hours ago, Tiggs said:

As well as appearing to be part of a conspiracy to defraud the United States:

The panel says the evidence it has accumulated points to Trump and his allies illegally obstructing an official proceeding — Congress' counting of the Electoral College votes. The committee adds in the filing that it "has a good-faith basis for concluding that the President and members of his Campaign engaged in a criminal conspiracy to defraud the United States."

The filing details:

"The evidence supports an inference that President Trump, Plaintiff, and several others entered into an agreement to defraud the United States by interfering with the election certification process, disseminating false information about election fraud, and pressuring state officials to alter state election results and federal officials to assist in that effort."


Source: NPR

 

Lock them up

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5 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

From the article:

Quote

A federal judge has agreed that Eastman’s strategy likely veered into criminal territory. U.S. District Court Judge David Carter ruled in March that Eastman’s legal theories were outcome-driven and unsupported — he dubbed it “a coup in search of a legal theory” — and that effort to obstruct the counting of electoral votes likely amounted to a criminal conspiracy with Trump.

How anyone can continue to deny the reality of this situation is beyond me.

I notice @Michelle has been utterly silent on this matter. I’d love to know what she thinks about this and also what she has to say about the disgraceful Fox News coverage of the hearing.

And @DieChecker come to think about it.

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11 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

 

You are aware that Tucker argued in court that he isn’t a journalist, and that no one is stupid enough to believe his ramblings are journalism or to be taken as fact?

His opinion has about as much value as Venezuelan currency. He, in this case, is also an outright liar, presenting an alternate reality to Fox viewers.

Doesn’t matter though. Fox viewership absolutely tanked during the hearing, even with them removing commercials to keep people from changing the channel, so their viewers are seeing and hearing what really happened.

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Posted (edited)

No one on TV is a “journalist” anymore. Thanks for the news flash, Is that the issue or it is just that you don’t like what he said? I’m skeptical you even startded to watch it, Meanwhile, you are on the receiving end of a string of false stories pushed by “not journalists” and it hasn’t shaken your faith in the narrative any, 

 

Edited by el midgetron
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Pence lawyer to Trump lawyer:

Quote

“I respect your heart here,” replied Jacob. “I share your concerns about what Democrats will do once in power. I want election integrity fixed. But I have run down every legal trail placed before me to its conclusion, and I respectfully conclude that as a legal framework, it is a results oriented position that you would never support if attempted by the opposition, and essentially entirely made up.”

“And thanks to your bull****,” he continued, “we are now under siege.”

 

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29 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

No one on TV is a “journalist” anymore. Thanks for the news flash, Is that the issue or it is just that you don’t like what he said? I’m skeptical you even startded to watch it, Meanwhile, you are on the receiving end of a string of false stories pushed by “not journalists” and it hasn’t shaken your faith in the narrative any, 

 

Except there are plenty of journalists on the TV. None of them have had to claim in court that they weren’t and that their supporters would be dumb to believe that they were. Well, except Tucker Carlson and Fox News, of course.

I had already read articles about his propaganda broadcast during the hearings.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/jun/09/us-capitol-attack-hearings-fox-news

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

From the article:

How anyone can continue to deny the reality of this situation is beyond me.

I notice @Michelle has been utterly silent on this matter. I’d love to know what she thinks about this and also what she has to say about the disgraceful Fox News coverage of the hearing.

And @DieChecker come to think about it.

Well, I think, for starters, it is entirely a show trial. And aimed exclusively at Mr Trump. I'm not a fanatical follower of Trump. And he surely has some guilt in inciting the crowd. But the levels of venom, and bile, involved has me so I just can't give a rip what these hearing come out with. 

Several people died, and a lot of SUPER IMPORTANT politicians thought they were in danger. So it was a real tragedy. But we're seeing tragedy nearly daily now with shootings, Ukraine, the economy, Covid19, so I beg off making this into a big circus to try to raise the Democrat scorecard before the fall elections. Partisan politics is the main reason for these hearings. 

Liz Cheney, though I respect her to be an individual, I feel is motivated, not by seeking the truth, but vendetta against Trump. 

Edited by DieChecker
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4 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Well, I think, for starters, it is entirely a show trial. And aimed exclusively at Mr Trump. I'm not a fanatical follower of Trump. And he surely has some guilt in inciting the crowd. But the levels of venom, and bile, involved has me so I just can't give a rip what these hearing come out with. 

Several people died, and a lot of SUPER IMPORTANT politicians thought they were in danger. So it was a real tragedy. But we're seeing tragedy nearly daily now with shootings, Ukraine, the economy, Covid19, so I beg off making this into a big circus to try to raise the Democrat scorecard before the fall elections. Partisan politics is the main reason for these hearings. 

Liz Cheney, though I respect her to be an individual, I feel is motivated, not by seeking the truth, but vendetta against Trump. 

It was literally an attempted coup. :lol:

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29 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

And aimed exclusively at Mr Trump

Not really, others in his inner circle in those days are being called out, and if trump and his closest aides were planning to prevent the legal declaration of a president - merely because trump's ego couldn't cope with it, that should most definitely be called out. Or do you think Trump should be above being called out on such actions 

 

33 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

And he surely has some guilt in inciting the crowd.

And perhaps these proceedings will show that Trump and his inner circle where involved way beyond  incitement of a crowd. 

There is no doubt he was given 'legal' advice on actions he could take and competing advice that such actions were illegal - he made the call - at the least he is complicit. The only defence (not that is a defence) he could have is stupidity. 

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36 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

It was literally an attempted coup. :lol:

If so, one of the worst attempts ever in the entire history of the entire world. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

Not really, others in his inner circle in those days are being called out, and if trump and his closest aides were planning to prevent the legal declaration of a president - merely because trump's ego couldn't cope with it, that should most definitely be called out. Or do you think Trump should be above being called out on such actions 

So far I've not heard, or seen, any testimony I'd not have suspected anyway.

Naturally he's not above the law. And he should be held to account of his participation. I think he wound up the crowd, and then didn't try to close them down. 

I dont honest believe he expected a crowd of crazed rioters to change the Senate count. I think it was more of revenge, and sour grapes that got out of hand.

Quote

And perhaps these proceedings will show that Trump and his inner circle where involved way beyond  incitement of a crowd. 

There is no doubt he was given 'legal' advice on actions he could take and competing advice that such actions were illegal - he made the call - at the least he is complicit. The only defence (not that is a defence) he could have is stupidity. 

Well, perhaps, but I feel that saying Trump was the mastermind and laid out plans well ahead of time... Is right up there with saying Bush preloaded explosives for the 9-11 attacked buildings of the WTC so they would fall and justify his war. Seems very much a stretch to me. I think his incitement of the crowd was simply bitterness mixed with opportunism. 

Edited by DieChecker
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41 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

If so, one of the worst attempts ever in the entire history of the entire world. 

Oh, it definitely was an attempted coup. At this point it’s simply not possible to deny that.

How bad an attempt it was is a matter of opinion. He actually wasn’t too far away from it succeeding.

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35 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I dont honest believe he expected a crowd of crazed rioters to change the Senate count. I think it was more of revenge, and sour grapes that got out of hand.

You should probably start watching the hearings.

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Just now, ExpandMyMind said:

You should probably start watching the hearings.

I'll read the Clif-Notes next year. I just can't care about a openly prejudiced investigation while the circus is performing.

Is there a website with an abstract of whats happened so far? I see articles every day with various headlines, but I know FOX and CNN, and MSNBC, all have their agendas, so reading them isn't the whole picture, or even a sliver of the picture. The articles are always fragmented, cherry picked, one sided exposition of why they are right in some specific opinion.

Don't we already know what will be decided? As with the Mueller Report and so on. The final result will be Trump created a riot that resulted in a near insurrection. And he'll get some slap on the wrist punishment, which won't even prevent him running for 2024.

Everything going on now is simply Political Theater.

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