+Hammerclaw Posted June 13, 2022 #51 Share Posted June 13, 2022 We are the Universe, birthed into consciousness and make aware of itself, asking the same question, over and over again, that is to say: Why? That is the question we, as the Universe, must answer for ourselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davros of Skaro Posted June 13, 2022 #52 Share Posted June 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Guyver said: I see you have all levels pinned. Max out. That's how the universe rolls. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightly Posted June 13, 2022 #53 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said: We are the Universe, birthed into consciousness and make aware of itself, asking the same question, over and over again, that is to say: Why? That is the question we, as the Universe, must answer for ourselves. I like that a lot Hammer. Yup Why? is our favorite question.. I gotta wonder ,though, if being IS the answer! .. Too simple I guess, prolly never catch on. Edited June 13, 2022 by lightly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted June 13, 2022 #54 Share Posted June 13, 2022 1 hour ago, lightly said: I like that a lot Hammer. Yup Why? is our favorite question.. I gotta wonder ,though, if being IS the answer! .. Too simple I guess, prolly never catch on. Why not? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted June 13, 2022 Author #55 Share Posted June 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Will Due said: I know. The reason why I replied is because I think thinking that God needs blood sacrifice for anyone's sake, is anything but a joke. But I understand why you laughed. I agree with you and that’s why I don’t believe in the God of the Bible. Blood sacrifice for the one who made all things with blood seems highly counterintuitive to me. You’re prolly right, that notion came from man, but the Bible claims it was Gods idea. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightly Posted June 13, 2022 #56 Share Posted June 13, 2022 35 minutes ago, Guyver said: I agree with you and that’s why I don’t believe in the God of the Bible. Blood sacrifice for the one who made all things with blood seems highly counterintuitive to me. You’re prolly right, that notion came from man, but the Bible claims it was Gods idea. Hi Guyver. I don’t recall hearing that before…that god made all things with blood. ..? As for Bible claims… *They followed him into a ship, He was sleeping through the storm. He arose and rebuked the wind and sea. They made it to the other shore.*. .. *Where the multitudes followed him. Only had two fish, and some bread. He told them all to sit down on the ground, the multitudes were fed ! <those are some lines from a very old (sort of mountain gospel) song of mine I reworded Jesus’ miracles in plain language. I didn’t think you’d mind that^ little off topic ,but music related, bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coil Posted June 13, 2022 #57 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Guyver said: I agree with you and that’s why I don’t believe in the God of the Bible. Blood sacrifice for the one who made all things with blood seems highly counterintuitive to me. You’re prolly right, that notion came from man, but the Bible claims it was Gods idea. The Bible needs to be able to be understood correctly, but it can be misunderstood by logic. Comments on the Bible are needed. If you stay within the Bible, it will confuse the minds of believers and will undermine your faith in God and God is always right and always works right. But it happens that for God there are unfavorable circumstances on earth, no matter how many options you go through, and then outwardly it may seem that God made a mistake, but this is not so, you just need to know the hidden events. In those days, there was a danger that humanity could break away from God, get carried away by two hostile creatures (Lucifer and Ahriman) and go to non-physical worlds, and this is already a serious threat to God's plan. To prevent this, a council was held in heaven where they decided to send the earth of one of the solar spirits in order to fix humanity on earth by giving them a new faith that will overcome the influence of these two hostile beings. Christ sacrificed himself by purifying people and giving them the opportunity to be constantly born on earth without fear of separation from our planet. Christ loves mankind immensely, therefore he agreed to this sacrifice. After all, even on earth there are cases when rescuers or soldiers sacrifice themselves for the sake of saving people. And if a threat to most of humanity, then a great sacrifice is needed by a spiritual person. So, as Wiil Due said above, we are to blame for the fact that we are inclined to the bad and God has to go to the rescue of mankind. Because God has put himself in us and saves us while we go astray because man is an unstable creature. Previously, when a person lived with the gods, there was no danger because the gods were nearby, and when the gods left, we constantly need spiritual teachers and religions so as not to go astray. Edited June 13, 2022 by Coil 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted June 13, 2022 #58 Share Posted June 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Guyver said: I agree with you and that’s why I don’t believe in the God of the Bible. Blood sacrifice for the one who made all things with blood seems highly counterintuitive to me. You’re prolly right, that notion came from man, but the Bible claims it was Gods idea. Fortunately for all of us, the Bible isn't God. God is something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted June 13, 2022 #59 Share Posted June 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Will Due said: God is something else. God is an idea. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted June 13, 2022 #60 Share Posted June 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, XenoFish said: God is an idea. Alright Xeno. In a person's thoughts, yes, God most assuredly is an idea. But that's not all that he is. The greatest concept of God, and you can tell me if there's a better one, is that he's the Father of all. And that a part of him is present on the inside. There to guide us in finding the best way to think about all of our ideas. Most of all the ideas about God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted June 13, 2022 #61 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Just now, Will Due said: Alright Xeno. In a person's thoughts, yes, God most assuredly is an idea. But that's not all that he is. The greatest concept of God, and you can tell me if there's a better one, is that he's the Father of all. And that a part of him is present on the inside. There to guide us in finding the best way to think about all of our ideas. Most of all the ideas about God. God is an idea. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted June 13, 2022 #62 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Just now, XenoFish said: God is an idea. Yes, God is an idea. An idea that can include that he is something else besides just an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted June 13, 2022 Author #63 Share Posted June 13, 2022 38 minutes ago, lightly said: Hi Guyver. I don’t recall hearing that before…that god made all things with blood. ..? As for Bible claims… *They followed him into a ship, He was sleeping through the storm. He arose and rebuked the wind and sea. They made it to the other shore.*. .. *Where the multitudes followed him. Only had two fish, and some bread. He told them all to sit down on the ground, the multitudes were fed ! <those are some lines from a very old (sort of mountain gospel) song of mine I reworded Jesus’ miracles in plain language. I didn’t think you’d mind that^ little off topic ,but music related, bit. Hi Lightly. You won’t find that “all things with blood” in the Bible. I added that for reference. The Bible claims that God made all things, the earth and universe first, though the word heaven is used in the Bible, not universe, and then all things that live on the earth or in the sea, so that means God made all things. By identifying things with blood, I was hoping to show how unlikely it would be for the God who gave life to all things to be pleased by the spilling of animal blood as a pleasing sacrifice to him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted June 13, 2022 #64 Share Posted June 13, 2022 God is, originally, ancient man’s explanation for the unknown based on what mankind WANTS to be true. cormac 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted June 13, 2022 #65 Share Posted June 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Will Due said: Yes, God is an idea. An idea that can include that he is something else besides just an idea. No. Just an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted June 13, 2022 #66 Share Posted June 13, 2022 1 minute ago, XenoFish said: No. Just an idea. Well, most people have an idea about God. What's your idea Xeno? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted June 13, 2022 Author #67 Share Posted June 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, Will Due said: Well, most people have an idea about God. What's your idea Xeno? His idea of God is that God is simply an idea. He's said it like fifty times already. That's what he believes about God. In other words, he believes that God exists only in the minds of people, and not as an independent person of his own. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted June 13, 2022 #68 Share Posted June 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Guyver said: His idea of God is that God is simply an idea. He's said it like fifty times already. That's what he believes about God. In other words, he believes that God exists only in the minds of people, and not as an independent person of his own. It sucks when you have to explain the obvious doesn’t it? cormac 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted June 13, 2022 #69 Share Posted June 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Guyver said: His idea of God is that God is simply an idea. He's said it like fifty times already. That's what he believes about God. In other words, he believes that God exists only in the minds of people, and not as an independent person of his own. Well if that's true then he's light years ahead of where some people seem to be. At least having the idea that God is only an idea is miles ahead of someone who believes that God is nothing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted June 13, 2022 #70 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Since it's being repetitively touted that God is only an idea, then I will repeat that it is through thoughts, which include ideas, that a person is led Godward. It's a beautiful thing to keep thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted June 13, 2022 Author #71 Share Posted June 13, 2022 37 minutes ago, Coil said: The Bible needs to be able to be understood correctly, but it can be misunderstood by logic. Comments on the Bible are needed. If you stay within the Bible, it will confuse the minds of believers and will undermine your faith in God and God is always right and always works right. But it happens that for God there are unfavorable circumstances on earth, no matter how many options you go through, and then outwardly it may seem that God made a mistake, but this is not so, you just need to know the hidden events. Hello Coil, Who gets to decide if the bible is being understood correctly? That's the problem that I have with this point. You say the bible can be misunderstood by logic and that comments on the Bible are needed. Who's comments? A pastor? A priest? A bishop? A bible scholar? As far as God being perfect....that could be true. But, there are certainly unfavorable circumstances on Earth on a really high level, so that plus the fact that God can't be interacted with in any understandable ways makes it even more difficult. Quote In those days, there was a danger that humanity could break away from God, get carried away by two hostile creatures (Lucifer and Ahriman) and go to non-physical worlds, and this is already a serious threat to God's plan. To prevent this, a council was held in heaven where they decided to send the earth of one of the solar spirits in order to fix humanity on earth by giving them a new faith that will overcome the influence of these two hostile beings. Christ sacrificed himself by purifying people and giving them the opportunity to be constantly born on earth without fear of separation from our planet. Christ loves mankind immensely, therefore he agreed to this sacrifice. After all, even on earth there are cases when rescuers or soldiers sacrifice themselves for the sake of saving people. And if a threat to most of humanity, then a great sacrifice is needed by a spiritual person. So, as Wiil Due said above, we are to blame for the fact that we are inclined to the bad and God has to go to the rescue of mankind. Because God has put himself in us and saves us while we go astray because man is an unstable creature. Previously, when a person lived with the gods, there was no danger because the gods were nearby, and when the gods left, we constantly need spiritual teachers and religions so as not to go astray. I don't know where you get these ideas, it sounds like a fantasy story to me. On your point about sacrifice, the bible says that there is no greater love than for a man (person) to lay his life down for his friends. In the case of a soldier in a fox hole throwing himself on a grenade to save his fellow soldiers, yes, I agree that is a sacrifice and an act of love. Yet, all the people that soldier saved in that act of dying to save others, will eventually die themselves, as will all living things - since that is the way of all things on this planet. They die. To equate God's sacrifice of Jesus to save humanity to a soldier dying for his friends is lacking a bit, I believe. Jesus is said to have died for the sins of the world so that all could be saved. Yet, in the new Testament book of 1 Corinthians 13 (the love chapter) it says love keeps no record of a wrong done. So, if God is love and love keeps no record of a wrong done, Christs sacrifice would be unnecessary. God could have simply forgiven all sins because he wished to. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted June 13, 2022 Author #72 Share Posted June 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, Will Due said: Well if that's true then he's light years ahead of where some people seem to be. At least having the idea that God is only an idea is miles ahead of someone who believes that God is nothing at all. By saying that God is an idea, he is in fact saying that God is nothing at all - in a sense. God existing as an idea is no different than fairies or magical unicorns existing as ideas. We can think of just about anything, but our thoughts don't make those things exist in reality. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted June 13, 2022 #73 Share Posted June 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Will Due said: Since it's being repetitively touted that God is only an idea, then I will repeat that it is through thoughts, which include ideas, that a person is led Godward. It's a beautiful thing to keep thinking. The idea of God is no more real than the idea of The Pink Panther being real. cormac 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted June 13, 2022 #74 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Guyver said: God can't be interacted with in any understandable ways That's not a fact. That's just an idea that you have. Edited June 13, 2022 by Will Due Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted June 13, 2022 Author #75 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Just now, Will Due said: That's not a fact. Guess just an idea that you have. How is in not a fact? In what understandable way can God be interacted with? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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