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Blackpool illuminations 'are racist'


Eldorado
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A famous part of the famous Blackpool Illuminations display which has stood for 60 years is to be removed after complaints that it is racist.

The tableau, dating back to the 1960s, is usually displayed on Blackpool's promenade and depicts six axe-wielding Native Americans wearing headdresses and gathered around a totem pole.

The town's world-famous light show dates back more than 140 years - but it came under fire last year after members of the Chickasaw Nation complained about it, saying the depiction 'reinforces racial sterotypes'.

A letter from a member of the tribe added the continued use of the tableau to date suggests the town 'supports racism' and isn't 'welcoming'.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/blackpool-illuminations-are-racist-native-american-light-display-is-axed-after-60-years/ar-AAYBQY6?

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My sister has said that for years!

"How is this still here?"

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7 hours ago, Eldorado said:

A famous part of the famous Blackpool Illuminations display which has stood for 60 years is to be removed after complaints that it is racist.

The tableau, dating back to the 1960s, is usually displayed on Blackpool's promenade and depicts six axe-wielding Native Americans wearing headdresses and gathered around a totem pole.

The town's world-famous light show dates back more than 140 years - but it came under fire last year after members of the Chickasaw Nation complained about it, saying the depiction 'reinforces racial sterotypes'.

A letter from a member of the tribe added the continued use of the tableau to date suggests the town 'supports racism' and isn't 'welcoming'.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/blackpool-illuminations-are-racist-native-american-light-display-is-axed-after-60-years/ar-AAYBQY6?

In situations like this America’s non-Native American population are unable to see these situations in the same light as the Native American population. I personally agree with the Native Americans, throughout history they have been unfairly misrepresented and have had no voice to prevent it from occurring. Who would know better than the Native Americans is something misrepresented them based upon their culture and beliefs. I think the town is acting in good faith by listening and supporting the views of Native Americans.

JIMHO

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I'm not understanding what is offensive about it. I wonder if all Native Americans were surveyed if only a minority would care about having this removed. I think some can find an interpretation that finds any representation offensive if they want to feel offended. I doubt this is the majority opinion and activists are handend too much power as nobody wants to appear insensitive and racist. I suspect I'll even get called an 'insensitive racist' now. We need a backbone to not let other people's opinions overwrite our own.

I am just calling for common sense. Take another look at the display. I'd have to do guessing to know what the big problem is.

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1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

In situations like this America’s non-Native American population are unable to see these situations in the same light as the Native American population. I personally agree with the Native Americans, throughout history they have been unfairly misrepresented and have had no voice to prevent it from occurring. Who would know better than the Native Americans is something misrepresented them based upon their culture and beliefs. I think the town is acting in good faith by listening and supporting the views of Native Americans.

JIMHO

I agree with you 100%, Manwon. The war in Ukraine has hopefully, finally, brought home to people that we are all humans, and all deserve respect. And  hopefully, in the future that respect will also extent to wild and domesticated animals,and wildernesses.Manifest Destiny and the justifiction of exploitations should be consigned to the past.

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4 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I'm not understanding what is offensive about it. I wonder if all Native Americans were surveyed if only a minority would care about having this removed. I think some can find an interpretation that finds any representation offensive if they want to feel offended. I doubt this is the majority opinion and activists are handend too much power as nobody wants to appear insensitive and racist. I suspect I'll even get called an 'insensitive racist' now. We need a backbone to not let other people's opinions overwrite our own.

I am just calling for common sense. Take another look at the display. I'd have to do guessing to know what the big problem is.

Yes. And get a backbone.

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14 minutes ago, The Silver Shroud said:

I agree with you 100%, Manwon. The war in Ukraine has hopefully, finally, brought home to people that we are all humans, and all deserve respect. And  hopefully, in the future that respect will also extent to wild and domesticated animals,and wildernesses.Manifest Destiny and the justifiction of exploitations should be consigned to the past.

Thanks, I also support you ideas concerning Animals that’s an area most of the world has neglected for too long

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@Piney

Care to weigh in?

:huh:

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1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

In situations like this America’s non-Native American population are unable to see these situations in the same light as the Native American population.

It was a tool of conquest.  Making the Indians out to be irredeemable blood-thirsty savages polished the reputation of the conquerors and avoided questions about why they slaughtered villages of farmers. @Piney 's ancestors got a first taste of that here in America, but the Irish and Scots got a taste of it too.  Seems like residential schools were perfected by stamping out Gaelic language and customs in the territory the  Anglo-Normans conquered.  Or at least they tried.

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41 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I'm not understanding what is offensive about it. I wonder if all Native Americans were surveyed if only a minority would care about having this removed.

That’s a great question actually, but it would be hard to accomplish. However, if you are truly interested you could start a thread on this forum with a poll included in it. We actually have a number of Native American Members on the forum, and since this is an international forum and the fact that the forum is a microcosm of the real world, based upon that poll I think you may get results that would at least give a close proximity to an accurate opinion.

41 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I think some can find an interpretation that finds any representation offensive if they want to feel offended.

Well I don’t believe that’s the case here, but if you start that thread with a poll you may be able to vindicate your comments above.

41 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I doubt this is the majority opinion and activists are handend too much power as nobody wants to appear insensitive and racist. I suspect I'll even get called an 'insensitive racist' now. We need a backbone to not let other people's opinions overwrite our own.

No I would not do that to you because at least you have spoken out and given us your true feelings on this subject. While I certainly don’t agree with you at all, I respect the fact that you stood up alone and voiced your opinion here. One thing I do agree with is that people do need a backbone, because the true racists that are spread out across out Nation certainly don’t have one. When you encounter them by themselves they are quite and have  nothing to say. However, as soon as you encounter that same individual in a group they become strong and forceful screening their opinions from the roof top, in my opinion that is the act of coward and a useless form of humanity!

41 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I am just calling for common sense. Take another look at the display. I'd have to do guessing to know what the big problem is.

Just because you don’t see things like others doesn’t make you a bad person or even completely wrong. To me the situation comes down to tolerance of others beliefs even if you don’t agree with them. In this case I applaud the city council for there tolerance, because I certainly believe that they did not agree with the Native American thoughts on the matter. They could have refused outright and told the Native American Council to go pack sand, however they choose to defuse the entire situation which while it may not appear to be is in the best interest of everyone concerned and in future situations it will pay dividends for the City Councils cause.

JIMHO

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14 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

It was a tool of conquest.  Making the Indians out to be irredeemable blood-thirsty savages polished the reputation of the conquerors and avoided questions about why they slaughtered villages of farmers. @Piney 's ancestors got a first taste of that here in America, but the Irish and Scots got a taste of it too.  Seems like residential schools were perfected by stamping out Gaelic language and customs in the territory the  Anglo-Normans conquered.  Or at least they tried.

Hey Tate, I think you are certainly right concerning this subject. I also think the city did the right thing by agreeing to stop the performance, in far to many cases a situation like this becomes a long drawn out court issue which only serves to inflame the situation further’.:tu:

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17 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

That’s a great question actually, but it would be hard to accomplish. However, if you are truly interested you could start a thread on this forum with a poll included in it. We actually have a number of Native American Members on the forum, and since this is an international forum and the fact that the forum is a microcosm of the real world, based upon that poll I think you may get results that would at least give a close proximity to an accurate opinion.

Well I don’t believe that’s the case here, but if you start that thread with a poll you may be able to vindicate your comments above.

No I would not do that to you because at least you have spoken out and given us your true feelings on this subject. While I certainly don’t agree with you at all, I respect the fact that you stood up alone and voiced your opinion here. One thing I do agree with is that people do need a backbone, because the true racists that are spread out across out Nation certainly don’t have one. When you encounter them by themselves they are quite and have  nothing to say. However, as soon as you encounter that same individual in a group they become strong and forceful screening their opinions from the roof top, in my opinion that is the act of coward and a useless form of humanity!

Just because you don’t see things like others doesn’t make you a bad person or even completely wrong. To me the situation comes down to tolerance of others beliefs even if you don’t agree with them. In this case I applaud the city council for there tolerance, because I certainly believe that they did not agree with the Native American thoughts on the matter. They could have refused outright and told the Native American Council to go pack sand, however they choose to defuse the entire situation which while it may not appear to be is in the best interest of everyone concerned and in future situations it will pay dividends for the City Councils cause.

JIMHO

My general point is that I’m all in for racial respect and kindness. My point is that there are those that want to be overly sensitive and they come across to me as whiners looking for ways to claim offense: Those types don’t help the overall situation.

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7 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

My general point is that I’m all in for racial respect and kindness. My point is that there are those that want to be overly sensitive and they come across to me as whiners looking for ways to claim offense: Those types don’t help the overall situation.

Well I understand your point of view, but the only way to figure out how the majority of opinions on the subject is to start a very simple thread with a poll. Then you may find the answers to question you have, in my opinion this isn’t about pointing fingers and calling people names that certainly doesn’t help this overall situation at all.

JIMHO 

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6 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Well I understand your point of view, but the only way to figure out how the majority of opinions on the subject is to start a very simple thread with a poll. Then you may find the answers to question you have, in my opinion this isn’t about pointing fingers and calling people names that certainly doesn’t help this overall situation at all.

JIMHO 

That’s just silly. A poll like that would be impossibly meaningless on just this forum. 
 

i was expressing my opinion on how I think such a poll would go.

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1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

That’s just silly. A poll like that would be impossibly meaningless on just this forum. 
 

i was expressing my opinion on how I think such a poll would go.

Well I disagree with you on this subject. This forum is like I said a microcosm of opinions based upon not only America but also on opinions of the international community. This will give you a great set of people to survey, there is nothing silly or ridiculous about it. When pollsters pick those they would like to participate in polls they always choose a broad group of individuals with varying backgrounds. This makes polls successful if the polling questions are well thought out especially based upon options a person can choose. This why allowing people to choose more than a single answer is generally the best way to construct a poll. Below is a article that presents some great ideas for questions for a poll.

If you choose to disregard my opinion here that’s cool, it’s all up to you my friend good luck,

Best practices for writing good survey and poll questions:  https://www.surveymonkey.com/mp/writing-survey-questions/

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22 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Well I disagree with you on this subject. This forum is like I said a microcosm of opinions based upon not only America but also on opinions of the international community. This will give you a great set of people to survey, there is nothing silly or ridiculous about it. When pollsters pick those they would like to participate in polls they always choose a broad group of individuals with varying backgrounds. This makes polls successful if the polling questions are well thought out especially based upon options a person can choose. This why allowing people to choose more than a single answer is generally the best way to construct a poll. Below is a article that presents some great ideas for questions for a poll.

If you choose to disregard my opinion here that’s cool, it’s all up to you my friend good luck,

Best practices for writing good survey and poll questions:  https://www.surveymonkey.com/mp/writing-survey-questions/

Manwon, I shouldn’t have to tell you how incredibly tiny this forum is.

How many Native Americans would you estimate have read this thread? Don’t answer. I’m not conducting a poll here.

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11 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Manwon, I shouldn’t have to tell you how incredibly tiny this forum is.

How many Native Americans would you estimate have read this thread? Don’t answer. I’m not conducting a poll here.

My comments were only a suggestion, I am not telling you what to do or not to do so have a great evening!

Take care! 

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Can I put an alternative point of view - without having read any of te above first.

Isn't this just diversity promotion - ie British TV got slated for not having enough diversity viewable - now we have plenty of 'diversity'.

Wasn't this just a bit bit of native american promotion - fine if one person wants it taken down it therefore must be. But the next complaint will be "there's no celebration of diversity in your illuminations".

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On the one hand, I can see why this would be viewed as problematic, and they're entitled to that viewpoint. But on the other hand, I can't imagine there's very many Amerindians in the UK, and those don't seem to be the ones complaining about it. Should they have a say in how someone on the other side of the world does a light display when they have nothing to do with the nation it's happening in? While I get the tribe's view, I can't imagine this would go over very well with the locals wondering why someone from the other side of the world who's never set foot on english soil should be allowed to influence their displays. 

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4 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

My general point is that I’m all in for racial respect and kindness. My point is that there are those that want to be overly sensitive and they come across to me as whiners looking for ways to claim offense: Those types don’t help the overall situation.

Pour the insults in a little at a time into the vessel of the soul.  Do it for a long time and the next drop added overflows the vessel.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Autochthon1990 said:

On the one hand, I can see why this would be viewed as problematic, and they're entitled to that viewpoint. But on the other hand, I can't imagine there's very many Amerindians in the UK, and those don't seem to be the ones complaining about it. Should they have a say in how someone on the other side of the world does a light display when they have nothing to do with the nation it's happening in? While I get the tribe's view, I can't imagine this would go over very well with the locals wondering why someone from the other side of the world who's never set foot on english soil should be allowed to influence their displays. 

“The Puritans hated bear-baiting, not because it gave pain to the bear, but because it gave pleasure to the spectators.”


― Thomas Macaulay

Edited by The Silver Shroud
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28 minutes ago, The Silver Shroud said:

“The Puritans hated bear-baiting, not because it gave pain to the bear, but because it gave pleasure to the spectators.”


― Thomas Macaulay

Look I'm not saying it's okay, I'm just saying I don't think the locals are gonna like a group they've never heard of telling them how to do their light display, when they don't even have a presence in england. 

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7 hours ago, acute said:

@Piney

Care to weigh in?

:huh:

Stereotypes are the least of our problems, but it is pretty offensive in a corny way. People understand it's a fictional image though.

Our culture and origins being misrepresented in alternative history and religious scenarios is worse. People know that this image is a fallacy. They actually fall for the belief we are lost Jewish tribe or the "Red Race" from Atlantis or some crap that we have some special spiritual powers above mere White folks.

I use to collect antique images on a similar vein. That one's very 1920s.

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4 minutes ago, Autochthon1990 said:

Look I'm not saying it's okay, I'm just saying I don't think the locals are gonna like a group they've never heard of telling them how to do their light display, when they don't even have a presence in england. 

Ahem....

I spent a lot if time with friends and family in the UK. But I was never treated like a piece of **** there, where at the same time I put up with some vicious crap in the States. They probably would be more understanding than Americans.

 

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22 minutes ago, Piney said:

Ahem....

I spent a lot if time with friends and family in the UK. But I was never treated like a piece of **** there, where at the same time I put up with some vicious crap in the States. They probably would be more understanding than Americans.

 

Oh you're an Amerindian? I'll defer to your experience, then. 

 

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