Proof of God (Gnosticism = Knowledge is Power)

[Rlyeh]

4 hours ago, oslove said:

(1) The existence of God explains everything.

(2) The non-existence of God explains nothing.

(3) Therefore: God exists.

The god of gaps is not an actual explanation.

[jmccr8]

29 minutes ago, oslove said:

Dear everyone here, say something on my submissions, instead of lamentation on your fate all the time, that is not any input to the advancement of dialogue at all.

Hi Oslove

Lamenting?

[newbloodmoon]

After glancing through the thread I’m still waiting to see the proof of god. At this point I don’t care if it’s the abrahamic god, Vedic, greco/roman, celtic, norse, Mesopotamian gods etc. 

As a species our understanding of the world and universe has expanded far beyond the primitive mythologies created by bronze aged and earlier primitive humans who created gods to explain what is going on in the world. If a God or Gods do exist then we wouldn’t have to take them on belief but He/She/Them could prove that they exist without the threat of eternal damnation and punishment for the finite crime of non belief. 
 

Such an omnipotent and omniscient being would be an epic immoral monster for expecting us to worship them in this way. So lets see some proof that doesn’t involve the god of the gaps or whatever else apologists keep regurgitating that has been debunked if not by days, weeks, months, or even years but by centuries.

[Will Due]

39 minutes ago, newbloodmoon said:

After glancing through the thread I’m still waiting to see the proof of god. At this point I don’t care if it’s the abrahamic god, Vedic, greco/roman, celtic, norse, Mesopotamian gods etc. 

As a species our understanding of the world and universe has expanded far beyond the primitive mythologies created by bronze aged and earlier primitive humans who created gods to explain what is going on in the world. If a God or Gods do exist then we wouldn’t have to take them on belief but He/She/Them could prove that they exist without the threat of eternal damnation and punishment for the finite crime of non belief. 
 

Such an omnipotent and omniscient being would be an epic immoral monster for expecting us to worship them in this way. So lets see some proof that doesn’t involve the god of the gaps or whatever else apologists keep regurgitating that has been debunked if not by days, weeks, months, or even years but by centuries.

 

At this point the best you can have isn't proof. But it is faith.

Faith in the highest ideal a person can think of, that God would be, in accordance with the fullness of your capacity to spiritually grasp the qualities of divine truth, beauty, and goodness.

 

 

[newbloodmoon]

17 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

At this point the best you can have isn't proof. But it is faith.

Faith in the highest ideal a person can think of, that God would be, in accordance with the fullness of your capacity to spiritually grasp the qualities of divine truth, beauty, and goodness.

 

 

Which god do I need to have faith in? The god of the bible who slaughters people on a whim or tells his ‘chosen’ people to come in to another’s land and kill every man, woman, and child except those they can take as sex slaves? That’s a big and bloody no thank you. How bout the greco/roman gods, there are numerous stories of mortals being raped by the gods and then the people or their children are punished by the gods. Heracles and Medusa come readily to mind. I’m sure you cand other grotesque stories about other ‘gods’ and yet you claim that faith is the highest ideal our species can think of?

Finding cures for diseases that God lets run rampant because they have a plan, how about innovating ways to make sustainable energy so we don’t have to rely solely on fossil fuels that pollutes the air we breath, food we eat, and water we drink. How about teaching people that they don’t have to have 20 kids or so like the Duggers so we don’t pollute or eat the world away? But nooooooo! The god of the bible wants people pumping out babies so they have impressional little minds to cram religiosity down their throats so in turn do it to their litter of kids.

So I say no to faith being the highest ideal we can have, I find that to be disgusting and ingenious. God is not beautiful, he’s a tyrant who deserves scorn and to be spat upon if he exists. If anyone wants to have faith in such a monster than in many countries you have the right to do so, others you have the right to die for that belief. Lets hope that those who comment here in the forum live in the former not the later because not even I believe people should die because of their beliefs.

Edited June 30, 2022 by newbloodmoon

[+Hammerclaw]

22 minutes ago, newbloodmoon said:

Which god do I need to have faith in? The god of the bible who slaughters people on a whim or tells his ‘chosen’ people to come in to another’s land and kill every man, woman, and child except those they can take as sex slaves? That’s a big and bloody no thank you. How bout the greco/roman gods, there are numerous stories of mortals being raped by the gods and then the people or their children are punished by the gods. Heracles and Medusa come readily to mind. I’m sure you cand other grotesque stories about other ‘gods’ and yet you claim that faith is the highest ideal our species can think of?

Finding cures for diseases that God lets run rampant because they have a plan, how about innovating ways to make sustainable energy so we don’t have to rely solely on fossil fuels that pollutes the air we breath, food we eat, and water we drink. How about teaching people that they don’t have to have 20 kids or so like the Duggers so we don’t pollute or eat the world away? But nooooooo! The god of the bible wants people pumping out babies so they have impressional little minds to cram religiosity down their throats so in turn do it to their litter of kids.

So I say no to faith being the highest ideal we can have, I find that to be disgusting and ingenious. God is not beautiful, he’s a tyrant who deserves scorn and to be spat upon if he exists. If anyone wants to have faith in such a monster than in many countries you have the right to do so, others you have the right to die for that belief. Lets hope that those who comment here in the forum live in the former not the later because not even I believe people should die because of their beliefs.

[Will Due]

42 minutes ago, newbloodmoon said:

So I say no to faith being the highest ideal we can have

 

Thank God for your free will then.

 

 

[cormac mac airt]

2 hours ago, Will Due said:

At this point the best you can have isn't proof. But it is faith.

Faith in the highest ideal a person can think of, that God would be, in accordance with the fullness of your capacity to spiritually grasp the qualities of divine truth, beauty, and goodness.

No, it’s really not. Actually The Golden Rule is a much higher, and better, ideal. Unfortunately even it gets abused by the so-called faithful. 
 

cormac

[Will Due]

8 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

The Golden Rule is a much higher, and better, ideal. 

 

Thank God then for your free will that allows you to decide what is the highest ideal and in addition, whether or not you'll live your life in accordance to it instead of being in your case, a hypocrite.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Will Due

[Phantom309]

2 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

Faith in the highest ideal a person can think of, that God would be, in accordance with the fullness of your capacity to spiritually grasp the qualities of divine truth, beauty, and goodness.

Here's where that line of thinking completely bombs out........applying a little reason to it all:

[cormac mac airt]

7 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Thank God then for your free will that allows you to decide what is the highest ideal and in addition, whether or not you'll live your life in accordance to it instead of being in your case, a hypocrite.

My free will wasn’t given to me by an imaginary sky-daddy. You’re the real hypocrite here as you talk out of one side of your face about faith, NOT PROOF, being the best one can have about God while speaking out the other side of your face in order to tell others how God IS relevant to their lives. Your hypocrisy much like your overinflated ego is well established. 
 

cormac

[Will Due]

17 minutes ago, Phantom309 said:

Here's where that line of thinking completely bombs out........applying a little reason to it all:

 

Then thank God for your free will so that you can dismiss out of hand such a ridiculous statement and get on with the business of deciding for yourself what the highest ideal about what God would be you can reason and think of to have faith in.

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Will Due

[Will Due]

2 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

NOT PROOF

 

When are you going to stop being a fool?

 

 

[cormac mac airt]

8 minutes ago, Will Due said:

When are you going to stop being a fool?

Your words: 

Quote

At this point the best you can have isn't proof. But it is faith.

When are you going to stop being a liar and hypocrite? 
 

cormac

[Will Due]

18 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Your words: 

When are you going to stop being a liar and hypocrite? 
 

cormac

 

Lol. Then tell me oh arrogant one. What is the best you can have if you can't have proof. 

Only fools like you believe you need proof in order to have faith.

Only fools like you keep stomping up and down in their old age like an infantile kid who keeps telling their daddy,

I want proof

I want

I want

I want

I want......

 

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Will Due

[cormac mac airt]

4 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Lol. Then tell me oh arrogant one. What is the best you can have if you can't have proof. 

Only fools like you believe you need proof in order to have faith.

That’s just it, I don’t need proof to have faith as I have neither faith nor belief in your God. It’s entirely meaningless to my life. As opposed to you I’m not clinging to the teat of organized religion like an infant to its mother because you’re too afraid to think for yourself. It must be debilitating to be as scared as you are. Your need to try to pin your belief on others makes me feel sorry for you. 
 

cormac

[Will Due]

11 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

I don’t need proof 

 

Playing the part of a fool again I see. You go on and on and on about how you need PROOF.

I guess besides being arrogant and a hypocrite, you're also just another bald face liar. See how that works.

Congratulations 

 

 

[Will Due]

17 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

That’s just it, I don’t need proof to have faith as I have neither faith nor belief in your God. 

 

That "your god" thing. That's got to be one of the lamest dumbest stupidest things people like you say all the time.

I bet you're one of those that got picked on a lot when you were a kid. 

Now grow up!

 

 

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, Phantom309 said:

Here's where that line of thinking completely bombs out........applying a little reason to it all:

The T fell off.

[cormac mac airt]

11 minutes ago, Will Due said:

That "your god" thing. That's got to be one of the lamest dumbest stupidest things people like you say all the time.

I bet you're one of those that got picked on a lot when you were a kid. 

Now grow up!

Still suckling I see. Practice what you preach. You’ll grow up one of these days….maybe. 
 

cormac

[cormac mac airt]

19 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Playing the part of a fool again I see. You go on and on and on about how you need PROOF.

I guess besides being arrogant and a hypocrite, you're also just another bald face liar. See how that works.

It’s not my God, it’s yours, which means it’s YOUR job to prove its relevancy to my life. I don’t require your fantasy in my life. 
 

cormac

[+Hammerclaw]

Play Purty, children. Fighting over God is neither intelligent nor is it particularly spiritual. Just be hilariously droll about it, instead! 

[oslove]

19 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Guess I'm just growning disappointed lately. Nothing strikes my curiosity any longer. 

 

I feel sorrow for you, because you don't know that curiosity is the mother of invention, and that is why you have not shown any inventive-ness.

 

There is the anecdote that Newton was curious why an apple falls from its tree, that drove him to invent the laws of motion.

[+Hammerclaw]

I'm what you could call a believer, at least, I believe in a directed universe. I'm not a particularly biblical believer; I don't go to church because I can't, in all honesty, claim I believe like that anymore. I believe because of a woman I loved. Now, she didn't believe in God, but she believed I did. She believed in me, God bless her, the only woman I ever tried to love that ever did. She died a long time ago, but her memory is ever present in my mind. I remember the empty words peopled said by way of consolation, remembering how I would say the same things in those awkward moments when greeting the bereaved. After hearing them echo, hollowly, in my own ears, I vowed never again to utter them myself. I do believe there is something beyond life's horizon, not for religious, or intellectual reasons, but simply because I choose to, if only to spit in the eye of death and because-most important of all-I just want to see her again. She was so cool!

Edited June 30, 2022 by Hammerclaw

[cormac mac airt]

14 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I'm what you could call a believer, at least, I believe in a directed universe. I'm not a particularly biblical believer; I don't go to church because I can't, in all honesty, claim I believe like that anymore. I believe because of a woman I loved. Now, she didn't believe in God, but she believed I did. She believed in me, God bless her, the only woman I ever tried to love that ever did. She died a long time ago, but her memory is ever present in my mind. I remember the empty words peopled said by way of consolation, remembering how I would say the say things in those awkward moments when greeting the bereaved. After hearing them echo, hollowly, in my own ears, I vowed never again to utter them myself. I do believe there is something beyond life's horizon, not for religious, or intellectual reasons, but simply because I choose to, if only to spit in the eye of death and because-most important of all-I just want to see her again. She was so cool!

Thanks for that Hammer. I had a similar experience with a long deceased girlfriend but beyond close family or friends could never allow myself to put it out there for public consumption. Somehow it’s always felt wrong to do so. If that’s a flaw I’m glad you got past it. 
 

cormac