Proof of God (Gnosticism = Knowledge is Power)

[+Hammerclaw]

52 minutes ago, oslove said:

 

There is really no need for constructs, when all humans have access to reality.

Start on the reality of God's existence, by noticing the concrete reality of yours and mine reality, namely, we exist - and we all humans will conclude that our transient existence implicates the existence of God, the permanent self-existent creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

The reality is we are animals, like all other animals and the product of natural evolutionary mechanisms like all other animals. Our DNA is almost indistinguishable from that of chimpanzees and Bonobos. The evolutionary process began almost as soon as Earth's surface was cool enough to allow liquid water. 

[+joc]

1 hour ago, oslove said:

Start on the reality of God's existence

There is no reality of God's existence.  There is no 'the reality' of God's existence.  You believe what you were told to believe.  You get what you get.  What you get is a fantasy you believe is true.  Propagated by men who are very long ago dead who know one knows ...but you believe what they say about something/someone you have never seen, never heard...only witnessed in the Dopamanic crevices of your brain. 

Start with the reality that there is no God.  ...go from there.

[Golden Duck]

On 6/30/2022 at 10:14 PM, newbloodmoon said:

After glancing through the thread I’m still waiting to see the proof of god. At this point I don’t care if it’s the abrahamic god, Vedic, greco/roman, celtic, norse, Mesopotamian gods etc. 

I'm searching for how

11×77 = 777

[oslove]

5 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Osbald

If you claim one god is more real than the other god then one should be able to demonstrate the differences between them. At this time all we have to work with are constructs as no god has shown up yet to announce itself to us globally in person.

 

I don't say that one god is more real than the other god.

 

You see, when man first arrived at conscious intelligent life, he noticed that some higher power must be in charge, for the sun rises in the morning, the moon appears in the sky at night.

So he concluded that there are powerful entities in charge of the sun and the moon and etc.

That was the phase of multiple deities.

Then humans became more and more attentive to recurring events in daily life.

To make a long story very concise, man finally arrived at the finding that there is only one God in charge of everything that is not God Himself, otherwise things would be in a chaotic condition.

Thus, in the first line of the Jewish bible, there is this text:

"In the beginning God made heaven and earth."

 

Now, there are billions and billions of humans who know God exists, and they all essentially accept this definition of God:

"God is the permanent self-existent creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient."

 

You say, " . . . no god has shown up yet to announce itself to us globally in person."

That is because He is everywhere, even inside you as also in the meager 4% scientists know of the universe, but in particular in the whole unknown to man 96% of the universe - and God created them all and operates them all, otherwise we would be in a chaotic condition.

[jmccr8]

6 minutes ago, oslove said:

I don't say that one god is more real than the other god.

Hi Oslove

No you didn't my response was to Will so that is the context of my discussion with him.

13 minutes ago, oslove said:

You see, when man first arrived at conscious intelligent life, he noticed that some higher power must be in charge, for the sun rises in the morning, the moon appears in the sky at night.

So he concluded that there are powerful entities in charge of the sun and the moon and etc.

That was the phase of multiple deities.

Then humans became more and more attentive to recurring events in daily life.

To make a long story very concise, man finally arrived at the finding that there is only one God in charge of everything that is not God Himself, otherwise things would be in a chaotic condition.

Thus, in the first line of the Jewish bible, there is this text:

"In the beginning God made heaven and earth."

And man has continued to grow in knowledge about the world around him and use it to their advantage, religious doctrine does not explain what or why we now know what we do. If you personally need the support you find in believing in a god or a religion that is find and is about you not me or many of the members you try to engage. If you could accept that we are not going to change what we each believe in and decide to discuss why you have your belief, or what brought you to it and what positive changes it made in your life fine. Don't expect to convert anyone the best you should hope for is that we can discuss things civilly and intellectively and given how you have engaged members to date does not suggest that type of intellectual or emotional flexibility to understand the scope of what being in the world means.

25 minutes ago, oslove said:

Now, there are billions and billions of humans who know God exists,

Slight correction, they claim they know god and not all of them agree with what god is telling everyone else otherwise they would share an identical perspective of what god is. people have been raised and condition to be religiously lead through live and that is no big deal if they work for the betterment of all men no matter what the beliefs of others are. If they are zealots or work against their fellow man then I have no tolerance for them.

[Will Due]

1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

they claim they know god and not all of them agree with what god is 

 

Yes we do. 

Those who know God all agree and share an identical perspective that God is God and there is no other God beside Him.

 

 

[XenoFish]

God is an idea.

[jmccr8]

1 hour ago, Will Due said:

 

Yes we do. 

Those who know God all agree and share an identical perspective that God is God and there is no other God beside Him.

 

 

Hi Will

Why is it Hammer doesn't seem to agree with your concept of god just to mention one. Then there is Oslove who thinks god is the operator of man, something that you have not supported. The only point you can agree on is you believe that there is a god and that god is not represented on everyone's mind in the same way and that is just within the confines of Christian based constructs. Add to that the other religions that have gods existing within multiple sects of a religion that do not agree with you or their like faith based, there is no continuity of belief in god with billions of believers. I think most do not put as much faith in their god as you seem to believe and use the social aspects of the teachings as a guide in life.

[ThereWeAreThen]

46 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

God is an idea.

Its incredible a death cult worships an idea. Even in modern times.

[XenoFish]

14 minutes ago, ThereWeAreThen said:

Its incredible a death cult worships an idea. Even in modern times.

Not just religions that worship ideas. 

[ThereWeAreThen]

11 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Not just religions that worship ideas. 

Agreed.

[Alchopwn]

On 6/21/2022 at 8:11 AM, InvestigativeThinker said:

Unlike Atheism, Gnosticism actually explains metaphysics - something we can physically observe.

This is a bad start.  If you understood metaphysics, you would understand why as a branch of philosophy it can never deal with observables and was never meant to do so.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Alchopwn

[oslove]

For myself, God is the reality of realities, and He keeps everything in order, otherwise it will be chaos for mankind.

What about you guys here, do you know who keeps order in the all embracing category of existence?

 

First we exist, and that comes from God, not from not from nothingness, no matter you invest billions and billions of years . . . waiting for nothingness to turn into something-ness.

 

I enjoy reading how you guys explain everything, but you never get to the fact that existence is identical to God - so you never get the whole complete picture correct.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, oslove said:

For myself, God is the reality of realities, and He keeps everything in order, otherwise it will be chaos for mankind.

What about you guys here, do you know who keeps order in the all embracing category of existence?

 

First we exist, and that comes from God, not from not from nothingness, no matter you invest billions and billions of years . . . waiting for nothingness to turn into something-ness.

 

I enjoy reading how you guys explain everything, but you never get to the fact that existence is identical to God - so you never get the whole complete picture correct.

We didn't have to wait--we weren't here, yet. For all intents and purposes, your god seems to have created a perfectly natural universe, without signature signs of his authorship. Apparently, he wants to be taken on faith, if he even exists. Science is based on empirical observation, accepting only that which is detectable by our senses or instruments, or deduced mathematically. Your god is indetectable by any methodology known to man. 

Many scientists are also men of Faith and know not to mix the two. People like you are adherents to what is called The Doctrine of Ignorance, eschewing all knowledge and turning their Faith into nothing more than blind superstition. Some day you may be preaching your doctrine from a pulpit to like-minded fools; a blind guide leading the blind, but you'll find no followers here. Your god seems to have given us eyes and we see right through you.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Hammerclaw

[Abramelin]

7 hours ago, Will Due said:

Those who know God all agree and share an identical perspective that God is God and there is no other God beside Him.

And He is a jealous god. If there are no other gods, then what is there to be jealous about?

[lightly]

5 hours ago, XenoFish said:

God is an idea.

    More than one idea though?   Billions of differing ideas I reckon?   It is said there is no evidence that any god exists… That idea is debated endlessly ..while we all know for a fact that there is no evidence that any god does not exist?     Just a thought 

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, lightly said:

    More than one idea though?   Billions of differing ideas I reckon?   It is said there is no evidence that any god exists… That idea is debated endlessly ..while we all know for a fact that there is no evidence that any god does not exist?     Just a thought 

People and cultures indeed have their own twist on the concept.

[lightly]

I’m not going bible thumper on y’all   ….I just saw a sign in a yard yesterday on our bike ride.. [Ephesians 5:10 ..chew on it]
     So I just googled it ..and ,for this topic, thought it was interesting.  peace.

     ⁷Be not ye therefore partakers with them. ⁸For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: ⁹(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) ¹⁰Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. ¹¹And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. ¹²For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. ¹³But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

[XenoFish]

37 minutes ago, lightly said:

I’m not going bible thumper on y’all   ….I just saw a sign in a yard yesterday on our bike ride.. [Ephesians 5:10 ..chew on it]
     So I just googled it ..and ,for this topic, thought it was interesting.  peace.

     ⁷Be not ye therefore partakers with them. ⁸For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: ⁹(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) ¹⁰Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. ¹¹And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. ¹²For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. ¹³But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

https://www.bibleref.com/Ephesians/5/Ephesians-5-10.html

Two themes are noted in this brief verse. First, a believer is to be discerning. Paul notes elsewhere the connection between discernment and pleasing God, in Romans 12:2: "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God." Discernment is also important when taking communion (1 Corinthians 11:29). Prayer involves discernment (Philippians 1:9). Scripture also discerns the thoughts and intentions of people (Hebrews 4:12).

Second, a believer is to please the Lord. Believers are to not live as reckless "people-pleasers" (Ephesians 6:6) even when servants of a master, though we are to serve well. Unbelievers cannot please God (Romans 8:8). We are to live to uplift and serve others (Romans 15:2; Hebrews 11:6). Husbands and wives must consider how to please both one another and the Lord (1 Corinthians 7:32–34). However, the believer's ultimate aim is to please God, not people (1 Thessalonians 2:4; 4:1).

[Abramelin]

7 hours ago, oslove said:

What about you guys here, do you know who keeps order in the all embracing category of existence?

What you consider to be 'order' is in fact chaos. Stars explode, planets get destroyed, black holes swallow up stars, comets crash into planets (like our own), no doubt ancient civilization got fried when their sun expanded or blew up, and so on.

Creation resembles a kind of slow pinball machine.

[lightly]

Thanks X !     I got my bible study assignment done.   read all those verses.   ..am still  discerning  the messages.       I feel like I just got out of Sunday School !*        

[lightly]

8 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

What you consider to be 'order' is in fact chaos. Stars explode, planets get destroyed, black holes swallow up stars, comets crash into planets (like our own), no doubt ancient civilization got fried when their sun expanded or blew up, and so on.

Creation resembles a kind of slow pinball machine.

Creation and destruction are two halves of the whole? ..there can’t be one without the other?    It’s a balanced chaos?  

[Abramelin]

Just now, lightly said:

Creation and destruction are two halves of the whole? ..there can’t be one without the other?    It’s a balanced chaos?  

Yeah, something like that. Well, except the 'balanced' part.

[XenoFish]

6 minutes ago, lightly said:

Creation and destruction are two halves of the whole? ..there can’t be one without the other?    It’s a balanced chaos?  

They're the same. In order to create you need to destroy. Transforming one thing into another. 

[Abramelin]

4 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Yeah, something like that. Well, except the 'balanced' part.

I love science. But science doesn't know everything. That's impossible. The scientist have to adjust their theories after every new discovery it seems. And that's what I like about science: explore and learn.

Betelgeuse is a giant red star about to go supernova. It looks very unstable, and scientists have predicted it will blow up soon.

But it just doesn't.

Maybe our sun will blow up next year, and scientists - if they still have the nerve - will try to find out how that is possible.