Proof of God (Gnosticism = Knowledge is Power)

[jmccr8]

3 minutes ago, oslove said:

what then are you?

Hi Oslove

Me, a man that thinks that our ability to think is what god describes, our ability to understand, create and change not just ourselves as well as to manipulate our environment to serve our needs.

7 minutes ago, oslove said:

No. 2 question is what do you mean by evidence?

Anything that I can touch, feel, smell or hear that bears the same results no matter who or how many times it is tested

[oslove]

jmccr8

Posted 2 hours ago

   #726 

  2 hours ago, oslove said:

what then are you?

Hi Oslove

Me, a man that thinks that our ability to think is what god describes, our ability to understand, create and change not just ourselves as well as to manipulate our environment to serve our needs.

  2 hours ago, oslove said:

No. 2 question is what do you mean by evidence?

Anything that I can touch, feel, smell or hear that bears the same results no matter who or how many times it is tested

----------------

So, you are a man that thinks that our ability to think is what god describes, our ability to understand, create and change not just ourselves as well as to manipulate our environment to serve our needs.

I like that, now what do you think God is?

 

About evidence, give an example of evidence.

[jmccr8]

6 hours ago, oslove said:

like that, now what do you think God is?

Hi Oslove

To me that is what god is, our ability to think and create it's not an entity it is a verb that describes what we are capable of

[oslove]

2 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Oslove

To me that is what god is, our ability to think and create it's not an entity it is a verb that describes what we are capable of

 

That is not what people understand by the word god.

You are miscommunicating with your peculiar meaning of the word god, unless you put within ( ) what is your peculiar meaning with your use of the word god: but then they will wonder what is your point with giving your own meaning to the word god, and they go to dictionaries, but they don't find your meaning of god in any dictionaries.

Suppose you just say you dont' accept god exists, period: isn,t that what you mean to tell readers - why go into such a weird way of telling readers that you don't believe god exists.

 

[rashore]

1 hour ago, oslove said:

 

That is not what people understand by the word god.

You are miscommunicating with your peculiar meaning of the word god, unless you put within ( ) what is your peculiar meaning with your use of the word god: but then they will wonder what is your point with giving your own meaning to the word god, and they go to dictionaries, but they don't find your meaning of god in any dictionaries.

Suppose you just say you dont' accept god exists, period: isn,t that what you mean to tell readers - why go into such a weird way of telling readers that you don't believe god exists.

 

Don't tell other people they are wrong or miscommunicated about their own meaning for god. Do not tell people how to post what they think about god. And for sure don't tell people they don't believe god exists when they didn't say that. That sort of thing starts to smack of religious bigotry and preaching. If you can't manage a discussion without engaging in this kind of behavior, then walk away from the conversation. 

[oslove]

8 hours ago, rashore said:

Don't tell other people they are wrong or miscommunicated about their own meaning for god. Do not tell people how to post what they think about god. And for sure don't tell people they don't believe god exists when they didn't say that. That sort of thing starts to smack of religious bigotry and preaching. If you can't manage a discussion without engaging in this kind of behavior, then walk away from the conversation. 

 

1. Don't tell other people they are wrong or miscommunicated about their own meaning for god.

2. Do not tell people how to post what they think about god.

3. And for sure don't tell people they don't believe god exists when they didn't say that.

4. That sort of thing starts to smack of religious bigotry and preaching.

5. If you can't manage a discussion without engaging in this kind of behavior, then walk away from the conversation. 

--------------

Hi Rashmore, do you notice that the things five items above are also what members interacting with me are doing in the opposite direction?

So, what do members in UM do in a thread, just read and go away?

[rashore]

3 hours ago, oslove said:

 

1. Don't tell other people they are wrong or miscommunicated about their own meaning for god.

2. Do not tell people how to post what they think about god.

3. And for sure don't tell people they don't believe god exists when they didn't say that.

4. That sort of thing starts to smack of religious bigotry and preaching.

5. If you can't manage a discussion without engaging in this kind of behavior, then walk away from the conversation. 

--------------

Hi Rashmore, do you notice that the things five items above are also what members interacting with me are doing in the opposite direction?

So, what do members in UM do in a thread, just read and go away?

No members are telling you you are wrong about your personal meaning for god, members aren't telling you how to phrase yourself about your god, members are for sure not telling you that you don't believe in god when you are saying otherwise. Members aren't calling you out for being a theist the way you are calling everyone that does not believe as you do an atheist. These are bad behaviors I'm telling you to stop with.

No, I do not discuss members with each other. So don't matter what I notice or are moderating of other members, I will not discuss it with you. If you have a problem with members behaviors and they are rule breaking, use the report button and report the post in question for moderators to deal with. 

And yes, members do read a thread and just go away sometimes. Sometimes it's suggested they do so if they cannot engage in discussion without breaking the site rules. It's part of being a member on a moderated forum. You willingly agreed to abide to the site rules, and willingly agreed for your content to be moderated and to comply with moderators decisions. Please comply with this moderation now. This is no longer open for discussion or debate, so no one needs to quote this to reply. 

[oslove]

2 hours ago, rashore said:

No members are telling you you are wrong about your personal meaning for god, members aren't telling you how to phrase yourself about your god, members are for sure not telling you that you don't believe in god when you are saying otherwise. Members aren't calling you out for being a theist the way you are calling everyone that does not believe as you do an atheist. These are bad behaviors I'm telling you to stop with.

No, I do not discuss members with each other. So don't matter what I notice or are moderating of other members, I will not discuss it with you. If you have a problem with members behaviors and they are rule breaking, use the report button and report the post in question for moderators to deal with. 

And yes, members do read a thread and just go away sometimes. Sometimes it's suggested they do so if they cannot engage in discussion without breaking the site rules. It's part of being a member on a moderated forum. You willingly agreed to abide to the site rules, and willingly agreed for your content to be moderated and to comply with moderators decisions. Please comply with this moderation now. This is no longer open for discussion or debate, so no one needs to quote this to reply. 

 

Thanks a lot, Rashore, for your patience with me.

Give my regards to Saru.

[oslove]

On 8/4/2022 at 3:56 PM, Djedi said:

The all powerful God of Abrahamic religion is the result of an evolution that took centuries, originally there wasn't an all powerful God and evidence of this can be found in the OT. 

1) Originally there was the god El at the head of a pantheon, no Yahweh included

2) Yahweh (a god from the south) is introduced as a god in this pantheon as one of the many children of El.

3) El and Yahweh merge into one god (emphasis on Yahweh, El becomes a title)  Asherah the consort of El thus becomes the consort of Yahweh

4) Only Yahweh is to be worshipped, the other gods still exist but are not worthy of worship (henotheism / monolatry), the cult of Asherah was probably the last to be abolished.

5) Yahweh is the only god and is all powerful, existence of other gods is denied (monotheism), "God" is born.

Bible scholars have identified texts in the OT referring to each one of the 5 phases mentioned above (partially also supported by archaeological research).

Trying to prove the existence of (the Abrahamic) God imho is meaningless, since it can be shown how people made him up and "fine tuned" him through the course of time. Christianity just made more stuff up, not accepted by Judaism thus creating a "new" religion.

 

I am not into the history of man's encounters with god(s).

 

I am into what today with my intelligence and rational faculty and reasoning process, I have come to the reality i.e. existence of God, not only as an idea, but truly as objectively present in the world which He created.

God is everywhere and all the time: with us and in us, so that without God there is only nothingness: no you and me and no all members of UM, also no UM.

God exists and He created everything, that is why we are existing in reality, not only as ideas in God's mind.

God and existence of God are identical, God is existence and existence is God.

Everything in existence, like you and me, is created by God.

How does God create us? By sharing His existence with us.

Why does God create us? Because He loves to create, He enjoys creating. He is an artist - an artist's essential instinct is to create, otherwise He is not realizing His nature.

[cormac mac airt]

25 minutes ago, oslove said:

 

I am not into the history of man's encounters with god(s).

 

I am into what today with my intelligence and rational faculty and reasoning process, I have come to the reality i.e. existence of God, not only as an idea, but truly as objectively present in the world which He created.

God is everywhere and all the time: with us and in us, so that without God there is only nothingness: no you and me and no all members of UM, also no UM.

God exists and He created everything, that is why we are existing in reality, not only as ideas in God's mind.

God and existence of God are identical, God is existence and existence is God.

Everything in existence, like you and me, is created by God.

How does God create us? By sharing His existence with us.

Why does God create us? Because He loves to create, He enjoys creating. He is an artist - an artist's essential instinct is to create, otherwise He is not realizing His nature.

That might be what you believe and you’re welcome to it but that’s not what many, possibly most, of us believe and there is NOTHING OBJECTIVE about your belief, meaning that there is no way to verifiably “prove” your God exists over any other belief or non-belief. If there was someone would have done so long ago by having God appear worldwide to the 7+ billion of us living on this planet to settle the matter once and for all. IT’S.NEVER.HAPPENED and not likely to ever happen. 
 

cormac

Edited August 7, 2022 by cormac mac airt

[XenoFish]

God is just an idea.

[Saru]

9 hours ago, oslove said:

Everything in existence, like you and me, is created by God.

So who created God ?

[XenoFish]

15 minutes ago, Saru said:

So who created God ?

The start of an infinite series of questions. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by XenoFish

[Abramelin]

52 minutes ago, Saru said:

So who created God ?

Another, more superior god?

And who created thàt god?

And so we can go on ad nauseum.

Humans created god in their image.

[Saru]

8 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Another, more superior god?

And who created thàt god?

And so we can go on ad nauseum.

Precisely.

It's a question designed to illustrate the futility of trying to explain the nature of existence by way of divine intervention.

[Will Due]

30 minutes ago, Saru said:

So who created God ?

 

God is eternal, existing forever, without end or beginning.

Perhaps the most basic attribute ascribed to God throughout history is that he is eternal. It might even be the one universal thing people have thought of when they think of God as the First Source of everything. 

Even in the most primitive of times.

 

 

 

[XenoFish]

15 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Another, more superior god?

And who created thàt god?

And so we can go on ad nauseum.

Humans created god in their image.

Even the self created God falls into this trap. Something had to be there in order for God to create itself. If God created itself then it has a beginning.

[Abramelin]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Even the self created God falls into this trap. Something had to be there in order for God to create itself. If God created itself then it has a beginning.

"I am the alpha and the omega".

Maybe 'it' is a circle: no beginning, no end.

[Abramelin]

11 hours ago, oslove said:

Why does God create us? Because He loves to create, He enjoys creating. He is an artist - an artist's essential instinct is to create, otherwise He is not realizing His nature.

You may have noticed He also loves to destroy.

[Saru]

31 minutes ago, Will Due said:

God is eternal, existing forever, without end or beginning.

If something can exist forever without end or beginning, then you could argue the same of the universe.

In which case it wasn't 'created' and therefore needs no creator.

[XenoFish]

53 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

"I am the alpha and the omega".

Maybe 'it' is a circle: no beginning, no end.

The problem still remains though. There has to be a space for this god entity to exist within, goes right back to the infinite questions. 

My take away from this spiritual philosophical merry-go-round is....

[Will Due]

34 minutes ago, Saru said:

If something can exist forever without end or beginning, then you could argue the same of the universe.

In which case it wasn't 'created' and therefore needs no creator.

 

Except that it can also be argued that the universe is made up of different parts.

One part always existing with God, timeless in eternity without ever being created.

And another part created only since the initiation of time and existing within eternity.

 

 

[Saru]

43 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Except that it can also be argued that the universe is made up of different parts.

One part always existing with God, timeless in eternity without ever being created.

And another part created only since the initiation of time and existing within eternity.

If the multiverse (let's call it) exists eternally without being created, then why does the sub-universe need a creator ?

Natural processes within a multiverse could give rise to sub-universes just as natural processes in our universe give rise to stars and planets.

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

1 hour ago, Will Due said:

God is eternal, existing forever, without end or beginning.

Do you have any evidence to back up this assertion ?

In case you don't have any evidence are you prepared to admit that you might be wrong about it ?

1 hour ago, Will Due said:

Perhaps the most basic attribute ascribed to God throughout history is that he is eternal. It might even be the one universal thing people have thought of when they think of God as the First Source of everything. 

Even in the most primitive of times.

Many beliefs from ancient times turned out to be wrong, so why should we think that just because an idea is old, it is more likely to be true ? 

 

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

13 hours ago, oslove said:

Why does God create us? Because He loves to create, He enjoys creating. He is an artist - an artist's essential instinct is to create, otherwise He is not realizing His nature.

So he created a world with things like eartquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, floods, draoght, malaria and cancer because it is his nature ? 

Why should we worship a being that apparently enjoys to make us suffer ?

Try think about why you think this makes sense.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Noteverythingisaconspiracy